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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 7:54:08 GMT -5
"Uh... I can go to Cuba from Canada but not the from the US...its very easy to do and nobody stamps or even looks at your passport.....the point is, once the kid is out of the country it really doesn't matter where they are....its still going to be a pain in the ass to get them back even if it is, just Canada. "
Really? Canada doesn't look at your passport going in or coming out? Even if you are with a child? That is very careless of them. Passports are there for a reason. I drove to Canada before. At the time I didn't have a green card, just H1 visa. I had to get a visa to visit Canada 1 months in advance, then they made us (2 others that were American citizens) get out of the car and go inside for the passport/visa check. This was pre-911. So if they are more relaxed now, it seems backwards.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 19, 2013 8:33:44 GMT -5
::You need deeper pockets than Grandmother in order to do this.::
You don't need deeper pockets, I made no suggestion that she actually go through with it, only that she need threaten it. The threat is less about the court battle, and more about making it clear that 1. You don't intend to cut grandma out of their lives. 2. If she proceeds, you do intend to cut her out.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 19, 2013 10:19:42 GMT -5
"Uh... I can go to Cuba from Canada but not the from the US...its very easy to do and nobody stamps or even looks at your passport.....the point is, once the kid is out of the country it really doesn't matter where they are....its still going to be a pain in the ass to get them back even if it is, just Canada. " Really? Canada doesn't look at your passport going in or coming out? Even if you are with a child? That is very careless of them. Passports are there for a reason. I drove to Canada before. At the time I didn't have a green card, just H1 visa. I had to get a visa to visit Canada 1 months in advance, then they made us (2 others that were American citizens) get out of the car and go inside for the passport/visa check. This was pre-911. So if they are more relaxed now, it seems backwards. Not if you can prove you are American. I have known people who left the US with just their drivers lisence, a regular one not the passport kind, and a birth cert type of thing. They didn't have anyone even ask for a passport until they tried to reenter the US. It is actually pretty easy to go to Mexico or Canada and not get your passport stamped going in. The person then gets on a plane to Cuba. Vacations in Cuba for a few days and then flies back to Mexico or Canada. When they fly back to the US they will be asked for their passport but it won't have any stamps of having been to Cuba because Cuba doens't have a problem with Americans entering their country. Kind of ironic that the only country in the western hemisphere that would have a problem with an American entering their country without a passport is America.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 19, 2013 10:24:18 GMT -5
I go to Canada a lot, and the past few years, I have had to show ID each time I entered. Ive had a passport for the past 3 years or so, so I've always shown that. I had no idea if a drivers license would work now.
ETA: if I have the kids with me, I have to snow their passports too. My friend who is a singe mon has often come with me and she must show a notarized letter from the father that she has his permission to take the kid into canada.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 10:30:32 GMT -5
You need the enhanced license if you want to use it to go into Canada. And when we took the kids a few years ago and only had their birth certificates we were told that we need to get them passports. (ETA but they did let us back in )
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 19, 2013 10:32:01 GMT -5
ETA: if I have the kids with me, I have to snow their passports too. My friend who is a singe mon has often come with me and she must show a notarized letter from the father that she has his permission to take the kid into canada. Swamp, I have a question about the mechanics of that. How do they know who is a single mom versus who is a married mom? Is it just the single moms that they're asking for a notarized letter? My husband took our boys to England last year (mercifully without me) and nobody asked him for a letter.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 19, 2013 10:34:04 GMT -5
Milee, I have no idea. Every time I have taken the kids to Canada DH is with me.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 19, 2013 10:36:07 GMT -5
I go to Canada a lot, and the past few years, I have had to show ID each time I entered. Ive had a passport for the past 3 years or so, so I've always shown that. I had no idea if a drivers license would work now. ETA: if I have the kids with me, I have to snow their passports too. My friend who is a singe mon has often come with me and she must show a notarized letter from the father that she has his permission to take the kid into canada. They needed something else to back up their regular DL. And most states like NJ can't get the enhanced DL's anyway. I think they had their birth cert but I have heard of people using their voter registration also. They just wanted proof that they were an American. They didn't want to show their passport since they were going to hop a flight to Cuba and didn't want it stamped for all to see. They didn't have any children with them though.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 19, 2013 11:20:16 GMT -5
LOL - Here is some good news. Not only is MIL saying all this weird crap, and saying it to people who aren't her trusted circle (like my friend's father, etc.) but she has put some of her crap in emails. So, my friend says she has been documenting some stuff, but a lot of it is just printing out emails. My friend said "If I have to be saddled with a crazy MIL, at least she is stupid, too." I swear this woman is the strongest, bravest person I have ever met.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 11:29:04 GMT -5
"Swamp, I have a question about the mechanics of that. How do they know who is a single mom versus who is a married mom? Is it just the single moms that they're asking for a notarized letter? My husband took our boys to England last year (mercifully without me) and nobody asked him for a letter." They dont know that They would/should ask to any parent that is travelling alone. From what I heard though, they don't always ask (ie in your husband's case). I have a notarized letter from my ex stating I can take my son to wherever I please and it states until the age of 18 so I dont have to chase him down everytime I want to leave the country. I probably don't need it since I have sole legal and physical custody but you never know. I guess I will see if they ask for any kind of paperwork to prove he is my kid when we travel this summer. My last name in my passport is different than his so I will be taking all kinds of paperwork just in case.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 19, 2013 11:43:06 GMT -5
That may be the difference. My friend has no custody papers. They've worked it out without the court and they were never married.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 19, 2013 11:53:33 GMT -5
::You need deeper pockets than Grandmother in order to do this.:: You don't need deeper pockets, I made no suggestion that she actually go through with it, only that she need threaten it. The threat is less about the court battle, and more about making it clear that 1. You don't intend to cut grandma out of their lives. 2. If she proceeds, you do intend to cut her out. If things are as Thyme states, I don't think a threat is going to be enough. I would like to be wrong, but I think it will get worse before it gets better.
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Post by Opti on Mar 19, 2013 12:04:18 GMT -5
I'm going to agree with Rukh on this mainly because this is something you don't want to be wrong on.
Yes we don't really know because we aren't there, but it sounds like grandma may do something rash in the near future. I have an older friend who lost her eldest daughter years ago and its been very tough for her. She has still not fully come to terms with it. I remember she told me that the second year is actually harder than the first, because in the first year you are just numb. It is my guess that grandma was well-behaved when she was numb and is trying to recreate a life that didn't even exist when her son was alive.
Thyme its so great you are supporting your friend. I do think years two and three are going to predict her behavior much more than the first year. Since she is getting worse I hope your friend can find a way to keep her children safe.
I'd also be curious if the uncle moved to make Mom happy or because he agreed with her reasoning on a father figure.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 19, 2013 12:06:01 GMT -5
The general consensus around here is that it is going to get worse before it gets better.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 19, 2013 12:09:25 GMT -5
I don't really know. He is a weird guy, and I don't know him that well. He has a kid that lives with his ex-wife, and I haven't heard squat about that kid. Never seems to come and visit, I don't even know if the kids have ever met that cousin. I wonder if the ex-wife has the same reservations about Grandma. That would be an indicator. [/span]
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 12:18:27 GMT -5
Swamp, I have a question about the mechanics of that.
How do they know who is a single mom versus who is a married mom? Is it just the single moms that they're asking for a notarized letter?
My husband took our boys to England last year (mercifully without me) and nobody asked him for a letter.
Milee, the US requires both parents' permission for a passport. Once the passport is issued, there is no problem with one parent taking the child out of the country. I'm guessing the UK works the same way. I think I too had to sign for DS3's British passport but frankly I can't remember. DH has taken DS3 out of the country without me or my written authorization, so I'm guessing it's the same.
When my 3 oldest kids were minors, I had to call my ex every time one of them needed a new passport. He worked a few blocks from my office. He'd meet me at the corner and sign the passport application (thank Gd).
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 19, 2013 12:20:42 GMT -5
Swamp, I have a question about the mechanics of that.
How do they know who is a single mom versus who is a married mom? Is it just the single moms that they're asking for a notarized letter?
My husband took our boys to England last year (mercifully without me) and nobody asked him for a letter.
Milee, the US requires both parents' permission for a passport. Once the passport is issued, there is no problem with one parent taking the child out of the country. I'm guessing the UK works the same way. I think I too had to sign for DS3's British passport but frankly I can't remember. DH has taken DS3 out of the country without me or my written authorization, so I'm guessing it's the same.
When my 3 oldest kids were minors, I had to call my ex every time one of them needed a new passport. He worked a few blocks from my office. He'd meet me at the corner and sign the passport application (thank Gd).
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That was my understanding as well. As long as you are a parent and have the child's passport in your hand, you can take that child out of the country. No other paperwork needed.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 19, 2013 12:22:16 GMT -5
Swamp, I have a question about the mechanics of that.
How do they know who is a single mom versus who is a married mom? Is it just the single moms that they're asking for a notarized letter?
My husband took our boys to England last year (mercifully without me) and nobody asked him for a letter.
Milee, the US requires both parents' permission for a passport. Once the passport is issued, there is no problem with one parent taking the child out of the country. I'm guessing the UK works the same way. I think I too had to sign for DS3's British passport but frankly I can't remember. DH has taken DS3 out of the country without me or my written authorization, so I'm guessing it's the same.
When my 3 oldest kids were minors, I had to call my ex every time one of them needed a new passport. He worked a few blocks from my office. He'd meet me at the corner and sign the passport application (thank Gd).
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That was my understanding as well. As long as you are a parent and have the child's passport in your hand, you can take that child out of the country. No other paperwork needed. That's why this women needs to hide or burn her kid's passports.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 19, 2013 12:26:21 GMT -5
Agree, kittensaver.
Years ago, when DH and I were having difficulty, one of the divorce lawyers I talked to said I should keep tight control of both my son and his passport, or DH would be able to take my son very easily.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 12:26:57 GMT -5
"Milee, the US requires both parents' permission for a passport. "
If you have sole legal custody (like I do), you don't need anything from the other parent. Or if the father is not on the birth certificate, I don't think you need anything from him either.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 19, 2013 12:29:52 GMT -5
"Milee, the US requires both parents' permission for a passport. " If you have sole legal custody (like I do), you don't need anything from the other parent. Or if the father is not on the birth certificate, I don't think you need anything from him either. This kind of has to be right I think. Otherwise no parent who had a one night stand, had a kid, and wanted to visit another country could ever take the kid with them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 12:31:18 GMT -5
"Otherwise no parent who had a one night stand, had a kid, and wanted to visit another country could ever take the kid with them. "
Well even if they are on the BC and nowhere to be found, you can get away without the signature if you can prove you have tried and he is nowhere to be found.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 12:34:01 GMT -5
Agreed, Bunnysmom. I had "primary" custody, not "sole" custody.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 12:36:14 GMT -5
Thyme I wish your friend the best. I don't think she should burn the passports but she should certainly hide them, and well (I don't mean in her underwear drawer). Maybe open a safe-deposit box in another city?
Hopefully the MIL will continue to "dig her own grave" sooner rather than later.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 19, 2013 13:39:11 GMT -5
To fly to Canada you need a passport. The airport I fly out of won't let you through security with an international ticket without a passport and the Canadian airline also checked my passport at the gate. Coming back to the states I needed a passport too - you go through customs at the Toronto airport first so they checked it. Now, I flew to Canada ~5 years ago, right after the law stating you needed a passport to fly to Canada/Mexico started, and while they checked my passport then they didn't stamp it (they now do)...not sure what that was about, whether it meant I didn't need it then.
It used to be easy to drive across the border, just driver's licenses for the adults - never asked for birth certificate for my bro & me when we were minors. Now you're supposed to have a passport to drive across (or that enhanced DL, whatever that is). My parents got passports before that part of the law went into effect so they've always showed a passport when driving to/back so I don't know if they could just show a DL to get into Canada.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 19, 2013 14:07:12 GMT -5
To fly to Canada you need a passport. The airport I fly out of won't let you through security with an international ticket without a passport and the Canadian airline also checked my passport at the gate. Coming back to the states I needed a passport too - you go through customs at the Toronto airport first so they checked it. Now, I flew to Canada ~5 years ago, right after the law stating you needed a passport to fly to Canada/Mexico started, and while they checked my passport then they didn't stamp it (they now do)...not sure what that was about, whether it meant I didn't need it then. It used to be easy to drive across the border, just driver's licenses for the adults - never asked for birth certificate for my bro & me when we were minors. Now you're supposed to have a passport to drive across (or that enhanced DL, whatever that is). My parents got passports before that part of the law went into effect so they've always showed a passport when driving to/back so I don't know if they could just show a DL to get into Canada. We go over the Canadian border almost weekly and if you don't have a Nexus (trusted traveler card) or an enhanced driver's licence, you must have a passport. An enhanced driver's license has an RFD chip in it that contains all of your passport information when they scan it (my new WA DL now has this feature). And you are correct, in the US you cannot even get on a plane to Canada without a passport. However, the last time I flew in and out of Canada, I got to use my Nexus card with a retinal scan on it - which was really quite cool. Doing this, I got to bypass all the long lines like we get to do when we are waiting to go through the border on land.
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amishgal
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Post by amishgal on Mar 19, 2013 14:10:04 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it, but is there a grandfather in the picture, or is MIL widowed as well? (or maybe her DH left her crazy ass) Just wondered if she was driving the crazy train solo or if she had reinforcements.
I understand wanting to keep some ties for your children, but I'd have no problem shutting that crazy bitch off.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 14:22:51 GMT -5
I would not burn the passports. I would simply put them in a safe location. I think there is a way to put a travel warning or something like that on kids' records (maybe just a freeze to issuing passports). I understand that the grandma wants to see her grandkids and maybe take them her her home country to show them their heritage, which would be a totally normal request except what makes this crazy is the "new dad", threatening to tie this up in court forever, calling her not mom. My guess is she can try to sue for custody/more visitation a few times but there will come a point where courts will turn on her, especially if she acts as unreasonable as she is now and because the mother is not unfit.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Mar 19, 2013 14:27:42 GMT -5
I have sole custody of my son. I had to get "permission" to get a passport, but since his dad has disappeared and wouldn't respond, it finally came down to a court order. My sole custody "wasn't enough" for whoever was doing the paperwork that day.
Along with that, I have to have an official/stamped copy of the court order saying I can take him outside of the country without his father. So, I HAVE to have that, but I've never had anyone ask to see it.
I know of one person who went with his girlfriend and her kids and she had to show it.
So, yes it's required, but you may be able to get through without it. Passport alone does not mean you're "allowed" to do it, just that you'll probably be able to because no one checks.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Mar 19, 2013 14:36:04 GMT -5
My cousin was widowed in 2001 when their son was almost 3. Last time she had to renew his passport the clerk did not understand why she could not get his signature - still wonder how someone in that line of work could not know the meaning of the word deceased!
ETA- As awful as this is, I am glad your friend is on top of the situation with her MIL and also very thankful that she has friends like you, Thyme.
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