grits
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Post by grits on Mar 15, 2013 13:04:45 GMT -5
I started bailing my family out of their messes when I was a kid. Back then, it meant I had to fix situations. Over time, I grew immune to their guilt trips. At this point in time, screw up, and you can fix it yourself.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Mar 15, 2013 13:06:24 GMT -5
I agree Drama. People who manage to convice others to support their laziness for decades tend to be very manipulative. No good can come from inviting a manipulative person into your house and into your marriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 13:07:56 GMT -5
I had a relative that was complaining to me about money and asking me to help them. I responded that I'd learned a lot about money the past few years and if they were comfortable with it, I could see if I could help come up with a plan so they won't keep having the same problems over and over. The response was "I DON'T NEED A PLAN! I NEED SOME MONEY!!!".
Ummm..... okay. Well, no matter how much money you get, if you don't change what you're doing, you're going to keep having the same problem. The next time they asked me for money, I asked "Have you thought about that plan I mentioned last time?". It was kind of difficult to say what I did, because I like to help people if I can, and I especially have a soft spot for my family. But I've learned that some people you can't help until they're ready to help themselves.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 15, 2013 13:12:33 GMT -5
Thank you all but it is okay. Being the oldest son, his twisted mind grew to consider me a threat. Yet, at times, he would turn to me to confide in me. The poor man would have been 89 April 9th, and he had carried deep pain in his heart from his childhood on. 80 years is a long time to carry deep pain. I only took one day off from work, and went back. It was a huge mistake. I was already under too much stress before he died. It just made it worse. i had to leave work, and go to the hospital. I had all the warning signs of heart attack, and stroke. They barefy got my name into the system, and whisked me into a room to start treatment. I was very impressed with the care I received. My condolences on your loss, grits. I'm sure glad you got to the hospital for treatment. Time is of the essence in situations like that. I also hope you'll take a bit of time for yourself.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Mar 15, 2013 13:20:12 GMT -5
So sorry for your less, Grits. Take care of your self first, that heart episode is a warning bell.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 15, 2013 13:42:31 GMT -5
grits, I am sorry for your loss.... Petunia is right. Please take care of yourself.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Mar 15, 2013 14:12:39 GMT -5
My dad passed this week. Some of my relatives are in for a shock. I will not be the gravy train. I am very good at tough love. Sorry for your loss, Grits. You've mentioned that in recent posts that he wasn't doing well. I'll keep you, your brother, and your father in my thoughts and prayers.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Mar 15, 2013 14:21:43 GMT -5
Sorry for your loss Grits. Please do take care of yourself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 14:22:59 GMT -5
Sorry for your loss, grits.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 15, 2013 15:06:11 GMT -5
"I think that my extended family sees that my DH makes good money and so they don't think it's an imposition." "I love to remind them it is "our" money as in my wife and I... Not "our" money as in the whole damn family." "She thinks that we are wealthy and that if we could just help him get on his feet he would turn his life around." =================================== Well I am now into my fifth decade of life and it STILL floors me that people/family just "assume" because you have money or means THEY are somehow entitled to it. I will NEVER understand that mentality
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 16:17:41 GMT -5
Grits, I'm so, so sorry for your loss.
But frankly I'm even sorrier that it hit you so hard and that you were so unwell. Please take good care of yourself!
____
Cyanne I don't have much experience with this but I wish you the best. I think the idea of sending emails is a good one, it's all there is writing, and then at some point it will become their comprehension issue. Best of luck to you.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 15, 2013 16:31:04 GMT -5
Contracts work if you take them to court. One, the witnesses are all dead. Two, consider it a lesson learned, and it takes more than this for us to sue family. Suing a family member brings explosive devision to the family. If you can't afford to give it outright, don't loan it. One-well duh! I know. You posted it happened in the 40s. I was addressing contracts in the present and future. Two-Maybe it would take more for your family but for other families, it may take less depending upon the amount owed. If you loan money to family or friends, consider the strong possibility it will probably never be paid back so you might as well consider it a gift. Otherwise, loan only enough (if you are so inclined to loan) so it doesn't create family conflict if not repaid.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 15, 2013 16:33:28 GMT -5
Contracts work if you take them to court. A judgement means nothing to a dead beat. A judgment against the dead beat means the dead beat most likely has to pay the court costs. Try getting out of that.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 15, 2013 17:05:29 GMT -5
Only the OP has the insight necessary to know whether the brother will be a repeat of last time. I think a lot of the cynicism here is coming from personal experience that didn't turn out well. I hope the OP has a more positive experience, but I recognize the odds are against her.
Someone already said that any excuse/reason you give will be interpreted as a negotiation point. They'll tell you that he has changed, or <x> won't happen this time, or he promises... no! In cases like this, NEVER be the one who pays up front.
I like the tactic of using e-mail first, and then referencing the e-mail when the call comes. They will continue to ask you so long as you appear to be the easiest/most likely solution to the problem.
You have a vast array of angles to play though. I personally think "it didn't work out last time" is the strongest. I doubt I'd even bother with "well why don't YOU take him in" because I'm sure they will list a bunch of things that they have done already.
If your family is the type that is going to harass you endlessly and eventually you'll have to offer "something" just to get some peace, then figure out what it is your are willing to give (perhaps one month payment towards a storage facility?) and make them really work at you to get that concession. Then you can say you gave your peace.
Or maybe yours is such that no matter what you do, all that matters is right now, and they will resent you anyway.
Best of luck!
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 15, 2013 17:21:46 GMT -5
Grits, I'm so, so sorry for your loss. But frankly I'm even sorrier that it hit you so hard and that you were so unwell. Please take good care of yourself! ____ Cyanne I don't have much experience with this but I wish you the best. I think the idea of sending emails is a good one, it's all there is writing, and then at some point it will become their comprehension issue. Best of luck to you. Thank you. I was already planning to go out of town this weekend because my stress levels at work were way too high. My dad's passing wasn't that tough. It was more that my bro didn't tell me until last week that dad had been in the hospital for a long while. My family is beyond dysfunctional. It makes it easy to tell them no about anything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 17:43:58 GMT -5
Grits you need to say goodbye to your dad in any way that works for you, and then do what's good for you.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 15, 2013 17:47:26 GMT -5
My dad passed this week. Some of my relatives are in for a shock. I will not be the gravy train. I am very good at tough love. I'm very sorry for your loss, Grits. I hope that you and yours are doing okay.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 15, 2013 18:24:45 GMT -5
My brother in law ( who is very responsible LOL ), has a standard reply to anyone who tries to impose on him. He just says, " No can do " and leaves it at that. He doesn't get into any long explanations or excuses as to why he can't do "it". He just won't do it. He knows what are his problems and what aren't.
Just because someone wants to hand you a big ball of shit doesn't mean you have to reach out and grasp it. It's not your problem. It's your brother's problem because he's been a jerk and now, nobody wants to deal with him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 18:33:54 GMT -5
My condolences to you as well, grits....glad to see you're taking the weekend to go do something for yourself. My dh has had a very stressful week, too. My mom would have turned 89 this year too, tomorrow in fact, but unfortunately she passed at 43.
Cyanne, I wish you the best luck dealing with your brother and mother..my advice after doing it, is again,........don't.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Mar 15, 2013 19:12:37 GMT -5
Grits, I am sorry for your loss and hope that the weekend helps you de-stress and recover your health.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 19:50:34 GMT -5
If your parents feel that someone should take him in, why don't they take hîm in? if he felt that staying at your place was so bad that he wouldn't speak to you afterwards, I wouldn't take him back. There are homeless shelters if he can't afford an apartment or room in a house. i agree with responding to the email. My mom lives 11 hours away. He is in intensive therapy since the suicide attempt and wouldn't have that available to him at her place. My dad is in the hospital with a binary pulmonary embolism. He lives with a friend. They have offered to let him sleep on the couch and to share a small storage unit. My brother has a social worker that is attempting to locate a place for him but most homeless shelters are set up for women and children. So far the only place is a half way house for alcoholics and recovering drug addicts.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 15, 2013 19:55:45 GMT -5
The social worker will deal with it. He may have to be put into a community mental health program after he's released. Larger communities have halfway houses for the mentally ill and it's possible they could set him up with a little job while he gets counseling. If he has to live with recovering addicts and alcoholics it may be the path he has to walk. Sorry for the troubles of your parents.
Don't take this on. I think your brother has bigger problems than just living with a relative can handle. I would let the system work things out for your brother.
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 15, 2013 19:59:18 GMT -5
I told my dad goodbye over the phone. I told him that I loved him, missed him, I was sorry he was suffering, and I forgave him. I made peace with myself many years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 20:00:54 GMT -5
My condolences on your loss, Grits.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 20:03:52 GMT -5
I see I missed something earlier when I posted on this thread..... grits, I'm sorry to hear about your Dad, your family and your health. I hope this weekend does you some good. Take good care of yourself. cyanne, have you decided what, if anything, you're willing to do to help your brother? Have you responded to your Mom yet? The details in your last post make the situation sound like one where it could be really difficult to just say "Not my problem". That doesn't mean it IS your problem, but it's just not so simple. I sure don't envy you being in that position.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 15, 2013 20:05:11 GMT -5
A judgment against the dead beat means the dead beat most likely has to pay the court costs. Try getting out of that. So, what would the court do? You can't get blood out of a turnip. Go after him? Contempt of court? Jail time?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 20:09:11 GMT -5
The social worker will deal with it. He may have to be put into a community mental health program after he's released. Larger communities have halfway houses for the mentally ill and it's possible they could set him up with a little job while he gets counseling. If he has to live with recovering addicts and alcoholics it may be the path he has to walk. Sorry for the troubles of your parents. Don't take this on. I think your brother has bigger problems than just living with a relative can handle. I would let the system work things out for your brother. He's already been released. He is back in his apartment that he can't afford and is packing up all of his belongings. My mom paid last months rent ($1100) since he didn't have it. No one in my family has an extra $1100 to keep him in this apartment. I agree that the social worker will help him. I also know that it won't be his ideal living situation but he refused to get help a year ago when he was living with me. I told him to get back into therapy and back on medication then. He did not follow my advice. He has suffered from depression and anxiety his whole life. I've already helped him on multiple occasions throughout the years. My husband and I have bought him dress clothes (suit, belt, dress shirt and dress shoes) for interviews twice in the last ten years. We've purchased food for him when he first got his apartment. We've given him furnishings for his apartment. When I was a single parent 18 years ago he lived with me and stiffed me on rent. I feel bad because I know that he has mental health issues but he has not dealt with them effectively in the past and has pissed away many, many opportunities. I am tired of everyone excusing his behavior and bending over backwards to help him when he hasn't helped himself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 20:13:05 GMT -5
This was my the opening to my mom's e-mail to me.
DB is in need of a place to store some of his furniture. Would you have any space at your house? Talk with DH about it. You can say no - no explanations needed.
I just replied to my mom's e-mail. I typed: No.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 15, 2013 20:13:40 GMT -5
Go after him? Contempt of court? Jail time? Yeah, that's what should happen, but with the counties being forced to prematurely release the inmates they now have, do you think contempt charges would get anyone jail time? I don't see why not. If you are found in contempt of court you are either fined or received a bit of jail time. What's twenty-four or seventy-two hours in jail in the overall scheme of things? Fail to pay the fine-go to jail!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 15, 2013 20:14:16 GMT -5
So, what would the court do? You can't get blood out of a turnip. Go after him? Contempt of court? Jail time? A court cannot order someone to,pay in a civil case, they can only issue a judgment where it's up to the creditor to enforce with wage garnishments and property seizures. They do not jaill someone for contempt of court for failure to pay a judgment.
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