stats45
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Post by stats45 on Feb 6, 2011 14:11:39 GMT -5
Excellent advice here. Jitterbug's post is especially interesting; I always wondered what people did in that situation.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 6, 2011 14:29:00 GMT -5
Both of your concerns should focus away from yourselves and to the baby. Personally, I'm shocked that financial management in a relationship has not come up until after you got pregnant. I'm also shocked that your friends marital status has any baring on how your relationship moves and develops.
At a minimum, I think you should have a joint account for joint expenses with him contributing a fair amount. While maybe not intentional, he's taking advantage of you. He doesn't want to lose his investments but is okay with not contributing fairly to the household? No wonder he can grow his investments at such a quick pace. And you're left holding the bag.
You've got to smarten up if he continues down this road because you may be left caring for this child alone.
Combining income is so much more powerful and allows couples achieve their joint goals much easier.
Once my wife and I got engaged, we combined finances. I helped her pay off some credit card debt she had at the time and she helped me pay off my private student loans, which were substantial. We worked together as a team to achieve our joint goals then and now she stays at home with our son and is 8 months pregnant with our second son.
You guys might want to quickly have the conversation about how you want to raise your child. That tends to be another big reason that relationships don't work out. Would you like to stay home for a bit? What are his feelings on that as that would mean he covers 100% of expenses?
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 14:36:47 GMT -5
You're right of course. I have wrestled with feelings of being taken advantage of and thoughts that I would certainly have a lot more if I had been able to rent out my house and live bill free at his house all this time. As far as my friends' relationships- I don't know: monkey see, monkey do?
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 14:39:44 GMT -5
Would you like to stay home for a bit?
He actually asked me about how I would feel about him being a SAHP. I didn't answer that directly but instead asked how he would feel about the reverse. After giving it some thought, he said it would probably be important for us to both earn as much as we can while we're in a position to do so. Which I 100% agree with.
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MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on Feb 6, 2011 14:50:29 GMT -5
As far as the tax situation, this is a good time of the year to consider that. Each of you will be doing your own tax return. Once you're done, combine the figures on to a joint return and see exactly what the difference would be if you had been married, filing jointly for 2010.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 14:52:16 GMT -5
Great idea!
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 6, 2011 14:57:12 GMT -5
I understand the human nature behind it but having a child is a game changing event. You guys need to figure out quick whether this life you've been spending together for the last 4 years [and living together for the last how many] is the one both of you want.
Have you posed this question to him? Maybe he's so focused on not being screwed over financially that he doesn't realize he's screwing over the woman he loves. Every dollar you spend that should be paid by him is a dollar less in savings that you have right now.
Do you agree 100% with that? If so, I find it odd that you didn't answer it directly, but instead asked him his opinion. I get and understand you're not a rock the apple cart kind of girl. My wife is the same. But, you're world isn't and shouldn't only be about money right now but what is best for the child the both of you are about to have together.
You guys are in the range of a $1m net worth combined. If you make $80k right now, 41.4% of that will go directly to taxes [$32k]. I assume in VA, a good day care is going to run roughly $12k a year. Now you're left with $36k a year before accounting for gasoline to get to work, clothes you wear to work and any specific lifestyle choices. Will you eat out more because you're too tired to cook, where will the day care be located, etc, etc.
Basically, what is the net impact of you working - let's just say it's $30k? Is your 2000+ hours away from your child worth $15 per hour?
We faced that choice. My wife would have pulled in about $50-60k at the time but could have worked that up to about $100k in her career.
Our net worth is not as high as your combined net worth but we've got everything we need and more. There comes a point where time is more valuable than money. What point is that for you and him?
ETA: I got 41.4% for taxes since you'd be in the 28% fed bracket combined, 7.65% for FICA and 5.75% for Virginia income tax[/size]
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Feb 6, 2011 15:10:06 GMT -5
I'm sorry. I know that I am an outsider, but I wouldn't believe that he makes $140k. I don't know any men with the drive and ambition to make that money who would be willing to give it up to stay at home the first time it was discussed. Combine this with not paying any bills, and I see serious warning signs.
Trust but verify.
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Post by ineedaplan on Feb 6, 2011 15:12:26 GMT -5
I'm sorry. I don't know the situation, but I wouldn't believe that he makes $140k. I don't know any men with the drive and ambition to make that money who would be willing to give it up to stay at home the first time it was discussed. Combine this with not paying any bills, and I see serious warning signs. I had the exact same thought. Did you get some proof of this income?
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 6, 2011 15:17:30 GMT -5
He never said that. They were discussing whether she wanted to stay home and he said he thought it would be best if they both earned as much as they could right now.
While he may have drive and ambition, my concern is that he has a fond attachment to money and may care about it a little too much, to the point of under contributing to household expenses.[/size]
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 6, 2011 15:22:00 GMT -5
Knowing only your side of the story, I don't like him
I don't like the fact that he was perfectly fine living with you for 3 yrs and not contributing I don't like that he is seem more concern about loosing his investments than trusting you I don't like his position "well, we can get married if YOU want to" I don't like that it took a baby to have a conversation that should have happened years ago
Before deciding on financial factors, I would evaluate your relationship. After being together for 4 yrs and living together for 3, you both should have known by now where you stand on such "life" issues as SAH parenting, how finances are handled, whether you are getting married or not.
May be I am too old school or too conservative or too something, or may be I am just missing something, but it doesn't seem like you have a serious relationship. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before
Lena
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 15:21:35 GMT -5
All sorts of alarms are going off in my head. For example - has he been able to save that much money because you've been paying all the bills? How does that make sense?
It seems to me (without a whole lot of info) that you are more invested in the relationship.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 6, 2011 15:48:09 GMT -5
You always put it so much better than I do. OP sounds WAY too much like my GF. I know what happened to her.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 16:06:49 GMT -5
I work from home so I've been entertaining the thought of a nanny/sitter coming in from 9-5 M-F at least the first year. I don't know how easy that is to find though. I should be able to get 12 weeks off. We've really been discussing a lot this weekend and not all decisions have to be made immediately.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 16:11:41 GMT -5
The financial picture I shared is accurate and factual.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 6, 2011 16:37:56 GMT -5
Something just doesn't ring true then. Are you leaving something out? How does a guy live with someone for free and contribute nothing except now, a baby? How does he REALLY feel about the baby?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 6, 2011 16:46:52 GMT -5
If that works for you, than really, that's all that matters.
Me? I would pretty much want to know two seconds BEFORE "immediately" what were my partner's stands on money, parenting and such if I got pregnant by non-husband.
I really do wish you well, but something about the whole thing doesn't sound very comforting.
Lena
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 16:53:41 GMT -5
...because I asked him. When we first talked about it forever ago he didn't have renters and felt like my bills were the same regardless of whether he lived there. I just haven't been demanding enough of him and live a pretty comfortable lifestyle so I never made it an issue. I feel certain he would have given me whatever I asked if I had just been more direct about it and he's commented before about me needing to work on being more forthright about my needs. Thus, I took care of the bills at my place and he took care of the bills at his places.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 6, 2011 17:18:23 GMT -5
BINGO!!! NOW the whole thing makes sense. I believe you know how this is going to go down. Have you ever gone to the WIR threads?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 6, 2011 17:20:31 GMT -5
Re: #47 - like I said, your arrangement seems to work for you, so that's great. So, all you have left to do is figure out if you can work out finances (together vs separate vs mix) and you are good to go.
I couldn't be with someone like that - his attitude screams "I am selfish and not really committed to you" to me. To me the whole idea behind relationship is that demands are not necessary, especially when you live together. Whether couples keep actual $$ in the same accounts or different ones, finances should be done in a way that benefits both.
Let's pretend for a second that he moves out tomorrow. He benefited greatly by living free for the last 3 yrs. What about you?? Just bc you could afford it doesn't mean that you should have.
And as much as I love money, it's not always about actual dollars. From what you described the picture is this "you took care of you and him, he took care of him". I don't know... may be he took care of you in many other ways that are not money-related and may be he is the nicest, kindest, most giving guy, but looking at financial side of things, it just doesn't seem that way.
Lena
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 17:29:46 GMT -5
I don't really know what you mean by how it's going to go down. But I do know that we're both reasonable and adaptable people. Therefore, I don't have too many doubts about having a wonderful future together.
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Post by ineedaplan on Feb 6, 2011 17:31:24 GMT -5
Re: #47 - like I said, your arrangement seems to work for you, so that's great. So, all you have left to do is figure out if you can work out finances (together vs separate vs mix) and you are good to go. I couldn't be with someone like that - his attitude screams "I am selfish and not really committed to you" to me. To me the whole idea behind relationship is that demands are not necessary, especially when you live together. Whether couples keep actual $$ in the same accounts or different ones, finances should be done in a way that benefits both. Let's pretend for a second that he moves out tomorrow. He benefited greatly by living free for the last 3 yrs. What about you?? Just bc you could afford it doesn't mean that you should have. And as much as I love money, it's not always about actual dollars. From what you described the picture is this "you took care of you and him, he took care of him". I don't know... may be he took care of you in many other ways that are not money-related and may be he is the nicest, kindest, most giving guy, but looking at financial side of things, it just doesn't seem that way. Lena Ditto. Every single word of this response.
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Post by ineedaplan on Feb 6, 2011 17:33:46 GMT -5
I don't really know what you mean by how it's going to go down. But I do know that we're both reasonable and adaptable people. Therefore, I don't have too many doubts about having a wonderful future together. We mean that from the story you have provided, you are just now looking out for your interests in a very passive way, and he doesn't seemed to have ever looked out for your interests. Good luck to you.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Feb 6, 2011 17:38:07 GMT -5
He actually asked me about how I would feel about him being a SAHP. I didn't answer that directly but instead asked how he would feel about the reverse. Seems like a lot of verbal fencing - maybe you guys need to go toe-to-toe and be direct with each other. Nothing wrong with intellectual honesty - and if there is a clash, then it's time to build consensus (w/o being adversarial). But I don't see unfairness or 'taking advantage' - he probably feels that a communal fortune is being built and it doesn't matter which pay check goes for what bill. The rentals have neg cash flow - he undoubtedly wants to use income stream to 'feed' them with the expectation that you'll have a solid investment one day. At any rate, it appears that the Little One has good genes and will have a really good college fund by 2029. And maybe a nice 2024 used toyota for the Jr & Sr years in HS. And maybe a couple younger brothers & sisters?
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 17:58:40 GMT -5
Thanks Phil, if all goes well, it will absolutely be a beautiful, smart, athletic, talented and well-loved baby. I am working on being more direct. We also discussed how big we want our family to be and we're on the same page as far as that goes. First things first.
Thanks everyone for helping me think through these issues and major life decisions.
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Post by bobbysgirl on Feb 6, 2011 18:12:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't either. I think he would step up if I were firm about it. And, he's told me before to be more firm with him. It's just not really my nature. Your name is gooddecisions, but has it been a good decision all of these years to not expect him to pay rent or whatever while his accounts grew and yours didn't (as high as his)? Or maybe I'm missing something in your OP. His rentals are his concern. If the rent is lower than the mortgage, I'm sorry, but you didn't have anything to do with it. It's the cost of doing business. Do you feel like you are being taken advantage of? What I see is, as a trend in this country, a lot of women being taken advantage of. They are responsible and the males go to their sports bars and man rooms, because they 'work so hard'. Meanwhile the woman is cleaning, cooking, working, raising the kids and doing the shopping and banking. My marriage was like your parents, but I always had my own saving account, in addition to the family ones. DH was secure enough not to give it a second thought. He also knew I could be trusted to act in the interest of the family unit. Congrats on the baby! I know things don't always work out the way we plan, but babies are a true blessing. (It's teens who need to be sent back!)
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Feb 6, 2011 19:30:05 GMT -5
Oh dear. On one hand, yes, it is your job to stand up for yourself. On the other hand, him blaming your lack of forthrightness for him not paying his fair share? That's bad with a capital B. In fact, that's a classic sign of a bully or an abuser--they always blame the victim.
That's what we're having so much trouble with, as a group. Your SO is profiting at your expense.
It's fine to have separate money. It's not fine for him to take advantage of you, and then blame you for it. That's just not what people who love each other do.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 6, 2011 19:45:26 GMT -5
I am really of two minds about this situation. On the one hand, I DO think he has been taking advantage of you, and I think you need to speak up more. If your SO isn't looking out for you, you need to.
On the other hand, some very solid families start out on less-traditional footing. I hope yours is one of those.
I think how things move forward from this point on is probably fairly indicative of how things will go.
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jitterbug
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Post by jitterbug on Feb 6, 2011 19:53:48 GMT -5
In my opinion, the OP hasn't been too concerned about what's fair or being taken advantage of and maybe that's just because she's more into the relationship than about the money. And maybe he's the same way. BUT, now that the conversation has started and they might be in a long term relationship, it would be good if they could iron a lot of this out now. My NH and I rarely argue AT ALL about money and it's partly because we have similar financial expectations - and partly because we talked so much of this out ahead of time while preparing our pre-nup.
And while we have pooled everything other than the investments we each had before marriage...we also have set up a spreadsheet that allocates money for long term expenses (taxes, house insurance, vacation) - and we each have our own column on the spreadsheet that gives us guilt free money to spend as we wish. No questions asked. So we have merged our money - but we each have our "own" money to spend as we wish too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 19:54:32 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
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