gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 11:59:27 GMT -5
DF and I are 33 and have been together almost 4 years. We finally had a serious conversation about finances and goals. It doesn't sound like he's too interested in being a "common potter". My parents share everything from their accounts to a cell phone to an email address, so I've always thought of a marriage as combining everything.
He makes a lot more money than I do, but I have a pretty decent financial picture. I can't really figure this out. He's lived in my house the past 3 years while renting out both his properties (at a net loss) and I've paid all the bills- except maybe groceries and whatever he might pay on his houses. Does he think I'm going to suddenly turn into a gold digger or shop-aholic?
We also learned this weekend that I'm pregnant and he's seems pretty excited about that. I can't say I'm especially thrilled because I reallly wanted to be married before starting a family.
We're both hard workers and savers and everything we've earned, we've done on our own- so I think we're compatible in that sense.
me 80k- salary 50k- savings 100k- retirement accounts
him 140k- salary 150k- investments 200k- retirement accounts 100k- CDs
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Post by justwhoever on Feb 6, 2011 12:05:06 GMT -5
Congrats on the baby!
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april47
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Post by april47 on Feb 6, 2011 12:07:52 GMT -5
I really don't know why he isn't contributing more to household expenses. He will have to soon so he needs get his mind to wrap around that fact. It doesn't have to be his and hers. There can be a third category to include household expenses and baby. He can still have his own account. You need to sit down with him again and very calmly present a budget that will include "ours" but still leave "his" and "hers". You are taking way too much of the burden.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Feb 6, 2011 12:13:42 GMT -5
He may have been in a relationship before where finances were an issue. Has he been married before?
Also, he may have been in a relationship where the financial rules changed as the relationship became more serious.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 12:14:59 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't either. I think he would step up if I were firm about it. And, he's told me before to be more firm with him. It's just not really my nature.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 12:16:07 GMT -5
Neither of us have been married before. I do think he has some trust issues with finances and probably commitment issues.
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Post by ineedaplan on Feb 6, 2011 12:17:57 GMT -5
Have you two discussed the why and how of the way you split your living expenses? I don't understand why he doesn't pay a portion of the utilities, rent, etc. His homes are just like his investment accounts, he pays into them for his benefit (unless your name is on them? which I seriously doubt?). He should have to pay living expenses just like the next person, and you have been really nice to put up with this for so long.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 12:20:49 GMT -5
No, I'm not on his houses and he's not on mine. All were purchased before meeting each other.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 12:23:50 GMT -5
The good news is at least we can comfortably live on one salary should we ever need to
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Feb 6, 2011 12:24:40 GMT -5
I know that it is really hard to discuss these things early in a relationship, but sometimes if you wait, it makes it even more difficult to discuss. One person bringing it up after a few years can seem unusual or bring up his prior issues you were discussing.
You said something about commitment issues. Have you had conversations about marriage with him in the past? If so, how long have you known about these things? Have his feelings changed at all over time?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 6, 2011 12:27:15 GMT -5
He's lived in my house the past 3 years while renting out both his properties (at a net loss) and I've paid all the bills- except maybe groceries and whatever he might pay on his houses."Whatever he might pay on his houses" is not an expense - it's one of HIS investments. He's making nearly twice as much as you and doesn't cover his half of household expenses (except maybe groceries) ? Something is very, very wrong with this picture. I reallly wanted to be married before starting a family.Have you told him that?
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 12:30:19 GMT -5
No, we didn't really discuss marriage. Almost nobody we associate with is married, so we just weren't on the fast track in that regard at all. At the same time, I think we're both ready to move on with the next phase of life.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 12:36:11 GMT -5
Yes, we had a long 12 hour conversation this weekend after I took a test. I don't know how I feel about a shotgun wedding or one after a baby is born. Of course, there is always the JoP. He said he would do whatever I wanted. I do know that neither of us want a big expensive wedding regardless of timing.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Feb 6, 2011 12:44:01 GMT -5
You know, it's probably not conscious/with malice aforethought on his part, and nothing good ever comes of putting your partner on the defensive.
But: he's taking advantage of you.
He can't have it both ways. He doesn't want to be common potters, but as it's set up he's counting his losses (on HIS investment properties) as his contribution to the household. That doesn't wash.
I'd recommend you lay out your monthly budget of common expenses (you can leave your mortgage/PITI out, if you like), before and after baby comes, and sit down with him to discuss what each of you should be contributing. Be aware, though, that if he's contributing to the mortgage in some states he may have a legal claim to part of your equity. Not that that's automatically a bad thing, it's just something to keep in mind that it's very different to categorize things as "rent" rather than "mortgage contribution".
I think this will probably be a pretty easy fix, but you do need to step up and stand up for what you want. If you don't ask for it, you won't get it. (Second gardeninggrandma: have you told him you'd like to be married before having children? You're sharing lives; you need to talk to each other.)
Good luck!
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Feb 6, 2011 12:44:52 GMT -5
The legal and property rules of marriage vary from state to state. Depending on where you live, partners may not have a clear legal claim on assets or income of the other partner. I just say this because marriage alone won't necessarily deeper financial/commitment issues that may need a lot of discussion.
Also, how do you have such specific information on his finances if they are not held in common? I received some great advice on these boards (well, the old boards) about thinking about finances with my partner. We decided that we wanted to have some of our finances in common and agreed that in order to do that we would share all information with each other (credit reports, investments, even amounts of savings bonds). We had been together for about two years at that point, but it made us feel more comfortable in sharing what finances we do have in common. I would certainly do this if I was going to be married.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 12:49:01 GMT -5
When I asked him about sharing finances he did actually suggest a his, her and shared account and attempted to school me on it. I'm not sure he's aware of how many financial boards I read, lol. So, I do think that possibly we would move into the direction of having a household account to pay the bills. I think he's maybe a little worried that combining everything would mean completely losing independence. But, it's not exactly like we're living month to month barely getting by- so I just don't see having to check with each other on every purchase.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 12:53:29 GMT -5
Also, how do you have such specific information on his finances if they are not held in common?
We laid all the cards on the table. Hence, "the conversation".
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 6, 2011 12:57:56 GMT -5
So what you are saying is that he has been living with you and having sex with you, you are pregnant now and want more from him, right? Are you okay if not standing up for yourself means things just continue the way they are going? Are you okay with saying what you want even if it means he leaves the relationship?
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The J
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Post by The J on Feb 6, 2011 12:58:10 GMT -5
You have to simply come up with a system you both can agree with. There's not anything inherently wrong with separate finances, as long as it works for you. When you have two financially successful individuals, there may be control issues that would come up with completely comingled finances.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 13:08:30 GMT -5
Yes, a baby definitely changes things. I think we could have an amazing future together, but I know financial issues are a major contributor to divorce, so I just want to make sure we're on the same page- even if it means finding out we're not.
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on Feb 6, 2011 13:08:59 GMT -5
I think there is a lot to be said for his/hers and "ours" accounts. But the rules should be clear. That said the one couple I knew that really did that ended in divorce after she started making "real" money and he wasn't. With both of you being high earners and him being even higher then you hopefully it won't be an issue.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Feb 6, 2011 13:11:09 GMT -5
Ok. I was just wondering if you wanted any sort of confirmation of what you discussed. My partner wanted more than me to have a common account, and we ended up showing each other our complete financial picture. It really helped both of us. We easily headed off quite a few potential arguments by being so transparent.
I agree with J that there are many different arrangements that work. I brought up the marriage law differences because there are certain types of legal responsibilities and relationships you will have to each other no matter what if you are married depending on where you live.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 13:16:08 GMT -5
He does seem most concerned about losing his investments if something went wrong. I don't have anything against signing a pre-nup- assuming it's fair for both sides. We're in VA.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 6, 2011 13:20:15 GMT -5
He does seem most concerned about losing his investments if something went wrong.
VA is not a community property state. If he's THAT concerned about losing his investments, he can have a lawyer draw up a prenup for you to sign. Personally, I'd be concerned about his lack of concern about fairness to you.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Feb 6, 2011 13:25:44 GMT -5
me 80k- salary 50k- savings 100k- retirement accounts
him 140k- salary 150k- investments 200k- retirement accounts 100k- CDs we220k - salary 150k - savings 300k - retirement accounts 150k - investments 3 houses As a family, you guys have an awesome balance sheet. A $220k income stream and maybe $750,000 to $1,000,000 in Net Worth. It seems that it would be way easier to 'combine' rather than try to sort out who is responsible for what bill? (Of course I've been married for 42 yrs, I can't even remember 'mine/yours', it has always been ours.) Filing jointly will probably lower your tax bill. And the combo listing reveals a $150k out-of-control savings account - probably should cap that at about $20k and get that other $130k working for you. (We cap ours at $5000.)
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 13:37:01 GMT -5
Thanks Phil, I agree there is too much in savings accounts. He actually talked about paying off the mortgages because the market has been so bad. I thought "that's not what Phil would do" but instead said that would probably be a mistake. We were also discussing which filing status in the future makes more sense. I'm not going to push the issue about "ours" if financial success is still achievable with separate accounts, but it seems more efficient to obtain financial goals if it's all shared.
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jitterbug
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Post by jitterbug on Feb 6, 2011 13:49:05 GMT -5
I would definitely recommend a pre-nup - and maybe talking that through would ease his mind about merging assets and bills? My DH and I are both in our 2nd marriage (I was in a happy 1st marriage but my husband died and my current husband is divorced and was unhappy for many years and his wife was a spender).
My new husband's salary is 3 times as much as mine ($35,000 vs $110,000) - but I have substantial investment assets and a paid-for house. I definitely wanted to protect my assets in case of a divorce, but I wanted to live my married life as mutually as possible. I knew there would be a lot of resentment on my part if we kept everything separate (I have an accounting degree, so I DO tend to count every penny!) And I wanted things to be "ours" - our house, our car, our home improvements. But I needed to know that if this marriage didn't work out, I'd walk away with a minimum of what I came into the marriage iwth.
So we set up our prenup so that if we divorced, we each walked away with the dollar value of what we were worth the day we married and we split any increase. We also set a dollar value on my house and if we split, I get the first $175,000 of it's value and we split the difference. After all, it's "his" paycheck that is funding any improvement we put into it. If we sell this house and buy a bigger one - and then split up, I still get the first $175,000.
If you guys are going to have a baby, you will be tied together for life - so it would be wonderful if you could figure out a way to make a married life work!
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 6, 2011 13:52:08 GMT -5
Reading your experience is very helpful jitterbug and exactly why I posted to a finance board and not a relationship board
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Feb 6, 2011 14:03:41 GMT -5
Once you are married you will choose married filing jointly because it is the best choice for 99% of the married people. When you have a child one of you can file Head of household but not both.
I think you have been too lax with him not helping support the household. This should have been discussed when you let him move in.
When mine moved in he as spending about 500 a month to rent house and pay all utilities so I charged him 300 to live with me figuring wear and tear on my furniture and women tend to pay most of the misc food cost and cleaning supplies, we were to split the food cost. I ended up paying all the food pretty much because I don't like saying I spend $45 on groceries you owe me 22.50 then him to say but the femine products are your so that takes it down to 20.00 and I don't like brussel sprouts so shouldn't have to pay for them so I just never asked for money for food. I included all utilities since I didn't want to ask for half of those either. Now it has been almost 25 years and if I don't buy the right food he shops and I have raised his rent a couple of times. But we still don't share money, the house is mine not ours and we don't see each other's paychecks. I do his taxes so I see at the end of the year what he made but not all the time.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 6, 2011 14:06:06 GMT -5
You need to decide what you DO want and then what you might be okay with.
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