"Fiscal Cliff" talks: 11th hour deal, or no?

[deziloooooo]

With Obama supposedly cutting his vacation short..this article is a interesting one ..suggests not all is lost yet..even allows Boehner to come out smelling like a Rose..[possible if...}

www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/12/22/167880148/how-boehners-critical-moment-could-turn-out-ok-for-him

=================================
And yet, hope has not evaporated completely. (Boehner noted on Saturday that "hope springs eternal" that a deal would be reached, and President Obama said Friday he could be called a "hopeless optimist.")

NPR senior Washington editor Ron Elving tells NPR's Guy Raz on weekends on All Things Considered that there's even a chance that Boehner could come out of this "somewhat strengthened as a speaker:"

"I actually think there is a way for John Boehner to recover from all this and to come out of it, really, as something of a hero in the broad public sense, in the general American assessment of his speakership — and even then to keep his speakership when the new Congress convenes in January."

How?

Click on link above to read HOW... ;D

[deziloooooo]

As said earlier..Obama is leaving for Washington Wednesday, cutting vacation short...

www.courant.com/news/nation-world/sns-rt-us-usa-obamabre8bl0dt-20121222,0,1325622.story
-------------------------------------------------
[Obama to cut vacation short to deal with fiscal crisis/b]


When Obama arrives back in Washington early on Thursday, the focus will shift to the U.S. Senate after Republicans in the House of Representatives failed to pass their own budget measures last week.

Obama is expected to turn to a trusted Democratic ally, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, to help craft a quick deal.

White House aides began discussing details of the year-end budget measure with Senate Democratic counterparts early this week, a senior administration official said on Monday

The president will also need at least tacit approval from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell to insure Republicans will permit passage of what is likely to be a stripped down bill that prevents taxes from rising on all Americans.

The measure may not, however, contain difficult spending cuts both parties had sought to speed deficit reduction. It is unclear how the president will seek to address the draconian across-the-board government spending reductions set to go into effect early in the year without a deal.

McConnell, who is up for re-election in 2014, has been a cautious participant in the process. His spokesman has said it was now up to Democrats in the Senate to make the next move.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 26, 2012 3:23:10 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Dec 26, 2012 1:28:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

presidential budgets are non-binding. it is always surprising to me when they get credit for them. congress generally ignores them- this one more than most. an Obama budget is as pointless as a Shooby budget.

Not at all. Because in the Shooby bugdget I actually live on what i make or less and can save the rest.

sorry if i was unclear. i meant the Shooby Budget for the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE US.

I could borrow and live on tomorrow but i don't because i don't have the legal right to thievery to go steal my neighbor's goods and fruits of their labor.

i borrow to live all of the time. every time i use the credit card to buy groceries. it is not stealing, unless i have no plans to repay it.

If i could simply do as the govt, then i would have no reason NOT to live on credit and simply walk next door and take what i need and call it a "tax" for the privilege of being my neighbor.

your neighbor is probably under no legal obligation to support you. however, you ARE under a legal obligation to support your representative government. that is true in ANY nation on Earth.

[djAdvocate]

FINALLY, they are saying it. this is from HuffPo:

And since Boehner's failed "Plan B" proposal showed he was unable to pass legislation raising rates only on millionaires, Democratic votes in both chambers would be needed.

“Whatever McConnell and Reid cook up is something that Nancy Pelosi has to support," the official said. "The Minority Leader will have a powerful role in these discussions.”

the question that comes to my mind is if Boehner will allow any bipartisan compromise to come to a vote, particularly before his speakership comes up on the 3rd.

[djAdvocate]

my prediction: we go over the cliff, but within 1-2 weeks, there is a stopgap proposal. the amount of pressure that will come to bear if they fail to negotiate prior to 1/1/13 will be intense.

[rockon]

He has shown terrible leadership as speaker but haven't seen anything better from the senate or whitehouse either. Just pitiful really. Wish they would all voluntarily step down and let someone else try.
He really has no obligation to allow Obama's bill to come up for vote since every Democrat in the house refused to support his plan b, the senate had already said they would not vote on it and the president had already said he wouldn't consider it. These people are all on the same plane IMO.

[ungenteel]

I thought the rightie's knees would buckle because of the cuts in defense spending ... might still do that ... because once removed, it won't come back easily

[rockon]

My prediction: They will cobble some sort of agreement together that extends some really bad legislation like more unemployment benefits for the long term unemployed, extends the current farm bill, and of all things Democrats should normally oppose but now insist on is extending the Bush era tax cuts for at least middle income earners.

[rockon]

"because once removed, it won't come back easily "

Spending cuts are usually symbolic and replaced before they even go into effect. Remember no crisis will ever be allowed to go to waste and you normally don't wait long for one to come along.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 28, 2012 23:45:30 GMT -5 rockon said:

He has shown terrible leadership as speaker but haven't seen anything better from the senate or whitehouse either.

yes we have. we got NOTHING from the house, rockon. the plan B proposal did not have sufficient votes. there is a proposal from the senate, and one from the president (ignoring the fact that he is not a legislator for a moment). in my book something beats nothing. especially when the legislation is this crucial.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 28, 2012 23:59:28 GMT -5 rockon said:

"because once removed, it won't come back easily "

Spending cuts are usually symbolic and replaced before they even go into effect. Remember no crisis will ever be allowed to go to waste and you normally don't wait long for one to come along.

bingo. when you consider the manufactured nature of this crisis, the debt ceiling will make for good theatre in 1-2 months.

[djAdvocate]

i have been combing around the rumor mill tonight, and i am starting to feel a bit more optimistic about the possibility of a bill on sunday or monday. the new carrot is the estate tax, and the GOP is scrambling after it.....

stay tuned!

[rockon]

"yes we have. we got NOTHING from the house, rockon. the plan B proposal did not have sufficient votes. there is a proposal from the senate, and one from the president (ignoring the fact that he is not a legislator for a moment"

No the only thing from the president has been promises when he was campaigning that if he could get 800 billion in new tax revenue then he would agree to 3 times that amount in spending cuts but after he was elected he has completely walked away from the promise. That in my book is a lie and that is worse then the nothing we have gotten from the senate or the house. Neither have proposed or passed anything that had any serious hope of making it through and we all know that.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 29, 2012 15:11:12 GMT -5 rockon said:

"yes we have. we got NOTHING from the house, rockon. the plan B proposal did not have sufficient votes. there is a proposal from the senate, and one from the president (ignoring the fact that he is not a legislator for a moment"

No the only thing from the president has been promises when he was campaigning that if he could get 800 billion in new tax revenue then he would agree to 3 times that amount in spending cuts but after he was elected he has completely walked away from the promise.

no, rockon. that is just not true. here is the current (THIRD) proposal from Obama, which thoroughly pissed off Democrats:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/obama-fiscal-cliff-offer_n_2319075.html

again, this is the THIRD proposal by the president. there is NOTHING from the House so far. NOTHING.

[Deleted]

Good morning, everyone.
I just want to shall this article with all of you, Fiscal Cliff is on your mind.

Have great a Sunday.


www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/28/come-together-breaks-washington-apart/?print=1


Twitter has been rather amused by Starbucks’ plan to solve the fiscal cliff by scrawling “come together” on every peppermint mocha and salted caramel latte sold in the Beltway.

But I want to take the project a bit more seriously. I should say, at the outset, that I admire the effort: People and CEOs should want to be engaged in American politics, they should be angry at what they see happening and they should be trying to figure out ways to pressure politicians to make things work better.

But the specific sentiment — what you might call the ideology of “come togetherism” — is, ironically, one of the big reasons that nothing in Washington ever seems to get solved and that the two sides never seem to come together.

I think the way to start here is by being specific. So here are three facts about the budget debate we’ve been having over the last couple of years.

1) Simpson-Bowles, the bipartisan debt reduction plan that’s often held up as the platonic ideal of coming together is, by any reasonable accounting, far to the left of anything the White House has ever proposed. It’s got $2.6 trillion in tax increases. That’s more than twice as much as what the White House is asking for. It’s got more defense cuts than the administration ever even considered.

I think it was a mistake for the White House not to have done more to build on Simpson-Bowles. But part of its reluctance was based on the belief that there was no way the Republicans would ever come together around the plan. Rep. Paul Ryan, for instance, was on on the Simpson-Bowles Commission, and he voted against the plan, as did every other House Republican on the panel. The White House saw no reason to embrace something that raised taxes sky high and slashed defense and would never pass.

[Deleted]

Good morning, again.

We must to find way to come together as one.


www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/29/us-usa-fiscal-marketjitters-idUSBRE8BR0J120121229



(Reuters) - Investors fearing a stock market plunge - if the United States tumbles off the "fiscal cliff" next week - may want to relax.
But they should be scared if a few weeks later, Washington fails to reach a deal to increase the nation's debt ceiling because that raises the threat of a default, another credit downgrade and a panic in the financial markets.
Market strategists say that while falling off the cliff for any lengthy period - which would lead to automatic tax hikes and stiff cuts in government spending - would badly hurt both consumer and business confidence, it would take some time for the U.S. economy to slide into recession. In the meantime, there would be plenty of chances for lawmakers to make amends by reversing some of the effects.
That has been reflected in a U.S. stock market that has still not shown signs of melting down. Instead, it has drifted lower and become more volatile.

[Spellbound454]

Crikey......This is really shitty playground politics.

Comes a time when people have to come together and do what is best for the citizens of the country.

If I were you I'd be furious....You need a government that can govern.

[Deleted]

Dec 30, 2012 8:11:47 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Crikey......This is really shitty playground politics.

Comes a time when people have to come together and do what is best for the citizens of the country.

If I were you I'd be furious....You need a government that can govern.

spell,

I am just a small fish in big pond. I am more sad then furious this point.

People are just people in my opinion. We will come together eventually. Good day.

[Spellbound454]

You have the biggest economy in the World....if it goes down... then we will too ...ie... It effects everyone.
The whole World is watching and it doesn't look good.

People are just people... but there is a lot to choose from in a country of over 300 million.
Where are the talented economists?....Where are the problem solvers?

Too much brinkmanship and not enough common sense....Nothing good can come from inflicting misery on the population. Why would they even think it?
I hope for everyone's sake they can come together to get it sorted.....and if they can't govern, they should step aside. Enough already.

[Deleted]

Dec 30, 2012 8:43:23 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Too much brinkmanship and not enough common sense....Nothing good can come from inflicting misery on the population. Why would they even think it?
I hope for everyone's sake they can come together to get it sorted.....and if they can't govern, they should step aside. Enough already.

spell,

Humans ego and politic is getting in the way of making an wise decision. It will get there some how.

How much pain they are going to inflict on ordinary citizen during the process is another question.

[Spellbound454]

Fun.. You have to be the nicest poster on this board.... good day to you too.

[Deleted]

Thank you,Spell.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Fiscal cliff deal would pale against expectations

WASHINGTON (AP) — Whether negotiated in a rush before the new year or left for early January, the fiscal deal President Barack Obama and Congress cobble together will be far smaller than what they initially envisioned as an alternative to purposefully distasteful tax increases and spending cuts.

Instead, their compromise, if they do indeed cut a deal, will put off some big decisions about tax and entitlement changes and leave other deadlines in place that will likely lead to similar moments of brinkmanship, some in just a matter of weeks.

Republican and Democratic negotiators in the Senate were hoping for an accord as early as Sunday on what threshold to set for increased tax rates, whether to keep current inheritance tax rates and exemptions and how to pay for jobless benefits and avoid cuts in Medicare payments to doctors.

An agreement would halt automatic across-the-board tax increases for virtually every American and perhaps temporarily put off some steep spending cuts in defense and domestic programs.

Gone, however, is the talk of a grand bargain that would tackle broad spending and revenue demands and set the nation on a course to lower deficits. Obama and Republican House Speaker John Boehner were once a couple hundred billion dollars apart from a deal that would have reduced the deficit by more than $2 trillion over 10 years.

The trimmed ambitions of today are a far cry from the upbeat bipartisan rhetoric of just six weeks ago, when the leadership of Congress went to the White House to set the stage for negotiations to come.

"I outlined a framework that deals with reforming our tax code and reforming our spending," Boehner said as the leaders gathered on the White House driveway on Nov. 16.

"We understand that it has to be about cuts, it has to be about revenue, it has to be about growth, it has to be about the future," House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi said at the time. "I feel confident that a solution may be in sight."

And Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., offered a bold prediction: "There is no more let's do it some other time. We are going to do it now."

That big talk is gone for now.

Senate negotiators were haggling over what threshold of income to set as the demarcation between current tax rates and higher tax rates. They were negotiating over estate limits and tax levels, how to extend unemployment benefits, how to prevent cuts in Medicare payments to doctors and how to keep a minimum income tax payment designed for the rich from hitting about 28 million middle class taxpayers.

But the deal was not meant to settle other outstanding issues, including more than $1 trillion in cuts over 10 years, divided equally between the Pentagon and other government spending. The deal also would not address an extension of the nation's borrowing limit, which the government is on track to reach any day but which the Treasury can put off through accounting measures for about two months.

That means Obama and the Congress are already on a new collision path.

Read more at: news.yahoo.com/fiscal-cliff-deal-pale-against-expectations-092812135--politics.html

Great....let's not really deal with spending issues and keep putting it off!!!

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Dec 30, 2012 8:54:24 GMT -5 @funsnowbird said:

Dec 30, 2012 8:43:23 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Too much brinkmanship and not enough common sense....Nothing good can come from inflicting misery on the population. Why would they even think it?
I hope for everyone's sake they can come together to get it sorted.....and if they can't govern, they should step aside. Enough already.

spell,

Humans ego and politic is getting in the way of making an wise decision. It will get there some how.

How much pain they are going to inflict on ordinary citizen during the process is another question.

Overspending for decades is what will inflict pain on the ordinary citizen.

[Deleted]

P I,

Do your own thinking, what you would like to believe in. And I will do the same. That is the freedom of choice our country provide to every citizen.

[vandalshandle]

I am starting to think that the republicans are right. It appears that we are going into a time period where, whether we like it or not, it's every man for himself. Maybe I should spend Monday loading up on ammo, and buying garden seeds and barbed wire. If any cut off welfare leeches start sniffing around my potato and lettuce patch, he is going to eat hot lead!

[djAdvocate]

Dec 30, 2012 7:43:36 GMT -5 @funsnowbird said:

Good morning, everyone.
I just want to shall this article with all of you, Fiscal Cliff is on your mind.

Have great a Sunday.


www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/28/come-together-breaks-washington-apart/?print=1


Twitter has been rather amused by Starbucks’ plan to solve the fiscal cliff by scrawling “come together” on every peppermint mocha and salted caramel latte sold in the Beltway.

But I want to take the project a bit more seriously. I should say, at the outset, that I admire the effort: People and CEOs should want to be engaged in American politics, they should be angry at what they see happening and they should be trying to figure out ways to pressure politicians to make things work better.

But the specific sentiment — what you might call the ideology of “come togetherism” — is, ironically, one of the big reasons that nothing in Washington ever seems to get solved and that the two sides never seem to come together.

I think the way to start here is by being specific. So here are three facts about the budget debate we’ve been having over the last couple of years.

1) Simpson-Bowles, the bipartisan debt reduction plan that’s often held up as the platonic ideal of coming together is, by any reasonable accounting, far to the left of anything the White House has ever proposed. It’s got $2.6 trillion in tax increases. That’s more than twice as much as what the White House is asking for. It’s got more defense cuts than the administration ever even considered.

I think it was a mistake for the White House not to have done more to build on Simpson-Bowles. But part of its reluctance was based on the belief that there was no way the Republicans would ever come together around the plan. Rep. Paul Ryan, for instance, was on on the Simpson-Bowles Commission, and he voted against the plan, as did every other House Republican on the panel. The White House saw no reason to embrace something that raised taxes sky high and slashed defense and would never pass.

yeah, that is the real unnoticed irony here- that the president is MORE CONSERVATIVE than the bipartisan panel on deficit reduction.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 30, 2012 10:23:19 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

Great....let's not really deal with spending issues and keep putting it off!!!

i blame congress for this. both parties. the president is pretty clearly echoing the US public on this issue. if they would simply follow his lead on it, the FC problem would be solved TODAY.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 30, 2012 10:29:45 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

Dec 30, 2012 8:54:24 GMT -5 @funsnowbird said:

spell,

Humans ego and politic is getting in the way of making an wise decision. It will get there some how.

How much pain they are going to inflict on ordinary citizen during the process is another question.

Overspending for decades is what will inflict pain on the ordinary citizen.

true. yet the "abandon ship" contingent will never have to pay the piper. how cool is that?

[usaone]

Dec 30, 2012 12:30:12 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 30, 2012 10:23:19 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

Great....let's not really deal with spending issues and keep putting it off!!!

i blame congress for this. both parties. the president is pretty clearly echoing the US public on this issue. if they would simply follow his lead on it, the FC problem would be solved TODAY.

Correct. Presidents approval number continue to climb and Republicans continue to fall.