lynnerself
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 11:42:29 GMT -5
Posts: 4,166
|
Post by lynnerself on Nov 12, 2012 19:25:51 GMT -5
The way the blood is drawn is partially dependent on how much they need to run a given test. Same as with grown-ups - sometimes a finger prick suffices. Sometimes they need to grab a couple of vials. And trust me (I run these test) the blood needed to assay every antibody that we give vaccines for would be a lot.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,865
|
Post by zibazinski on Nov 12, 2012 19:34:42 GMT -5
Funny, I taught at a state run school, govt school, and you couldn't enroll your child if they didn't have all their required shots. I agree that if you choose to not vaccinate your child, you need to inform everyone your child comes in contact with that your child isn't vaccinated. To me, that's irresponsible to expose your child to others. I'd be furious if I found out some parent exposed my child to their child's preventable diseases.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 4:19:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 19:50:16 GMT -5
I didn't mean anything negative by saying that I personally believe mercury is dangerous to people.
We used to play with it in middle school. As in, we had lunch in the science room and when the teacher wasn't around we would a bottle of it out on the table and play football with it.....
I have two children. One is ADD and the other is a dwarf. Coincidence, probably. But, we now recognize the danger of mercury better than the day when we played with it for fun. Who knows what it does to your body over time and how much exposure is necessary.
I have a relative with Parkinson's Disease and he worked with fertilizers on a farm for many years. There is a link there, or so it is believed, so I think there is likely also a link between something in our environment that effects kids and causes them to be autistic.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 4:19:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 20:06:21 GMT -5
In the state of CA, you can sign a religious waiver and admit your unvaccinated children into public school. I used to process the forms and some people would write an essay on them about why they refused to vaccinate...
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,865
|
Post by zibazinski on Nov 12, 2012 20:24:28 GMT -5
Another reason to thank GOD, I don't live in that state.
|
|
quince
Senior Member
Joined: Sept 23, 2011 17:51:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,699
|
Post by quince on Nov 12, 2012 20:32:41 GMT -5
I actually live in MI, and the city run daycare where I live allows parents to sign a waiver of immunization for "religious, medical, or other reasons"
Other? Seriously?
-looked it up-
Quick Fact: A child is exempt from immunization if a parent, guardian, or person in loco parentis of the child presents a written statement to the administrator of the child's school or operator of the group program to the effect that the requirements of this part cannot be met because of religious convictions or other objection to immunization. Medical exemptions are also allowed.
....Other objection to immunization....
So very, very not OK.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 4:19:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 20:37:00 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with religious exemptions to vaccination, but they should be as hard or harder to get than vaccines.
States where you just to check a box and sign a form have much lower vaccination rates than places where you have to have a waiver signed by a doctor or jump through some other hoop. If you don't want to vaccinate your kid because you have personal objections, that's fine. But when people don't want to vaccinate their kid because they are too lazy to go to the doctor, that is when herd immunity starts to break down.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Nov 12, 2012 20:38:21 GMT -5
Funny, I taught at a state run school, govt school, and you couldn't enroll your child if they didn't have all their required shots. I agree that if you choose to not vaccinate your child, you need to inform everyone your child comes in contact with that your child isn't vaccinated. To me, that's irresponsible to expose your child to others. I'd be furious if I found out some parent exposed my child to their child's preventable diseases. I don't follow. If your child is immunized then they are protected. It's the non-immunized child that is at risk.
|
|
quince
Senior Member
Joined: Sept 23, 2011 17:51:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,699
|
Post by quince on Nov 12, 2012 20:41:14 GMT -5
Herd immunity. Also, there are really some kids who have legitimate medical reasons NOT to be immunized- these kids rely on herd immunity entirely.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Nov 12, 2012 20:42:44 GMT -5
Funny, I taught at a state run school, govt school, and you couldn't enroll your child if they didn't have all their required shots. I agree that if you choose to not vaccinate your child, you need to inform everyone your child comes in contact with that your child isn't vaccinated. To me, that's irresponsible to expose your child to others. I'd be furious if I found out some parent exposed my child to their child's preventable diseases. I don't follow. If your child is immunized then they are protected. It's the non-immunized child that is at risk. It's a little of both. Even kids who have been immunized don't yet have full immunity until the series is complete. Also there are the littlest ones who haven't even received certain immunizations yet to consider.
|
|
quince
Senior Member
Joined: Sept 23, 2011 17:51:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,699
|
Post by quince on Nov 12, 2012 20:47:08 GMT -5
I think also even people who are immunized are not necessarily 100% protected- call it 99%...
Also immunities can decrease over time- I got my rubella titer done before getting pregnant- I am quite sure I got the MMR series as a child, but I showed up as not immune.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 12, 2012 22:44:02 GMT -5
Herd immunity. Also, there are really some kids who have legitimate medical reasons NOT to be immunized- these kids rely on herd immunity entirely. Herd immunity is (again) only relevant to children who haven't been vaccinated. In fact, herd immunity implies that a significant percentage of the population (as much as 20% or more) need not be vaccinated and yet will still "effectively" be protected by the vaccine.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,367
|
Post by Tiny on Nov 12, 2012 22:46:43 GMT -5
Funny, I taught at a state run school, govt school, and you couldn't enroll your child if they didn't have all their required shots. I agree that if you choose to not vaccinate your child, you need to inform everyone your child comes in contact with that your child isn't vaccinated. To me, that's irresponsible to expose your child to others. I'd be furious if I found out some parent exposed my child to their child's preventable diseases. I don't follow. If your child is immunized then they are protected. It's the non-immunized child that is at risk. It's not just other kids that are at risk - adults are at risk too. Adults can get mumps, measles, chicken pox, pertussis, etc. It can be life threatening. I'm kinda surprised the parents of an unimunized child hasn't been sued by a family effected by measles or pertussis. I believe there's been a couple of outbreaks with deaths that were traced back to the un-immunized kids. I think something like this is worthy of pitchforks and torches (and tar and feathering) . ADDED: and thanks to the progress in cancer treatments there's alot of people with compromised immune systems walking around out there...
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,367
|
Post by Tiny on Nov 12, 2012 22:53:06 GMT -5
For the flu/fever autism connection - shouldn't there have been a spike in autistic kids after the Spanish Flu (1918)? I do realize that the modern definition is more expansive - but wouldn't there maybe a significant jump in babies with more severe autism after the epidemic? The Spanish Flu was world wide too... so it wouldn't just be one countries records to comb thru.
The 1918 flu epidemic was pretty scary - there was alot of sickness and death.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 12, 2012 22:53:10 GMT -5
A. ...if they weren't vaccinated, in which case they weren't vaccinated.
or
B. ...if they were vaccinated as children, didn't develop a natural immunity, lost their vaccination-borne immunity, and as a result became susceptible as adults.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,367
|
Post by Tiny on Nov 12, 2012 23:00:57 GMT -5
A. ...if they weren't vaccinated, in which case they weren't vaccinated. or B. ...if they were vaccinated as children, didn't develop a natural immunity, lost their vaccination-borne immunity, and as a result became susceptible as adults. Yep, that's how it works. I do know Adults loose their immunity to Chicken Pox.. the only reason old folks didn't use to get shingles or the pox later in life if they had them as a kid was cause they kept getting exposed to Chicken Pox from all the kids in their life... It was widely thought that getting Chicken Pox bestowed life long immunity. Not so. The Japanese 'discovered' that the our immune system needs to be exposed to Chicken pox every now and then to keep the immunity. They've used a Chicken Pox vaccine for decades. One of the 'problems' was that as fewer kids got chicken pox - older adults started getting shingles/chicken pox - because they had lost their immunity (their immune system weren't re-exposed so their immune system didn't keep up with the immunity). If my doctor advises a chicken pox vaccine for me - I'm getting it. I haven't been exposed ot chicken pox in over 20 years... and don't expect to be exposed to it anytime soon (all the little kids now get the vaccine).
|
|
kgb18
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 8:15:23 GMT -5
Posts: 4,904
|
Post by kgb18 on Nov 12, 2012 23:04:45 GMT -5
My mom just got her shingles vaccine the other day. I know so many people who have gotten shingles. My mom had it at Christmas four years ago. She was miserable. She does not want to get it again.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 12, 2012 23:10:27 GMT -5
I was vaccinated for the chicken pox when I was in elementary school. I still came down with the chicken pox. I remember enjoying it. I got a few days off school to basically sit in my room and play Nintendo while my mother waited on me hand and foot. I can't recall if the chicken pox is one of the diseases with a non-negligible chance of neurological impacts, though.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 12, 2012 23:30:01 GMT -5
I was vaccinated for the chicken pox when I was in elementary school. I still came down with the chicken pox. I remember enjoying it. I got a few days off school to basically sit in my room and play Nintendo while my mother waited on me hand and foot. I can't recall if the chicken pox is one of the diseases with a non-negligible chance of neurological impacts, though. You just gave a prime example as to why you want to immunize as many people as possible. There will be a small segment of the population who cannot be immunized. Either they are allergic to the vaccine components, or are immunocompromised, either by drug (cancer chemo, anti organ rejection drugs) or disease (HIV, or other immunologic disorders. Finally, there will be some who just do not, or cannot elicit an immune response to the vaccine. The chicken pox put my lab's post doc in ICU for 3 weeks. She was one sick cookie, who caught the disease from her nephew, whose mom didn't believe in immunization.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 12, 2012 23:32:46 GMT -5
My mom just got her shingles vaccine the other day. I know so many people who have gotten shingles. My mom had it at Christmas four years ago. She was miserable. She does not want to get it again. Looking into this myself. My aunt caught shingles and she was utterly miserable. Personally, I've been miserable enough this past year to last a lifetime, shingles would add insult to injury!
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 13, 2012 0:27:11 GMT -5
Bad luck. Apparently there are est. 4.5 million cases of chicken pox per year in the US, resulting in 14,000 hospitalizations—or a 0.31% chance of serious complications. Most of these are due to viral pneumonia. Three weeks in the ICU is "near death" as far as I'm concerned. There are ~100 deaths per year in the US due to chicken pox, or a 22-in-a-million chance. You're slightly over 300 times as likely to die in a car crash. I suppose that's cold comfort to your postdoc, though.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 2:33:50 GMT -5
Bad luck. Apparently there are est. 4.5 million cases of chicken pox per year in the US, resulting in 14,000 hospitalizations—or a 0.31% chance of serious complications. Most of these are due to viral pneumonia. Three weeks in the ICU is "near death" as far as I'm concerned. There are ~100 deaths per year in the US due to chicken pox, or a 22-in-a-million chance. You're slightly over 300 times as likely to die in a car crash. I suppose that's cold comfort to your postdoc, though. However, of the cases that are reported, 90% of them are in children under 15, but 50% of the 100 deaths are adult.
|
|
Nazgul Girl
Junior Associate
Babysitting our new grandbaby 3 days a week !
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:25:02 GMT -5
Posts: 5,913
Today's Mood: excellent
|
Post by Nazgul Girl on Nov 13, 2012 5:39:40 GMT -5
I'm actually getting my shingles vax today. It's just a weird coincidence because I hadn't even read this thread until just now. My former husband and my second husband both have gotten shingles and they had a rough time. I just turned 60 so it's the shingles vax for me. DH will get his shingles vax in Jan after he turns 60.
I remember looking at first husband's back almost 22 years ago, and seeing what looked like a chicken pox vesicle. I said, " 'Blort,' I think you might have the chicken pox, but that's impossible, because you already had the chicken pox, right ?! " So, Blort calls his mom, and sure enough, she said that he had had the chicken pox. But, he still had that vesicle on his back, and a couple more had popped up since he made the phone call. So, he's looking at his back with a hand mirror, and more vesicles were popping up. He calls our doctor and tells her that he thinks he has the chicken pox even though it's supposed to be impossible because he already had had it as a child.
He goes into the doctor's office, they tested the vesicle's liquid ( I guess they sent it to a lab ) ,and it came back that he had the chicken pox, all right. He got pretty sick and wasn't taking care of any dogs and cats for a couple of weeks. ( Veterinarian ).
So that's how we knew that you can TOO get the chicken pox twice, even though at the time, it went against standard medical theory. First husband had proven a couple of things about tuberculosis in cattle and HIV being passed in monkeys, so I figured that he was right about the chicken pox even though many still disbelieved/disagreed.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,865
|
Post by zibazinski on Nov 13, 2012 7:07:49 GMT -5
DF is one of those with a compromised immune system. It amazes me the people that will go out sick to a party or something they should stay home from and infect others. Just rude.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 13, 2012 8:31:38 GMT -5
DF is one of those with a compromised immune system. It amazes me the people that will go out sick to a party or something they should stay home from and infect others. Just rude. Most times Zib, they are contagious long before they start showing symptoms. They can be spreading virus for up to 2 weeks before they even know they are sick.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Nov 13, 2012 8:42:26 GMT -5
Well aware of this and don't understand why any mother would even let her baby around someone who is sick.THEY ARE NOT SICK! Many adults, including the parents and siblings, harbors bacteria that she has immunity to, but the child does not. They are called carriers, and there's not a damn thing you can do to get rid of them. I can isolate about 700 different species of bacteria from your mouth. Some are totally innocuous, some are opportunistic, and some are downright pathogens. Am I the only one that this reminds me of the Big Bang Theory episode where Penny comes back from Nebraska where he family was sick and Sheldon is convinced he is going to die because he doens't have any cornhusker anitbodies? If influenza wasn't contagious until after symptoms manifested themselves, it would have disappeared a long time ago. Between cave dwelling and tool building, Homo habilis would have figured out to kill the guy with the runny nose.It's so funy cause it's true.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 13, 2012 8:43:29 GMT -5
Herd immunity. Also, there are really some kids who have legitimate medical reasons NOT to be immunized- these kids rely on herd immunity entirely. I love the phrase herd immunity. I don't remember running across it before this thread. I know I couldn't enroll my kids in their dcp without submitting their medical records and a copy of their vaccination records. We do the standard run of vaccines, although DS is overdue for his 3 year well child visit so he's probably due.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 4:19:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 8:47:08 GMT -5
DS was overdue for his 3 year when I took him and he had to have 3 or 4 shots to makeup for ones he missed. Just so everyone knows, he did not develop Autism.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 13, 2012 8:51:30 GMT -5
lol Beer. I'm not worried. Our doc is out this week and next week isn't going to work either. And I need my yearly physical too and mammogram so I'll probably try to schedule everything for 1 day and find a sucker, er, volunteer to help me.
|
|
Pants
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 19:26:44 GMT -5
Posts: 7,579
|
Post by Pants on Nov 13, 2012 9:07:14 GMT -5
This thread amazes me for many reasons, but primarily because sometimes I think to myself, "Well, you can't disagree with a poster all of the time. You must have some views somewhere that align." And then an off-topic thread like this comes along, and as it turns out, no, I CAN disagree with completely everything someone believes.
We took my daughter to the pediatrician when she was 2 months for her checkup/shots, and the doctor was trying to explain why the vaccines were important, but if I was concerned we could space them out slightly, but it would be better... When I told her we were pro-vaccine, she said "Oh thank God." So many parents now are not vaccinating or using an "alternate" vaccination schedule that reduces the safety of the rest of us. I think it is reprehensible.
|
|