White guys and militias

[Tennesseer]

Feel free to join a militia steve if that's what will make you feel you 'belong'.

[zibazinski]

I don't want to join a militia but I'd like to go out in the woods and practice my shooting. Just not at people or animals.

[swamp]

A militia is like any other group. People hang out with like minded individuals.

[zibazinski]

Yes, but is there a stigma attached to the word militia? I know I think of things that aren't so hot when I hear the word.

[zibazinski]

I mean, I want to go out and shoot with people who also like to shoot. I'm not into wearing a white sheet unless it's Halloween.

[chiver78]

Oct 13, 2012 8:50:02 GMT -5 @bloomscuzzer said:

I am not saying white men need to join a militia to feel included, I am speculating they do join a militia for that reason. I think many people who join militias see the community around them changing ethnically. They don't like it. They see a fund raiser for LULAC or some other organization and realize there is nothing like that for them and look for something.

I think because of political correctness there is a double standard on race and that has led in part to people joining militias.

What part of that do you disagree with?

going back to your OP:

Oct 12, 2012 20:28:50 GMT -5 @bloomscuzzer said:

Black people got black power, the NAACP, rap.
Hispanics got Spanish, the immigrant thing, mexican food.
White guys got nothing. That's why they join militias. They want to belong to a group.

True, or stupid?

besides the ignorance I hear with the "Hispanics got Spanish, the immigrant thing, mexican food" line, none of the things you mention involve organizing into military-like groups and practicing drills and such for a possible uprising.

if a white guy wants to feel included in a political way, there's plenty of civil* ways to be involved. someone else mentioned the Tea Party.
*asterisk because the civility lately is somewhat debatable.

[zibazinski]

But the idea is there. When you hear militia you think skin heads out lurking and waiting for armageddon. At least I do. Maybe it's just me.

[zibazinski]

Geez, I like some rap, some Mexican food, and am very in favor of LEGAL immigration. I wouldn't be here without it. But I'm an old white female and conservative who likes to shoot. Where do I go?

[chiver78]

I think it's ignorant to assume that all Hispanics are immigrants - that non-Hispanics aren't, or that Hispanics might not be immigrants. not all Hispanics are Mexican, either.

and yes, you argued that nobody was able to argue against your view even when many posters were giving other options for a white guy to find a group to fit into. I would argue that a militia is NOT an ethnic group.

[zibazinski]

Well, I don't like to hear any language other than English spoken in this country but then I realize I go to other countries and although I try to speak some of their language, I'm not fluent, and also talk to my friends/family in my own language which may offend the people whose country I am visiting as well.

[Tennesseer]

Steve is confusing race with ethnicity.

[zibazinski]

Now I'm confused as well.

[zibazinski]

deleted by poster request.

-chiver mod

[Deleted]

How come joining the Country Club isn't option B?

[zibazinski]

I vote for that one, pool, tennis, golf. What's not to like? Well, the dues and the dress code.

[Nazgul Girl]

Steve, it's almost as if you want us ( me ) to like militias. Based on the history we've had with them in our state, they're not the Boy Scouts, they're troublemakers, have murdered people, and have been federally indicted for various crimes. So, sorry, I don't like them, and don't see any value to them. That's not an insult. That's my personal viewpoint.

[Nazgul Girl]

I'm talking about militias in my state. I'm sure that there are some very decent individuals in some of them. But one of the militias thought up one of the biggest murders in our country's history. Another militia was indicted in federal court for plotting to kill policemen. The third militia was investigated for hate propaganda against people of other races and religions. So, no, I don't think that the average militia ( at least in my area ) is a very wholesome organization.

[Phoenix84]

Chiver is right. There are militant groups of every race and creed. There's the black panthers, heck there's even a minority of militant feminists. I don't think militias are soely lower middle class white guys.

I'm having trouble following your arguments. I can understand some people may join militia groups for a sense of belonging or to be around like minded individuals, but I really don't think that's the only way for a lower middle class white person to get a sense of community. This is illustrated by the fact that most lower middle class white people are not part of any such group.

[Opti]

Oct 12, 2012 21:24:59 GMT -5 @bloomscuzzer said:

Oct 12, 2012 21:18:38 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Steve-Search the Southern Poverty Law Center site for all the information you need.

www.splcenter.org/

The southern poverty law center is one of the most biased groups out there. They were accused of fostering hate crimes against Christians awhile back.

Accused doesn't mean the accusation was true. I found a link and it looks like they want to blame that one shooting on the SPLC because they list organizations that actively discriminate against homosexuals. It appears one of the accusing organizations might have lobbied to make homosexuality a criminal offense.

atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/08/christian-groups-demand-that-subversive-southern-poverty-law-center-remove-them-from-hate-list-one-t.html

[Opti]

4. a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

the militias that you refer to in your OP are what's described by point #4. why do you feel that people need to pretend that they are military in order to feel included? what's wrong with finding friends of like minds to pursue hobbies?

Militias don't strike me as organizations that spend any time on culture unless it is to complain or make plans against cultures they don't like.

Some people join churches, service organizations, dart leagues whatever. It is true it is considered bad taste to have white only clubs but whites aren't homogeneous anymore than all spanish speaking people are in the US either. Maybe if whites are below a certain percentage in an area it should be OK to have a white only club if that's what people need to feel they can have their own tribe type group.

[Opti]

Maybe the thing is to just start white social groups and be OK with being called a bigot? Or you could make up a name that wouldn't attract many non-white members.
The What White Guys Like club or similar. White Culture Club, etc.

While the culture in America hews White it varies depending on region. Red neck culture is not going to be popular in Montana for instance and the South is different than the North.

[zibazinski]

I see your point. The hue and cry would be amazing if there was a miss white America or a NAAWP.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 13, 2012 10:36:38 GMT -5 @bloomscuzzer said:

Oct 13, 2012 10:14:16 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

Steve, it's almost as if you want us ( me ) to like militias. Based on the history we've had with them in our state, they're not the Boy Scouts, they're troublemakers, have murdered people, and have been federally indicted for various crimes. So, sorry, I don't like them, and don't see any value to them. That's not an insult. That's my personal viewpoint.

According to tennesseer's link, most militia members are hard working Americans who are worried about the direction the county is heading. There are going to be bad people doing nasty hateful things in any large enough group of people. Aren't some liberals pretty dishonest and crooked. Haven't some liberal politicians been federally indicted?

Let's look at the whole paragraph I provided in which you have simplistically summarized.

Contrary to popular belief, most militia members are hard-working, average Americans who are loyal to the United States, the Constitution, and the rights granted thereunder. However, there are also many who can accurately be described as right-wing extremists, terrorists or racists; sometimes... all three.

Presently there are over 441 militia groups active in the United States. By far the largest group is the Michigan Militia which claims membership of over 10,000 with units in nearly all of Michigan-s 88 counties.

Every militia is anti-government to some degree. Some, like the Michigan Militia, advocate armed resistance to federal authority. They see international trade agreements (like NAFTA) and peacekeeping operations involving US troops as evidence of a sinister international movement toward one world government.

That's quite a few militia members in Michigan alone.

Oh you may have a few New Black Panther party members who own guns. But you rarely see them in the news being accused and convicted of attempting to shoot or bomb officers of the law, judges and other local, state, and federal officials like you do with militias, right-wing extremists and skinheads.

So feel free to join a militia or right-wing extremist group. I am sure newbies are welcomed and encouraged to do the dirty jobs the leaders don't want on their hands. Prison orange may just be your color.

[Tennesseer]

"Aren't some liberals pretty dishonest and crooked. Haven't some liberal politicians been federally indicted?"

Federally indicted for what? Killing police officers? Attempting to blow up federal buildings (let alone Timothy McVeigh successfully blowing up a federal building). Blowing up abortion clinics or shooting and killing abortion providers? Heck-abortion is legal in our country. (Notice I didn't say 'my' country-this country belongs to all of us. Not just you and militia members.)

While there is the one man accused of shooting the security officer at the Family Research Council, there are countless incidents of right-wing extremism. Many convictions and others accused and on trial.

Who is buy up the majority of guns and rifles and why? Look it up.

[Tennesseer]

Seeing we are discussing militias, right-wing extremists and terrorists versus liberals, the NAACP, RAP music, Spanish speaking citizens (and Mexican food), and not the military, I think you know I was speaking of civilians when I mentioned guns and rifles.

[mmhmm]

If you want to join a militia, join one, steve. I'm not sure I understand why you're in here asking others about it. We aren't you. If that's the only way you can see to feel like you belong somewhere, join the militia of your choice. You might do some serious research into militias active in your area - what they do, what they've done, and what they plan to do. We really can't help you be you. You're going to have to do that yourself.

[Tennesseer]

"The Catholics had some pedophiles, better quit going to communion, you could end up in jail for raping a 10 year old boy."



The Catholic church had some priests who were pedophiles. But no Catholic was charged with raping a 10-year-old boy simply for taking communion.

[herman]

Steve,
Just a hunch here but I think it would be safer for you to join that bowling league you kept referring to earlier rather than a militia. JMO

[herman]

Steve,
Thank you for doubling my karma. I still think you would have more fun in a bowling league than a militia. I'm glad I talked you out of that. I haven't posted much over here lately but I used to post fairly often on the old MSN boards. It was much easier to hop around from board to board than it is with the proboards. I'm still trying to get used to the proboard forum.

[midjd]

I am telling you the truth when I say some white guys don't like the fact that there are groups devoted to blacks, to mexicans, to immigrants, to everyone it seems, but if a
white guy wants a group that is for whites he is called a bigot.

Because whites are still the racial majority in the US. Until fairly recently, US television/entertainment/culture was extremely anglocentric. This is why these other groups were formed - so they'd have some solidarity in an almost entirely white culture.