Here's a different kind of article on pedophilia

[Deleted]

One of the things the article says needs to be done is destigmitize pedophilia.

That is one thing that will more than likely not ever happen.. We will always move down a couple seats from the known pedophile.. Always. I don't hate those who suffer with the so-called demon. I could probably counsel them if I were counselor, but in all my sometimes upside-down humanity, I would always wonder if there is a silent victim in their grips somewhere out there..

It says that if a guy seeks counseling he is maybe going to be reported to authorities. *The article says being attracted to kids in inborn, there is nothing to change that. Of course one can, not act on those desires, but the desires stay there.

I do not believe the above highlighted statement, if inborn means the individual was born that way.. I believe pedophiles are created, so often, very soon after they are birthed into their worlds.. Not world, as in the generic sense of the word, but ones specific environment and how the psyche was formed by an abuse of some sort.. Possibly by extreme neglect, being molested themselves or some other type of hushed traumatic event(s) imposed on a child and that same child not knowing how to process their world.. The child can become stuck between their innocence and post-innocence world and try reliving both for the rest of their lives..

I believe something happened in the adult pedophile's life at a very young age.. I read the article and read how the person in the article says they were raised in a loving and caring home etc.. And maybe that is true.. Zooming out a bit further during the child's forming years may reveal someone/something else in their world, may have infected their personal being and now desirous thoughts.. Don't really really know.. But I would bet all the tea in China, though China's tea does not belong to me to give away.. If the person named in the article could (but won't because that might expose someone/thing else) unfold their deepest secrets of their first memories of why the attraction- And not the one named about sitting next to a kid and wanting to kiss him-.. Though the comment may be true, mind you. Upon deeper reflection, I believe a more definitive truth would surface of how this now, adult pedophilia thoughts were formed, and it would not, I believe again, stem from innate birthing..

Many times there is a fear to reflect on the past because answers may surface as to why one behaves the way they do in the now.. Trauma can be so great in forming years and can be buried so deep it is seemingly blocked out and forgotten.. That is..... Until an individual begins to reflect and asks questions of themselves.. "What is the matter with me?" Not only does this apply to the pedophilia, but anyone who's lived through a traumatic childhood of any other sort.

[Deleted]

Pedophilia should be one crime that is worthy of the death penalty depending on the circumstances. I think Jerry Sandusky should be the first one fried.

[Deleted]

If a person has those predilections and comes in before he ever hurts anyone and asks for chemical castration, or the equivalent, and NEVER hurts anyone, then I might have some sympathy/respect. There are lots of predilections out there. There is also a cycle in which many abusers were abused themselves, which complicates their development.

But you don't destigmatize pedophilia. You don't destigmatize rape because some people have natural tendencies towards darker sexual practices. You don't destigmatize crime. This is not about behavioral quirks, it is about criminal, vile criminal, actions. If it isn't stigmatized, then who gets help to prevent it? It has to be so stigmatized that if you have a predilection for it, and a conscience, you would be willing to cut off your own penis rather than hurt a child.

What I think should lose its stigma completely is being one of the abused. We should so erase the stigma of being the victim, that those kids come forward before it progresses, and get the help they need, to not let it cycle forward.

[midjd]

But you don't destigmatize pedophilia. You don't destigmatize rape because some people have natural tendencies towards darker sexual practices. You don't destigmatize crime. This is not about behavioral quirks, it is about criminal, vile criminal, actions. If it isn't stigmatized, then who gets help to prevent it? It has to be so stigmatized that if you have a predilection for it, and a conscience, you would be willing to cut off your own penis rather than hurt a child.

[Phoenix84]

You can't "destigmatize" pedophllia. Doing so would be like destigmatizing bank robbery or murder.

However, if someone feels those urges and seeks treatment, more power to them. Assuming the person hasn't done anything, I don't think it should be reported to the authorities. Besides, if you haven't done anything, what are they going to do to you? The most they can do is keep an eye on you.

As we talked about on the thread about the guy plotting to kill his wife because he was picked on as a kid, your past is no excuse for harming others.

[midjd]

I agree with Oped's statement that pedophilia should be so stigmatized that decent people would be WILLING to be castrated rather than hurt a child. I don't think these people necessarily SHOULD be castrated, or even reported to the authorities if they seek treatment. But they should be willing to undergo that process if the only alternative is harming someone else.*

In my understanding, a psychologist or medical professional can only report patient confidences if there is imminent danger present. Unless a patient says "I'm going to go molest my neighbor as soon as I leave here," it's unlikely their treatment provider will report them. So I don't know how much the stigma contributes to a reluctance to seek treatment, and I don't think destigmatizing pedophilia will result in hordes of potential pedophiles rushing in for treatment.

*Are we attempting to categorize pedophilia as a sexual preference, or a sexual addiction? Because if it's the former, I have a lot less sympathy. Barring addiction cases, adults are capable of controlling their sexual urges. If someone is incapable of that and doesn't attempt to seek treatment, why shouldn't their behavior carry a stigma?

[Phoenix84]

MidJD is right, there are patient confidentially laws that medical providers must adhere to. Unless there's an immediate danger, the doctor or psychologist would have a lawsuit on their hands if they divulged patient history.

I would personally just off myself if I had pedophillia urgers and couldn't control them. That's better than harming someone else.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, I don't understand how, if you destigmatize the thoughts, you will get more people to try to stop their behavior?

If you want to destigmatize bondage fantasies, fine... so long as it occurs between two concenting adults, I don't care if whips and chains lose their stigma. But sex with children SHOULD be thought of as untenable. There is NO legitimate outlet for that type of predeliction. Disapproval and distaste are appropriate and should be maintained, with vigor.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

But sex with children SHOULD be thought of as untenable. There is NO legitimate outlet for that type of predeliction. Disapproval and distaste are appropriate and should be maintained, with vigor.



It should not be destigmatized because that paves the way for people to say it is "normal" to want to have sex with children because they are born that way. They can't help themselves.

If there isn't a stigma associated with it then why would you think you need help? It should be stigmatized so people think "Holy crap I am having really really bad unacceptable thoughts here".

Now if they want to try to create therapy programs to intervene befoer a child is hurt that is different. I'd be all for catching these people before they harm a single child.

[Deleted]

Who does it benefit if it society says those thoughts are appropriate? Why would someone seek treatment if there was not stigma?

What you might be saying is that seeking treatment for pedophelia should not be stigmatized? ... And this is done by destigmatizing mental health services all around, beause as others have said NO ONE has to know WHY you are seeking treatment. And therapists are not allowed to tell your secrets unless there is possible immediate harm.

[midjd]

I don't think that's the consensus, but I think Drama hit the nail on the head - if you take away the stigma of pedophiliac thoughts, who is going to seek treatment? Without that "wow, this is really f***ed up" reaction, no pedophile is going to see him or herself as needing treatment.

If you're talking about the stigma associated with mental health treatment in general, that's different.

[milee]

Sept 25, 2012 9:23:10 GMT -5 @bloomscuzzer said:

Is the general consensus, 'pedophiles are terrible, end of discussion'?

I thought the article interesting.

Not necessarily. As you mentioned, it's an incredibly complex issue and so heavily influenced by emotions that some of us aren't sure how to respond. Although it's good to be hopeful and look for advances, it's also reasonable to be desperately worried that any proposed changes might have an adverse effect - and the results are just awful to contemplate.

So some of us are just reading and thinking.

[Deleted]

Cret, looking back at this comment of yours "If your sex drive was pointed at something wicked, wouldn't you want to be able to freely talk to therapists and find solutions ..."

If you destigmatize it, then it would no longer be considered something wicked, and thus why would someone go to a therapist if they did not have wicked thoughts ... What you want to destigmatize is the therapy, not the thoughts.

[Reckless Roselia]

The article says being attracted to kids in inborn, there is nothing to change that.

Oh so it's all in the genetic makeup?

[midjd]

Well are we discussing people who have bad thoughts but never act on them, or reformed pedophiles, or both?

I think someone who has already molested a couple of kids is going to be just as stigmatized as a recovering alcoholic who killed someone in a car accident, and justifiably so for both. While someone who sought treatment before engaging in any behavior probably won't be subject to the same kind of stigma - comparable to a recovering alcoholic whose actions never harmed anyone.

[Deleted]

Everyone should always think that having sex with children is wrong. I don't think the article is saying that pedophilia should not be destigmatized; but seeking treatment because you have a predilection towards it should be.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Destigmatize mental health treatment I am all for.

I however would not trust a "recovering" pedophile to be with my children, especially alone. Anymore that I would trust my formally pain pill addicted husband alone with a bottle of vicodin.

Just because someone is getting treatment doesn't mean the urges aren't there anymore and that they can be put in front of whatever tempts them.

I don't stigmatize my husband's addiction by refusing to have pain pills in the household for any reason. It's part of controlling his addiction. He is not insulted, he is not angry. He knows it's asking for it if we have pain pills in the household.

If a recovering pedophile could not understand why I do not want them around children and gets angry at me, then that person isn't serious about recognizing this is something that they cannot "control" and isn't really interesred in recovering.

[Opti]

Sept 25, 2012 8:18:48 GMT -5 @bloomscuzzer said:

Sept 25, 2012 8:06:36 GMT -5 midjd said:

You surprise me with this. If your sex drive was pointed at something wicked, wouldn't you want to be able to freely talk to therapists and find solutions that protected others from your desires, but also helped you to live a decent life? If castration is the only solution and you can't arrest people for what they desire, then you are left with dealing with sexually abused kids. Because most men are not going to ask for castration, no matter what they think.

I was molested when I was a kid. It would have been nice if he had of asked for and received some kind of help before and maybe the thing not happen. Shoot him in the head or whatever one wants after the fact doesn't change history. Ther is still the abused kid.

The article defines pedophilia as the thought not the act. I am sure no one thinks the act is okay or justified by any thing. The article says the desire is not chosen but inherent. The act is chosen. Or that is how I read it.

Asking for help should be encouraged and perhaps studies on how pedophiles are created and whether they can be imprinted to a healthier sex preferences.

[Deleted]

No way no how do I think someone "afflicted" by this should be near kids! However, if they admit to having these urges and have never acted on them they should be able to seek treatment without being put on a sex offender list.

[swamp]

based on my experiences at work, some people are pedophiles because they are attracted to children. some are pedophiles because they are sick fuckers on a power trip who get off on hurting kids.

I would think that a person who recognizes that sex with kids is wrong and seeking help for it should be given teh support they need.

I think the sick fuckers who hurt kids belong in jail.

[swamp]

Sept 25, 2012 10:09:51 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

No way no how do I think someone "afflicted" by this should be near kids! However, if they admit to having these urges and have never acted on them they should be able to seek treatment without being put on a sex offender list.

[Deleted]

thank you for putting my thoughts into words, swamp!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'm not a therapist but as far as I know they only report if you have directly said you are going to harm yourself or others. I don't think they report you for having thoughts.

If you wanted to create a special branch of trained therapists for this topic that would not be a bad idea. Then they could seek out the specific type of therapist they need. They have addiction counseling, relapse counseling, DV counseling, children's therapists etc. I don't see why you couldn't make a pedophilia counseling speciality.

Kudos to whoever would choose that speciality. You'd have to have a stomach and heart of steel to make it through those sessions.

[Loopdilou]

We do not have a thought police.. yet. Thoughts are allowed, actions are not. These individuals should not have to fear their life being ruined because they are seeking help controlling their thoughts.

[swamp]

Sept 25, 2012 10:15:36 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

We do not have a thought police.. yet. Thoughts are allowed, actions are not. These individuals should not have to fear their life being ruined because they are seeking help controlling their thoughts.

But we do.

I know of several instances where a man disclosed he was having "improper" thoughts about a step daughter, disclosed it during counseling sessions, CPS was called, abuse/neglect charges brought in family court. The charges were never founded, but they still went through hell.

One guy lost his job as a state employee.

**but if my DH disclosed he was having thoughts about a child, I'd leave him. Maybe I'm a hypocrite?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

A huge part of the problem I see is how do you avoid kids? It's fairly easy for my husband to avoid pain pills. It can be fairly simple for an alcoholic to avoid alcohol, but how do you avoid kids?

DH can't have just one pain pill, an alcoholic cannot have just one beer, a meth addict can't have just one hit. I'd assume this would work the same way.


but if my DH disclosed he was having thoughts about a child, I'd leave him. Maybe I'm a hypocrite

I don't think so. I'd leave DH and take Gwen with me. Just as I don't let him be around pain pills I wouldn't allow him to be with Gwen if he was having impure thoughts about children.

He wants to get treatment for it that is fine, but I am not going to potentially enable him by continuing to let our kid live with him.

[mmhmm]

There are, currently, therapists who specialize in treating pedophilia. These will be most easily found in larger cities, I'm sure. While we will never remove the stigma from this aberration, and treatment can be long, involved and difficult, there is treatment available and therapists are not allowed to report people seeking treatment who have not committed a crime and don't have plans to commit a crime. The stigma comes from inside the pedophile. The pedophile knows what he's thinking is wrong and, therefore, stigmatizes him/herself. This is what keeps such people from getting help. They don't want this horrible thing to be true about them, and anyone should be able to understand that. Unfortunately, for some, it is their reality and they must deal with it. Too many deal with it by giving into their urges and children suffer the consequences of their choices. While I'm sorry such people have to deal with this issue, I'm a lot more concerned about the child(ren) who, innocently, pay the price for it.

[justme]

Sept 25, 2012 8:40:21 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

MidJD is right, there are patient confidentially laws that medical providers must adhere to. Unless there's an immediate danger, the doctor or psychologist would have a lawsuit on their hands if they divulged patient history.

I would personally just off myself if I had pedophillia urgers and couldn't control them. That's better than harming someone else.

I'm at work, and his site is def NSFW so I can't go find the link, but earlier this year Dan Savage has his advice column on this (the title had something to do with gold star) and the way US therapists handle pedophiles was discussed and compared to other countries. Again I can't remember everything, but I do know they mentioned how hard it is to find a therapist in this country to treat that (especially without seething in judgement) and how those people are more likely to reported here than other countries (on the belief that they are lying or won't be able to control themselves).

ETA The March 7 column - found it on my phone.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2012 7:13:27 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Pedophilia should be one crime that is worthy of the death penalty depending on the circumstances. I think Jerry Sandusky should be the first one fried.

I agree that if you sexually abuse a child, you should fry. Pedophilia, however, is a medical/psychological diagnosis and should not be used legally.

[doxieluvr]

I vote shoot them in the head...