973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 12, 2012 9:36:26 GMT -5
I'm not old enough to get SS or Medicare!
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Sept 12, 2012 9:37:29 GMT -5
DT, you are only middle-aged. Awww.....thanks, Blue! Now back to work so I can be kept in the manner to which I have become accustomed (at least until Paul Ryan, et al. takes that away).
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ontrack
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Post by ontrack on Sept 12, 2012 9:39:17 GMT -5
Well, let's see. In the next couple of years, I am probably going to become a single parent intentionally, without having sex with anyone. Will I be a whore or a harlot? I will be doing this with the complete support and encouragement of my family (I was considering adoption; my family convinced me that it would be a waste to not have a child of my own). Does that make all of them whores too? Haven't read everything but this really struck me. You do realize that if you adopt the children would be yours? Why would it be a waste unless they were related to you biologically?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 9:39:25 GMT -5
My DD actually said to me how lucky she was to not have someone like her friends mother who paraded all her lovers in and out of their lives. It sets a bad example. In 27 years, I met two men my mother dated and neither spent the night. Your personal experience is anecdotal, not data. It is not everyone, nor do you have evidence if your experience is the norm, or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 9:39:29 GMT -5
Generalizations like this without documented facts to back them up just are wrong. You may or may not be correct but to just pass this statement off as fact is a prime example of what's wrong with our politics today.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 9:41:36 GMT -5
My DD actually said to me how lucky she was to not have someone like her friends mother who paraded all her lovers in and out of their lives. It sets a bad example. In 27 years, I met two men my mother dated and neither spent the night. Your personal experience is anecdotal, not data. It is not everyone, nor do you have evidence if your experience is the norm, or not. But don't you love how she thinks she is the exception instead of the friends mom?
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Sept 12, 2012 9:42:10 GMT -5
HK, we are having an emotional argument, no need for facts.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 12, 2012 9:50:00 GMT -5
It isn't easy to adopt a child. If you can have your own, why not? It saves a child for someone who can't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 9:51:33 GMT -5
Well, let's see. In the next couple of years, I am probably going to become a single parent intentionally, without having sex with anyone. Will I be a whore or a harlot? I will be doing this with the complete support and encouragement of my family (I was considering adoption; my family convinced me that it would be a waste to not have a child of my own). Does that make all of them whores too? Haven't read everything but this really struck me. You do realize that if you adopt the children would be yours? Why would it be a waste unless they were related to you biologically? I took it as it would be a waste for her not to pass on her genes.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 9:52:50 GMT -5
It isn't easy to adopt a child. If you can have your own, why not? It saves a child for someone who can't. I dunno what you know about adoption, but we're not at the point where we need to worry about "saving children for someone who can't have them"...the supply is exponentially larger than the demand.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 12, 2012 9:53:16 GMT -5
That may be what her family thought. I took it as saving a baby for another who can't procreate.
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ontrack
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Post by ontrack on Sept 12, 2012 9:54:01 GMT -5
And if it's about the expense of adoption, IVF is pretty damn expensive too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 9:55:39 GMT -5
HK, we are having an emotional argument, no need for facts. Ah, my bad. Continue.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 12, 2012 9:57:17 GMT -5
Maybe they thought the adoption proces would be too long/difficult for her. I don't know much but what are the odds of a single woman being approved to adopt a kid?
I don't have to go thru a process to have a baby of my own, we just have sex without protection and tada, kid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 9:59:25 GMT -5
In 27 years, I met two men my mother dated and neither spent the night. Your personal experience is anecdotal, not data. It is not everyone, nor do you have evidence if your experience is the norm, or not. But don't you love how she thinks she is the exception instead of the friends mom?Actually, I don't care. Since I have not seen the data, I don't know which group is normal or the exception. Until I see it, I am not bothering getting worked up. My mom gave me a better life than many two parent family, but yes she had her own problem. And for the record, I am married and seeing how she had to work as a single parent was part of why I refused to have a kid without a partner.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 12, 2012 9:59:26 GMT -5
It isn't easy to adopt a child. If you can have your own, why not? It saves a child for someone who can't. I dunno what you know about adoption, but we're not at the point where we need to worry about "saving children for someone who can't have them"...the supply is exponentially larger than the demand. Me personally I would have adopted an older child. Babies are always in high demand for adoption, but there are seas of older kids hanging around in foster care waiting to be adopted. Nothing so special about my genes that they need to be passed on to the next generation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 9:59:26 GMT -5
Well, let's see. In the next couple of years, I am probably going to become a single parent intentionally, without having sex with anyone. Will I be a whore or a harlot? I will be doing this with the complete support and encouragement of my family (I was considering adoption; my family convinced me that it would be a waste to not have a child of my own). Does that make all of them whores too? Haven't read everything but this really struck me. You do realize that if you adopt the children would be yours? Why would it be a waste unless they were related to you biologically? My family only meant that it would be a waste to not pass on my genes. They have nothing against adoption (my cousin is adopted but most definitely belongs to us and anyone who claimed otherwise would be in a world of hurt). They said it mainly so that I would understand that they had no problems with me getting pregnant on my own, they wanted me to have the choice, and that they would encourage and respect any choice I made.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 10:03:53 GMT -5
I think I read recently that the majority of children born to women under 30 have unmarried mothers. The profile of unwed mothers in the U.S. is quite a bit different than unwed mothers in other countries. In the U.S. unwed mothers who give birth while in a relationship are usually single/in a different relationship by the time the kid is 5 or 6. They are also more likely to live in poverty and to be uneducated. There have been quite a few books recently on the topic because it's indicative of how social/economic profiles are radically diverging in the U.S. An interesting pattern over the last four decades is that inequality has grown much faster for households with children than it has for households over all — an indication that changes in family structure (as opposed to wages and employment alone) have increased inequality. economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/economic-inequality-and-the-changing-family/ About 41 percent of births in the United States occur outside marriage, up sharply from 17 percent three decades ago. But equally sharp are the educational divides, according to an analysis by Child Trends, a Washington research group. Less than 10 percent of the births to college-educated women occur outside marriage, while for women with high school degrees or less the figure is nearly 60 percent.
Long concentrated among minorities, motherhood outside marriage now varies by class about as much as it does by race. It is growing fastest in the lower reaches of the white middle class — among women like Ms. Schairer who have some postsecondary schooling but no four-year degree.
While many children of single mothers flourish (two of the last three presidents had mothers who were single during part of their childhood), a large body of research shows that they are more likely than similar children with married parents to experience childhood poverty, act up in class, become teenage parents and drop out of school.
Sara McLanahan, a Princeton sociologist, warns that family structure increasingly consigns children to “diverging destinies.”
Married couples are having children later than they used to, divorcing less and investing heavily in parenting time. By contrast, a growing share of single mothers have never married, and many have children with more than one man. www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/two-classes-in-america-divided-by-i-do.html?_r=1&ref=usFamilies with only one parent need a lot more support from the government. In European countries the social safety net developed before the growth of single motherhood. It's the opposite here and that's why I think there is so much pushback against it.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 12, 2012 10:03:59 GMT -5
And if it's about the expense of adoption, IVF is pretty damn expensive too. I always heard adoption was around $40k and IVF was more like $18k or less for one round. Plus unless there's a fertility issue there's no need to go the route of IVF, there's insemination (at home or through a Drs office) and it's infinitely cheaper.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 12, 2012 10:08:53 GMT -5
Well, let's see. In the next couple of years, I am probably going to become a single parent intentionally, without having sex with anyone. Will I be a whore or a harlot? ---------------- You'll be a whorelot, clearly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 10:11:47 GMT -5
And if it's about the expense of adoption, IVF is pretty damn expensive too. I always heard adoption was around $40k and IVF was more like $18k or less for one round. Plus unless there's a fertility issue there's no need to go the route of IVF, there's insemination (at home or through a Drs office) and it's infinitely cheaper. Not if you do a public adoption. Here (Canada) everything is paid for if you adopt a child through CAS. I've heard it is the same in the States with your equivalent agency.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 12, 2012 10:12:45 GMT -5
No hoops, it is only socially acceptable to those without morals. ROTFLMAO! In other words, people like Britney Spears and Kim Kardashian have morals because they have a piece (or collection) of papers. A woman who chooses to keep her baby has none.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 12, 2012 10:15:22 GMT -5
She's an exception. Most are using the system. My cousin also had a baby out of wedlock because she got into her early thirties and wanted a child. She had a job and didn't use any taxpayer money, either. Few years later she met and married someone and had another child by him. It can work out of course. -------------------- About half the women I know had children out of wedlock. None "used the system". They're educated women who work.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 12, 2012 10:18:46 GMT -5
I always heard adoption was around $40k and IVF was more like $18k or less for one round. Plus unless there's a fertility issue there's no need to go the route of IVF, there's insemination (at home or through a Drs office) and it's infinitely cheaper. Not if you do a public adoption. Here (Canada) everything is paid for if you adopt a child through CAS. I've heard it is the same in the States with your equivalent agency. I'm guessing CAS is Canada's foster system? Yes, it's low cost here (I know it's not free to get certified to foster, so I'd count that), but if you want an infant/toddler I've heard it's very hard to get one through that system. (Though I've also heard it's hard for a single mom to get chosen through private adoption too.)
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 12, 2012 10:23:09 GMT -5
My cousin's daughter got pregnant at 17. Being from a religious background, abortion was not an option. --------------- I'm not following. Being from a religious background, premarital sex was an option but abortion wasn't?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 10:24:12 GMT -5
Not if you do a public adoption. Here (Canada) everything is paid for if you adopt a child through CAS. I've heard it is the same in the States with your equivalent agency. I'm guessing CAS is Canada's foster system? Yes, it's low cost here (I know it's not free to get certified to foster, so I'd count that), but if you want an infant/toddler I've heard it's very hard to get one through that system. (Though I've also heard it's hard for a single mom to get chosen through private adoption too.) It might take some time but it's not hard per se. What usually happens is you foster a baby that is taken at birth or soon after and then ride out the process for the child becoming a crown ward and adopting. It bad for those that are impatient to have everything "official" but I can think of worse things than having extra support both physically and financially when you have a newborn.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 12, 2012 10:30:46 GMT -5
At the corner of the USA Today today, my husband pointed out an interesting statistic. 40% of children are born to unwed moms today. Both of us are pretty liberal, but we were really stunned. He said it was all of those independent women. I said it was all those loser dads. Your opinion? While the chart does not indicate how many of those never married have children, the rate of never married is climbing higher while the number of married is sinking lowe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 10:34:02 GMT -5
My cousin's daughter got pregnant at 17. Being from a religious background, abortion was not an option. --------------- I'm not following. Being from a religious background, premarital sex was an option but abortion wasn't?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 12, 2012 10:35:16 GMT -5
Well this kind of goes along with the discussion about women out earning their husbands.
Used to be women needed men to provide financially for them and their children. Now not so much.
Used to be an unmarried woman was destined to be childless, as well, regardless of her financial circumstances. Now not so much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 10:37:37 GMT -5
And if it's about the expense of adoption, IVF is pretty damn expensive too. She did not mention having fertility issues and sperm is pretty cheap compared to adoption costs
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