Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 22:20:56 GMT -5
At the corner of the USA Today today, my husband pointed out an interesting statistic. 40% of children are born to unwed moms today.
Both of us are pretty liberal, but we were really stunned.
He said it was all of those independent women.
I said it was all those loser dads.
Your opinion?
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Sept 11, 2012 22:23:41 GMT -5
How bad is it that I snorted at you and your DH's comments? It sounds like something DH and I would say to each other! I think the truth is probably in the middle and maybe something totally different all together.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 11, 2012 22:24:52 GMT -5
what about those committed, but unmarried couples? or what about births for couples in states that don't recognize same-sex marriage (surrogate or sperm donor)? I'd say you're both right, but you're also both missing a lot of people in your sample sets.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 11, 2012 22:26:04 GMT -5
I'm not sure how "loser dads" equate to unwed mothers. I would think loser dads comes after the baby is already born no? Guess I'm not sure how someone being either a great dad or a horrible dad equates to how many children are born to unwed mothers.
I'm not sure I'd say it's about independent women though either. I think a LOT of people simply don't care much about getting married. And they're definitely in no hurry just because the woman got pregnant. I do think it would be more interesting to see how many are born to single mothers, as opposed to simply unwed ones.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Sept 11, 2012 22:27:32 GMT -5
It has lost the stigma. I believe in some populations it is the majority now.
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 11, 2012 22:29:25 GMT -5
I'm with Chiver. Unwed does not equal single.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Sept 11, 2012 22:36:44 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 22:49:21 GMT -5
My mother was a single mom, she wanted a kid, my father did not (he wanted her to have an abotion). She left without putting his name on the birth certificate. And yes, she did it because she did not "need a man" and she "could do it all herself", oh and she wanted someone to love her unconditional (FYI she was 30 when I was born). My father had a bad father and felt he would not be a good dad. I respect him a lot more for it.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 11, 2012 22:54:26 GMT -5
what about those committed, but unmarried couples? How do you define a committed couple? I've watched a few "committed" couples on my birth board (my LO is 4 months old) split up. I personally would have called the couples dating, and not committed. They also split up, immediately, when they "just don't feel in love" anymore. If you'd ask them if they believe they are in a committed relationship, they would say "yes," but I think that these folks don't understand the difference between infatuation and love. They think that once the new relationship high is gone, they are no longer in love, and it's time to move on. On another finance board and in real life, I've seen what I call committed unmarried couples. While they aren't wed, they make sure all their legal documents (wills, powers of attorney, beneficiaries) are airtight and use a lawyer to cover themselves when large purchases are made, like buying a house together. These folks are also the type to understand that one does not make major life decisions based on their emotional state for the day and they work through their problems. ETA: On my birth board, there was an 18 yo who was having unprotected sex with her boyfriend. They weren't committed, and she admitted she had made a rather irresponsible decision to put herself in the position of having a baby. I think it's some combination of independent women, unwed but in a stable relationship women, and women that are just plain dumb.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 22:58:30 GMT -5
My first was born when I was single (eta: but 'together') We got married when we had #2, but mainly for health insurance. I never needed to be married...
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 11, 2012 23:07:26 GMT -5
Your opinion?
My cousin's daughter got pregnant at 17. Being from a religious background, abortion was not an option. The Religious Right have lessened the stigma of unwed motherhood and glorified young women who keep and raise their babies.
Personally, it does surprise me (and I think I'm pretty liberal). I've been a single mother and it is much more difficult that it is made out to be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 23:57:02 GMT -5
I think there are more unwed moms and they aren't just having one child nowadays but multiple kids. Just seems to be the new norm.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Sept 12, 2012 0:29:25 GMT -5
Marriage is becoming less and less important to people. I'd still be an unwed mom if I could be
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 12, 2012 1:38:44 GMT -5
60% of children in Quebec are born out of wedlock, but many of them are to committed couples. Marriage has fallen out of favour here. There is absolutely no stigma in such births.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 3:09:48 GMT -5
I was an unwed mother. Getting married wasn't important to me, but marriage was important to my husband so I did it for him. Of course I am glad that I did now because I wouldn't have received the same benefits that I have now if I hadn't.
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Post by dom on Sept 12, 2012 4:54:38 GMT -5
Its probably better to be on your own and unhappy, than with a partner who may compound the issue.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Sept 12, 2012 6:48:41 GMT -5
Chiver is wrong, that attitude is what is causing a lot of bastards! Committed but unwed, is just a cop out and fraud. If you are committed, get hitched. That really shows committed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 6:51:18 GMT -5
What rukh said, a friend's teen recently had a baby. There were several friends of her mom who skipped the shower, didn't go see baby because they didn't want to 'encourage the behavior' or 'reward' the new mother... I'm like, hey, I'm probably the only one here who would have been ok with her deciding to not have a baby... But it's here now, can't undo, and babies deserve to be celebrated and new moms, especially young ones don't benefit from isolation, they need support to be good moms... Who does it benefit to be snarky about the circumstances? But I think the idea that stigma is gone is mistaken.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 6:59:27 GMT -5
Lots of married people also split up when they 'just don't feel in love anymore' ... Says the girl with 4 stepmothers... I never thought married was synonymous with commitment... Not with our divorce rates...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 12, 2012 7:08:22 GMT -5
It is because we have replaced our shame based religion with math, and now poor women can work through the words problems and realize how much more government assistance they will receive if they do not get married.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 12, 2012 7:50:48 GMT -5
I believe that teenage pregnancy rates have plummeted while births to single older moms have skyrocketed. If someone over 30 wants to have a baby but hasn't found "Mr. Right" yet, who am I to hassle her about it?
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ontrack
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Post by ontrack on Sept 12, 2012 8:05:51 GMT -5
Unwed motherhood is tied to age and education level. First time mothers who are college educated and over 30 are much more likely to be married. It's also highly correlated to economic status. It seems lower class women have given up trying to get married before having kids because their pool of marriagable partners is so lacking. There was a very interesting article in the NYT about this I'll see if I can dig up...
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 12, 2012 8:10:33 GMT -5
Sorry, posted on wrong thread.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Sept 12, 2012 8:11:05 GMT -5
"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" best sums up "committed" relationships. Too many unwed mothers don't want to miss out on being moms, but don't care about depriving their kids of a dad. Selfish and short sighted.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 8:11:12 GMT -5
::I've watched a few "committed" couples on my birth board (my LO is 4 months old) split up. I personally would have called the couples dating, and not committed. They also split up, immediately, when they "just don't feel in love" anymore. If you'd ask them if they believe they are in a committed relationship, they would say "yes," but I think that these folks don't understand the difference between infatuation and love. They think that once the new relationship high is gone, they are no longer in love, and it's time to move on.::
How is this any different than the current state of marriage to most people?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 12, 2012 8:11:52 GMT -5
"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" best sums up "committed" relationships. Too many unwed mothers don't want to miss out on being moms, but don't care about depriving their kids of a dad. Selfish and short sighted. unmarried mom doesn't mean the dad isn't involved in the kid's life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 8:11:59 GMT -5
Quite a few of my friends have reached a certain age without finding their life mate. They aren't going to let that stop them from reproducing. They have good jobs and good supports.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 8:12:12 GMT -5
"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" best sums up "committed" relationships. Too many unwed mothers don't want to miss out on being moms, but don't care about depriving their kids of a dad. Selfish and short sighted. Kids aren't automatically deprived of a dad because their parents aren't married. If that was the concern then no one should have kids given the current divorce rate.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 12, 2012 8:12:23 GMT -5
::I've watched a few "committed" couples on my birth board (my LO is 4 months old) split up. I personally would have called the couples dating, and not committed. They also split up, immediately, when they "just don't feel in love" anymore. If you'd ask them if they believe they are in a committed relationship, they would say "yes," but I think that these folks don't understand the difference between infatuation and love. They think that once the new relationship high is gone, they are no longer in love, and it's time to move on.:: How is this any different than the current state of marriage to most people? crap, I'm agreeing with Hoops again.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Sept 12, 2012 8:13:14 GMT -5
Hoops, the folks don't realize that love evolves with the relationship. The hormones don't keep raging forever.
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