djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 18:36:22 GMT -5
do you feel obligated to vote for him/her?
do you do so anyway?
if so, WHY?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 18:37:04 GMT -5
i have never held my nose and voted for someone i didn't like IN MY LIFE. but it seems like this is something most people do, and i don't get it.
why would anyone do that? can you please explain it to me?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 4, 2012 18:38:48 GMT -5
I can't help ya, DJ. I don't do it, either.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 18:40:04 GMT -5
i am seriously puzzled. is this out of some sense of primary jingoism? kind of like what people feel for losing sports franchises?
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Sept 4, 2012 18:41:18 GMT -5
Clint Eastwood
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Sept 4, 2012 18:50:17 GMT -5
Yah, I don't get it either. I disagree with a number of Obama's policies, but not so many that I think he's a bad president. There have been candidates that I agreed with policy wise, but found reprehensible in character - I won't vote for them in that case.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 18:54:11 GMT -5
how do we let you go, b2r?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 18:54:59 GMT -5
You need to delete the "if" in the title to be more current. done.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 18:57:26 GMT -5
Yah, I don't get it either. I disagree with a number of Obama's policies, but not so many that I think he's a bad president. There have been candidates that I agreed with policy wise, but found reprehensible in character - I won't vote for them in that case. in my case, Obama never promised to be a non-interventionist. that is what i need to hear from a candidate. and i need to believe it. Obama will never say that, and if he did, i wouldn't believe it. Romney says pretty much the opposite, and his every gesture tells me that he is not going to be that guy. why should i vote for someone who takes positions that i DETEST?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:01:59 GMT -5
in short, i think "party loyalty" is totally counterproductive. it is a GUARANTEE that we will ALWAYS get shitty candidates.
what is funny is that we seem more comfortable complaining about that than doing the one thing that would change it- even though it is as simple as marking another box on a ballot. no money. no real effort. just a choice. we choose badly. we get what we deserve.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Sept 4, 2012 19:05:59 GMT -5
Agreed.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:10:47 GMT -5
thanks loop, but i am still feeling pretty lonesome today.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Sept 4, 2012 19:12:27 GMT -5
thanks loop, but i am still feeling pretty lonesome today. Lonesome? Yah, suppose it's tough being in the minority
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 4, 2012 19:14:31 GMT -5
Dj, so who DO you vote for?
Lena
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 4, 2012 19:14:44 GMT -5
Well, normally, your choices will end up between a douche and turd sandwich so just pick the one that is closet to your views, and normally that will be your party.
The other option is not voting, and then you are just saying both candidates are the same , but almost always one candidate will be 'better' than the other for most people.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Sept 4, 2012 19:16:10 GMT -5
Why on earth would you vote for either a douche or a turd basket though? The least you could do is not vote for either.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 4, 2012 19:20:52 GMT -5
Why on earth would you vote for either a douche or a turd basket though? The least you could do is not vote for either. Why wouldn't you vote for the one that is closest to your views? But of course if both are equally far, then don't vote for either. But I suspect for people that are in a party, the candidate from there party will be closer than the other candidate. Your vote is not an endorsement for any particular view a candidate holds, it just says I like candidate A at least 1% more than candidate B. I don't like our party system at all, but I don't not voting will change that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:21:08 GMT -5
Well, normally, your choices will end up between a douche and turd sandwich so just pick the one that is closet to your views, and normally that will be your party. The other option is not voting, and then you are just saying both candidates are the same , but almost always one candidate will be 'better' than the other for most people. see, the second statement doesn't actually follow logically from the first. let's say that EVERYONE thinks that it is douche and turd sandwich. but after searching around, they find candidate C for COOL. now, instead of voting for D or TS, they can vote for C, and they ALL do. what is the logical outcome?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:21:52 GMT -5
Why on earth would you vote for either a douche or a turd basket though? The least you could do is not vote for either. Why wouldn't you vote for the one that is closest to your views? But of course if both are equally far, then don't vote for either. But I suspect for people that are in a party, the candidate from there party will be closer than the other candidate. Your vote is not an endorsement for any particular view a candidate holds, it just says I like candidate A at least 1% more than candidate B. I don't like our party system at all, but I don't not voting will change that. i don't think that loop was suggesting not to vote.
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TonyTiger
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Post by TonyTiger on Sept 4, 2012 19:22:07 GMT -5
$hitty candidates? Which one? ;D
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 4, 2012 19:23:37 GMT -5
Well, normally, your choices will end up between a douche and turd sandwich so just pick the one that is closet to your views, and normally that will be your party. The other option is not voting, and then you are just saying both candidates are the same , but almost always one candidate will be 'better' than the other for most people. see, the second statement doesn't actually follow logically from the first. let's say that EVERYONE thinks that it is douche and turd sandwich. but after searching around, they find candidate C for COOL. now, instead of voting for D or TS, they can vote for C, and they ALL do. what is the logical outcome?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:24:08 GMT -5
Dj, so who DO you vote for? Lena right now, it is Gary Johnson, unless i find someone better, which is always possible. last election, i was going to vote for the Libertarian candidate, Barr if i remember right, right up until election, but i switched to yet another third party candidate when i found out, doing some last minute research, that he didn't support my perspective on a key issue.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:24:53 GMT -5
see, the second statement doesn't actually follow logically from the first. let's say that EVERYONE thinks that it is douche and turd sandwich. but after searching around, they find candidate C for COOL. now, instead of voting for D or TS, they can vote for C, and they ALL do. what is the logical outcome? i didn't ask you for odds of that collective decision happening, i asked you: WHAT IS THE LOGICAL OUTCOME OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY VOTING FOR A CANDIDATE THEY LIKE?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:25:35 GMT -5
$hitty candidates? Which one? ;D take your pick, bro. there is ample shit to go around.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 4, 2012 19:26:07 GMT -5
What will happen is what always happens when a quasi-legitimate 3rd party candidate runs, he pulls votes mostly from one side and the person that is actually furthest from your views gets elected.
And I really don't know how to fix it.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:30:26 GMT -5
What will happen is what always happens when a quasi-legitimate 3rd party candidate runs, he pulls votes mostly from one side and the person that is actually furthest from your views gets elected. And I really don't know how to fix it. occasionally- and believe me, i know it is rare- a third party candidate WINS. it is even MORE rare for them to repeat that, but that sometimes happens TOO. and when it does, OFTEN, a third party becomes a major party and a major party is relegated to third. now, i realize that it has been nearly a century since this happened in any appreciable way. but have you NO faith man?
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 4, 2012 19:34:25 GMT -5
dj,I hate to say it, but this thread is just for me, isn't it? Still cannot vote for a Republican........
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 4, 2012 19:41:01 GMT -5
What will happen is what always happens when a quasi-legitimate 3rd party candidate runs, he pulls votes mostly from one side and the person that is actually furthest from your views gets elected. And I really don't know how to fix it. occasionally- and believe me, i know it is rare- a third party candidate WINS. it is even MORE rare for them to repeat that, but that sometimes happens TOO. and when it does, OFTEN, a third party becomes a major party and a major party is relegated to third. now, i realize that it has been nearly a century since this happened in any appreciable way. but have you NO faith man? I was really only speaking about the presidential race, it is possible for a 3rd party candidate to win other elections, but virtually impossible in the Presidential race. Maybe if enough 3rd party candidates get elected to other positions, it might make a 3rd party viable in the big one. But even so most 3rd party wins now are 'independents' but they are usually independent because there party didn't want to support them. And I'm not sure there will be a an independent "party"
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:41:42 GMT -5
dj,I hate to say it, but this thread is just for me, isn't it? Still cannot vote for a Republican........ are you deranged? i voted for a Republican in the last three presidential races. i already said that like, 10x or something, on various boards here. if you can't accept that, you have some issues to sort out. i have no problem voting for Republicans whatosever, so long as they have a Libertarian stripe to them. many do. Romney is approximately as far from those positions as Obama. what reason can you give me to vote for EITHER? oh, and i am waiting for you to pony up on that bet. just name your terms. as i said, i will accept ANY terms you offer, provided that they are 1:1.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2012 19:42:36 GMT -5
occasionally- and believe me, i know it is rare- a third party candidate WINS. it is even MORE rare for them to repeat that, but that sometimes happens TOO. and when it does, OFTEN, a third party becomes a major party and a major party is relegated to third. now, i realize that it has been nearly a century since this happened in any appreciable way. but have you NO faith man? I was really only speaking about the presidential race so was i. i ask you again: are you completely cynical, or do you see it as POSSIBLE?
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