Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 13:00:38 GMT -5
Abortion doctors kill in the name of God?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 13:02:29 GMT -5
Tangential Question:
Do aborted fetuses go to Heaven?
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Post by suzwantstobefree on Jan 24, 2011 13:03:08 GMT -5
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Post by efco on Jan 24, 2011 13:07:08 GMT -5
Aborted baybees...not fetuses. I'M JOOS SAYIN'
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 24, 2011 13:07:11 GMT -5
"I also don't understand how people can kill in the name of God - terrorists and abortion doctors come to mind. I cannot help but think that it makes God really sad. "
This is all based on your conceived notion of what you randomly believe God to be like though. If you think God put you on this earth to rid it of infidels and non-believers, it makes complete logical sense for you to go out and "do his bidding". Your view of God is obviously along the lines of "God wants us to love everyone no matter what, and he'll do the judging". Not everyone believes that same thing though.
Heck, the Bible is full of writings that were determined purely by the church whether to include or not. If you believe only the Old Testament it doesn't take much to envision God as a war-loving vengeful being. Which writings you decide to include will shape your vision of God and how he expects people to act.
As an example: If you believe the story of Noah's Ark and that God killed everyone on the planet other than Noah's family, it wouldn't take much to believe that God is ok with using his believers to carry out the same kind of cleansing. OT God specifically isn't exactly lovey-dovey in his dealings with humans.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jan 24, 2011 13:09:59 GMT -5
...but, hoops, why are you discussing yourself in the third person? ...okay, now back to a football discussion...
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ihearyou2
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Post by ihearyou2 on Jan 24, 2011 13:12:16 GMT -5
People confuse religion with a creator, many of the greatest scientists believe in a creator specifically because of the work that they do.
PS We've had this conversation many times before so this is a retread.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 24, 2011 13:13:17 GMT -5
"I say live and let live, but I believe one day you will have to account for your actions on earth. "
But what if one day you're judged to be worthy of heaven precisely because you DID kill abortion doctors and God deems that as saving lives? I don't believe that, but your guess is really as good as mine on what God does or doesn't want. Does God want us to shoot down someone on a killing rampage or just let it go because that would be murder.
Your view on murdering abortion doctors is likely at least partially skewed by human law. If there were a serial killer going around killing babies 5 minutes after they were born would you be more inclined to believe that it's ok to put an end to his killing spree by eliminating him? The human view that at some point killing is ok (or that killing is actually killing given that we've made a blurry distintion between a human being and something less than human) doesn't necessarily mean that's also God's view. If God thinks abortionists are murderers, do you think he wants believers standing around allowing someone to go on a murderous rampage killing hundreds of people?
Again, it's completely dependent on what each person has deemed in their own mind that God wants..which is almost always monstrously skewed by their own personal beliefs.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 24, 2011 13:14:37 GMT -5
...but, hoops, why are you discussing yourself in the third person? ...okay, now back to a football discussion... trinity obviously, separate but 1. It's why I can have conversations with myself without being crazy.
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Post by rick on Jan 24, 2011 13:15:07 GMT -5
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Post by suzwantstobefree on Jan 24, 2011 13:16:45 GMT -5
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jan 24, 2011 13:22:17 GMT -5
...hey, hey, hoops... you said yourself that your abilities follow the conceived notion of what we randomly believe God to be like... so why claim a triune nature, and omnipotent nature, and a wrath against infidels... all the while awaiting our adoration... ...still, what do you think about football in THIS life?
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Post by suzwantstobefree on Jan 24, 2011 13:22:21 GMT -5
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 24, 2011 13:25:38 GMT -5
"Yes, I agree with the old testament view of God being not so loving. However, he did sacrifice his son to give us all the opportunity to have an everlasting life.
As for Noah's Ark - God didn't like how that turned out and promised never to cover the world with water again. I think that even God needed to learn from some of his actions. "
1. If you believe the NT then yes. However not everyone does, and many people believe in religious writings that did not make the current church's "cut" of which books to include or exclude. So if you are of the belief that the NT is not the word of God and therefore have excluded it from your religious beliefs, it's not hard to see how the only writings you have paint God as an angry and vengeful being.
2. God wouldn't "learn from his actions" if he were everywhere at everytime at once. One of the tenets usually relegated to God is that he is infallible. He would never "not like" how something turned out since he'd already know how it turns out. So even if you believe the story, promising not to cover the world with water again does not exclude him from having his followers cleanse the Earth of infidels.
What you (and most Christians) believe is directly based on what writings your former church leaders determined should or shouldn't be included in the Bible. If there was a writing they chose to include which called upon God's true believers to rid the world of infidels and non-believers then that would likely be your belief. It's hard to grasp now because that's not the view of God you likely grew up with. But I don't think it's hard to imagine that other people's view of God is not the same as yours given that your view of him comes from selected excerpts of writings that church leaders decided painted the story they wanted to push onto the people.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 24, 2011 13:26:31 GMT -5
...hey, hey, hoops... you said yourself that your abilities follow the conceived notion of what we randomly believe God to be like... so why claim a triune nature, and omnipotent nature, and a wrath against infidels... all the while awaiting our adoration... ...still, what do you think about football in THIS life? I think if God really existed Chicago would have won yesterday.
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Post by rick on Jan 24, 2011 13:26:57 GMT -5
Anyone that believes in Pro Choice, stop and think about where you would be today had your mother not choosen life
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jan 24, 2011 13:28:23 GMT -5
Anyone that believes in Pro Choice, stop and think about where you would be today had your mother not choosen life I'd be biohazard waste. Or I'd have been used in research. Either way, I'm fine with that. But "I" wouldn't have existed. A clump of cells is not a viable person.
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The J
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Post by The J on Jan 24, 2011 13:29:21 GMT -5
Anyone that believes in Pro Choice, stop and think about where you would be today had your mother not choosen life I know I wouldn't be at work!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 13:29:36 GMT -5
Anyone that believes in Pro Choice, stop and think about where you would be today had your mother not choosen life I'd be livin it up in Heaven, rather than being stuck at this freaking boring job.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 24, 2011 13:34:16 GMT -5
"Should she have had the baby anyway - who am I to judge - but she is still my friend and I would have hated her to be the victim of the abortion protestors."
I'm not arguing the merits of abortion, I'm arguing that given that others might have a different view of God apart from human law, I don't think it's difficult to see how people can kill in the name of God.
Again, if someone were to go around murdering newborns in the hospital, would you think someone was a horrible person if they shot that serial killer? I understand that your view of abortion is not akin to serial murder...but if someone's beliefs were that it was, I dont' think it's difficult to see WHY someone would do that. Whether they are right or wrong is a different story.
You think it "makes God sad" because of how you perceive God. I doubt very much that people who kill in the name of God think "this is so wrong, and God hates this, but I'm going to do it anyways and say it was because of God". I think it's much more likely and frequent that others simply have a different view of God and his wishes than you do. And there's nothing proving which view is actually correct (or if either view is).
Do you think that terrorists killing in the name of God do it because they just feel like it while knowing that God doesn't want them to really do it? They do it because they believe that's what God wishes for them to do the same way that you believe God wants people to love one another.
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The J
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Post by The J on Jan 24, 2011 13:34:16 GMT -5
IF there is No God, then how did NOTHING create itself into SOMETHING? In the vast void of nothingness, nothing turned into something? If there is a god, then how did god come into existence? God would be something that was created out of nothingness.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 13:35:52 GMT -5
God makes mistakes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 13:36:20 GMT -5
IF there is No God, then how did NOTHING create itself into SOMETHING? In the vast void of nothingness, nothing turned into something? If there is a god, then how did god come into existence? God would be something that was created out of nothingness. Didn't you read the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 24, 2011 13:36:24 GMT -5
IF there is No God, then how did NOTHING create itself into SOMETHING? In the vast void of nothingness, nothing turned into something? The big bang and evolution.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 13:37:03 GMT -5
Anyone that believes in Pro Choice, stop and think about where you would be today had your mother not choosen life I wouldn't be thinking of anything. I wouldn't exist.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 24, 2011 13:37:27 GMT -5
Anyone that believes in Pro Choice, stop and think about where you would be today had your mother not choosen life I will always support a woman's autonomy over her own body. Really? So you're in favor of allowing women to reach full term and ask a doctor to reach inside as they go into labor and strangle the fetus to death? I think even pro-choice supporters mostly recognize that at some point a woman should not have autonomy over her own body when they deem a "human life" to exist inside her. The argument really seems to be about when "human life" actually exists.
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Post by rick on Jan 24, 2011 13:38:54 GMT -5
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jan 24, 2011 13:40:25 GMT -5
<<< God makes mistakes? >>> ...right... the Bears didn't win yesterday, remember?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 13:41:34 GMT -5
I wouldn't know I had any wisdom to share. So I would not be bothered by the fact I didn't exist.
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Post by efco on Jan 24, 2011 13:41:50 GMT -5
abortion...late term abortion. same thing.
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