floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 8, 2012 10:19:43 GMT -5
Well as a very non gay person I must admit that gay marriage does not sit well with me. You're not the one marrying someone with the same plumbing. Why would someone else's relationship impact you one little bit? As a conservative, If I don't like guns, I just won't get one. Nor will I try to stop you from owning one. Why should same sex marriage be any different? C'mon conservatives...Same sex relationships have absolutely zero impact on your rights. Get the f out of the social engineering business and let people live their lives freely as they damned well see fit.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 8, 2012 10:22:10 GMT -5
Well as a very non gay person I must admit that gay marriage does not sit well with me. You're not the one marrying someone with the same plumbing. Why would someone else's relationship impact you one little bit? As a conservative, If I don't like guns, I just won't get one. Nor will I try to stop you from owning one. Why should same sex marriage be any different? C'mon conservatives...Same sex relationships have absolutely zero impact on your rights. Get the f out of the social engineering business and let people live their lives freely as they damned well see fit. you should have kept reading - he's actually okay with having the government step in to protect the rights of gays to marry.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 8, 2012 10:39:04 GMT -5
You're not the one marrying someone with the same plumbing. Why would someone else's relationship impact you one little bit? As a conservative, If I don't like guns, I just won't get one. Nor will I try to stop you from owning one. Why should same sex marriage be any different? C'mon conservatives...Same sex relationships have absolutely zero impact on your rights. Get the f out of the social engineering business and let people live their lives freely as they damned well see fit. you should have kept reading - he's actually okay with having the government step in to protect the rights of gays to marry. The first paragraph was simply asking why it should bother him since it is not him that is getting married. "Your" relationship is yours, not mine. As long as it involves two consenting adults, why should it bother anybody? The rest was just on a non-specific rant....I just happened to pick his post to vent. Most of the opposition of same sex marriage comes from the right so I replying to conservatives, right wingers, and republicans in general, not handyman specific. It just bugs me that the right seems to value liberty, freedom of choice and keeping government out of business they don't belong in, yet they won't back off the social engineering crap such as this. IMHO, telling the government to stay the hell out of your personal life and then telling government to get involved in someone else's is fucking hypocritical and against true conservative values.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 8, 2012 10:41:46 GMT -5
you should have kept reading - he's actually okay with having the government step in to protect the rights of gays to marry. The first paragraph was simply asking why it should bother him since it is not him that is getting married. "Your" relationship is yours, not mine. As long as it involves two consenting adults, why should it bother anybody? The rest was just on a non-specific rant....I just happened to pick his post to vent. Most of the opposition of same sex marriage comes from the right so I replying to conservatives, right wingers, and republicans in general, not handyman specific. It just bugs me that the right seems to value liberty, freedom of choice and keeping government out of business they don't belong in, yet they won't back off the social engineering crap such as this. IMHO, telling the government to stay the hell out of your personal life and then telling government to get involved in someone else's is fucking hypocritical and against true conservative values. how is ensuring equal civil rights for all citizens "getting involved in someone else's life" FY?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 8, 2012 11:09:07 GMT -5
The first paragraph was simply asking why it should bother him since it is not him that is getting married. "Your" relationship is yours, not mine. As long as it involves two consenting adults, why should it bother anybody? The rest was just on a non-specific rant....I just happened to pick his post to vent. Most of the opposition of same sex marriage comes from the right so I replying to conservatives, right wingers, and republicans in general, not handyman specific. It just bugs me that the right seems to value liberty, freedom of choice and keeping government out of business they don't belong in, yet they won't back off the social engineering crap such as this. IMHO, telling the government to stay the hell out of your personal life and then telling government to get involved in someone else's is fucking hypocritical and against true conservative values. how is ensuring equal civil rights for all citizens "getting involved in someone else's life" FY? Not quite sure what you're asking because the right doesn't seem to want equality when it comes to marriage.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 8, 2012 11:17:23 GMT -5
Not quite sure what you're asking because the right doesn't seem to want equality when it comes to marriage. IMHO, telling the government to stay the hell out of your personal life and then telling government to get involved in someone else's is fucking hypocritical and against true conservative values. I was asking how having the gov't ensure equality is "getting involved in someone else's life" as you said here. what does someone's marriage have to do with yours, his, or anyone else's? that's my biggest problem with opponents of gay marriage. gay marriages have NO impact on anyone else's.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Feb 8, 2012 11:52:07 GMT -5
As long as the government recognizes certain privileges for married people, it is unconstitutional to prevent same sex marriages. I personally don't think the government should make any laws regarding marriage, in which case it would be a moot point.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 8, 2012 12:38:57 GMT -5
Not quite sure what you're asking because the right doesn't seem to want equality when it comes to marriage. IMHO, telling the government to stay the hell out of your personal life and then telling government to get involved in someone else's is fucking hypocritical and against true conservative values. I was asking how having the gov't ensure equality is "getting involved in someone else's life" as you said here. That's not what I said. I'm saying that the right always wants the government out of their personal lives and then turn around and demand government restrict marriage to one man and one woman. It is hypocritical. That's what I'm asking. If Joe and Jack get married, it has zero impact on me and my family and values. Why should I want government to restrict their freedoms? I'm not an opponent of gay marriage. It's one area where I separate myself from main stream right wing values. Freedom of choice means exactly that. If two dudes choose to get married, have at it. To deny that restricts freedom of choice and is against conservative values. You do realize you're 'arguing' with me and saying the same exact thing I am, don't you?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 8, 2012 12:42:09 GMT -5
FY-you both agree on the same thing.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 8, 2012 12:52:37 GMT -5
IMHO, telling the government to stay the hell out of your personal life and then telling government to get involved in someone else's is fucking hypocritical and against true conservative values. I was asking how having the gov't ensure equality is "getting involved in someone else's life" as you said here. That's not what I said. I'm saying that the right always wants the government out of their personal lives and then turn around and demand government restrict marriage to one man and one woman. It is hypocritical. That's what I'm asking. If Joe and Jack get married, it has zero impact on me and my family and values. Why should I want government to restrict their freedoms? I'm not an opponent of gay marriage. It's one area where I separate myself from main stream right wing values. Freedom of choice means exactly that. If two dudes choose to get married, have at it. To deny that restricts freedom of choice and is against conservative values. You do realize you're 'arguing' with me and saying the same exact thing I am, don't you? haha, I do now. I was confused because of the post you happened to grab for your first comment there. that poster was also in agreement with us, at least in part. cheers.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 8, 2012 14:56:03 GMT -5
FY-you both agree on the same thing. All opponents, especially conservatives should agree based on a simple understanding of freedom of choice. I choose to have relations with an opposite sex partner. You (hypothetically not personally) choose to have relations with a same sex partner. It's not a choice I would make, but it's also not one I should be worrying about anyway. It's the same reasoning I support Fred Phelps right to spew hatred. I don't have to agree with your choice, but I must let you retain the freedom to make it or we will all lose because eventually the government will decide to come after my freedom. Got ya. Most of my first post was a rant about the traditional right wing stance of 'my way or the highway'. The only part of handy's post that I was really responding to was the part about it not sitting well with him. As I said, I choose an opposite sex partner. Someone elses choice is really none of my concern so I just don't understand why their choice 'wouldn't sit well'.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 8, 2012 21:28:31 GMT -5
Florida Yankee to answer your question about why the gay life style does not sit well with me. I had three very good friends that were gay. One was a team mate on a softball team, another was a hospital bio-med specialist who I had a lot of contact with in doing business in hospitals. The third was a department head in a hospital. I never judged them. Guess where they are all now. The oldest was in his early forties when he died. From what? Aids. A sad end to three bright young men. That is why I consider it an unhealthy life style. And I don't like losing friends.
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mtman
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Post by mtman on Feb 8, 2012 21:39:23 GMT -5
What's next?.........Farm animals
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 8, 2012 21:54:29 GMT -5
Florida Yankee to answer your question about why the gay life style does not sit well with me. I had three very good friends that were gay. One was a team mate on a softball team, another was a hospital bio-med specialist who I had a lot of contact with in doing business in hospitals. The third was a department head in a hospital. I never judged them. Guess where they are all now. The oldest was in his early forties when he died. From what? Aids. A sad end to three bright young men. That is why I consider it an unhealthy life style. And I don't like losing friends. handyman, I'm sorry for the loss of your friends. past that, there are myriad ways to prevent transmission of the HIV virus regardless of the sexual orientation of the victims of the disease. the sad fact is that this disease ran rampant throughout the gay community because standard precautions taken for pregnancy would have reasonably contained the HIV virus as well. as the gay community had no need to worry about unintended pregnancy, "safe sex" had a different literal translation.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 8, 2012 22:11:56 GMT -5
Thanks Chiver: Hopefully they will be able to contain and develop a positive cure for the disease for those that have it or get it. It is not a easy way to die.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 8, 2012 23:27:01 GMT -5
On what grounds will it be overturned? ========================= From the published ruling: "Proposition 8 serves no purpose, and has no effect, other than to lessen the status and human dignity of gays and lesbians in California, and to officially reclassify their relationships and families as inferior to those of opposite-sex couples," said Judge Stephen Reinhardt in the majority opinion. "The Constitution simply does not allow for 'laws of this sort'." There's no right to marry.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 8, 2012 23:40:15 GMT -5
... There's no right to marry. But equal protection under the law is and the opportunity to get a license from the state to enter into a marriage is a privilege granted. So the question is does a state have a compelling reason to only allow mixed gender pairs to get that license.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2012 23:40:35 GMT -5
What do you call it when the state grants privileges based on state-issued license?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 8, 2012 23:52:41 GMT -5
The Washington state legislature today approved same-sex marriage. The governor is expected to sign it into law and will go into effect in June. Opponents are attempting to stop it and get it on the November ballot.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 8, 2012 23:55:19 GMT -5
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dumdeedoe
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Post by dumdeedoe on Feb 8, 2012 23:56:05 GMT -5
Hum..... first birth control now gay marriage.......... I guess this is the last push to get rid of those pesky "Christian values" in this nation........
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 8, 2012 23:59:17 GMT -5
Should be interesting especially with the (more than likely) California appeal. It could influence any referendum in Washington.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 9, 2012 0:00:00 GMT -5
Hum..... first birth control now gay marriage.......... I guess this is the last push to get rid of those pesky "Christian values" in this nation........ I guess so.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 9, 2012 0:41:28 GMT -5
If a law is passed that allows people of the same gender to be married, I fail to see how that law could possibly get rid of anyone's Christian values. Christian values are a part of who a person is, not a part of the law, and no law has been proposed which would deny anybody the right to maintain their Christian values.
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dumdeedoe
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Post by dumdeedoe on Feb 9, 2012 0:56:47 GMT -5
I guess one would have to ask if Christ would approve of gay marriage or abortion... Or you can be a more enlighted person and say he may not but I know best........
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jupe36
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Post by jupe36 on Feb 9, 2012 2:16:47 GMT -5
If marriage is a religious union, the government should have never recognized 'marriages' in the first place; nor should they have made special laws or rules about married couples. If the government just recognized a legal union between two people it should take away the argument that a 'marriage is between a man and a woman'. This would give everyone equal rights in the eyes of the government. A couple who wanted the designation of 'marriage' could arrange that with the church.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 9, 2012 4:47:18 GMT -5
Well as a very non gay person I must admit that gay marriage does not sit well with me. You're not the one marrying someone with the same plumbing. Why would someone else's relationship impact you one little bit? As a conservative, If I don't like guns, I just won't get one. Nor will I try to stop you from owning one. Why should same sex marriage be any different? C'mon conservatives...Same sex relationships have absolutely zero impact on your rights. Get the f out of the social engineering business and let people live their lives freely as they damned well see fit. But...but ....sodomy is a SIN!! And everyone knows that sin causes earthquakes.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 9, 2012 10:08:58 GMT -5
... But...but ....sodomy is a SIN!! And everyone knows that sin causes earthquakes. True enough but we are talking about the attempt to end gay sex here on this thread.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 9, 2012 10:13:14 GMT -5
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 9, 2012 10:51:22 GMT -5
For myself I really don't think it's my place to judge what others do as long as it does not affect the health or safety of others or the public at large. Homosexuality has some concerning aspects that could IMO cross that line but for debating purposes lets just assume proper protection and treatment has eliminated the threat of HIV. My personal beliefs are more in line with most countries which is that it is not a normal behavior and has some serious detrimental social affects. That should be my personal rights to have and share that opinion just like it should be yours to hold the opposite one. In all reality whether or not homosexuality or sodomy should or should not be legal or illegal or if it causes earthquakes or aids is quite secondary to whether our government should be changing the definition of marriage to allow them to receive benefits from the tax payers who oppose it.
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