pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Feb 6, 2012 12:01:07 GMT -5
Don't let them get to you lonewolf. They don't understand that there are people who abuse the system, and social programs have created an atmoshere of dependancy. They don't understand that a society can't function where you reward the unproductive and punish the successful. They don't understand that the programs are set up to create generations of poor and indignant. They don't understand just giving people money doesn't fix their problems. And because they can't acknowledge the fraud, waste, and abuse, true reform won't happen. And they don't acknowledge that human society managed to survive for thousands of years without medicaide. The U.S survived for a long time too. Personally, I think massive government social programs will be a cutionairy tale in far future, recognized as a great mistake that bankrupted powerful nations. There is a sense of dependency, but it is not just people getting "welfare" benefits. There is a depedency of farmers relying on subsidies; big business, of course, are dependent upon the government for subsidies, so where is the outrage for that type of dependence?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 6, 2012 12:14:22 GMT -5
Don't let them get to you lonewolf. They don't understand that there are people who abuse the system, and social programs have created an atmoshere of dependancy. They don't understand that a society can't function where you reward the unproductive and punish the successful. They don't understand that the programs are set up to create generations of poor and indignant. They don't understand just giving people money doesn't fix their problems. And because they can't acknowledge the fraud, waste, and abuse, true reform won't happen. And they don't acknowledge that human society managed to survive for thousands of years without medicaide. The U.S survived for a long time too. Personally, I think massive government social programs will be a cutionairy tale in far future, recognized as a great mistake that bankrupted powerful nations. There is a sense of dependency, but it is not just people getting "welfare" benefits. There is a depedency of farmers relying on subsidies; big business, of course, are dependent upon the government for subsidies, so where is the outrage for that type of dependence? People depend on government to give them special rights simply for filling out some papers (Incorporation in 3 Steps - Form a C-Corp, S-Corp or LLC. and depend on government to protect them when they fail (Bankruptcy: Chapter 11 Reorganizations www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/.../df7296.html).
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floridayankee
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If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 6, 2012 12:55:06 GMT -5
I've generally voted democrat because the national republican candidates seem way too interested in what's happening in my bedroom and uterus and neglecting what's happening to my wallet. I do not vote party line, though. Wouldn't DOMA, signed in to law by Clinton, be Democratic intrusion into your bedroom? I honestly don't see much difference between D and R any more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 13:32:48 GMT -5
Both parties have dropped the ball. Don't Ask Don't Tell and DOMA are pretty absurd legacies from the Clinton administration.
Obama has eliminated one and is working on the other. The GOP would have stood by both policies. So maybe the difference is a willingness to fix one's mistakes?
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Feb 6, 2012 14:22:23 GMT -5
Don't let them get to you lonewolf. They don't understand that there are people who abuse the system, and social programs have created an atmoshere of dependancy. They don't understand that a society can't function where you reward the unproductive and punish the successful. They don't understand that the programs are set up to create generations of poor and indignant. They don't understand just giving people money doesn't fix their problems. And because they can't acknowledge the fraud, waste, and abuse, true reform won't happen. And they don't acknowledge that human society managed to survive for thousands of years without medicaide. The U.S survived for a long time too. Personally, I think massive government social programs will be a cutionairy tale in far future, recognized as a great mistake that bankrupted powerful nations. There is a sense of dependency, but it is not just people getting "welfare" benefits. There is a depedency of farmers relying on subsidies; big business, of course, are dependent upon the government for subsidies, so where is the outrage for that type of dependence?
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floridayankee
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If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 6, 2012 14:37:10 GMT -5
Both parties have dropped the ball. Don't Ask Don't Tell and DOMA are pretty absurd legacies from the Clinton administration. Obama has eliminated one and is working on the other. The GOP would have stood by both policies. So maybe the difference is a willingness to fix one's mistakes? Democrats are still defending Holder over Fast and Furious. There's plenty of mistakes made by members of both parties. The majority of the time, 'the party' stands by them. No differences there either. Democrats defended -- even apologized to -- Attorney General Eric Holder throughout today's hearing on Operation Fast and Furious, impugning the motives of Republican investigators and absolving Holder of any scandal. campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/democrats-circle-wagons-around-holder-hearing/356681
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 6, 2012 14:42:14 GMT -5
There is a sense of dependency, but it is not just people getting "welfare" benefits. There is a depedency of farmers relying on subsidies; big business, of course, are dependent upon the government for subsidies, so where is the outrage for that type of dependence? These businesses that are painted as "welfare recipients" are part of the economic philosophy of Washington D.C. which is: If it moves tax it; if it keeps moving, regulate it; and if it stops moving, subsidize it. They'd all rather simply be left alone, but when you take an industry like the airlines, or housing, or any number of industries the government has screwed up- it's not fair to them or to the public to go without what they produce because the government has been f*cking them over for decades. I'm all for cutting out the subsidies, but that has to go hand in hand with tax reform and deregulation. Period. On this, we should not negotiate. Keep your money, but get the hell out of my way!
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 6, 2012 15:32:57 GMT -5
The problem is that the social safety net we currently have rewards the behaviors that lead to poverty and punish the behaviors that lead to wealth, along with paying the segment of our population that is the most unfit to become parents to have chilidren. Because of this safety net, we have entire neighborhoods that have been turned into war zones, due in large part to the piss poor parenting done by those who had children to get a check. This means we all have to endure longer commutes and higher housing costs to keep our children safe from these people.
I'm all for helping the helpless. But I do have a problem with rewarding bad decisions and laziness.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 6, 2012 16:21:21 GMT -5
The problem is that the social safety net we currently have rewards the behaviors that lead to poverty and punish the behaviors that lead to wealth, along with paying the segment of our population that is the most unfit to become parents to have chilidren. Because of this safety net, we have entire neighborhoods that have been turned into war zones, due in large part to the piss poor parenting done by those who had children to get a check. This means we all have to endure longer commutes and higher housing costs to keep our children safe from these people. I'm all for helping the helpless. But I do have a problem with rewarding bad decisions and laziness. Newt Gingrich and the GOP revolution did the exact right thing placing limits on welfare. And lest Clinton get any credit at all- he was dragged to it kicking and screaming. He didn't sign it until the third time around- and only then because Congress looked almost for sure to have the numbers to override his VETO. The story line from the Clintonistas is that the Congress went back and changed certain provisions- that is largely false. The bill he eventually signed is substantively the same as the first two bills.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 6, 2012 16:22:21 GMT -5
The point being- the only real progress that has been made rolling government back is going to come from the GOP. They aren't perfect, they've made mistakes, but real reform will come from the right with the GOP as its instrument.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Feb 6, 2012 16:40:38 GMT -5
I've generally voted democrat because the national republican candidates seem way too interested in what's happening in my bedroom and uterus and neglecting what's happening to my wallet. I do not vote party line, though. BINGO!!!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 6, 2012 16:49:14 GMT -5
Message deleted by weltschmerz.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Feb 6, 2012 17:05:28 GMT -5
". . . but very much in keeping with the Christian values many of us hold true."
===============
Like: "There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
Like: "Judge not lest ye be judged."
Like: "How is it that you see the speck in your brother's eye when you do not see the plank in your own?"
Like: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
I'd sure be a LOT happier about all the "Christian rhetoric" I hear tossed around the in political halls of this country if it were actually followed.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Feb 6, 2012 17:39:19 GMT -5
Incidentally, a moderator or administrator placed a derogatory/snarky comment about "André Cold Duck" next to my name (ostensibly to humiliate me) and it was allowed... why? Hypocrisy is a Virtue... to Hypocrites. ---------------------------------- was meant as a joke, Antibabble.. a little poke at your name change to Don (rather than DOM) Perignon... was waiting to see if and when you would notice or comment. --------------------------- It was wrong. Mod or not, joke or not, you have NO right to mess with peoples' signatures or change anything under their avatars. I didn't change his signature, nor anything else he chose.. I added a CUSTOM TITLE, which can only be done by a mod. so yes, I have every 'right'.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 6, 2012 17:44:09 GMT -5
". . . but very much in keeping with the Christian values many of us hold true." =============== Like: "There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land." Like: "Judge not lest ye be judged." Like: "How is it that you see the speck in your brother's eye when you do not see the plank in your own?" Like: "Love your neighbor as yourself." I'd sure be a LOT happier about all the "Christian rhetoric" I hear tossed around the in political halls of this country if it were actually followed. There are ways to do most of the above without rewarding bad behavior. And politicians will be politicians, no matter what religion they claim to follow.
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Feb 6, 2012 18:04:55 GMT -5
---------------------------------- was meant as a joke, Antibabble.. a little poke at your name change to Don (rather than DOM) Perignon... was waiting to see if and when you would notice or comment. --------------------------- It was wrong. Mod or not, joke or not, you have NO right to mess with peoples' signatures or change anything under their avatars. I didn't change his signature, nor anything else he chose.. I added a CUSTOM TITLE, which can only be done by a mod. so yes, I have every 'right'. "Might makes Right." Bullies have every "right" that they can seize for themselves, don't they? They can harass others to entertain themselves and their coterie of sycophants... they can do wrong and escape Justice (with the aid and support of their minions and toadies, of course)! Seiously, it's one thing to do wrong without knowing any better, but to be knowingly malicious just because you know you can get away with it... is pretty much despicable.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Feb 6, 2012 18:24:38 GMT -5
Look Antibabble. You come here and insult and bully people on a DAILY BASIS. You couldn't even stay away from insulting our deceased moderator! THAT is despicable.. My tagline added to your profile was not meant in that vein. It was only a play on your new name. nothing more.
You need to concentrate on your OWN shortcomings and quit your attacks because you wore out your welcome a long time ago.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Feb 6, 2012 18:42:46 GMT -5
"There are ways to do most of the above without rewarding bad behavior."
You're right! BUT I don't see it happening :-(
"And politicians will be politicians, no matter what religion they claim to follow."
Also true - and all the more reason for them to stop bast*rdizing religion for the sake of political gain.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 6, 2012 18:53:09 GMT -5
I've generally voted democrat because the national republican candidates seem way too interested in what's happening in my bedroom and uterus and neglecting what's happening to my wallet. I do not vote party line, though. Wouldn't DOMA, signed in to law by Clinton, be Democratic intrusion into your bedroom? I honestly don't see much difference between D and R any more. Since DOMA was signed into law more than 15 years ago, SCOTUS has ruled laws criminalizing homosexual activity are unconstitutional, congress has repealed the military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy and the Obama administration has directed the Justice Department not to defend Section 3 (the federal definition of marriage) of DOMA in court cases. A democrat is fixing the problem. In 2008, former Republican congressman Bob Barr, the author and sponsor of DOMA, apologized for having sponsored DOMA and believes the law should be repealed.
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Feb 6, 2012 19:54:36 GMT -5
Did DOMA ever prevent even one divorce? If not, then it was inaccurately named. Perhaps it wasn't really about "marriage" at all... it was targeting something else, covertly, wasn't it? Truth be told, "The Trampling the Civil Rights of Homosexuals Act" may have had a tad more trouble getting ushered into law.
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Feb 6, 2012 20:01:50 GMT -5
"Marry in haste, repent at leisure."
Kinda ironic, no?
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 6, 2012 20:02:09 GMT -5
Why Do They Vote Democrat?
For the goodies.. They want big Government to take care of them.
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Feb 6, 2012 20:16:06 GMT -5
"In God We Trust."
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 6, 2012 20:49:38 GMT -5
Why Do They Vote Democrat? For the goodies.. They want big Government to take care of them. My question is why does our government want so many of us dependent upon it? ? Easy and simple... control
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 20:53:05 GMT -5
Why Do They Vote Democrat? For the goodies.. They want big Government to take care of them. My question is why does our government want so many of us dependent upon it? ? Our government is simply a representative of the people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 20:58:10 GMT -5
Our government is simply a representative of the people. I don't feel it is anymore. I feel that the tail is now wagging the dog. You may not feel it is, but the fact is, is that it is. Is.
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gavinsnana
Senior Member
If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 6, 2012 21:00:03 GMT -5
Easy and simple... control Why control? Control of what and for what reason? Our very freedoms.. money.. They want a Socialist country..
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gavinsnana
Senior Member
If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 6, 2012 21:02:34 GMT -5
My question is why does our government want so many of us dependent upon it? ? Our government is simply a representative of the people. LOL.. Let me know when they start doing that
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 6, 2012 21:26:47 GMT -5
Why Do They Vote Democrat? For the goodies.. They want big Government to take care of them. Warren Buffett and Bill Gates want big government to take care of them? wow.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 6, 2012 21:27:26 GMT -5
Why Do They Vote Democrat? For the goodies.. They want big Government to take care of them. My question is why does our government want so many of us dependent upon it? ? it doesn't.
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