djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 31, 2012 15:19:23 GMT -5
You can overdose and kill yourself on FDA approved Tylenol. I think this is FDA's attempt to get a foothold into regulating supplements. as well they should. there are some that are useless, some that have minor effect, and some that are downright dangerous.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 31, 2012 15:20:48 GMT -5
the list is endless, weltz. ENDLESS. there are naturally occurring toxins ALL OVER the place. the FDA has not only the RIGHT, but the RESPONSIBILITY to regulate them. that is what they are there for. it is truly bizarre when the libertarians out there seem to be professing a right for businesses to poison people. I didn't realize the businesses were forcing people to take them...or overdose on them. who said anything about overdosing? i am talking far more generally than that. so, just to be clear- are the libertarians here saying that a manufacturer should be able to manufacture a toxic substance as a miracle cure without any warnings whatsoever?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 15:22:15 GMT -5
Per the definition of liberty is somebody is held accountable for their actions then yes let them manufacturer a deadly substance.....
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 31, 2012 15:23:17 GMT -5
so, just to be clear- are the libertarians here saying that a manufacturer should be able to manufacture a toxic substance as a miracle cure without any warnings whatsoever? -------------------------- Sure! They'll police themselves, dontcha know?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 31, 2012 15:23:49 GMT -5
Per the definition of liberty is somebody is held accountable for their actions then yes let them manufacturer a deadly substance..... that seems insane to me. the consumer may have no way of knowing that the substance is dangerous if there is no testing protocol, and no liability for false claims. now, if you KNOWINGLY CHOOSE to ingest something that could be potentially fatal (lots of people do), then that is another matter entirely.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 15:26:04 GMT -5
Per the definition of liberty is somebody is held accountable for their actions then yes let them manufacturer a deadly substance..... that seems insane to me. the consumer may have no way of knowing that the substance is dangerous if there is no testing protocol, and no liability for false claims. It already happens you just feel protected by the magical government. I call that naive.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 15:26:43 GMT -5
so, just to be clear- are the libertarians here saying that a manufacturer should be able to manufacture a toxic substance as a miracle cure without any warnings whatsoever? -------------------------- Sure! They'll police themselves, dontcha know? Still waiting for a response on how the FDA is protecting the consumer from mad cow disease.....
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 31, 2012 15:34:30 GMT -5
that seems insane to me. the consumer may have no way of knowing that the substance is dangerous if there is no testing protocol, and no liability for false claims. It already happens you just feel protected by the magical government. I call that naive. now I will piss and moan about the FDA for making my job with a pharmaceutical company more difficult/cumbersome/tedious/whatever, but they do serve an important function to ensure the safety of the drugs being manufactured for use in this country, not to mention that those products are used as directed for their intended purposes. there are plenty of health disasters that resulted in the creation of the FDA and have since proven why the organization is needed. if you think I'm blowing smoke, go read up on sulfanilamide, thalidomide, or the Daikon shield.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 15:42:00 GMT -5
Chantix is approved by the FDA....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 15:48:41 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2012 15:51:48 GMT -5
That was before anyone had a full understanding of X-rays and the effects of radiation exposure. Once it was better understood what radation does to the body they were removed from shoe stores and radiation was no longer considered a novelty to be used in consumer products.
But yeah let's throw away the entire FDA based on X-ray shoe fitters from the 1930's.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Jan 31, 2012 15:54:48 GMT -5
The FDA like most government operated systems start with a good purpose and intention but grow into large political special interest machines that are not very effective in meeting their goals. It's not that agencies can not or should not be deliver a very useful and essential service it's that our government needs restraint to keep an agency like the FDA small, focused and efficient. We have to re invent all of government by understanding its intent, purpose and then fund it and restrain it accordingly.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2012 15:57:43 GMT -5
On American Restoration they got one of those X-ray shoe fitters brought in. They had to bring in a guy to test to make sure it wasn't still leaking radiation, if it had they would have contaminated the entire shop. Fortuanately it's radiation source had long since been removed.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 31, 2012 16:01:06 GMT -5
I had not actually heard of the sulfanilamide tragedy before today. I assume you are discussing the Depression-era preparation where a substance commonly used as an antifreeze was used as a solvent in the preparation of the sulfa drug. yep, that was it. one of the options for an annual refresher class on policies is a "history of the FDA". it was the only class I could work into my schedule one year, and it was great. as I said, I may whine about all the added paperwork that the FDA infuses into my job, but they serve an important purpose. there were more case studies I could have mentioned, but those were the 3 that immediately came to mind. take a look at the tragedies that resulted from unapproved drugs, or things being used for a different purpose than what's covered under the approvals. it's definitely attention-grabbing.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2012 16:05:54 GMT -5
The formation of the FDA was a good chunk of the material I had to read to become certified for human clinical trials.
Reading what went on before there were watchdog programs and everything was left to the wonderfully fantastic "free market" can make your toes curl.
They aren't perfect but I am glad the FDA exists and I don't have to worry about giving birth to a "flipper baby".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 16:14:43 GMT -5
The formation of the FDA was a good chunk of the material I had to read to become certified for human clinical trials. Reading what went on before there were watchdog programs and everything was left to the wonderfully fantastic "free market" can make your toes curl. They aren't perfect but I am glad the FDA exists and I don't have to worry about giving birth to a "flipper baby". How naive of you....sad really.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jan 31, 2012 16:15:46 GMT -5
Except...the FDA is going after pryidoxamine, not Niacin. ---------------------- It's still a B vitamin, is it not? I was refuting your claim of B vitamins not doing damage, because they're water soluble. Sure it is....The B that the FDA is banning (or declaring is a drug or whatever the heck this ruling does) is pyridoxamine...one form of B6. The form of B6 included in the few B-Complex vitamins that I looked at online was pyridoxine. 'Vitamin B' is not just one compound and B6 has a few variations. The FDA has effectively banned a naturally-occurring form of vitamin B6 called pyridoxamine by declaring it to be a drug All I'm saying here is that people need to take a bit of time to look at the implications of this ruling a little closer before jumping on the panic bandwagon. I didn't say smart...I said smarter than the equipment. Being able to read the bottle and follow instructions helps. Those that don't read and follow instructions, well.....call me cold, but they probably don't need to be in the gene pool anyway. Consider for a moment, the following label found on most hair dryers Should we ban hairdriers or should we assume they're smart enough to follow the instructions and not use it in the shower? "If I can dry my hair in 12 minutes after I get out of the shower, perhaps I can save a couple minutes by turning on the dryer while I'm rinsing my armpits." Absurd example, I know....but honestly, there's lots of ways to die or severely injure yourself out there. Just how far should we go to protect people from themselves because we're afraid they might not follow the instructions?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2012 16:18:21 GMT -5
He was particularly incensed by a quack who performed "goat gland" therapy to improve sexually potency and thereby killed scores over many years.
That one is my favorite. I would think it was made up if I hadn't read about it myself.
I keep wondering how the quack even came up with the idea in the first place. Was he sitting there one day and said to himself "I bet sticking goat testicles in my body would create one awesome boner!"
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2012 16:23:39 GMT -5
It's just one of those things that sounds like it came out of a novel because like I said, I can't fathom how you even come up with such a concept. I get how you can get people to go along with it, anything in the name of better more awesome sex.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jan 31, 2012 16:34:59 GMT -5
Vitamin supplements are a good bit more complicated though, unless you have a degree in toxicology. Which is why they tell you on the bottle...take one pill by mouth daily....or something along those lines and, I haven't read one in a while, but I remember something about consulting your physician too. So, I ask again....should we assume everyone is to stupid to read and/or follow instructions?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 31, 2012 16:49:25 GMT -5
They don't necessarily say anything on the bottle. Cyanide was sold as a "vitamin" too. Without regulation, they can lie like a rug. How will you know then? If they want to sell arsenic as applesauce who will stop them? Will you take your junior whiz chemistry set and run your very own analysis? i think it is absolutely wrong to make "buyer beware" on stuff like this. i think labeling is good. i think testing is good. if anyone else doesn't, they can certainly go to places where pathogenic shit is sold in the open marketplace for next to nothing, and take their chances.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2012 16:51:58 GMT -5
But DJ once people realize it kills them the free market will weed out the charlatans and we'll be back where we are today but without that pesky FDA running our lives.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 31, 2012 16:52:33 GMT -5
that seems insane to me. the consumer may have no way of knowing that the substance is dangerous if there is no testing protocol, and no liability for false claims. It already happens you just feel protected by the magical government. there is nothing magical about food safety regulations. if you are saying they are not 100% effective, that is true. but they are far better than 0% effective.I call that naive. you can call it whatever you like. but the fact remains that foodbourne illness is way way down since the advent of food safety in the US. if you want to turn back the clock, be my guest. i will help pay for the ticket out of here.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 31, 2012 16:56:18 GMT -5
Come on Tough you know that the history is secretely manufactured by the FDA to convince us that they are needed. None of that stuff really happened. I'll say I am also glad that the FDA exists because I do not have to worry about doctors deciding that while I am in there for surgery Y they are going to use me as a test subject for surgery Z without my consent (there is the exception of if my life is in danger but if you actually read your consent forms that is spelled out in there). There was a lot of really bad stuff done to people before there were watchdog programs in place.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 31, 2012 16:59:26 GMT -5
the government (in PA) eventually stepped in (pun intended) and banned this device, or it would still be being used, probably.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 31, 2012 17:01:11 GMT -5
Vitamin supplements are a good bit more complicated though, unless you have a degree in toxicology. Which is why they tell you on the bottle...take one pill by mouth daily....or something along those lines and, I haven't read one in a while, but I remember something about consulting your physician too. So, I ask again....should we assume everyone is to stupid to read and/or follow instructions? there is such a thing as fair warning. that is a better discussion to have than NO WARNING, imo.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 31, 2012 17:29:10 GMT -5
Still waiting for a response on how the FDA is protecting the consumer from mad cow disease..... ----------------------- Sure, no problem. As of October 26, 2009, a regulation issued by FDA in April 2009 came into effect establishing an enhanced BSE-related feed ban in the United States. This enhanced ban will further harmonize BSE feed control measures in the U.S. with those in Canada (see below). In addition, FDA continues to enforce its important 1997 mammalian-to-ruminant feed ban through its BSE inspection and BSE feed testing programs. www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jan 31, 2012 20:21:13 GMT -5
You can actually drink to much water and it will be harmful. Also eat to much and become grousely over weight and harm the body. The body will absorb only so much in a given time. So moderation is a much healther choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 22:03:20 GMT -5
It already happens you just feel protected by the magical government. there is nothing magical about food safety regulations. if you are saying they are not 100% effective, that is true. but they are far better than 0% effective.I call that naive. you can call it whatever you like. but the fact remains that foodbourne illness is way way down since the advent of food safety in the US. if you want to turn back the clock, be my guest. i will help pay for the ticket out of here. While you bow down and thank government, I will thank modern refrigeration, transporation and education.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 22:07:05 GMT -5
Still waiting for a response on how the FDA is protecting the consumer from mad cow disease..... ----------------------- Sure, no problem. As of October 26, 2009, a regulation issued by FDA in April 2009 came into effect establishing an enhanced BSE-related feed ban in the United States. This enhanced ban will further harmonize BSE feed control measures in the U.S. with those in Canada (see below). In addition, FDA continues to enforce its important 1997 mammalian-to-ruminant feed ban through its BSE inspection and BSE feed testing programs. www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/Day late and a dollar short.... www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RS2170901192005.pdfTry again...
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