rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Aug 8, 2011 7:35:50 GMT -5
Maybe you didn't like their obstruction to the debt ceiling debate but the down grade proves that their position is right, we have to do something to change the fundamentals of our economy now. The tax and spend position supported by the two majority parties over the recent years has taken our country to what should have been an obvious result. The constant argument that we should just increase the taxation on the high wage earners without addressing major spending cuts and government programs or claiming the government should focus on creating jobs without addressing our crazy free trade agreements with countries who do not share our tax structure, regulations or ideals is pure lunacy. Lastly people who oppose this challenge to the way our country does business reminds me of the way Egypt and Iran reacted to people who challenged their governments.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Aug 8, 2011 7:37:38 GMT -5
|
|
Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
Posts: 17,345
Location: NEPA
|
Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 7:42:37 GMT -5
Is the tea party right, or is S&P wrong? I spent a career in credit and collections, and we never used S&P. We viewed others as more reliable. Note, S&P has already admitted to several mistakes in their assessment of our credit rating. Spending has to be addressed, but so does a way to generate additional income. The latter is what the tea partiers fail to acknowledge.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Aug 8, 2011 7:51:28 GMT -5
Is the tea party right, or is S&P wrong? I spent a career in credit and collections, and we never used S&P. We viewed others as more reliable. Note, S&P has already admitted to several mistakes in their assessment of our credit rating. Spending has to be addressed, but so does a way to generate additional income. The latter is what the tea partiers fail to acknowledge. NEW YORK, Aug 8 (Reuters) - Ratings agency Moody's repeated a warning on Monday it could downgrade the United States before 2013 if the fiscal or economic outlook weakens significantly, but said it saw the potential for a new debt agreement in Washington to cut the budget deficit before then. With U.S. markets still to open after rival Standard & Poor's stripped the United States of its AAA rating late on Friday, Moody's said in a statement its own decision to affirm the AAA rating on August 2 was on the condition that further cuts were found. "For the Aaa rating to remain in place, we would look for further measures that would result in the ratio of federal government debt to GDP, for example, peaking not far above the projected 2012 level of near 75 percent by the middle of the decade and then declining over the longer term," Moody's analyst Steven Hess wrote in a report. "Last week's agreement suggests that coming to an agreement that would meet this criterion by early 2013 will be challenging, given the political polarization, but not necessarily impossible." Questions about whether U.S. lawmakers will be able to agree on further budget savings next year lie at the center of the disagreement between the two ratings agencies. While S&P downgraded the United States to AA-plus after last week's debt deal fell short of its expectations, Moody's is willing to give the government more time tackle its debt problems. Moody's said the United States "continues to exhibit the characteristics compatible with a Aaa rating" despite the expected further deterioration in the government's debt metrics in the next few years. "Over time, this status could be threatened if further measures to address the long-term fiscal situation are not adopted, but it is early to conclude that such measures will not be forthcoming," Hess said. (Editing by Patrick Graham) ((walter.brandimarte@thomsonreuters.com; +1 646 223-6319; Messaging: walter.brandimarte.thomsonreuters.com@reuters.net)) Keywords: USA RATINGS/MOODYS
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 8, 2011 7:53:10 GMT -5
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Aug 8, 2011 8:03:17 GMT -5
The Tea Party over reached and Americans are not happy with them. Look at the polls.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Aug 8, 2011 8:08:02 GMT -5
Is the tea party right, or is S&P wrong? I spent a career in credit and collections, and we never used S&P. Assuming you're talking about individual or small business credit / collections, that makes sense. Rating agencies like Fitch, Moody's and S&P only issue credit ratings for financial institutions, brokers, or dealers; insurance companies; corporate issuers; issuers of asset-backed securities; and issuers of government securities, municipal securities, or securities issued by a foreign government.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 8, 2011 8:10:24 GMT -5
That doesn't negate the fact that they're the only hope America has of staving off eventual insolvency.
|
|
Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
Posts: 17,345
Location: NEPA
|
Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 8:30:11 GMT -5
FY, It involved global corporations. The rating did not matter as much as the payment history. This insignificant downgrade would not be as much of a concern as how the debt was handled. The Moody's approach above seems much more reasonable. They are watching the situation, rather than over reacting.
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 8:31:30 GMT -5
The very first thing the tea party did was run up debt ...started a war they couldn't pay for...then taxed the people to pay for what they borrowed.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Aug 8, 2011 8:32:50 GMT -5
That doesn't negate the fact that they're the only hope America has of staving off eventual insolvency. WRONG...We would have had a 4+ TRILLION Dollar BUDGET CUT if the Tea Party had compromised like everyone else did. And AMericans know this. Then we would not have had a downgrade.
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 8:41:04 GMT -5
S& P's doesn't seem to think so-----"We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.”
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 8:41:55 GMT -5
I think letting Grover Norquist lead them by the nose was a mistake.
|
|
Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
Posts: 17,345
Location: NEPA
|
Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 8:43:45 GMT -5
In the end, congress will find a way to work around the tea party. Those who want to be re-elected will reach across the aisle and compromise, while the tea partiers remain entrenched in their fantasy.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Aug 8, 2011 8:47:35 GMT -5
In the end, congress will find a way to work around the tea party. Those who want to be re-elected will reach across the aisle and compromise, while the tea partiers remain entrenched in their fantasy. Then why did both S&P and Moody's say that they doubt that the government is capable of managing the nation's debt and issued a warning that another downgrade is likely by the end of this yea????r...they think the outlook is NEGATIVE.. and so does Wall St with the Dow selling off this AM
|
|
Driftr
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 10, 2011 13:08:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,478
|
Post by Driftr on Aug 8, 2011 8:51:38 GMT -5
Of course the Tea Party was right. Too many people have become too dependent on big government to realize that yet. But they will eventually come to realize it when they stop getting their piece of the .gov cheese.
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 8:54:30 GMT -5
double post
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 8:56:01 GMT -5
Kinda like those teaparty patriots in congress that get farm subsidies?
|
|
Driftr
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 10, 2011 13:08:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,478
|
Post by Driftr on Aug 8, 2011 8:57:21 GMT -5
Kinda like those teaparty patriots in congress that get farm subsidies? Exactly. Who are they again?
|
|
Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
Posts: 17,345
Location: NEPA
|
Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 8:59:06 GMT -5
PI, Moody's is looking at something by 2013. S&P is a joke, but what does that have to do with congress reaching across the aisle and around the tea partiers? That is what is going to happen and has happened to these obstructionist factions in the past. The tp has to learn that you don't mess with career politicians, without getting bloodied. Should be interesting to watch.
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 9:04:37 GMT -5
|
|
Driftr
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 10, 2011 13:08:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,478
|
Post by Driftr on Aug 8, 2011 9:17:12 GMT -5
It's good to see that they're sound business people taking advantage of the government cheese, but that they also realize they should do away with it.
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 9:22:15 GMT -5
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Aug 8, 2011 9:34:33 GMT -5
PI, Moody's is looking at something by 2013. S&P is a joke... Moodys and S&P are the two largest NRSRO's with around 40% market share each. The third largest is Fitch with around 15% market share. That's a pretty nice chunk of business for a "joke" if you ask me.
|
|
Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
Posts: 17,345
Location: NEPA
|
Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 9:44:56 GMT -5
Their lack of thoroughness and mistakes made, have bestowed the joke status on S&P.
|
|
Driftr
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 10, 2011 13:08:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,478
|
Post by Driftr on Aug 8, 2011 9:53:37 GMT -5
|
|
ugonow
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:15:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 9:55:29 GMT -5
|
|
cme1201
Junior Associate
Tennis Elbow, Jock Itch, and Athletes Foot, every man has a sports life!
Joined: Apr 6, 2011 13:55:07 GMT -5
Posts: 5,503
|
Post by cme1201 on Aug 8, 2011 9:55:49 GMT -5
This blame only one side is ridiculous, both sides the middle and the trumpeter are the ones responsible, not one party, not one extreme side of the party, BOTH parties, BOTH extreme views are reason for what happened and where we are. Never came to paper and as the CBO stated they can't price speeches. Obama calls for tax hikes, budget cuts to pare $4T Denounces GOP’s deficit remedy as assault on the elderly and poor Specifically, Mr. Obama said he will try to squeeze an extra $360 billion by 2023 from automatic spending programs, which are based on formulas and not renewed by Congress each year; seek to grab an additional $480 billion from Medicare; and cut defense spending by $400 billion versus projected levels and another $200 billion in regular domestic spending. In many of those cases, he said, he is just setting parameters and expects others to suggest or actually make the cuts. In Medicare, for example, he said the new payments board set up in last year’s health care law will clamp down tighter on cost increases, while he will have his defense secretary figure out where military funding can be cut. Mr. Obama claimed his new plan would reduce projected deficits by $4 trillion by 2023, slightly more than the amount the debt accumulated during his term of office. www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/13/obama-calls-for-tax-hikes-budget-cuts-to-pare-4t/There was a proposal made in speeches from April 10th to April 14th of this year of Obama touting his 4 trillion plan, yet it has never been placed on paper from the White House, Senate nor HoR, In April when he called out the Republicans for there proposal to slash 4.4 T from the Budget he came out swinging the words on what he would like yet, he never directed his party to pick up the pen and make it happen. No where on paper where it could be graded and judged.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Aug 8, 2011 9:59:15 GMT -5
Their lack of thoroughness and mistakes made, have bestowed the joke status on S&P. I'd dare to say that they are all pretty much a joke in the bond rating department since it is usually the bond issuers that pay these ratings agencies. Just a bit of a conflict there, IMHO. ETA: Pulled the "Post" trigger too quick.... Even if you consider S&P a joke, with 40% market share, apparently somebody takes them seriously. The warnings issued by both S&P and Moody's were brushed off by government and nothing came out of this debt ceiling deal but more debt. I think our government should see this for what it is....a shot across the bow. If this ship isn't turned around now, the next shot may equate to a torpedo right in the gut.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 15:22:07 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2011 10:11:11 GMT -5
Maybe you didn't like their obstruction to the debt ceiling debate but the down grade proves that their position is right,
How can anyone not realize that we can't keep borrowing & spending the way that we have? How can anyone read about the rating agencies comments & not understand that we are moving further out on a limb? If one rating agency says downgrade now & another says downgrade in 2 years, they are both saying the same thing, one just has tighter standards than the other. Argue & nitpick all you want but the writing is on the wall for the way this country is heading.
Of course the Tea Party was right. Too many people have become too dependent on big government to realize that yet. But they will eventually come to realize it when they stop getting their piece of the .gov cheese. Kinda like those teaparty patriots in congress that get farm subsidies?
If a person votes to make murder a crime & then goes home & murders his family that does not make his vote any more wrong & you as a reasonable adult should see that. The point is that you shouldn't murder, not that someone did murder & then votes to make it a crime. To argue that it's ok to kill someone BECAUSE someone that voted to make it a crime had killed someone is unreasonable & not logical. It's just another piece of "bent" logic.
|
|