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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2011 10:15:53 GMT -5
In the end, congress will find a way to work around the tea party.
The obvious & unspoken here is "Congress will find a way to work around the Tea Party.....Unless they are replaced by them". That could be a danger since 1. Some Tea Party people have been elected & 2. So far those that were elected have come closer to doing what they said that they would do than any other party in recent history. While it's never been tried before, it just might earn votes from people if politicians actually do what they say they will do.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 10:48:50 GMT -5
oldtex, the tea party has proven they are unpopular. Last I knew, popularity won elections. Most of them are gone next election. Congress will work around them to get business as usual done, and they will become inconsequential. Remember the "contract with america"? That didn't last either, but it too was gonna change the world. I have faith in our corrupt congress never changing, despite efforts of the well intentioned (but misguided).
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 10:52:26 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 8, 2011 10:59:49 GMT -5
In the end, congress will find a way to work around the tea party. The obvious & unspoken here is "Congress will find a way to work around the Tea Party.....Unless they are replaced by them". hahaha. replaces them.....
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Aug 8, 2011 11:00:40 GMT -5
First, let's take the first exit out of that "killing other people" argument; it was headed right towards Sillyville and was a terrible and histrionic analogy. How about something new and refreshing like talking about the point at hand directly? Analogies can make good frosting, but you gotta have a cake as a foundation. Your analogy breaks down because there are 2 closely related but different crimes. The things Tea Party people want to get rid of, and things they're "keeping," like farm subsidies. Shouldn't they look at both things to cut? (I don't recall anyone talking about farm subsidies during talks.) You know, fairness and all that? Or are you in favor of hypocrisy in terms of "everyone stop getting the government cheese but me and other well to do Congressmen"? Anyways, since Tea Party Congressmen (we see you Michelle Bachmann and your farm, etc. subsidies) want one thing cut but not their own, nobody is committing the Tu quoque fallacy. Well it highlights a Conservative value: Welfare for poor people = BAD! Welfare for rich people = GOOD! Also note that in the analogy, the Tea Party patriots who get farm subsidies are somehow painted as the victims. You know Conservatives just love to whip out that victim card.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 11:04:59 GMT -5
Don't forget those poor oil companies that get subsidies!
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Aug 8, 2011 11:06:38 GMT -5
That doesn't negate the fact that they're the only hope America has of staving off eventual insolvency. WRONG...We would have had a 4+ TRILLION Dollar BUDGET CUT if the Tea Party had compromised like everyone else did. And AMericans know this. Then we would not have had a downgrade. Seriously...you can't be that partisan in spouting this BS.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Aug 8, 2011 11:08:28 GMT -5
The Tea Party over reached and Americans are not happy with them. Look at the polls. Go figure, somebody saying the government can be everything to everybody is demonized by the media as extreme and many people swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Of course if we kept along the same course, in the not too distant future people will be complaining that we should have done something sooner.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 8, 2011 11:09:21 GMT -5
Maybe you didn't like their obstruction to the debt ceiling debate but the down grade proves that their position is right Not necessarily. The downgrade could have been part of a self-fullfilling prophecy. The tea-party makes a huge fuss about the US having too much debt, refusing to consider raising taxes, saying we can no longer afford those debts, & saying they won't raise the debt ceiling. This leads to a huge disturbance in washington, talk of what will happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised & the possibility of default. Now the entire world is paying very close attention to what is usually just a simple debt ceiling vote that passes with little controversy. Had the tea-party not turned this into a huge drama, then perhaps no one would have thought the US might default & we aren't as credit worthy as we once were. To me this is like telling you credit card company you may no longer be able to pay your bill & then getting upset when they lower your limit. You flat out told them you are a credit risk, so you can't be surprised by the consequences.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Aug 8, 2011 11:11:04 GMT -5
It's scary how many people have such an issue with somebody trying to control spending....those evil check balancers looking out for future generations.....
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 8, 2011 12:05:12 GMT -5
To me this is like telling you credit card company you may no longer be able to pay your bill & then getting upset when they lower your limit. You flat out told them you are a credit risk, so you can't be surprised by the consequences. So....truth about our federal financial house of cards is a bad thing? Maybe the politicians should just keep lying to us? Ignorance is bliss? Would it be better to wait until there is a real threat of default before we actually admit we have a spending problem is DC? I tried to ignore my growing deficit on a personal level. It didn't work out too well.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 12:15:22 GMT -5
It's scary how many people have such an issue with somebody trying to control spending....those evil check balancers looking out for future generations..... I am impressed by example. Let's start with cutting congressional salaries by 50% and also cutting the 30,000 congressional staffers by 50%. Then we can move on to oil company subsidies, etc. Come on tea party, show us you are serious. Every good boss I ever had, took a cut first if it was necessary in down times.
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Post by magichat on Aug 8, 2011 12:17:59 GMT -5
Blue,
Who cares if you lead by example if it means an 0.01% change in the deficit. Nobody seems prepared to make real cuts, not even the TP.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 8, 2011 12:27:13 GMT -5
I disagree, magichat. I think many are quite willing to make real cuts as long as those cuts don't just target certain, more vulnerable groups. If the populace is going to have to tighten its collective belt, I think we're willing to do that provided we see congress, big business, and the government in general willing to tighten theirs, as well. So far, we haven't seen that.
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Post by magichat on Aug 8, 2011 12:32:54 GMT -5
I disagree, magichat. I think many are quite willing to make real cuts as long as those cuts don't just target certain, more vulnerable groups. If the populace is going to have to tighten its collective belt, I think we're willing to do that provided we see congress, big business, and the government in general willing to tighten theirs, as well. So far, we haven't seen that. And there it is, he old adage of people dying in the streets. God that is such a tired argument, taking it somebody who gives a crap, because right now I look in my kid's eyes and I am very scared at what I am leaving to them.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 12:33:24 GMT -5
magic, I want the symbolism the tp is so big on, like their symbolic laws! We could easily do with 15,000 congressional staffers. I do not agree with targeting the poorest citizens who have no lobby or check book to defend them. Frugality begins at home. The tp is a vile bunch of misfits as far as I am concerned. They hate their fellow man, and want to make the downtrodden more miserable. Let's cut all subsidies and all foreign aid first. If our troops are really needed overseas, let the host nations pay us for being there, etc. There are many cuts that can be made before targeting citizens. Yes, eventually, we will have to raise revenue.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Aug 8, 2011 12:36:27 GMT -5
The very first thing the tea party did was run up debt ...started a war they couldn't pay for...then taxed the people to pay for what they borrowed. The Tea Party didn't start the war in Afghanistan. The Tea Party didn't start the war in Iraq. The Tea Party didn't start the war in Libya. The Tea Party didn't tax anyone. Congress and the President start wars. Congress raises or lowers taxes.
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Driftr
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Post by Driftr on Aug 8, 2011 12:38:04 GMT -5
If you cut costs enough, there should be no need to raise revenue. I agree that first on the block should be foreign aid and any soldier stationed in a foreign country coming home. Fine by me if we cut Congressional salaries and staff levels in half. Great idea IMO. A reduced Federal Govt should not require all those staffers.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 12:38:42 GMT -5
I was refering to the original tea party....
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Post by magichat on Aug 8, 2011 12:38:44 GMT -5
magic, I want the symbolism the tp is so big on, like their symbolic laws! We could easily do with 15,000 congressional staffers. I do not agree with targeting the poorest citizens who have no lobby or check book to defend them. Frugality begins at home. The tp is a vile bunch of misfits as far as I am concerned. They hate their fellow man, and want to make the downtrodden more miserable. Let's cut all subsidies and all foreign aid first. If our troops are really needed overseas, let the host nations pay us for being there, etc. There are many cuts that can be made before targeting citizens. Yes, eventually, we will have to raise revenue. I don't hate my fellow citizen, but I do hate that they get my money at the point of a gun or did you somehow forget that?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Aug 8, 2011 12:41:24 GMT -5
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 12:44:56 GMT -5
Magic, only when they mug you, because they can't get help from the govt!
Even cutting the budget is still going to require revenue, since the debt is so massive. Thanks pubs for two wars. Thanks Barry for Libya.
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Post by magichat on Aug 8, 2011 12:47:11 GMT -5
Magic, only when they mug you, because they can't get help from the govt! Even cutting the budget is still going to require revenue, since the debt is so massive. Thanks pubs for two wars. Thanks Barry for Libya. If only that were true, try not paying your taxes for a year or two and see what shows up on your front lawn.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 12:50:24 GMT -5
Be glad you can pay them.
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Post by magichat on Aug 8, 2011 12:52:39 GMT -5
Be glad you can pay them. I'm not given a choice, or did you miss the fact that automatic payroll deduction is pretty much a requirment and if you underpay by too much there is a penalty. Freedom my ass. Fuck your excuses to take my money.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Aug 8, 2011 12:56:41 GMT -5
Magic, I thank you for paying on my behalf. This year, I will owe little or nothing. All income is from pensions and capitol gains. I am aware of the penalties, and file quarterlies when necessary. I prepaid money I won't owe this year, to avoid penalties, since I won't owe this year.
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Driftr
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Post by Driftr on Aug 8, 2011 12:57:31 GMT -5
Be glad you can pay them. I'm not given a choice, or did you miss the fact that automatic payroll deduction is pretty much a requirment and if you underpay by too much there is a penalty. Freedom my ass. Fuck your excuses to take my money. Right on!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 8, 2011 12:57:58 GMT -5
I disagree, magichat. I think many are quite willing to make real cuts as long as those cuts don't just target certain, more vulnerable groups. If the populace is going to have to tighten its collective belt, I think we're willing to do that provided we see congress, big business, and the government in general willing to tighten theirs, as well. So far, we haven't seen that. And there it is, he old adage of people dying in the streets. God that is such a tired argument, taking it somebody who gives a crap, because right now I look in my kid's eyes and I am very scared at what I am leaving to them. Where, in my post, do you see anything about people dying in the streets, magichat? If you're going to leap into melodrama, please do it with your posts, not mine.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 8, 2011 13:01:23 GMT -5
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Post by magichat on Aug 8, 2011 13:02:42 GMT -5
And there it is, he old adage of people dying in the streets. God that is such a tired argument, taking it somebody who gives a crap, because right now I look in my kid's eyes and I am very scared at what I am leaving to them. Where, in my post, do you see anything about people dying in the streets, magichat? If you're going to leap into melodrama, please do it with your posts, not mine. Sorry my bad, you must have meant CEOs of Fortune 500 companies when you said certain more vulnerable groups.
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