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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 10, 2011 8:35:13 GMT -5
Again...the government needs to get out of our lives!
The government has reasons for their marijuana policies if you were in the military in the 60s and 70s because alcohol and drug use nearly ruined the service's ability to perform their tasks until this issue was dealt with and resolved in the 80s..
I worked for a Major who set on the board of inquiry into drug use in the military and read some of the findings which were very troubling at that time..especially in Far East Asia..
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 8:40:04 GMT -5
Some good info CME, I noticed in here how it mentions that marijuana could lead to more extreme drugs. I don't believe it is a gateway drug at all, I believe it all depends on the social atmosphere. It really depends on the people you hang around and the peer pressure. If it is a case to where it is a gateway drug, cigarettes should be considered the true gateway drug.
I am in no way advertising the use of drugs, but if you look at our history you can see multiple great thinkers, artist, literature geniuses, great actors and musicians that have abused drugs. So who is to say that drugs aren't a tool for greatness?You can believe whatever you want about marijuana and dismiss the medical reports by a government agency and go with one from Great Britain. It is an individual choice to smoke, drink or do drugs and if that is your thing then so be it.. I have no problem with the use of marijuana for medical purposes it it indeeds helps but I don't want my kids smoking anything period but that is my choice.. It took me a lot of years just to get my oldest daughter to stop smoking cigarettes but I finally won that one.. I think that is great that you want your children to not smoke at all. I am just arguing the point that it isn't as bad as the government puts it out to be, obviously smoking anything isn't really healthy for you but it is the a person choice that matters. I am similar in the same thinking as you PI, I don't want my kids to eat conventional foods. There was research I read from a professor at a universty in Arizona that shows eating conventional foods compared to organic produce a signification amount of herbicides/pesticides in the blood of young children(forgot the age range). You don't see the government making it illegal for pesticides/herbicides being used because they damaging lung and kidney functions. I think government shouldn't have a say in our personal choices unless it directly does harm to other people, like murder, rape or abuse. You still have to be proven guilty in those, but if you smoke weed for personal use you are only harming yourself.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 8:47:01 GMT -5
Again...the government needs to get out of our lives! The government has reasons for their marijuana policies if you were in the military in the 60s and 70s because alcohol and drug use nearly ruined the service's ability to perform their tasks until this issue was dealt with and resolved in the 80s.. I worked for a Major who set on the board of inquiry into drug use in the military and read some of the findings which were very troubling at that time..especially in Far East Asia.. Drug use pertains to cigarettes too, so the reference with the Major is pointless( I am sure he was directing it at more extreme drug than marijuana though). Drug use in the military is different. If they say if you want in you can't use drugs well that is part of the deal. I am sure they have drugs in the military(like shots, medicine ect) that have side effects that causes problems too.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 10, 2011 8:47:07 GMT -5
Marijuana, and alcohol use did a lot of damage to the military from @1965 - @ 1980 ..but it is probably something that the general public is not aware of or couldn't give a dam about .. What turned this situation around was an increase on proper nutrition, physical fitness, and counselling and more medical help for those who had addiction issue and getting to the root cause of their addictions...so I am sure the government saw those reports and considers them now...but just one man's opinion..
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 8:51:21 GMT -5
Marijuana, and alcohol use did a lot of damage to the military from @1965 - @ 1980 ..but it is probably something that the general public is not aware of or couldn't give a dam about .. What turned this situation around was an increase on proper nutrition, physical fitness, and counselling and more medical help for those who had addiction issue and getting to the root cause of their addictions...so I am sure the government saw those reports and considers them now...but just one man's opinion.. If that is the case then I think they should make alcohol, cigarettes and prescriptions drugs illegal since they do more or just as much damage a marijuana.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 10, 2011 8:54:56 GMT -5
Soldiers in Vietnam smoked marijuana and took other drugs who would not do so at home. A soldier's friends become extremely important; new soldiers adhere to behavior of members of their group. Marine commander Major Ives W. Neely claimed "at least 70 to 80 percent" use within his company. Marines would catch a new man as he reported into the unit, instructing him that if he was going to buy marijuana he would buy it from them. If anyone told, turned in any of their names, "there were ways to do these people in." [16]
When young men, many still teenagers, are in a strange land and surrounded by enemies (real and potential), they do not have to be cajoled into assuming the habits of their new friends who proceeded them to Vietnam. One former Marine related his first experience with marijuana in the form of hashish. He was with a small group guarding the Hai Van Pass, certainly one of the most beautiful places in Asia in terms of physical geography. Fresh water flowed in a pipe on a hill near an oil refinery and emptied into the South China Sea. Vietnamese fishermen would come ashore while the Marines bathed in the pipeline outflow. For ten piasters (about ten cents), the Marines could buy French bread, hashish, and fresh lobsters from the Vietnamese. The Marines smoked the hashish in a pipe fashioned out of a M-14 shell casing. With their appetites stimulated from the hashish, they ate the bread. The lobsters were flash-fried in a helmet. Cooking fuel was provided by plastic explosives (C-4), which burns vigorously when ignited. This practice was a common one for the platoon guarding the oil refinery at the Hai Van Pass in 1965. [17] It was a practice that would prove impossible to eradicate.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 10, 2011 8:56:29 GMT -5
If that is the case then I think they should make alcohol, cigarettes and prescriptions drugs illegal since they do more or just as much damage a marijuana.
Yea right...cigarettes and alcohol will never become illegal in this country but marijuana is ...so you have to abide by our laws or ignore them ...your choice.. I tried to point out some examples of marijuana being an issue in the military but as I thought you could care less..but at least I tried to make a point ..
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 10, 2011 9:10:57 GMT -5
Again...the government needs to get out of our lives! The government has reasons for their marijuana policies if you were in the military in the 60s and 70s because alcohol and drug use nearly ruined the service's ability to perform their tasks until this issue was dealt with and resolved in the 80s.. I worked for a Major who set on the board of inquiry into drug use in the military and read some of the findings which were very troubling at that time..especially in Far East Asia.. Then let the military to police their policies. That should have nothing to do with some poor cancer patient who is growing and using it. Marine commander Major Ives W. Neely claimed "at least 70 to 80 percent" use within his company. Marines would catch a new man as he reported into the unit, instructing him that if he was going to buy marijuana he would buy it from them. If anyone told, turned in any of their names, "there were ways to do these people in." [16] It doesn't have anything to do with the poor cancer patient..not in the least but does indeed have something to do with the teenagers who want to excel in both academics or athletics...IMHO and as one who saw first hand the effects of 70 to 80 percent use of marijuana in some line companies a long time ago....hard to forgot those days.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 9:54:36 GMT -5
If that is the case then I think they should make alcohol, cigarettes and prescriptions drugs illegal since they do more or just as much damage a marijuana. Yea right...cigarettes and alcohol will never become illegal in this country but marijuana is ...so you have to abide by our laws or ignore them ...your choice.. I tried to point out some examples of marijuana being an issue in the military but as I thought you could care less..but at least I tried to make a point .. You did make some examples there, but you did it with hashish. Hashish is over 100 times more potent than marijuana. Hashish is an extreme drug. I agree Hashish would be bad for any military usage. Still no examples of marijuana so you pointed out nothing. And the last example with the major where you stated alcohol and drugs only proves that alcohol should be illegal. So what you are saying is as long as it is legal then it is good? Just because it is a law does not make it right or wrong. I follow right or wrong not laws made from greed. I don't have to abide by them as long as I don't get caught . I am sure that you never were speeding and broken the law right, what difference does it make. Speeding can actually kill people. Your logic of abiding by law is severely flawed.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 10, 2011 9:58:04 GMT -5
Still no examples of marijuana so you pointed out nothing.
I thought you would say that...deny, deny, deny...and I was talking about marijuana specifically in my comments....whether it is called it is still marijuana and an illegal drug..
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 9:58:32 GMT -5
Then let the military to police their policies. That should have nothing to do with some poor cancer patient who is growing and using it. Marine commander Major Ives W. Neely claimed "at least 70 to 80 percent" use within his company. Marines would catch a new man as he reported into the unit, instructing him that if he was going to buy marijuana he would buy it from them. If anyone told, turned in any of their names, "there were ways to do these people in." [16] It doesn't have anything to do with the poor cancer patient..not in the least but does indeed have something to do with the teenagers who want to excel in both academics or athletics...IMHO and as one who saw first hand the effects of 70 to 80 percent use of marijuana in some line companies a long time ago....hard to forgot those days. I actually think more people use now than in the 70's and 80's and I know plenty of doctor's, accountants, artist and other professionals. I am curious as to how they are doctors or professional skilled people if they smoke marijuana. Oh wait alcohol actually kills brains cells(damages your mental functionality) where as marijuana doesn't. Oh so you know you your brain cells don't replenish. Never mind alcohol is legal so it must be alright.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 10, 2011 10:02:25 GMT -5
Marine commander Major Ives W. Neely claimed "at least 70 to 80 percent" use within his company. Marines would catch a new man as he reported into the unit, instructing him that if he was going to buy marijuana he would buy it from them. If anyone told, turned in any of their names, "there were ways to do these people in." [16] It doesn't have anything to do with the poor cancer patient..not in the least but does indeed have something to do with the teenagers who want to excel in both academics or athletics...IMHO and as one who saw first hand the effects of 70 to 80 percent use of marijuana in some line companies a long time ago....hard to forgot those days. I actually think more people use now than in the 70's and 80's and I know plenty of doctor's, accountants, artist and other professionals. I am curious as to how they are doctors or professional skilled people if they smoke marijuana. Oh wait alcohol actually kills brains cells(damages your mental functionality) where as marijuana doesn't. Oh so you know you your brain cells don't replenish. Never mind alcohol is legal so it must be alright. Because they chose to use marijuana so what?? Does that comment mean it is ok for general use?? Lame, lame argument. C'Ya..got to leave P.I. (I was anti-marijuana before it was cool)
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 10:03:57 GMT -5
Still no examples of marijuana so you pointed out nothing. What you want me to give you real life examples where people that moderately smoke marijuana are successful? I know A P.A. that makes over $50 an hour. I know an electrical engineer that makes 75k a year. I know cardiologist, not sure how much she makes. I know a mechanic that runs 3 different auto shops. I could go on and on, I won't give personal names because it is not respectful and I don't have their permission.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 10:05:51 GMT -5
I actually think more people use now than in the 70's and 80's and I know plenty of doctor's, accountants, artist and other professionals. I am curious as to how they are doctors or professional skilled people if they smoke marijuana. Oh wait alcohol actually kills brains cells(damages your mental functionality) where as marijuana doesn't. Oh so you know you your brain cells don't replenish. Never mind alcohol is legal so it must be alright. Because they chose to use marijuana so what?? Does that comment mean it is ok for general use?? Lame, lame argument. C'Ya..got to leave P.I. (I was anti-marijuana before it was cool) no, it does not I am just disproving you logic and reasoning for being anti-marijuana. You can choose not to like something, but that doesn't make you right.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 10:09:15 GMT -5
When people look at a situation they collect as much information as possible to come to the truth about something by using reasoning and facts. Having a personal opinion and being passionate(emotional) about it just overrides reason which ends up leading to ignorance.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 10:13:19 GMT -5
The bottom line here is that if someone wants to use Mj they will. It's freely available in every state in the united states & it's IMPOSSIBLE to stop it's use.
The MAJOR side effects of Maj is 1. It fills up our prisons with people arrested for dealing in it. 2. The people you have to associate with to buy it from (they sell other drugs). So if it were legalized that would remove the main 2 drawbacks to it. Does it kill brain cells (or such).....Who cares? People are going to do what people are going to do. I figure that it can't be more dangerous than someone jumping off a bridge with an elastic cord tied to their feet & that's legal.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 10:31:09 GMT -5
The bottom line here is that if someone wants to use Mj they will. It's freely available in every state in the united states & it's IMPOSSIBLE to stop it's use. The MAJOR side effects of Maj is 1. It fills up our prisons with people arrested for dealing in it. 2. The people you have to associate with to buy it from (they sell other drugs). So if it were legalized that would remove the main 2 drawbacks to it. Does it kill brain cells (or such).....Who cares? People are going to do what people are going to do. I figure that it can't be more dangerous than someone jumping off a bridge with an elastic cord tied to their feet & that's legal. I agree with most of what you say. I am not here countering PI's logic because I hate him or think poorly of him at all. I debate topics for the sake of better reasoning on a situation. It is like a person building rocket with little info/experience or building a rocket with a large amount of info/experience, you just don't assume the first is right or good enough. "Who cares?" You should always care enough about each subject for awareness. Not caring leads to ignorance on subjects which could possibly matter in the future. Maybe you meant "who cares?" in a different meaning of the words you actually used? If I look like a critic , it is positive criticism or I would prefer to call it informational awareness.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 10:56:07 GMT -5
Two things on some of the researchy things posted. 1) there is always some impact of a drug. If you note though, the amounts and effects make canibus comparable to alcohol , not heroin and opium with which it is classified. 2) there will always be correlation between alcohol/ similar drugs .... And psychosis...because people with those problems frequently choose to self medicate 3) when you look at self meding with canibus... It actually has a lot less... And less harsh... Impact than what pharma is currently pushing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 10:56:39 GMT -5
Ok so that was 3 things .
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 10, 2011 11:02:12 GMT -5
The gist of the OP, as I read it, was the government's claim that marijuana has no legitimate medical use. That is patently untrue. We're not talking about kids smoking pot in the alley here. We're talking about the use of marijuana to deal with legitimate medical problems. Kids smoking in the alley and medical use aren't the same thing and don't belong in the same discussion, IMO.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 10, 2011 11:42:09 GMT -5
I am no expert on the weed but I can relate to 3 first hand incidents. One a guy higher than a kite on the weed lost control of his car and ran over a 8 year old child.. Of course alcohol would have caused the same problem possibly. The second is my younger brother who at 35 ended up and is a vegetable basically in a nursing home from wrecking his car while stoned and sister who were heavy users into their thirties Now she has memory, coordination and speech problems along with issues with her kidneys due to the use heavy use according to the specialists who treated her. True there are proscribed drugs that can cause issues if the doctors instructions are not followed closely. Cocaine was a legal drug until the late twenties and found in most tonics and remedies including Coca Cola. But better heads prevailed and stopped the open market use of the drug. All drugs have consequences so why legalize the public freedom of use of something that is harmful? I sure don't want to meet someone stoned or drunk meeting me on the road. The claim that the weed does not harm a person physically is BS I have seen it first hand.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 11:44:35 GMT -5
1) so does alcohol... Should we go back to prohibition? 2) cocaine is schedule II ... Less restricted than pot.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 10, 2011 12:24:06 GMT -5
I don't know the effect Marijuana has on the body because I don't use it, but I do know many who are growing and using it and they could care less that it's illegal or what the FDA classifies it as. If people want it, they'll get it and the government is wasting OUR tax money chasing these people around. IMHO the only reason the FDA is against it is that if sick users are getting some relief from it, they aren't buying all the expensive crap big pharm is selling, drugs that I've seen do more damage to the body than pot ever could. And another thing, we don't have people here shooting each other over it, nor, since it so available, do we have the problems with the harder drugs. My only problem with it is that those using it seem so mellowed out that they don't want to go to work. It's easier for them to lie around all day stoned and let the government take care of them. However, that could easily be taken care of by removing the entitlements. (Another topic) Again...the government needs to get out of our lives! agreed. spoken like a true libertarian.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 10, 2011 14:05:30 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you say. I am not here countering PI's logic because I hate him or think poorly of him at all. I debate topics for the sake of better reasoning on a situation. It is like a person building rocket with little info/experience or building a rocket with a large amount of info/experience, you just don't assume the first is right or good enough
This is not rocket science if you want to use marijuana for whatever reasons and believe it is OK to do so, then be my guest... I merely pointed out some negative effects of using marijuana in the roaring 60s and 70s....does the negative outweigh the positive effects? I have no idea and really don't care.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 10, 2011 14:07:42 GMT -5
Everyone here has most likely known and/or dealt with a pot smoker and didn't even know it. all this pearl clutching over pot....
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 10, 2011 14:11:30 GMT -5
Everyone here has most likely known and/or dealt with a pot smoker and didn't even know it. all this pearl clutching over pot.... 40% of all Americans have consumed pot at some time in their lives.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 10, 2011 14:18:22 GMT -5
Everyone here has most likely known and/or dealt with a pot smoker and didn't even know it. all this pearl clutching over pot.... 40% of all Americans have consumed pot at some time in their lives. exactly....and people here have probably dealt with at least 1 or 2 that they had NO clue that the person went home and rolled up a fatty each night.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 10, 2011 14:21:08 GMT -5
I'm going to a Motley Crue concert tonight.... I'll do some "hands on" research about the devil weed......hehehehehehehe
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Jul 10, 2011 14:27:46 GMT -5
40% of all Americans have consumed pot at some time in their lives. Can't go too far with that reasoning. There was a time when at least 40% of Americans thought slavery was OK. Plus, it doesn't account for some of the 40% who once tried pot, but now think it should be illegal. Personally, I prefer the line of thought posted by lonewolf. And like Steff, I don't see what all the hubbub is about. Pot has become a 'who cares, it's inevitable' issue IMO, except for an increasingly small number of intense opponents. The pendulum has swung too far to return to the times of Anslinger, which resulted in life sentences for possession in some states. Joe Banker not withstanding.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 10, 2011 14:31:00 GMT -5
40% of all Americans have consumed pot at some time in their lives. Can't go too far with that reasoning. There was a time when at least 40% of Americans thought slavery was OK. Plus, it doesn't account for some of the 40% who once tried pot, but now think it should be illegal. Personally, I prefer the line of thought posted by lonewolf. And like Steff, I don't see what all the hubbub is about. Pot has become a 'who cares, it's inevitable' issue IMO, except for an increasingly small number of intense opponents. The pendulum has swung too far to return to the times of Anslinger, which resulted in life sentences for possession in some states. Joe Banker not withstanding. i also agree with lonewolf. said so earlier this thread. i just think it is silly to criminalize an activity in which 40% of our citizenry has partaken.
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