What do you think of education in US public school

[NoMoreLunacy]

I think it sucks and the international curriculum is far ahead. But instead of bringing it up to international standards we are caught up in debating over teaching religion disguised as science.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Most of the people I know obtained their education from U.S. public schools and they are intelligent, bright, interesting, well-rounded, gainfully employed, upstanding citizens. So, while I agree that there remains room for improvement with U.S. public schools, I'd say that they still manage to turn out some amazing, bright, intelligent and educated people.

(I should note that my education was a mixture of public school and 5 years of being held hostage in Catholic School!) My undergraduate degrees were from a state university, but my doctorate was from a private university. So, I guess I'm a "hybrid!"

[Deleted]

I know we used Singapore Math this year and i wish i'd used it all along with son. Excellent...

I think public school has its place. I think that the government should provide basic, equalizing services, which are necessary to maintain subsistance and provide for a stable, perpetuating, democratic republic. If we don't have an informed citizenry, if they don't have basic needs met... it threatens our country.

There are people for whom public education is a blessing. They come from families that don't value education, never go to a library, don't own books... etc. Public education gives them a chance they would not otherwise have. Public education also provides a basic education for many other students... I don't think it does nearly as good a job as it could. But in the end, i don't know that it can be all things to all people... just like other government programs... basic, sustanance level... and just like many other government programs... i choose not to use it... cause i can do better on my own...

[NoMoreLunacy]

I am not arguing against public education. I think it's not only a noble idea, it is indispensable to development of a civil society. I am arguing for improving the standards. Europeans also have public schooling, but they follow a much more rigorous and demanding standard. USA can, too. To say that USA did just fine without is a cop out. I don't understand the pushback. Consider Singapore math for example. Far, far advanced than US public school math.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jun 18, 2011 17:24:50 GMT -5 NoMoreLunacy said:

I think it sucks and the international curriculum is far ahead. But instead of bringing it up to international standards we are caught up in debating over teaching religion disguised as science.

...which international standard, for instance?

[Deleted]

I think the issue is more our idea that EVERY child needs the same education. A superior and more rigorous STANDARD is only possible if you are not educating everyone.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

They are trying to improve standards in California schools and have implemented the High School Exit Exam. And now people are complaining that too few students are passing, and that they are being irreparably harmed by not being able to obtain high school diplomas.

All about the California High School Exit Exam ... www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/hs/cefcahsee.asp

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jun 18, 2011 17:53:39 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

They are trying to improve standards in California schools and have implemented the High School Exit Exam. And now people are complaining that too few students are passing, and that they are being irreparably harmed by not being able to obtain high school diplomas.

All about the California High School Exit Exam ... www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/hs/cefcahsee.asp

...pass 'em up, huh?

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

I think the problem is that they've raised the standards to graduate (which is a good thing), but that they haven't necessarily changed or improved the teaching necessary to help most students pass (which seems to me to be a bad thing.) To me, raising the standards is only part of the equation ... something else needs to be done to ensure that students can meet the raised standards....

[Deleted]

I think its perfectly acceptable to say "This is the standard you must meet in order to graduate from high school with an academic diploma." ...

I think it is unreasonable to suggest that ALL children should be able to meet this standard. The only way you can have all children meet the same standard, is if it is a low one... and even then...

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jun 18, 2011 17:58:53 GMT -5 oped said:

I think its perfectly acceptable to say "This is the standard you must meet in order to graduate from high school with an academic diploma." ...

I think it is unreasonable to suggest that ALL children should be able to meet this standard. The only way you can have all children meet the same standard, is if it is a low one... and even then...

...thinking...

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 18, 2011 17:52:12 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

Jun 18, 2011 17:24:50 GMT -5 NoMoreLunacy said:

I think it sucks and the international curriculum is far ahead. But instead of bringing it up to international standards we are caught up in debating over teaching religion disguised as science.

...which international standard, for instance?

International Baccalaureate for example.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 18, 2011 17:52:30 GMT -5 oped said:

I think the issue is more our idea that EVERY child needs the same education. A superior and more rigorous STANDARD is only possible if you are not educating everyone.

How does Singapore do it? How does UK do it? How does ...

[hello fromWarsaw]

I heard some expert say that the US is 17th in the world in HS education, but in areas where the bottom 10% poor are not living, we're #1. So fix what we do with the bottom 10%! And that would include fixing all those CRUMMY jobs with a living wage, and the drug war, if you know what I mean, ya racist hypocrites! Oh, sorry ;D

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 18, 2011 17:53:39 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

They are trying to improve standards in California schools and have implemented the High School Exit Exam. And now people are complaining that too few students are passing, and that they are being irreparably harmed by not being able to obtain high school diplomas.

All about the California High School Exit Exam ... www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/hs/cefcahsee.asp

Which is BS, right? If someone doesn't deserve to pass they shouldn't.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 18, 2011 17:57:05 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

I think the problem is that they've raised the standards to graduate (which is a good thing), but that they haven't necessarily changed or improved the teaching necessary to help most students pass (which seems to me to be a bad thing.) To me, raising the standards is only part of the equation ... something else needs to be done to ensure that students can meet the raised standards....

Are you sure? From what I know the curriculum was changed as well. But the parents found the curriculum to be too hard, likely because 1) they themselves faced an easier curriculum, and 2) they just don't want to put in the effort that it takes on part of the parent to educate their kids. You can't just let the kids "do homework on their own" and "get B's". You have to sit with them for hours every day and make sure that they study and study well.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 18, 2011 17:58:53 GMT -5 oped said:

I think its perfectly acceptable to say "This is the standard you must meet in order to graduate from high school with an academic diploma." ...

I think it is unreasonable to suggest that ALL children should be able to meet this standard. The only way you can have all children meet the same standard, is if it is a low one... and even then...

So the remaining stay behind.

[Deleted]

Singapore didn't have compulsory ed until 2000... and still is only for primary and not at all for 'disabled children'... We require ALL children, not just to attend, but assure them an 'equal' education, and require them to take the same tests....

In Singapore, at the end of Primary 6, the national Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE) is held. The examination determines whether the student is ready to leave primary school by passing; places in secondary schools are allocated according to students' performance in the examination. Based on the test, they are placed in different secondary education tracks or streams: "Special", "Express", "Normal (Academic)", or "Normal (Technical)".

[NoMoreLunacy]

You know, that makes a lot of sense to me. Germany follows the same model. My son is forever complaining about how boring his school is. If there was a special-express track he could have gone there. And he doesn't even go to the US public school system. He goes to an IB school. We basically complement that with other academic institutions outside of school, to keep him interested.

[Deleted]

The rest aren't 'left behind' ... they are prepared differently....

[Deleted]

Well, basically Singapore also finishes secondary at 15/16... and then 4 years of 'college' for those in academic tracks... but again, not for everyone...

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 18, 2011 18:29:09 GMT -5 oped said:

Well, basically Singapore also finishes secondary at 15/16... and then 4 years of 'college' for those in academic tracks... but again, not for everyone...

And our high school grads have to be retaught basic subjects in first year in college.

[Deleted]

But not ALL Children attend secondary school or college in Singapore... and if they do, they don't all go to the same track.... that is the difference...

[NoMoreLunacy]

What's keeping us from having the same structure in the USA? Why should we pull down the smart into mediocracy?

[Deleted]

What do you think of education in US public school


It's at least as good as most 3rd world countries educations.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 18, 2011 18:45:13 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

What do you think of education in US public school


It's at least as good as most 3rd world countries educations.

That I agree. We are definitely better than Afghanistan! Woo hoo!

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jun 18, 2011 18:35:16 GMT -5 NoMoreLunacy said:

What's keeping us from having the same structure in the USA? Why should we pull down the smart into mediocracy?

...thinking...

[formerexpat]

Consider Singapore math for example. Far, far advanced than US public school math.

Do you also support the Singapore system that determines the track that a student will take at the age of 12. Your academic ability determined at 12 and your life as a manual laborer could be determined before you are a teen.

Maybe that's the biggest problem with the American system? We spend too much per pupil that clearly will not provide a return on investment. Maybe putting them in the vo-tech route and giving them useful experience in trade in their early teens would be much better than spending needless thousands on those unable to perform?

[busymom]

I don't like the textbooks used in our school district. There's a lot of "implied learning", rather than memorizing facts & repeating them. Implied learning works for kids that are at the top of the class, but for any child that struggles with reading comprehension, those kids fall behind. I've brought that up at school meetings, but the excuse is always the books are selected by people with PhD's, not the teachers that actually work directly with the students. How dumb are they, when too many kids are falling behind?!

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 18, 2011 21:09:49 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Consider Singapore math for example. Far, far advanced than US public school math.

Do you also support the Singapore system that determines the track that a student will take at the age of 12. Your academic ability determined at 12 and your life as a manual laborer could be determined before you are a teen.

Maybe that's the biggest problem with the American system? We spend too much per pupil that clearly will not provide a return on investment. Maybe putting them in the vo-tech route and giving them useful experience in trade in their early teens would be much better than spending needless thousands on those unable to perform?

There you go again trying to cut costs. Look, can you please stop your knee jerk reaction for one minute and try to focus on what I am saying? Leave the current curriculum alone, but rename it to normal. Then add two more tracks, for the high performers. This will cost MORE, not less than the current cost. But it will also let the bright kids shine. Otherwise everyone is taught to the lowest common standard and the nation as a whole remains undereducated.