NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 18, 2011 22:49:32 GMT -5
I must say that I am not very familiar with the politics of the education world, having worked in corporates all my life. I also tend to over-MBA everything.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 18, 2011 23:23:15 GMT -5
Wow, there is no way to argue with that. Come on dude, what did I say wrong? Respect your opinion so would like to get it. Okay, I will give it a go. Teaching is only partially curriculum based. You are also teaching human beings. A five/six/seven year old is a uniquely different creature than a fifteen/sixteen/seventeen year old. You are also talking about unique differences within age groups. Many excellent teachers of advanced students would not last a day in the hormone driven environment of a middle school/junior high. Personally when I was substitute teaching, I was never able to micro-manage an elementary school classroom without being late for everything. (Do you have any idea what it takes to get twenty seven year olds all headed in one direction together?) Teachers are also not chess pieces that you can move about on a board without morale issues. Teachers with good math skills that only wish to teach advanced classes will look to move out of teaching if forced to teach lower level math.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 13:38:34 GMT -5
In Asia, kids 5/6/7 are taught a much higher level of math than in the USA. How do they do that? As for the morale issue of teachers, I am not asking AP math teachers to teach the times table. I am asking them to teach AP math courses to 8th graders.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 19, 2011 13:53:48 GMT -5
In Asia, kids 5/6/7 are taught a much higher level of math than in the USA. How do they do that? As for the morale issue of teachers, I am not asking AP math teachers to teach the times table. I am asking them to teach AP math courses to 8th graders. In Asia: 1) Teachers are respected 2) Math is respected 3) Not all students are being taught.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 13:57:35 GMT -5
Fair enough. How can we move USA towards #1 and #2?
All students ARE being taught the same curriculum in ages 5/6/7 in Asia.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jun 19, 2011 15:03:04 GMT -5
The problem with education in the US is tons of moronic laws mandating what and how things are taught by legislators who have utterly no knowledge of the education system, and axe-grinding school board members for the same reason.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 19, 2011 15:20:32 GMT -5
The problem with education in the US is tons of moronic laws mandating what and how things are taught by legislators who have utterly no knowledge of the education system, and axe-grinding school board members for the same reason. ...can we return education to the local level now?
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 15:35:29 GMT -5
...can we return education to the local level now? So that local level moronic politicians and school board members can do the same?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 19, 2011 18:22:32 GMT -5
...can we return education to the local level now? So that local level moronic politicians and school board members can do the same? I worked in one small district in which a slate of candidates were elected with a very specific agenda. The first meeting they all walked in wearing their old high school lettermen's jackets, got sworn in, and then fired the high school football coach. They were at a loss as to what they were supposed to do after that.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 18:40:21 GMT -5
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jun 19, 2011 18:51:50 GMT -5
Isn't failure to attend mandatory school in Indonesia a criminal offense? If so, that would certainly keep dropout rates low. In California, the dropout rates for hispanics and African Americans is more than 40% ... which is a real problem for the state.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 19, 2011 19:01:48 GMT -5
I think it sux. Bussing, , , quotas, , , affirmative action teachers, (teachers unions, too), and everything that smacks of "it's society's fault" is an affront to all the country's children who apply themselves.
When I attended school students failed. They were thught of asd the future of the country and they were not mollycoddled. And the parents of failing students were required to attend night sessions to get the cards on the table. These are still practices in most private schools. Why not in public schools?
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jun 19, 2011 19:11:50 GMT -5
I don't think schools have the ability or desire to compel parents to attend night sessions. And I don't think teachers have any desire to attend night sessions.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 19, 2011 20:05:22 GMT -5
Probably not any more, molly. Affirmative action, unions, and the lack of overtime dollars have all made sure of that. But if they can't make it at night they can't make it before school either, or after school, or on week-ends, or in fact not ever.
But Private schools can and do, and if the parents want their little darlings to progress they make time to go.
So, if there is a difference in what kind of student private schools turn out it may not be as much the caliber of student they're turning out as much as it is the caliber of parents that the students come from.
What do you think?
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jun 19, 2011 20:11:05 GMT -5
Your posts are the antithesis of MBA thinking. I seriously questioned whether you knew what a financial statement was and whether you could read one about 10 minutes ago. This seriously must be a joke.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 19, 2011 20:22:14 GMT -5
It sounded so nice she had to say it thrice
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 19, 2011 20:27:55 GMT -5
I deleted the second and third. Board is very very slow today.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 20:45:06 GMT -5
Your posts are the antithesis of MBA thinking. I seriously questioned whether you knew what a financial statement was and whether you could read one about 10 minutes ago. This seriously must be a joke. You should write to Wharton for producing a Finance MBA who not only cannot read financial statements, but is actually a liberal.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 20:46:42 GMT -5
TT, i have nothing against public schools, but till standards go up I won't send my kid there.
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Post by moxie on Jun 19, 2011 21:10:00 GMT -5
I have taught in the public school and I have had two children go through the public school system. Years ago, when I started out as a young teacher fresh out of college, we were told to teach every minute of every school day. For awhile, I stayed home to raise my kids. When I went back into the classroom, I thought there was a lot of wasted time, busy work, "teaching to the test." There are definitely teachers out there, young and old, who are unprepared to be quality educators. My kids were fortunate to have had mostly top notch teachers, but parents really do have to support and supplement the education of their children. I have no desire to return to the classroom full-time at this point. Too much red tape and politics (I live in WI...Gov. Walker territory). I went into teaching because I love children and thought I could make a REAL difference in their lives. It's tough to be a teacher nowadays...endless meetings, paperwork, unsupportive administrators and parents, budget issues/cuts, students with severe emotional, behavioral, learning issues. I knew I should have gone into NURSING!! Just kidding, I hear that can be a pretty thankless profession too.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 21:26:16 GMT -5
I cannot blame any parent for putting his own children first, I merely suggest that we stop eviscerating the public school system. Even if one's own children turn out fine, every service that you will receive in your old age will be directly affected by the quality of the education your fellow citizen's children receive. I would be happy to pay more taxes to support public schools. However, I have one condition. Make the curriculum the same as the international one, and fail kids who don't meet the bar.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 21:32:11 GMT -5
And what is that? International standards are all over the bar. In most West Indian islands, you aren't guaranteed an education at all. Then too, we educate everyone instead of the elite few. Perhaps there is a good argument against trying to turn chowderheads into PhD's, but I believe some education is a requirement for every citizen so that they can earn their daily bread. I like the International Baccalaureate curriculum.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 21:38:15 GMT -5
I am afraid that I am not familiar with that. Does it pertain to lower education? If it is pitched towards older students (our high school or BA level) it is already too late. K-12. MUCH more demanding than the US curriculum.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jun 19, 2011 21:39:03 GMT -5
I wonder if you store your story somewhere handy so you can reference it again when needed. You remind me of IiI.
I have no problem with liberals; just ones that cannot support their position with supportable information. You can still have a liberal position about the USPS while acknowledging that the complications in front of them are related to uncontrollable expenses due to employees - as is disclosed in the USPS 10Q and has been widely known for pretty much my entire adult life [the last 12 years].
Like many other industries and areas of government, the USPS made promises that it couldn't keep to its retiree base. That whole LT assumption for pensions of 8% isn't helpful either, but not unique to the USPS.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 21:40:53 GMT -5
No different than the pension situation at GM.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jun 19, 2011 21:48:26 GMT -5
Some researchers state it is better than AP courses that many high school students take. Other researchers state it is worse. On average, I suspect, it's on par with AP courses overall.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jun 19, 2011 21:49:38 GMT -5
Agree - and how did GM get out from under that problem?
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 21:53:37 GMT -5
Agree - and how did GM get out from under that problem? With a public bailout.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jun 19, 2011 21:59:38 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 19, 2011 22:03:17 GMT -5
Probably not any more, molly. Affirmative action, unions, and the lack of overtime dollars have all made sure of that. But if they can't make it at night they can't make it before school either, or after school, or on week-ends, or in fact not ever. But Private schools can and do, and if the parents want their little darlings to progress they make time to go. So, if there is a difference in what kind of student private schools turn out it may not be as much the caliber of student they're turning out as much as it is the caliber of parents that the students come from. What do you think? Every study ever done indicates that parents are what makes the difference.
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