Feng Shui and Money

[Virgil Showlion]

I started re-reading my oft-recommended book "Clear Your Clutter with Fung Shui" by Karen Kingston and I was reminded of the number of people who wrote in to tell her that money problems eased up after clearing out their clutter. ...

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VirgilBot TP v0.02 Started Thread Port on 01/04/2011

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[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #1 - 04/30/08 09:04 PM



I started re-reading my oft-recommended book "Clear Your Clutter with Fung Shui" by Karen Kingston and I was reminded of the number of people who wrote in to tell her that money problems eased up after clearing out their clutter.  Some of that was because they sold their clutter and got cash for it, and some of it was just that when they got rid of the clutter, cash seemed to flow in. 

 

Our house has been an absolute nightmare for months.  I got busy with other stuff and haven't cleaned it and DH won't clean anything unless there's no clean dishes, then he will wash a sinkful and that's about it.  Even he was too embarrassed by it to let the exterminator in the last visit (albeit not so embarrassed he's done anything like a serious cleaning on it).

 

Come to think of it, we've had a terrible run of luck since the house started getting messy and staying that way.  Mainly bad car luck, but also a bunch of other things that seem to keep costing us about twice as much money as it should and taking us about three times as long to accomplish.  Transmission here, blown out tire there, lightning hitting the electric fence box, needing a new chainsaw, etc., etc., etc. ad nausum.

 

So, he's going out of town this weekend and I plan on doing some SERIOUS house cleaning and get us back into shape. 

 

So, I was curious if anyone else wanted to do a clutter-clearing and spring cleaning (because getting rid of physical dirt is necessary for good fung shui as well) in May and then let's see if anyone notices a financial or health or luck improvement?

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2007debtheaven
Message #2 - 04/30/08 09:12 PM

Keria, my house is pretty decluttered and I do my decluttering in the fall, so I can't help you here. (Except for DH's clutter in the storage room in the basement, but unfortunately I can't do anything about it except continue to beg.)

This isn't really related to Feng Shui, more like karma, but two weeks ago I decided to make another Kiva loan (about 40, not huge). A few days later, we got 1300 we were owed in back rent from one of our two non-paying tenants. (About half of what we're owed.) It's not Feng Shui but I did think about the karmic message! (And since you introduced me to Kiva, I also thought of you, lol.)

Good luck with the decluttering / housework! You'll feel SOOOO much better when it's done!

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ColdReality
Message #3 - 04/30/08 09:22 PM



HGTV used to have a show called Fun Shui and the host, Stephanie McWilliams, did a great job at introducing the concept of Feng Shui and how it helps in your life style, etc.  She offers a lot of free advice on her website [www.evolvingarts.com] www.evolvingarts.com. Check out her blog (she's a great writer). Anyway, based on the TV show and her free advice posted on her website, I've learned to declutter and get ride of bad energy, welcoming new opportunities, etc. 

 

Moderator: please don't delete my post; the website has a lot of free information and is useful.

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knoelle
Message #4 - 04/30/08 09:35 PM

I'm in.....I don't know if it will help with karma, etc., but I know that mentally I always feel much better when everything around me is organized.  I think I'll start with all of those magazines and papers that have been piling up lately.

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Amazon Hunter
Message #5 - 04/30/08 09:49 PM



Keriamon,

This is something that is number one on my To Do list.  I will be on a trip this weekend, but I've told my DH that when I get back we need to get around to clearing out all the carp in our house.  It's definately annoying.  On the surface, everything looks ok, but we really just have a lot of cabinets to house extra junk we are too lazy to get rid of.  I look at the cabinets and shudder thinking about all the stuff just waiting to pour out.  I'm definately in.

AH

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keriamon
Message #6 - 04/30/08 10:01 PM



I had forgotten about the karma aspect.  Many people who declutter give large amounts of stuff to the thrift store, so that may be part of why money problems seem to work out better afterwards.  The energy aspect of it says when you have room in your life (physically, energetically, mentally), then you have room for new, good stuff to come in.  When your life (and house) is too full, good stuff passes you by because there's no room for it. 

 

That reminds me, we've had guts for our toilets now for over a month.  Our toilets started leaking (both at the same time, although one got so bad I had to shut it down last week) and I could no longer fix them by jiggling and re-seating everything, so we got all new guts.  Guess what?  Dripping water is associated in Fung Shui with money going down the tubes!  I was going to fix at least the really bad toilet this weekend, but I'm certainly going to do them both now! 

[Virgil Showlion]

diggingout
Message #7 - 04/30/08 10:08 PM



I'm in Keriamon ! My house is in a shambles. I haven't been keeping it up to my white glove standards lately. My family needs a kick in the a** to get them to do anything. Needless to say, it is has been hard for me to get motivated. Maybe this is why my money issues have resurfaced. I will give it a try and report back. I can't wait to see what everyone has to say on this subject.

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azure sky
Message #8 - 04/30/08 10:14 PM

Keriamon,

It's so funny you should post about this: I just watched a few things on hoarding a few days ago.  My mom is a hoarder, and I think I get really sensitive about clutter/dirt.  Anyway, watching these shows just happened to coincide with the fact that our apartment was disgustingly dirty.  I was commissioned to do some artwork for extra $$, so I worked on that over the weekend in lieu of cleaning.  Last night I was so bothered by the show and by a website I saw on adult children of hoarders that I started cleaning like mad.  I've still got a ways to go, so I'm in with you on this one...

...only, I'm going to New York City to see a DOLLY PARTON concert this weekend , so I'll have to join you on Sunday.  

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2007debtheaven
Message #9 - 04/30/08 10:38 PM

Many people who declutter give large amounts of stuff to the thrift store

When I declutter, I give nearly everything away. Kids' clothes to colleagues with younger kids, the rest to the Red Cross (because they're local). I sell very little, basically only old kids' bikes as they outgrow them.

I do know that about Feng Shui and plumbing problems. They say the same about even keeping the toilet lid up! With four guys in the house, that's a losing battle, but I do what I can, lol.  

Can we post Feng Shui tips here too? My fave is red flowers by the front door (which I originally started doing to offset the bad Feng Shui of our neighbors's HUGE tree looming directly opposite our front door). The first time I did that, DH finally decided to move in. That was 11 years ago, lol. I haven't bought this year's red flowers yet because we are redoing the patio, it'll be finished on Saturday, I'll do it the following weekend. Now that spring is here, I feel sort of nekkid without those red flowers by the front door, lol.  

Also, Keria, do deal with the toilets. There is something particularly insidious about water damage. We're dealing with that issue now and it's expensive. I never let any maintenance to do with water go undone if I know about it. We did know about this (patio in bad shape) but we thought it was an aesthetic issue, we never realized the carpy old patio would cause basement flooding, now we have to redo the patio and the basement floor. We were exactly 259 from debt freedom, and now unfortunately we're getting a new loan for the patio and basement floor (the floor will probably be covered by insurance but we need to lay it out.) That really smarts!

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pink.cshmere
Message #10 - 04/30/08 10:51 PM



Keriamon:

 

Have you been peeping thru my (dirty) windows?

 

I'm in! I actually did a lot of clutter clearing in January, but never finished. So here's my chance to get back to it.

 

Will you be our "leader" o wise one? 

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MP Dunleavey
Message #11 - 04/30/08 11:05 PM



What a terrific idea.  I'm going to urge all the participants to really take this seriously and track what they clean, what they throw out, what they earn, what they save and what debt they pay off. 

 

There are many decluttering gurus to follow out there--I'm a big fan of Peter Walsh's It's All Too Much--and while it can all get a little overcooked I myself believe there's a real correlation between getting the actual house and the financial house.  I think it will be great to get feedback from many people and see if we can come up with some hard facts.

 

DH and I just moved, so we really have no excuse, but I'm betting there's some serious decluttering we can do in our attic--we moved too quickly to be able to go through everything, and DH ended up just throwing things in a van.  Let's update regularly!

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keriamon
Message #12 - 04/30/08 11:17 PM

only, I'm going to New York City to see a DOLLY PARTON concert this weekend

Sweet.  When I was a kid (back in the 80's when country music was much better than nowadays) I loved Dolly's music.  She comes on my internet radio sometimes and I still like it (her and Crystal Gayle).  I think Dolly would be a very cool to meet in person.  It doesn't get bragged about a lot, but she offers scholarships for poor children in the Smokeys to go to college and she's funded a lot of rural libraries in East Tennessee.  They say she put all of her younger siblings and even cousins through college. 

 

Diggingout, I'm not sure how young your kids are (I assume you have some in that "family"), but if they are 8 or younger, there's a link off the [www.flylady.net/] www.flylady.net website to the cleaning fairy.  It doesn't cost much at all, but the cleaning fairy will send your child letters and even the occasional DVD on being good and keeping clean.  Like Santa and the tooth fairy, the cleaning fairy leaves gifts for good boys and girls--who have their rooms tidy when she stops by to visit.  She also knows if they've been helping mom and dad out around the rest of the house.

 

The program seems to get rave reviews from parents.  I've even read where teens will start cleaning their rooms and asking if the "cleaning fairy" will leave them candy too.  Some women have even applied it to dads! 

 

Also, Keria, do deal with the toilets. There is something particularly insidious about water damage.

I will definitely, but they're not leaking out as into the floor or under the house.  The flappers have just gotten old and they won't seal off the tank anymore, so water is trickling out into the bowl until the tank refills.  Only the worse one, the other day, wasn't filling up properly at all.  Only a trickle of water was coming in--not enough to match what was leaking back out.  Not sure what that's all about, but I'm glad we went with total gut replacement kits instead of just the flappers.  I don't think any of that stuff has ever been replaced, which means it's 22 years old; time for it!!!

 

I will consider getting some red flowers.  The one thing that Karen Kingston talks about, though, is to be careful to not apply much Feng Shui before you clutter clean.  She points out that someone who hangs a mirror in their prosperity corner hoping to double their money may find, if it reflects a pile of clutter that it doubles their clutter and/or money woes instead!  So I will clear first, then see about sprucing up.

 

She also has a second book (it's her first one, actually, but most people need to start with the clutter book) "Creating Sacred Space" which is really about fung shui, good energies, etc.  (The clutter book, for people who aren't into fung shui, is not much about fung shui and a lot about simple practicality; it works even for people who don't believe in fung shui.)  One of the things I have found that people can do if they are so stuck they can't clear clutter (and I think she recommends this, although I couldn't find it in my book when I looked through it this morning) is to go around through your house clapping in the corners of the rooms.  You can clap from top to bottom or visa versa.  Clap as low to as high as you want.  Clap as near to the corner as you can get.  You can (and probably should) clap around artificial corners as well--ones in closets and ones that large pieces of furniture make.  These are all inwards pointing corners, by the way.  Wash your hands when you are done clapping all of the corners.  Clapping is like one of the first things you do to create a space with better energy.  It breaks up all the dirty energy that gets stuck in the corners (the way dust gets stuck in them!).  Sometimes doing that BEFORE you clear your clutter can help you feel energized enough to tackle the clutter (then you can go back around and do it again as part of the overall ceremony and just prior to applying any fung shui elements).

[Virgil Showlion]

2007debtheaven
Message #13 - 04/30/08 11:27 PM

I'm not obsessed with the Feng Shui, I first got into it many years ago but never actually plotted my house out (because it's L-shaped and too difficult), but I really just liked the general principals: light, airy, functional, clutter-free. That was what I was already aspiring to. With four kids that was a part time job in and of itself for many years, lol.

There are some things I retained like the red flowers, and not having a mirror opposite a bed. (That's my second weird Feng Shui story, our relationship got much better when I moved my large antique mirror to a side wall of the bedroom years ago.)

What I really like about FS (and probably you too) is that it's generally common sense. You shouldn't have a door you can't open because there's too much stuff behind the door. You shouldn't have so many chatchkes that you can't be bothered to dust. You shouldn't have so many things on the floor that you can't be bothered to vaccuum. That's just common sense, not to mention a fire hazard. We have a close Japanese friend who sometimes teases about the west's obsession with Feng Shui, he says in any country, it's just basic common sense, hygiene and good design.

I do realize that about your toilets, there are no real leaks, but in my experience, it's all a slippery slope, lol. From a karmic POV, you have to deal with this water issue, because if you don't, you'll have a harder one to deal with.

What a terrific idea.  I'm going to urge all the participants to really take this seriously and track what they clean, what they throw out, what they earn, what they save and what debt they pay off. 

Um, Mia, I'm not sure it works this way. Keriamon explained it perfectly, the idea is to make room in your life for new things (and that doesn't mean a HDTV), not to track a spreadsheet. Why not ask if and how people's lives change after they declutter? 

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PauletteG
Message #14 - 04/30/08 11:48 PM



I want to do this. I have a mess of excuses. Mostly I want to vent about Mr. workathome, who has a three second commute time to the living room, whereas I have a thirty-three minute commute time, yet does very little to clean up. My energy ends up being used by dreaming up opportunities to leave for Canada. This doesn't get the house clean.

 

I'm not the only one paying the mortgage, and I'm not the only one who uses things in the house. Why do I have to be the only one motivated to clean up the house? And why aren't my efforts enough? (Other than housework is dead boring and I get resentful right quick and go do something else, like watching dopes electrocute themselves on electric fences via YouTube.)

 

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2007debtheaven
Message #15 - 04/30/08 11:58 PM

Paulette, FWIW, here is my answer.

I do it because I care. It used to make me angry and resentful and sometimes it still does. But the bottom line is, I can't function in a house that looks like a wreck, DH doesn't give a hoot. Thank God he has other qualities, lol.

What adds insult to injury is that if his family is visiting from the UK, suddenly he wakes up and you can eat off the INSIDE of the toilet.  

I do what I need to do to, for ME. Unfortunately that includes cleaning up after a handsome and talented slob. He's a genius in the kitchen and can't understand why I'd rather get pizza, it doesn't take me an hour to clean up after take-out pizza, duh!

Also, dirty secret, we have a cleaner. The only time in the week DH ever makes an effort is the night before the cleaner comes. That provokes a weekly argument, you won't clean up for ME, but you'll clean up for HER?!

 

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go_baby_go
Message #16 - 05/01/08 12:11 AM

I'm not sure Feng Shui works, but as soon as I painted my front door black, I got the promotion I'd been waiting for...

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prettygoodyear
Message #17 - 05/01/08 12:31 AM



I haven't been on these boards in a long time, so I apologize if I'm repeating what others have already discussed in the past.  In the interest of simplicity, here are my two all-time favorite websites for life inspiration in the area of simple living and decluttering (including inspiration for financial order):

 

zenhabits.net

[www.unclutterer.com] www.unclutterer.com

 

For this thread specifically, here is a GREAT link to an article about housework: zenhabits.net/2008/01/the-minimalists-guide-to-simple-housework/ The first rule (simply, simplify) has some links to articles about de-cluttering.  I like the 2nd rule/suggestion to meditate as you do the housework.

 

Kindest regards to all!

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eyes0pen
Message #18 - 05/01/08 12:48 AM

*not spam, promise*

there's an apartment therapy book out there called '[www.amazon.com/Apartment-Therapy-Eight-Step-Home-Cure/dp/0553383124] the cure' that is a great template for purging the house.  it works on any size living space, and they do spring cures and fall cures on their website where everyone kinda does it together, a lot like the WIR racers.  the spring cure is over, but it'd be a fab formula to follow as a group.   the best advice the book gives, though, is to set your time frame and plan a party at the end inviting friends and family to come see your progress...and send out the invitations *now*.  gives you a deadline you have to take seriously!

[Virgil Showlion]

azure sky
Message #19 - 05/01/08 01:48 AM

When we did the "how big is your house" thread, I remember winning at our 350 sq. foot dorm room.  Even the smallest amount of clutter adds up big--plus, we have 20 college students visit our room once a week for "study breaks."  There is nothing like feeding a bunch of 18 year-olds snacks to dirty up your place in a heartbeat.  I really need this thread.  

Again, this is an issue that touches my heart.  My mother is a hoarder, and so was my grandmother.  It is very hard for me to get rid of some things, especially to just throw it away.  I like the FS idea because it takes it away from the hoarding aspect for me and directs it to something more positive.  And I certainly have some things to go through right now!

Thanks, Keriamon for starting this.  I have to add--just for Keriamon--that Dolly is a hero of mine.  Growing up in Appalachia, she was one of my inspirations for improving my life.  Now, I don't look nearly as good as Dolly, nor do I have her singing voice, but growing up in a large, poor family is something we definitely have in common.  I am so excited to see her in concert!  I wrote my college admissions essays about her and I did pretty darn well in the admissions game

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fengshuiheaven
Message #20 - 05/01/08 03:33 AM



 

So, he's going out of town this weekend (thank goodness; I need it after last night's argument) and I plan on doing some SERIOUS house cleaning and get us back into shape. 

 

He should help you with this!!!!

 

I can't even think right if my house is a stye which is why I wanted to get a cleaning service in here.....

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GusitaRenker
Message #21 - 05/01/08 03:59 AM

I am definately in on this...I look around my apartment and see piles of old school stuff, stuffed animals that I have been meaning to take to goodwill for a month now, 2 storage containers with junk in them, 3 year old magazines, just WAY too much stuff.  I don't need all this stuff and my place would be so much easier to clean if I didn't have to move a million things just to do one simple task.

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Sarahsmiling
Message #22 - 05/01/08 04:18 AM



I am in though I am cheating a bit.  I scheduled to have a house cleaner come in once a week to help out for a while.  That way I can purge through a lot of stuff and still have other areas looking OK.  I have to get rid of a ton of stuff so I can have more time for my family.  Our house is just too small to hold all of our carp and it has to go.  My 2 yo DS will trip over a toy and say "this house is a twain wreck".  Guess where he got that from?? 

More than anything, I need to get more time to work out (I really need to lose some weight) and spend real time with the kids.  I feel like they are only small for a short time and my 7 yo DD is getting shortchanged for time right now.  My 2 yo gets lot of time and my 11 yo DD tends to demand more time lately.  Middle DD is a Daddy's girl and that helps that he makes time when he is home but he travels fairly often, so it is tough for her. 

So, technically, it isn't so much for the feng shui aspect of it, but for peace and time in our home.  I will love to read how feng shui will apply AFTER the clutter is gone.  Good thread!!

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EliLy
Message #23 - 05/01/08 08:50 AM

I'm not sure Feng Shui works, but as soon as I painted my front door black, I got the promotion I'd been waiting for...

My neigbor swears that her husband got three promotions right after they painted their front door red according to Fen Shui, and they also got the child they had longed for a long time

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #24 - 05/01/08 01:46 PM

What a timely post.  I have spent the last two weeks decluttering and cleaning our home (including donating major pieces of furniture and redoing my wardrobe).  My DH went out of town for these two weeks and in that time the local charity has picked up a small truck full of donated items.  I didn't even think we were too cluttered.  A lot of the items were useful but not necessary.  I am glad to have the open space again.  Tonight I am finishing the deep clean and decorating touches as he returns tomorrow.  I can't wait to check out the sites you all have suggested for ideas.  I am a regular purger but am working on maintaining a clean and clutter-free lifestyle.  I find it goes hand in hand with any type of personal change, be it financial, physical or emotional.  I am working in all of those areas right now, hopefully great change will come.  Great idea Kerimon, and MP I think it is a great idea to keep this post active so we can report on our progress and offer assistance to others in this effort.

[Virgil Showlion]

Salamander
Message #25 - 05/01/08 01:57 PM



I am trying to do decluttering, but it's slow going. I keep telling myself that if I do one small area a day, then (eventually) the house will be clutter-free. I did succeed in getting one room entirely done (down to washing the baseboards and new shelf-paper liners on the closet shelves), and I am amazed at how relaxed I feel in that room, and how much faster and easier it is to clean with all the dust-catchers gone!

I am working on the kitchen, now. Each day, I've been setting aside an area of the kitchen cabinets to take everything out, sort, clean the cabinets out thoroughly, and only put back what I need. I'm amazed at the odd stuff I've got squirrelled away...like six ice cube trays. Who needs six ice cube trays?

I have promised myself that I am going to take at least two garbage bags of unneeded items to Goodwill every week. For the last few weeks, I've been meeting my goal, but I just wish I could find the time to do more, and that I could see results faster.

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HW3
Message #26 - 05/01/08 02:19 PM



I was brought up in a clutter so it's somewhat a problem for me to even begin to imagine clutter-free life. I, as my mother, tend to hold on to things. Carton boxes are my thing. Go figure. Have hard time throwing away an empty carton box

I just recently finally gave away a lot of newborn baby close, bed, stroller, high chair- you name it- to my friend who had a baby. That's after 3 years of it all sitting there because of "what if we have the 3rd one".

 

So here's my question: how do you define "clutter"? Our house is relatively clean -or I should say, vacuumed and dusted. But what about all those bags with close that are sitting on the top shelves? Are they "clutter"? Because they are kind of all the way up there in the closet, out of everybody's way and out of site. And I know that soon as I give/throw something away, I'll need to within a week. Example: Had a floor lamp sitting in garage for... hmm... 6 years? Friend moved into a new apartment and I gave it to her. Lol I had to buy a new lamp pretty much immediately after that.

 

What about the garage? It's right next to the house and it's a disaster area. But then again, it's not "in the house".

 

One of my biggest problems is that I can't find things. When my husband asks "where is X or Y" (and normally, X or Y was not needed for some time), I go into a panic mode. Literally. I feel sick and almost slip into depression whether I find X or Y or not.

 

 

P.S. What's up with coloring doors?

Yes, please do post some hints, preferably with some explanation

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susansonamission
Message #27 - 05/01/08 02:59 PM

this all sounds like nonsense. but if you donate your stuff are you really building bad  karma?

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pink.cshmere
Message #28 - 05/01/08 03:15 PM

P.S. What's up with coloring doors?

Yes, please do post some hints, preferably with some explanation

Keriamon: I could use hints for incorporating feng shui also. Please and thank you.

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keriamon
Message #29 - 05/01/08 03:24 PM

He should help you with this!!!!

Are you kidding?  Man help with housework?  Besides, I clean better when he's away.  Otherwise he'll be sitting on the computer and then I will want to sit on the computer and then we end up with the house in the state it's in now.  See, I'm a recovering messy person.  I got on the recovery program in college through the "Clear Your Clutter with Fung Shui" book and was happier in the last 6 months of college than I had been since the first 6 months.  But, my husband is just as messy as I used to be (or a bit worse, I think), and it's very easy for me to slip back to being messy because he's being messy.  Like a recovering alcoholic living with someone who drinks.  My husband likes a clean house, but he admits that he doesn't really see a problem with "filing" stuff in the floor.  What's that we say on here all the time, about how you can't change someone, they have to change themselves?  Well, I can't change him and make him less messy.  So that leaves me with two options: live unhappily in a mess or pick up after both of us and have a peaceful house. 

 

 

I am trying to do decluttering, but it's slow going.

Flylady has the 27 fling boogie.  You set an egg timer (or watch or whatever) for 15 minutes and you turn on some peppy music and you go through a room tossing stuff as fast as possible.  You are supposed to toss 27 things in the 15 minutes.  You can toss them in the trash or the donation bag (or have both in the room and to each item its place).  She says you can see a real noticeable improvement if you toss 27 things in a room.  Repeat as often as needed to get it de-cluttered.  One reason why your de-cluttering may be taking so long is that you're lingering over stuff.  I do this; re-read cards or letters before tossing them, look through books to see if there's any information in them that I might want after all, trying to decide if yes that's useful or no it's not.  I get distracted by my junk, when in reality, most everything can be selected for keeping or tossing pretty quickly. 

 

The general rule of thumb is: if you haven't used it in a year, it needs to go.  If it's something that only gets used once or twice a year (like a set of Christmas dishes), then you can ask if you have used it in the last three years?  Nothing should ever be kept that you haven't used in the last three years, and most stuff can be tossed if you haven't used it in one.  This goes for clothes--even ones you have been saving to get back into one day!

 

If you just apply the "used it in the last year?" question to everything you pull out of your cabinets, and toss or keep based on that alone, I think you will find that your clutter-clearing progress will triple. 

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keriamon
Message #30 - 05/01/08 03:28 PM

So here's my question: how do you define "clutter"?

I'll quote from Karen Kingston: "Clutter" is from the Middle English word "clotter" which means to coagulate. 

 

Think a coagulation of things defines clutter pretty well?  Lol.  She also breaks it down into some other sections:

 

* Things you do not love or use

* Things that are untidy and disorganized

* Too many things in too small a space

* Anything unfinished

 

HW3, you're not a Cancer sign are you?  Karen Kingston said that she is a cancer and that cancers in particular are fond of boxes.  She said she used to keep large, empty boxes for some reason.  Freaked a moving guy out once when he heaved a box up, only to find out it was totally empty (yep, she was moving an empty box with her!). 

 

But what about all those bags with close that are sitting on the top shelves? Are they "clutter"?

What's in them?  If it's extra bed linens that you do pull out when it's winter or when company comes over (apply the 1-3 year rule), then it's not clutter.  If you don't remember what all is in the bags, then they are clutter.  If they are linens that you replaced with new over 1-3 years ago and you've not had them out since, then they are clutter.  Look to rule one: do you love or use what's in the bags?  That they are out of the way doesn't matter.  You could be using that storage space for things that you do use, but which you don't need all the time (e.g. Christmas decorations).  Besides, a closet that is crammed full, especially with large things looming overhead on a shelf, is not very comforting, and that's what getting rid of clutter is all about!  You want to have a comforting house.   

 

And I know that soon as I give/throw something away, I'll need to within a week.

Karen Kingston also addresses this.  People who want something bad to happen (i.e. for their decision to be proven wrong) will make it happen.  They will find a way to need what they have gotten rid of just to prove themselves wrong, you see.  You have to have confidence when you throw stuff out.  That's what makes people hoarders--fear.  There's a part of you that fears not having a box when you need one--thus why you keep them.  Me, I know I can pick up a box at work or from a dumpster or store somewhere, so I don't keep boxes; I get them when I need them (and, honestly, it's not that hard to live without one for a few days until I can round one up).  Or, as Karen Kingston puts it, learn to trust in God (or whomever or whatever you believe in) to provide for you.  Not saying throw everything out and become a Buddhist beggar, but learn to trust your instincts when throwing stuff away, and that if you make a mistake and throw away something necessary for the purpose of your life, God will cause that thing to come back to you.  Maybe not the SAME object you threw away, but an object that does the same thing. 

 

Also, sometimes we need to get rid of stuff to have better stuff.  You mention getting rid of a lamp, and then needing a lamp.  Okay, your lamp sat in your garage for 6 years and you never liked it enough to use it.  You got rid of it and a new lamp came into your life.  A lamp that you apparently use and like.  You did not "waste" a lamp, you see.  Having a lamp that you don't like and don't use is a waste of space.  Trading it in, as it were, on a lamp you do like and use is good.  I think if you were to get rid of more stuff that you don't like and don't use, you will find that you have room in your life for stuff that you DO like and DO use to appear. 

 

What about the garage? It's right next to the house and it's a disaster area. But then again, it's not "in the house".

This has got to be fixed too, although start with the house since you spend most of your time there and you will get the most immediate benefit of living in a more spacious and peaceful area.  But fung shui does not just apply to your house; it applies to everything you own.  You can draw a fung shui bagua in your car, in your house, in each room of your house and on your property.

[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #31 - 05/01/08 03:33 PM



If you have a clean house but a storage building (like a garage) full of junk, then that junk will affect whatever section of the bagua it sits on for the property.  So that's why you have to keep everything that is your property tidy.  Obviously you aren't going to keep a garage as physically clean as a house (you're not going to eat food that you drop on the floor in there!), but it does need to be clutter-free and with the tools, etc. put up in a tidy, organized manner.  Then you will find that it's a pleasure to work in your garage! 

 

One of my biggest problems is that I can't find things. When my husband asks "where is X or Y" (and normally, X or Y was not needed for some time), I go into a panic mode. Literally. I feel sick and almost slip into depression whether I find X or Y or not.

Depression tends to cause clutter and clutter causes depression.  It's a vicious circle.  Two suggestions: one, Karen says if you can't get started because of depression, get your clutter up off the floor.  Most depressed people throw everything on the floor.  Secondly, do what I mentioned a few posts back about clapping out your corners to stir up the energy; that may motivate you to clutter-clean.  But you're not likely to break the depression if you don't get rid of stuff.  I mean, obviously you get physically ill and stressed out because you can't find anything because of the clutter; that feeling will not go away until the clutter does. 

 

Let go and let God, as the saying goes.  No one ever died for throwing out a potholder, only to realize they need one tomorrow.  The logical next step is to use a towel until you can go out and buy a new potholder.  See, nothing to panic about and no need to horde potholders.  God has cleverly made kitchen stores full of potholders (and many other things) so you can replace stuff if you need to.  So, if you "make a mistake" (not likely; more like you NEEDED to get rid of old thing and replace it with better thing) you can always fix it in a jiffy! 

 

That's something I've had to teach myself about sewing.  Patching and piecing out clothing in the middle ages was perfectly acceptable and done all the time.  So, okay, I made a mistake cutting and messed up the fabric.  Not for long; I will piece the fabric out and continue on my merry way making clothes.  And, you know what?  I make less mistakes now that I am not afraid to make them!  I cut fabric out with confidence, even stuff that's really expensive.  You need to learn to toss stuff with confidence and not worry about making mistakes (give yourself permission to correct them), and then you will find that you hardly ever throw out anything that you really regret.  (I'm trying to think if I ever got rid of anything I regretted; I did wish I still had my old keyboard when I was taking piano lessons at college so I could practice at home, but once the class was done, it would have gone back to being useless to me, so it wasn't that big a deal; just had to go on campus and use their pianos.  So, a minor inconvenience, but not a big regret or anything--and not worth having hung onto that keyboard and moved it several times over the years!)

---

keriamon
Message #32 - 05/01/08 03:54 PM

this all sounds like nonsense. but if you donate your stuff are you really building bad  karma?

Not bad karma, good.  Good acts, acts of kindness--in the traditions of Hinduism and Buddhism--are revisited upon you.  Bad acts are also revisited upon you.  And usually they multiply.  A small kindness to a person tends to net you a big kindness somewhere down the road; a bad act tends to net you a lot of woe later on. 

 

But this idea is not strictly limited to Eastern religions.  You will find it in the Judeo-Christian (and even Islamic) religions as well.  In the Beatitudes, Jesus himself says that people who are kind and meek here on earth will get their reward in heaven.  Karma tends to come around in one lifetime, but it does also follow you to the next life (literally through reincarnation, but also bad karma keeps you from getting to Nirvana--heaven). 

 

The concept that God, the Universe, etc. will reward you for being kind to your fellow man is in all modern (and some ancient) religions that I have looked at.  Donating stuff to a charity so that they can give them to the poor or sell them for money to work their charity programs is charity. 

 

Also, you don't have to look at any of this from a Fung Shui perspective.  Ignore energies and vibrations and baguas and all of that.  Any modern psychologist can still tell you--absent all the "new age" language--that clutter is depressing and that people who want to feel better about themselves have to learn to keep a tidy house.  That hoarding can be a serious psychological disorder (obsessive compulsive disorder).  Some people have even made the connection that people who are overweight are more likely to have a messy house, and that these are both signs of depression and low self-esteem. 

 

Or you can apply the Christian tradition that cleanliness is next to godliness.  Or that everything has a season--and a place--(turn, turn, turn--that song's lyrics are almost completely from Ecclesiastes).  The Jewish tradition has spring-cleaning built into it.  Prior to Passover, everyone throws out all the leavened grains in the house and gives the place a good physical cleaning to make sure that there are no leavened crumbs either.  In the Islamic tradition, houses are cleaned and sanctified before Ramadan, the month of fasting. 

 

So, it's not just a hokey new age Eastern thing that clean houses are good houses.  It's something encouraged in other faiths, and is even something encouraged outside of any faith at all.  And if something good happens to you after you donate stuff to charity or you clean your house, believe or not believe that it happened BECAUSE you did those things.  But, in any event, you will almost certainly find that you feel better in your home, and that's what matters most, right?   

---

phnxrth
Message #33 - 05/01/08 03:57 PM



I don't really understand this. If I think of the most uncluttered place it would be a home with little in the way of furnishings or possessions. If we then assume such homeowners would be people who don't really care about possessions, thereby not really caring about money, maybe we can make some logical connection between lack of clutter and prosperity, but a pretty tenuous connection at best. Usually a really uncluttered home is one where people cant afford much.

Then I think of the current trend in decorating toward large pieces of furniture, the layered look with lots of visual info everywhere, which is I guess is supposed to suggest such homeowners would have money. So that kills the whole feng shui argument again.

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pink.cshmere
Message #34 - 05/01/08 03:58 PM

I think if you were to get rid of more stuff that you don't like and don't use, you will find that you have room in your life for stuff that you DO like and DO use to appear. 

Keriamon: are you like my spirit sister or something? You keep making statements that are so close to what I've been thinking.

 

When I was on a mission in January to get the clutter out of my life and home (literally and figuratively), I kept saying that I was doing it to make room for the good things that I know are ahead for me.

 

I'm not all that familiar with feng shui, this was just something I came up with when I got serious about my "life overhaul" that I'm in the midst of.

 

Or maybe I'm just smarter than I realized??

---

Regie
Message #35 - 05/01/08 04:06 PM

I was going to do a good clean this weekend.  We'll see how it goes.

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seagull1024
Message #36 - 05/01/08 04:07 PM

Hi I am a newbie here..I joined WIR few days ago only. Reading through this thread I am embarrassed to admit that I have to declutter my "beauty section" under the sink cabinet. I have so many skin cares, hair stuffs that either I bought, used them through half bottles/jars and found new things I like better.. I have like 20 eye shadows that come with gift with purchased that used only a bit here and there..and numerous cosmetic pouches lying in the cabinet
I am determined to clean them up this weekend and only buy and keep the things I actually use from now on Thanks all so much

[Virgil Showlion]

pink.cshmere
Message #37 - 05/01/08 04:11 PM



FWIW I've found that the state of my desk directly correlates to the state of my finances. A few months ago, you couldn't even see the desk itself. It was overflowing with papers, unopened mail, all kinds of junk. The junk had also spread to piles on the floor, on top of the printer, even the hutch part (I think that's what it's called) was covered.

 

It seemed to take forever to get some kind of organization, and even now there are still several folders stuffed with papers that I haven't gotten around to. But at least you can see the desk now. Kind of.

 

When I'm on good financial footing, I file and or throw things away ASAP. When finances are overwhelming, I just don't want to deal with it and things pile up financially and on my desk. Then as the mess gets worse, I feel worse, and I get more overwhelmed, so repeat. Just a habit of mine I noticed over the years.

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HW3
Message #38 - 05/01/08 04:24 PM



Thanks, Keriamon

I think my obsession with boxes comes from the idea that I can pack my clutter into them. Boxed clutter is a lot better than scattered clutter in my book. Lol I think I eye every box I walk by, estimating the packing possibilities. Hmm maybe I should see someone about it!

 

Okay, your lamp sat in your garage for 6 years and you never liked it enough to use it.  You got rid of it and a new lamp came into your life.  A lamp that you apparently use and like.

Well, it sat there because I didn't have use for it. It's one of those types you use in an apartment where one of the rooms don't have ceiling light. We recently moved, and guess what, one of the rooms doesn't have ceiling light. The second one I bought was cheap. Frankly, it's an embarrassment

 

 

You can draw a fung shui bagua in your car, in your house, in each room of your house and on your property.

 

Hehe I guess it's time to read up on that. I don't even know what "bagua" is.

 

HW3, you're not a Cancer sign are you?  Karen Kingston said that she is a cancer and that cancers in particular are fond of boxes.  She said she used to keep large, empty boxes for some reason.  Freaked a moving guy out once when he heaved a box up, only to find out it was totally empty (yep, she was moving an empty box with her!). 

No, I'm a Leo. A messed up one, I guess

I think I overdid Mrs. Kingston: I overstuffed some boxes last time we moved only to save a few empty ones without them being torn or bumped.

 

I'll start working on de-cluttering. Will have to see what I can let go. I bond with things, boxes included. It used to drive me to tears to see a torn toy at a dumpster when I was little. It's not like we didn't have much when I was growing up- nobody had much, and there weren't many opportunities to buy things as the stores were empty. Different country, different issues. I used to love hand-me-downs. And often times when I'd get a new piece of clothes, mom would put it up so I don't mess it up. Then, a year later she's remember about it, but by this time I'd outgrow it... and we'd both cry. Mom is packer, much worse than I am, you see  Last time she visited, she insisted on going through my bathroom closet full of medicine, creams, shampoos, etc. The goal was to throw away expired things (plenty of those). I told her we'd have no luck and just waste our time. But no, she still wanted to do it. Three hours later we threw away all of TWO bottles of really yucky looking stuff. The rest was "well, I'm not sure what this is but you still might need it one day"

 

This is so funny, I'm typing it and thinking to myself, am I that crazy?

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #39 - 05/01/08 04:31 PM

keriamon, your message #32 was very beautiful and hits very close to my own thoughts.  Thanks for taking the time and effort to share these lessons with all of us.

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keriamon
Message #40 - 05/01/08 04:50 PM

Keriamon: I could use hints for incorporating feng shui also.

The first thing to do is get rid of clutter and physically clean the house.  Otherwise you might double your troubles instead of doubling your wealth, health or happiness with mirrors and the like. 

 

Next, fix broken things.  Broken things are bad fung shui (and don't you get tired of having something broken all the time?).  This also includes mending clothing; either mend it or throw it out, but don't let it linger in limbo.  Also complete unfinished tasks.  Have a letter you've been meaning to write?  Do it.  Have a light fixture you've been meaning to replace?  Do it.  Anytime you think "I need to do that..." write it down on a list and work on it when you have time (or right that minute, if you can).  The more things you have unfinished or broken around you, the more time you waste having to work around the problem, the more time your mind has to think about it and stress about it, and the more it will reflect in other aspects of your life--other issues will just seem to linger and never resolve.  Not saying you should never have anything that's half finished--after all, we can't churn out that book we've been wanting to write overnight--but most repairs and loose ends are not that time-consuming and you should tackle them and get them out of the way; the less unfinished things you have around you, the better off you will feel and the better other issues will come to completion.

 

If you just do those two things, you will probably find that things have righted themselves pretty well.  Those are the two biggest things to accomplish in order to be doing fung shui, so if you get them done, you don't necessarily have to do more.  Doing more will probably help some more, but your biggest rewards for effort will come from the first two steps. 

 

Here are some basic ideas of "more", but if you want even more than this, look into books or websites.  But don't apply "more" until you get those first two done or more will be effort wasted:

 

If you are single and/or lonely, look around your house at your decoration.  People who are stuck in loneliness have a tendency to decorate lonely too.  As in pictures with a single person or item in it.  Maybe even a depressing picture (like a dead tree in the middle of a field on a cloudy day).  They will also have a tendency to arrange furniture and decorations singularly.  One picture on a wall.  One piece of furniture against the wall.  One lamp.  A vase with one flower in it.  If you want to meet people and be more social, find pictures that are upbeat and that make you happy and hang them up.  Especially find pictures that have several people (or large objects) in them.  Group pictures--instead of a single large picture, try a cluster of pictures all the same size or a medium-sized picture with two or three coordinating smaller pictures.  Vases should have bunches of flowers, and maybe two vases.  Or you can even pair a vase with a candle.  Have a pair of lamps.  Anything that keeps you from having a single object sitting out in the open all by itself.  Now, this is not to say that if you are a single person who wants a partner that you should have no single objects or pictures with single objects in them, but you need to tone them down so that singular things are very much in the minority. 

 

For people with depression issues especially, don't have downward hanging things--especially heavy things.  So, if you have those old-fashioned heavy drapes on all of your windows, you might try replacing some of them with swags (which visually lift upwards at the ends).  At the very least, trade heavy drapes for something lighter and airier.  Don't have many vine plants that trail downwards (they are better kept outside where they are balanced by grass and trees and bushes which all go up). 

 

Speaking of plants, don't keep a lot of cactus in the house.  There's nothing like having highly defensive plants that hurt if you touch them to make you prickly in personality as well.  Also avoid plants with very pointed, d

---

keriamon
Message #41 - 05/01/08 04:54 PM



Also avoid plants with very pointed, dagger-like leaves or balance them out by pairing them with a plant that has rounder or curling leaves.  You also don't want a house full of plants that look like bunches of green daggers all pointing at you.  Again, these are much better outside where other plants balance them out.   

 

If you can at all avoid it, don't place your bed so that the foot faces the wall where the door (closet doors don't count) is located.  If you can't put the bed anywhere else, at least don't align it so that the foot of the bed is DIRECTLY across from the door.  Off-setting it is helpful.  The reason given behind this is that corpses in China (and in the old tradition in the US, come to think of it) are carried out of the house feet-first, and it's thought to be bad ju-ju to lay yourself out in your bed like a corpse about to be carried out.

 

As someone else mentioned, don't have mirrors that you can see yourself in while laying in bed.  It's supposed to startle you while you are sleeping (I guess because you are always afraid of the movement you see in the mirror and you don't sleep as well because your subconscious is constantly on the alert for intruders).  You're also not supposed to store stuff under your bed, but depending on your house, that may not be possible.  I know I have to have that room because we don't have a big enough house for all our stuff.  But, at the very least make sure it's not unwanted stuff (clutter) under the bed, and if you can pick and chose what you put under there, bed linens or out-of-season clothing is the best choice. 

 

There's a LOT of other stuff--like painting your front door an auspicious color to invite luck in--but I think I've covered some of the bigger stuff that's applicable to most people.  After all, a red or black front door would look horrible on some people's houses because of the color of the house itself.  And it's always worse to paint a door a clashing color than it is to leave it alone. 

 

Remember, look for HARMONY in everything.  Fung Shui is touchy-feely.  Place things because they feel right.  Get rid of things that do not feel right.  Make sure things compliment each other; don't let colors or object clash.  Also, Fung Shui is individual.  You may have a painting with big splashes of orange and red on it that you absolutely love, but your mother thinks it's the most hideously garish thing she's ever seen.  If you feel it makes you happy and that it fits in with everything else in the room, leave it.  Just be careful of other people who live in your house.  I took down several of my husband pictures when I moved in because I didn't like them (and one needs repairing).  One is just ugly, one doesn't do anything for me, and one is majorly depressing (it's the one that's down for repairing).  I think my husband could be convinced to get rid of the first two because I don't think he's that married to them anyways, but he DOES like the depressing one.  For whatever reason, it's not depressing at all when he looks at it.  So, when I get my workroom built and move my computer and office stuff out of the spare bedroom and turn that over to him to be his own private man-room, I will turn the picture back over to him to hang in there if he wants.  It's not a space I will be active in, so I will not be depressed by the picture and he will be uplifted by it.   

 

So, when you are in common living areas, you DO need to take in the feelings of the other members of your household towards decorating.  However, where people have a space or room all their own, let them decorate it in a way that suits them.  You may not like Barbie-pink at all, but to your little girl that may be the best color ever in the whole wide world.  Let her have her Barbie-pink walls because that's where she lives most of the time and she needs to feel happy there.

---

keriamon
Message #42 - 05/01/08 05:08 PM

I'm not all that familiar with feng shui, this was just something I came up with when I got serious about my "life overhaul" that I'm in the midst of.

 

Or maybe I'm just smarter than I realized??

Well, from a religious perspective, some would say that there are certain truths in the universe, and that because they are so pervasive, it's not hard for people to pick them up independently of anything else.  Have you ever looked for "The Golden Rule" in non-Christian religions?  It's everywhere!  It's the core foundation of every modern religion.  That's not an idea that one person came up with and spread around--it arose independently in many places.  So some people would see that as a sign that The Golden Rule is a universal truth that anyone can find.  So maybe the idea of "out with the bad and in with the good" is a universal truth (the fact that that's an old saying would seem to indicate that it's pretty important because it's stuck around!). 

 

I am determined to clean them up this weekend and only buy and keep the things I actually use from now on Thanks all so much

See how de-cluttering saves money?  Once tidy, you will like it so well you won't buy stuff to fill it back up again. 

 

If you feel bad about throwing away cosmetics that are good, but you don't want anymore, here are a couple of things you can do: I found that lotions and perfumes placed in the ladies room where I work are very popular.  People don't care if those things are already open/partially used because it's for common use (although good stuff might go home with someone, lol).  If you have a lot of things that are unopened, you might want to drop them off at a woman's shelter.  Nothing like pretty cosmetics to make a battered woman feel a bit better about herself.  Also helpful to ladies who are trying to get a job.  If you have a girl in your family somewhere, you can give her used makeup to play dress up with (my mother used to give me hers all the time). 

[Virgil Showlion]

2007debtheaven
Message #43 - 05/01/08 05:23 PM

Keriamon, you rock.

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alinal11
Message #44 - 05/01/08 05:46 PM

Usually a really uncluttered home is one where people cant afford much.

Then I think of the current trend in decorating toward large pieces of furniture, the layered look with lots of visual info everywhere, which is I guess is supposed to suggest such homeowners would have money. So that kills the whole feng shui argument again.

Who cares about decorating trends?  I want to decorate my home in a way that makes me feel comfortable.  I hate too much visual info - too messy.  I'm not decorating to make other people think that I have money (plus, if I buy all that carp, I'll definitely have less money for more important things).

I had the most clutter when I was younger and poorer - my bedroom as a teenager, college dorm room, first apartment.  Now that I can afford to buy a lot more, I choose not to.  I have furniture, I have things in my home, but I don't have a lot of stuff "just because".  (Just because it was cheap, just because someone gave it to me, etc.)  I only bring in and keep things that I really love or need.

Mostly though, it is because I'm lazy and hate to clean.  The less clutter, the easier it is to clean.  Works for me.

---

Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #45 - 05/01/08 06:00 PM

It's not quite feng shui, but I have been feeling better in general since I have been decluttering my stuff. Everytime I get rid of something it's like I'm a little bit lighter because it's one less thing I have to take care of and keep track off. I am finding homes for some of the pictures and posters( just hanging up the ones I like, DH told me to have fun with the decorating) and ever since I hung up a Celtic patterned picture in my hallway it not only makes the space feel bigger but it makes it feel brighter as well. And since I hung with the picture my husband has been more receptive to some of my ideas. Like using coupons for groceries( my MIL used coupons as an excuse to buy more, DH felt the same way but after I merely said that we should only use coupons for things we would already buy he had an AHA! moment and now doesn't use them unless it is for something that we already need). The picture has bright bold colors with a white background. And it makes me happy everytime I see it because it inspires me to finish my other projects( it was once a project that due to work and school obligations took me a year to finish coloring. I love fuzzy posters).

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keriamon
Message #46 - 05/01/08 06:27 PM

The second one I bought was cheap. Frankly, it's an embarrassment

Ah.  Here's another rule: don't buy stuff you don't like.  It's a waste of money, you see.  Because one day you will get so fed up with that ugly lamp that you will get rid of it and get a lamp that you really like.  Better to get a lamp you really like to start with (unless you get one for free, then you can't argue with that--just replace it when you get the money for a better one).  If you can't afford a lamp that you really like, can you do without one until you can?

 

There's a fine line to walk with that sort of thing.  I mean, if you are holding out for a Waterford Crystal chandelier, you will live unhappily in darkness for a decade!  But if you do without for a few weeks while actively hunting for a likeable, affordable lamp, then you will be happiest all around (and not waste money buying something that will not do). 

 

I don't even know what "bagua" is.

A bagua (and I may be spelling that wrong--may be a bauga) is a chart that is divided into nine sections--three along each edge and one in the center--and each one corresponds to an aspect of life.  One is for health, one for wealth, one for friends, etc.  You basically envision a room (many people make a simple drawing) sectioned up like this and then you look to see what all you have in that section.  So if you have bad health, you might look to the health section of each room, the overall house and the overall property to see if you have any clutter, broken things or bad Fung Shui decorations in that area.  Theory is you fix the problem, your health will improve.  You can also put an abundance of pleasant things in a section to make that section work more.  Like putting a mirror in your wealth sections to try and double your prosperity.  Or putting groups of objects in your friends section to try and increase your social life. 

 

I bond with things, boxes included.

I used to be very possessive of my possessions.  I got that from my mother.  I mean, the woman can't just GIVE a gift.  She saw me selling a porcelain doll she gave me for Christmas when I was like 12 and she had a total cow.  How dare I sell that.  How dare I not sell that for more than she paid for it (um, right, like it magically increased in value).  I finally let her take it back just to get her to shut up.  How sad is that?  I had to give MY PRESENT back to my mother because I was never supposed to have parted with it.  At age 28, a porcelain ballerina dollar was just supposed to be precious to me (namely because my mother thought it was worth a lot of money--and there's no convincing her it wasn't worth $25--because it wasn't selling at that price!). 

 

I got over my possessions in college as I studied Eastern religions and fung shui more (although you can, again, find this in other religions, it's just sometimes we get so used to being of a particular religion that its message just isn't reaching us; we've grown to assume we know all about it and we don't need to revisit it and look at it with fresh eyes, if that makes sense).  Karen talks about people who are overly attached to their possessions--to the point that their possession possess them, instead of the other way around.  (I really think you should read her book, by the way, LOL.)  You may have seen me mention it on the board before--counseling people to sell stuff to raise money to pay their bills (or worse, buy groceries and keep the lights on).  And you will see people who freak out, I CAN'T get rid of the television!  I'd die without it!  I CAN'T sell my furniture because it's ANTIQUE!  And they'd rather keep their possessions tight around them than make the house payment, or would rather go bankrupt than sell a single thing.

 

The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.  What happens when people, who elevate their possessions to such extreme personal value, lose them all in a fire, flood or tornado?  People are crushed.  That's because they've projected all of their love into these things that have been taken away from them.  They feel like they ha

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keriamon
Message #47 - 05/01/08 06:33 PM



They feel like they have lost part of themselves because they've poured so much of themselves into these things.  They usually wind up with major depression because of the loss. 

 

Now, I'm not saying I'd not be upset if I came home to find the house gone, but I've worked to make my possessions just stuff.  Stuff can be replaced or lived without.  I'd get over it pretty quickly and with less stress or depression than other people.  Now, my husband, that is someone I pour all of my love and self into; I could lose everything I owned 100 times over if I could just keep him.  So I have my attachment, but it's at least a living person, not a coffee table.  I think people deserve more love and attachment than a coffee table, don't you? 

 

Karen tells the story of "they've come for the stereo."  I believe this is based on a conversation she had with someone who was super laid-back about possessions.  He said that if he came home to find his stereo stolen he'd say "It's gone back to God."  This person was of the opinion that everything we have is given to us by God, and God can take it back when it serves His purpose.  He said that would then leave him room in his life to get a new stereo, or to do without one and spend more time meditating. 

 

I'm not QUITE that laid-back yet (the vast majority of people aren't!), but that story is something I try to remember when I start finding myself REALLY attached to something.  I don't want my possessions to possess me. 

 

Can you see that your possession are possessing you?  You can't get rid of something, even though it's expired and/or you don't know what it's for.  I am going to assume that you don't horde old meat.  You'd not eat expired meat.  Why would you put lotion on your face that's expired?  While it's probably not harmful, like spoiled meat, it has an expiration date because it will start to separate and it won't work properly.  Why keep something that doesn't work properly?  Likewise, if you found something in the back of the fridge and you couldn't identify it, would you eat it?!?  Maybe it will help you to look over stuff like you look over food.  "If this were food, would I keep it?" 

 

You also mentioned getting something akin to a panic attack when you have to deal with your clutter (as in find something).  I assume you don't like feeling that way, but, as I said before, that feeling will not go away unless you get rid of some stuff.  You say that you are bonded to all of your stuff, and yet it clearly makes you unhappy frequently.  Why are you hanging onto stuff that makes you feel bad?  Isn't that a form of self-punishment?  To keep stuff that makes you feel bad because you think you love it?  Have we not seen this here with women in relationships where they say that they love their man, even though said man seems to have no redeeming characteristics?  Oh no, they can't leave their man, even though he is psychologically/emotionally/physically abusive; even if he's a lazy mooch. 

 

You are in an abusive relationship--with your stuff.  Your stuff psychologically abuses you--that's those panic attacks it causes you.  It controls you because you can't bring yourself to get rid of it.  It's lazy and makes you take care of it (box it up, dust it, etc.).  And you are part of a circle of abuse--you learned to be cowed by your possessions from your mother.  Your children will learn it from you. 

 

This is not crazy; it happens all the time.  It tends to be strongest in people who did without.  People who lived through The Depression tend to be hoarders and raise hoarders.  Many immigrants who came from poor countries tend to hoarde when they get to America and raise hoarders.  Many, many Holocaust survivors are hoarders.  In the book "Maus", the author (son of two survivors), after many, many years, finally figures out why his father has always been an obsessive compulsive hoarder; he did so long without stuff both in the ghetto and then in the concentration camp that he was never able to switch off his need to scavenge for anything that might be useful o

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keriamon
Message #48 - 05/01/08 06:34 PM



or worth something.  The dad mentioned that string was a valuable thing in the concentration camp.  The Nazis would not give prisoners belts or shoelaces (and due to starvation, neither clothes nor most shoes fit anyone), so a string was something great.  You could hold up your pants with it, you could tie on your shoes, you could tie your bowl to your belt so no one would steal it from you.  You might could trade a good string to someone that didn't have one for a bite of their bread ration.  In those perverted circumstances, strings were gold.  But even after Liberation, the author's father wasn't able to get away from that mindset that everything has value and that he might need it one day.  He lived with the very real fear that times might be that desperate again (despite moving to the U.S.).  So he became an obsessive hoarder.

 

So, if you grew up in poverty, or were raised by people who grew up in a lot of poverty, you are very likely to become a hoarder.  But, you are no longer in poverty.  In fact, you have access to such abundance of STUFF that what was a survival trait in poverty has become a miserable, depressing trait in plenty.  You are keeping more than any one person really needs.  And it's making you miserable.  You went from an extreme of not having enough in childhood (or being taught that you didn't have enough) to having so much that it's crushing you.  It's like food.  The human body was designed for self-survival.  Back when we lived on what we could kill or gather, people would stuff themselves in times of plenty and hoard food for when there was nothing.  Your body's metabolism slows down when you don't eat enough food (in its opinion) to conserve energy so you can live through the famine.  When you suddenly get more food, it keeps the metabolism slow for a long time so it can hoard calories as fat so it will have something to live off of if (when) famine comes again.  So both people and the body itself is all about food hoarding.  Well, of course, we don't need that feature anymore because food is always abundant here in the U.S.  Calories are easy to come by.  But still many people overeat and hoard food at home because it's nature to do so.  Then when they go on diets and restrict calories, their bodies fight to hoard the fat because it fears famine.  So, what was a trait in us and our bodies that allowed us to survive poverty is now something that impedes our lives because we get end up with more fat than we will ever need.  This is the same with you and hoarding.  It was necessary in poverty, but now you have all this excess fat (stuff) that's not necessary and is now adversely affecting your health.  At least, though, when you "diet" your house, your house will not fight back the way the human body does! 

[Virgil Showlion]

2007debtheaven
Message #49 - 05/01/08 06:53 PM

People who lived through The Depression tend to be hoarders and raise hoarders.  Many immigrants who came from poor countries tend to hoarde when they get to America and raise hoarders.  Many, many Holocaust survivors are hoarders. 

This is very true, but it can work both ways. DH's mom was a war baby in the UK, and that woman hoarded like no one else. My parents were both Holocaust survivors, my mom hoarded (as much as you can hoard in a 2BR apt) perpetually trying to compensate for her sense of deprivation. But my dad reacted the opposite way, he felt that "stuff" and "things" had absolutely no value, because they didn't, compared to all he had lost. So it really can work both ways.

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keriamon
Message #50 - 05/01/08 06:55 PM

I don't really understand this. If I think of the most uncluttered place it would be a home with little in the way of furnishings or possessions.

Yes, but no.  Just because you don't have clutter doesn't mean you don't have a couch or a television or a coffee table.  It just means you don't have a couch so full of pillows there's no room to sit.  Or you don't have a television in every room of the house.  Or you don't have a coffee table that is covered in junk mail and last night's dishes (oh man, that's me right now!).  In short, your house is tidy and the possessions you do have are easily accessed and used. 

 

I worked at an office that I described as "Japanese minimalism that failed miserably."  That's what you are describing--a place with nothing in it.  That is NOT Japanese minimalism and is NOT fung shui.  My old office building lacked pictures on the walls, lacked plants in the lobby, lacked furniture anywhere that was not a cubicle or office.  And it was bizarre, sterile, and most people did not like that building as well as the old one!  In fung shui--and Japanese decorating, for that matter--you have stuff, you just keep it to what you need and don't keep what you don't need.  For some people, a couch in the living room is not needed or wanted; they'd rather have chairs.  Some people love lamps on their end tables and some would never use them.  So what is needed varies from home to home, but you always have in there what you need.  You don't sit on the floor and refuse to buy a chair or couch.  That's not fung shui.  That's not harmonious living in your home.    

 

If we then assume such homeowners would be people who don't really care about possessions, thereby not really caring about money, maybe we can make some logical connection between lack of clutter and prosperity, but a pretty tenuous connection at best. Usually a really uncluttered home is one where people cant afford much.

Or it's the home where people are smart and aren't ruled by possessions.  While yes, poor people aren't likely to have a lot of possessions, those millionaires next door you hear tell about aren't likely to be swamped with stuff either.  That's because they'd rather spend their money on intangibles, like vacations and early retirement and college educations for the kids.  So, are you looking at a poor person or someone that's got a million in assets and just got back from a month in Asia???  I have an aunt and uncle who keep a tidy, uncluttered house.  They aren't into upgrading everything every few years; they buy something they like and use it up or wear it out.  They also are loaded and have no debt. 

 

Then I think of the current trend in decorating toward large pieces of furniture, the layered look with lots of visual info everywhere, which is I guess is supposed to suggest such homeowners would have money. So that kills the whole feng shui argument again.

 

What kills it?  That the "style" is to buy more junk than you need and show it off so you can look wealthy does not "kill" fung shui but reinforces the need for it!  People who practice fung shui do NOT decorate to impress other people and they do not decorate because it's something everyone else does.  Like I said before, fung shui is touchy-feely and individualistic, so the same style of decorating doesn't work for everyone.  Cookie-cutter interior decorating (like Rooms to Go) is not fung shui.  Fung shui is "the art of arranging your living space harmoniously."  Rooms to Go is neither a practicing art nor something that can just be plopped into your living room and suddenly be harmonious. 

 

People need to quit trying to keep up with the Jones's decorating style the same way they need to quit keeping up with the way the Jones's spend money!  Be happy with your house as you fix it, be happy with what your money can buy you! 

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keriamon
Message #51 - 05/01/08 06:57 PM

But my dad reacted the opposite way, he felt that "stuff" and "things" had absolutely no value, because they didn't, compared to all he had lost. So it really can work both ways.

Absolutely.  Just as kids who are raised by smokers can grow up to refuse to smoke.  Or kids who have an alcoholic parent grow up to be anti-booze.  But the odds are, you are more likely to repeat the behavior of your parents than you are to totally reject it.  Smoking and drinking have similar odds.  I seem to recall it's over 60%--meaning more than half of your kids will turn out just like you.  The cat's in the cradle and all that. 

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keriamon
Message #52 - 05/01/08 07:05 PM

(Today is Holocaust Remembrance day; I will think of your family, Debtheaven.)

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2-busy
Message #53 - 05/01/08 07:09 PM



What a GREAT idea!  Count me in.  My allergies and asthma are really bad right now.  I think it's because there's so much junk in my house I can't clean everything well.

 

What's everybody's favorite room to start in when your whole house is trashed?

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keriamon
Message #54 - 05/01/08 07:11 PM



Okay, I've done Turn, Turn, Turn and The Cat's in the Cradle.  Time for another song (and one I really like; heard it on the radio this morning):

 

Now, don't hang on;

nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky.

It slips away

and all your money won't another minute buy. 

 

Dust in the wind.  All we are is dust in the wind. 

[Virgil Showlion]

2007debtheaven
Message #55 - 05/01/08 09:02 PM

Thank you Keriamon. 

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keriamon
Message #56 - 05/01/08 09:04 PM

What's everybody's favorite room to start in when your whole house is trashed?

Usually the master bedroom.  It's usually the least trashed, which means I can clean it up fastest, and it's also at one end of the house, so I start in it and work my way down through the house. 

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boos_mom
Message #57 - 05/01/08 09:21 PM

I used to be very possessive of my possessions.  I got that from my mother.  I mean, the woman can't just GIVE a gift.  She saw me selling a porcelain doll she gave me for Christmas when I was like 12 and she had a total cow.  How dare I sell that.  How dare I not sell that for more than she paid for it (um, right, like it magically increased in value).  I finally let her take it back just to get her to shut up.  How sad is that?  I had to give MY PRESENT back to my mother because I was never supposed to have parted with it.

My mother bought my child a Cabbage Patch doll (!!!) for Christmas from QVC or HSN.  The first one didn't work properly, so she returned it (paid for her shipping back) and got a new one that kind of works.  I was trying to hint to her at Christmas that it'd just be easier if she returned it and not get a replacement.  She didn't take the hint.  The doll is sitting in the box because frankly I think it's creepy and would love to donate it.  Of course, I know when I do, she will ask where the doll is and be offended that I gave it away.  Her place is so clogged with junk/stuff that I get anxiety attacks going in there. 

I know I'm not the tidiest person and I have a tendency to hoard things as well.  But I'm really trying not to do that anymore.  I wish I were more like my sister who has a pretty darn tidy house for having 2 boys with a lot of toys.  No little knicknacks.  Hardly any shelves with junk on it.  Not too much junk mail piling up.  Lots of open floor space.  That is so relaxing.  My sister takes after our maternal grandmother.  My mom went the other way.  I'm teetering on the brink, falling toward the dark side. 

So, yes, I would love to join you in your cleaning mission, but my cleaning will take months to do.  Plus, I need to have my relative/boarder leave (by the end of the month, hooray!) so I can start making #1 move rooms and get her room ready for #2.  But I am so looking forward to a less cluttered living room and trying to clear off the dining table and kitchen counters!

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T-Bird_Money
Message #58 - 05/01/08 09:27 PM

If you are single and/or lonely, look around your house at your decoration.  People who are stuck in loneliness have a tendency to decorate lonely too.  As in pictures with a single person or item in it.  Maybe even a depressing picture (like a dead tree in the middle of a field on a cloudy day).  They will also have a tendency to arrange furniture and decorations singularly.  One picture on a wall.  One piece of furniture against the wall.  One lamp.  A vase with one flower in it.  If you want to meet people and be more social, find pictures that are upbeat and that make you happy and hang them up.  Especially find pictures that have several people (or large objects) in them.  Group pictures--instead of a single large picture, try a cluster of pictures all the same size or a medium-sized picture with two or three coordinating smaller pictures.  Vases should have bunches of flowers, and maybe two vases.  Or you can even pair a vase with a candle.  Have a pair of lamps.  Anything that keeps you from having a single object sitting out in the open all by itself.  Now, this is not to say that if you are a single person who wants a partner that you should have no single objects or pictures with single objects in them, but you need to tone them down so that singular things are very much in the minority. 

So you're saying my favorite painting - left behind in one of my appartments long ago by a painter - who's father had been a photographer in vietnam with the troops - of a dying naked man crawling through skulls on a canvas about 3 feet by 5 feet, is not a good thing to put on the walls?

It's my favorite....I was just getting ready to hang it again....it's been in my parents basement since we moved....

This painter, he could be famous...someday....

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HW3
Message #59 - 05/01/08 09:29 PM



I was looking at the map of the house on Karen's website and I'm pretty confused. How do you know which door to start from? Our front door- we do not use it. Ever. It leads directly to kids' room- our happy little disaster area.

We come in through the back door. So should I start mapping from there? I'm a little bit worried that I will end up completely reversing the map and putting my money corner into a wrong place

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MP Dunleavey
Message #60 - 05/01/08 09:32 PM



Very true, it's not about spreadsheets, so let me rephrase--I don't think there's a measurable, observable relationship between creating space at home and better financial health.  It's just that like many people, I believe that when one aspect of life is 'cleaned up', good results might be seen in other aspects.

 

I was thinking more in terms of focusing on two things:  decluttering of the house, or some part of it, and charting finances as we normally do around here.  Two projects, not one--then, at the end of the month, see if there have been improvements in both areas, neither, one or the other and so on.  Not scientific, no spreadsheets, just exploring another way to bring about financial sanity.

[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #61 - 05/01/08 09:40 PM



The depressing picture my husband has is a Civil War print of three Confederate soldiers standing around a pitiful excuse for a fire, in the snow, in their ragged clothes, barefoot, and they are clearly huddled up against the cold.  He says that's not depressing.  I say how can it not be depressing???  Barefoot, ragged men in the freezing cold?  This is what the South looked like when the war was lost.  This is us losing.  How can you not find that depressing?  He says it's called The Winter of Hope.  What hope?  This was like the winter before the surrender.  There was no hope.  NO HOPE.  This is a picture of broken men.  The Lost Cause once it was truly and irrevocably lost.  Why not just have a picture of people in Vicksburg eating their dogs? 

 

Funny, his mother gave him a print of Grant and Lee parting ways at Appomattox and he doesn't like it.  He thinks THAT looks like a depressing surrender picture.  I thought it was touching in Grant and Lee tipping their hats to one another.  Respectful, you know.  Everyone's at least got shoes.   

 

So, obviously, we don't see eye-to-eye on art--not Civil War art, anyways.  LOL

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knoelle
Message #62 - 05/01/08 09:58 PM

Thanks to seagull for the idea about getting rid of all the extra beauty products under the sink, I really need to do that.  My mom is a hoarder/collector for sure, and she made me take all of the little sample size shampoos, etc. out of a hotel room once, telling me how great it is to save that stuff up.  So I've been collecting samples out of hotels for years sort of mindlessly, since I know she'd want me to.  But have I ever used any of it?  Heck no.  I can definitely purge that.  I am getting rid of magazines that have piled up; I know a woman who teaches ESL who wants them for projects in the classroom.  Does anyone have any ideas for what to do with paperback books?  I don't think those can be sold to secondhand book stores, but maybe they take them without paying you? 

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PauletteG
Message #63 - 05/01/08 10:05 PM

knoelle, try [www.bookcrossing.com] bookcrossing for ideas on what to do with paperback books. Also donations to libraries, subsidized public housing common areas...

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keriamon
Message #64 - 05/01/08 10:10 PM

I don't think those can be sold to secondhand book stores

Our bookstore takes them.  Might not get much for them, but they will buy them.  We like to get credit for our books and then get some more! 

 

So I've been collecting samples out of hotels for years sort of mindlessly, since I know she'd want me to.  But have I ever used any of it?  Heck no.  I can definitely purge that. 

I have actually heard of people pouring the mini bottles into one large shampoo bottle (yes, mixing them all up).  Same for liquid soap.  Not sure how well it works, but if you want to spend the time pouring all of them out (I suggest a funnel), then you might try it.  You can put bars of soap in a small cloth bag and use them together to wash (you know, those bags like you use for soap chips)--soap bags are good for kids who can't handle a bar of soap well.     

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #65 - 05/01/08 10:13 PM

Try your local library. Mine has a book sale every so often to raise money for their programs. My problem right now is I have a series of books that at one point I must have loved. I have the entire series and even shelled out the money to buy some of them in hard cover as soon as they came out. I don't want to give them to the library because I don't want them to be split up but when I tried to re-read them( brought all my books over from my parents house, trying to see which ones I still like) I found them too complicated and couldn't get into them. All are still in mint condition( I know I have only read the last three books once) and even the mint books at the sale end up mangled looking. The rest of the books are just getting tossed into the "free to good home" tote that is next to my front door. It's just stuff, why should I care what happens to it after it leaves my house if I no longer enjoy it or have a need for it? And yet I have these books with glossy covers and all the page corners still as sharp as the day they were printed sitting on my table. Anyone want the Crown of Stars series? I'll pay shipping. 

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seagull1024
Message #66 - 05/01/08 10:18 PM

I have actually heard of people pouring the mini bottles into one large shampoo bottle (yes, mixing them all up).  Same for liquid soap.  Not sure how well it works, but if you want to spend the time pouring all of them out (I suggest a funnel), then you might try it.  You can put bars of soap in a small cloth bag and use them together to wash (you know, those bags like you use for soap chips)--soap bags are good for kids who can't handle a bar of soap well. 

Keriamon.. That's a great idea.. Thanks!!! I will pull all the lotion bottles that have some lotion left into one bottle and will use them for the kitchen hand moisturizer.

[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #67 - 05/01/08 10:23 PM

That's a great idea.. Thanks!!! I will pull all the lotion bottles that have some lotion left into one bottle and will use them for the kitchen hand moisturizer.

Ca-ching.  Saves money, eliminates the clutter of 1,001 tiny bottles!  Two for one, baby. 

 

We're on a roll!  What's next??? 

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knoelle
Message #68 - 05/01/08 10:23 PM



Now I'm intrigued....I want to mix together all of my shampoos and see what scent it will make.  I do have an almost empty large bottle.

 

Speaking of books you used to like...I have a whole bunch of the hardcover Anne Rice books.  I wonder what I could get for those.

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #69 - 05/01/08 10:37 PM

Hehe. All my Anne Rice books are already on their way to who knows where. I left those at my parents in their donation bin and mom took them into work to drop the bin off at the mission on her way home. They have a book exchange in their ladies room so they may have ended up there.

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I Am Worth It
Message #70 - 05/01/08 10:44 PM



I'm in....

 

I'm new to this message board and am in the process of gathering my bills so that I may create my first budget plan.  I'd been somewhat interested in feng shui but really don't know much about it.  I'll certainly give this a try.  I have a lot to do this weekend, but will commit to helping/supervising my DD's room, and personally doing the kitchen and bathroom.

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keriamon
Message #71 - 05/01/08 11:00 PM

but will commit to helping/supervising my DD's room,

This reminds me of a story I read from FlyLady.  A lady wrote in to talk about how she was getting into FlyLady.  She had, in the past, just gotten onto her son to "clean his room."  She finally decided, since it bothered HER so much, SHE should clean it up.  She said she was in there all day.  She found herself hopelessly trying to sort out 4 different kind of building blocks.  She couldn't figure out where to put stuff.  Finally she sat down on his bed and cried to know that she had been yelling at him all that time to clean his room when even she was unable to figure out how to do it.

 

When he came home, she talked to him about it.  What is a clean room, they asked?  A room where everything is put away neatly.  The problem with his room is that he had so much stuff, there was no where for it to live.  Hence why it was on the floor all the time.  So, together, they went through his room and collected up a bunch of toys that he no longer wanted and they donated them.  Then, they went out and bought some shelving and a bunch of plastic boxes.  Then they took the remaining toys and gave them a box or place on a shelf to live.  They labeled the boxes and the shelves and made sure everything had a place where it lived when it was not being played with. 

 

Her son has not had a messy room since.

 

Not saying you get onto your daughter like that, Lolly, but gosh, my mother did!  And I had the same problem--too much stuff and not enough room.  So, if your daughter's room seems to always defy straightening up, try that approach: reduce until you have room for everything to have a home. 

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pink.cshmere
Message #72 - 05/02/08 12:12 AM

 Anyone want the Crown of Stars series? I'll pay shipping. 

What is the Crown of Stars series?

[Virgil Showlion]

Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #73 - 05/02/08 12:45 AM

It's a series of five fantasy novels. The plot is really really involved and all five books are about 800 pages each. When I tried to reread them I got really confused really fast. It doesn't follow just one person. It follows like 10-15. That and the only way to even get the background story to the whole thing is to read the whole series. It's hard( for me at least) to follow and remember whose related to who and why half the characters are doing what they are doing.

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Sarahsmiling
Message #74 - 05/02/08 05:07 AM



Ok, I had a service come over today to give me an estimate for cleaning my house on a weekly basis.  Normally, I would work my @$$ off to get rid of the clutter before they got there, but this time, I let them see it as is.  Well, they WANT ME TO CLEAN BEFORE THEY COME TO CLEAN.  My house is too cluttered!!  AARG!  I just want to scream!   They will recheck my house in two weeks if I want them to. ?!#4!?  I know I need to pick up before the come around but that kind of burst my bubble a bit.

Otherwise, I have been fixing things around the house. (or having them fixed).  I have had a long list of to do's for a year or so but they are finally getting done.  I don't want to spend the money but I know that these things need to be done if we are going to sell our house in the next couple of years.

I also went through a ton of paperwork this last weekend to get rid of the piles in the house.  Felt really good.   Now, if I could get rid of the piles of laundry....

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Salamander
Message #75 - 05/02/08 12:30 PM

What's everybody's favorite room to start in when your whole house is trashed?

I cheated, and started in the bathroom.  Only one closet and one cabinet of junk to sort through, and got the instant sense of accomplishment after just an afternoon. I keep wandering back in there, open the closet door, and remind myself that this is the way I want the rest of the house to be. It's a nice pick-me-up.

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #76 - 05/02/08 02:31 PM

What's everybody's favorite room to start in when your whole house is trashed?

We have a lot of friends stop by so I always start with the entry to the house and work my way in from there, staircase, living room, dining room, kitchen...then I move up to the bathroom since guests are likely to go there.  Once those areas are done I am motivated to make our personal space (bedrooms, media room, office) just as orderly. 

So I finished my deep clean and clutter reduction last night.  DH comes home in a few hours.  It feels great to know that he will walk into a beautiful space after a long trip and that I can enjoy my weekend with him since all the housework is in order.  The only thing to do this weekend is return the items I've had around the house for weeks (gifts, and some clothes I ordered that don't fit properly) and to beautiful the yard.  The returns should give me some more $$ for my upcoming vacation.  Since I'll be working outside I think I will finally plant a tomato and herb garden.  Now that will save me $$!

Good luck ladies.

And keriamon, I think I'll check out the bagua, I could use a boost in my health and relationship corners!

Keep the updates coming ladies!

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keriamon
Message #77 - 05/02/08 02:39 PM

Now, if I could get rid of the piles of laundry....

Something my mother would sometimes do when she came to see me in college and I had these massive piles of laundry--load all of it up in the car, take it to the nearest laundromat, put it in a couple of large washers and get it all done at once.  Depending on how far you are from a laundromat, you may want to do this.  Washing only one load at a time takes ages.  But if you go to the laundromat, you can take up multiple machines or use some 3-load large machines and just wipe it all out in a couple of hours instead of fooling with it for an entire day or two.  Take a book or craft with you to wile away the time between switching from washing to drying.   

 

Also a good time to wash your large stuff like comforters and pillows.  Those can always use a twice-yearly wash. 

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keriamon
Message #78 - 05/02/08 02:47 PM



Okay, some more pearls of wisdom from Karen Kingston. 

 

If you want to know what it costs you to keep clutter, go through your house and estimate how much of each room is taken up by clutter.  So, a junk room would be 100% cluttered, but your kitchen may only be about 25% cluttered.  Stuff in closets and cabinets in those rooms count towards the estimate.

 

Add up each room and then divide by the number of rooms to see your average clutter.  The sample Karen gave was like 47% total.  That means that 47% of your rent/mortgage goes to pay to store things you don't like or need!  Of course, you still have to pay the full amount of mortgage/rent anyways, but wouldn't you prefer that the money you spend houses things you like? 

 

Something else she said that was very catching: You spent all that time and energy acquiring the clutter, surely you can find the time and energy to toss it back out again. 

 

So what's my average clutter?    If it were just things that we don't need/like, then it'd not be too bad (and if I could toss some of my husband's stuff for him (!) I'd not even be that bad, lol).  BUT, if clutter also includes too much stuff in too small a space and stuff that's disorganized (as Karen says it includes), then I throw my hands up!  Our house and garage both are so bad right now, I'd say it's 100% cluttered!!!

 

The more I see this, the more I know now why we've been having such a run of bad luck!  Heck, I've even grown despondent at work and have let the filing get backed up and have some real low-level projects that I've got on my list to do, but I have been putting them off and putting them off.  And I used to pride myself on having a pristine, uncluttered desk. 

 

SO, I am going to start my weekend early and start cleaning up here at work! 

[Virgil Showlion]

suzi Q
Message #79 - 05/02/08 02:54 PM

Keriamon,
Great idea!
I try my best, but my heart isn't in it. I happen to like my "clutter." Some of it is interesting stuff that has a voice from the past; pictures, vintage clothing, china and other dishes form the 1940's and 1950's.
Then again, there is my stockpile of toiletries and food. That is a whole other story..... all bought for FREE or pennies each item. The stockpile keeps me from every buying anything for FULL price, and my household bill for food, toiletries and pet food is about $25.00-$35.00 a week.
Sometimes a stockpile is good.
I think that the style is decluttering, which is great, but looks as if no one lives there. Everything looks so new, streamlined and perfect that it has a sterile "fake" look about it. Looks like the "staged" model home for sale.
I have a garage sale every 3 months. I get rid of whatever they will buy.

I do save crazy things.....crocheted baby cloths my MIL mad me before the kids were born. These were a labor of love, because she knew full well that she was dying of lung cancer, and would never see the kids in the outfits. She made them lovingly in all colors, for boys and well and girls, and she asked me if I like each pattern, and what sizes, etc. I can not throw those out. I would have to leave them for the kids to throw out.
My DD's first home made dress, made by me. My kid's Baptism clothes. The boxes of Happy Meals and toys fro McDonald's (now those I am willing to part with.) All in the attic, out of sight, but I know I need to clear it out.
I keep thinking that the kids will think this stuff is as important as I do, that they will love it when they get their own homes.
Sadly, they may think that it is all "junk." LOL.

---

abundanceandprosperity
Message #80 - 05/02/08 02:57 PM

SO, I am going to start my weekend early and start cleaning up here at work! 

Great idea, I'll start right now!

 

One of the tips that helps keep my house in quasi-order (and allowed me to declutter/clean the entire house in two weeks) is to build organizing systems into the decor and function of the room.  That sounds scary so let me explain what I mean. 

1) I used to be late on bills, not because I didn't have the $ but because I misplaced them or had a stack of mail/junk mail/catalogs to go through.  Now I have a side table by the front door with a small rectangular basket.  When I bring the mail in I sort it immediately, true mail/bills go in the basket to be brought upstairs to the office to pay them.  Junk goes immediately into the garbage/recycling.   No more misplaced bills or daunting piles of paper.

2) The entry looked like a dumping ground, shoes, boots, dog leashes/bags/balls, mail, sunglasses, whatever we commonly used when leaving the house sat in a pile by the front door.  Very attractive huh!  So I repurposed some storage cubes from the attic and placed them under the side table by the front door.  Now there is a place for everything and we don't have to search all over the house for things we only need by the door.

 

---

diyprincess
Message #81 - 05/02/08 03:32 PM



suzi Q - not sure how you would do this for your things, but here is what I've told my mom to do for stuff she wants us (my brother and I) to keep. 

She has tons of Christmas decorations that were my great-grandma's.  I told her to place them in a separate box with a label of why they are important to her with a small history of the item (who's it was, how they/she got it and why it's important to them/her).  This will relay the history on to us and give her satisfaction that we understand why she wanted us to have it. 

When she passes, it will allow us to know what things were important to her and had family history and what was just Walmart stuff w/no specific family history.  This also allows us to go through everything to decide if it is important enough for us to keep. 

You might be surprised what ends up being important to your kids.  For example, right now, I could care less about all of the Christmas decorations.  Because of my mom's attitude and personality - we (my brother and I) were never allowed to decorate the tree because it had to be 'just so' in her eyes.  Hence, I don't have any favorite ornaments or special family ties to the decorations.  But, when she had a garage sale last year and I found 'her' stuffed Garfield and Odie in there, I threw a fit and 'rescued' them.  Why?  Because I played with them for hours and slept with them as a young child - they were my 'long lost childhood' friends.

It will all depend on the importance of an item that you've passed on to your children.

---

seagull1024
Message #82 - 05/02/08 03:41 PM

Woohhoo.. last night after showering, I cleaned out the mess under the sink and combined all the half or near empty bottles of lotion into one big bottle. I tossed out a lot of junks that take almost 3 grocery bags. I feel so good afterward ladies.. It's like shredding your lbs off from your body you know what I mean LOL

Next will be the kitchen and my son's play area !!!

---

Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #83 - 05/02/08 03:46 PM

These are the last four lines of my favorite poem by Shel Silverstein.

Hector called to all the people,
"Come and share my treasure trunk!"
All the silly sightless people
Came and looked... and called it junk.

It's from Hector the Collector and I think this is kind of what we are working on. He collects things like broken string and headless dolls and he thinks that they are great treasures. But they are not. It's just stuff. We need to figure what is the real treasures in our home and keep them but we need to get rid of the junk.

And I am trying to figure out what the romance corner in our bedroom is because I have the perfect picture to hang there.

---

keriamon
Message #84 - 05/02/08 04:00 PM

I happen to like my "clutter." Some of it is interesting stuff that has a voice from the past; pictures, vintage clothing, china and other dishes form the 1940's and 1950's.

It's not clutter if you love it.  Note that clutter is things that you EITHER don't love or haven't used in a year or more.  It becomes clutter when you have more than you can easily contain or clean and maintain.

 

Fung Shui is not about decorating your house with new, impersonal things and leaving large sections of it empty. If a room is stark or sterile to you, it's not Fung Shui.  Fung Shui is the ART of living HARMONIOUSLY in your home.  So decorate with things that you love and that mean something to you.  I certainly would not get rid of my collection of family wedding rings, even though I never wear most of them.  That's because they mean something to me.  I like looking at them in the jewelry box.  If you have precious baby clothes, put them where you can see them (have them framed, for instance, or my mother put one of my outfits on a doll) and everyone can be reminded of the love of grandma. 

 

I keep thinking that the kids will think this stuff is as important as I do, that they will love it when they get their own homes.
Sadly, they may think that it is all "junk." LOL

My mother is still having trouble coming to terms with the fact that I no longer want my stuffed animals or old blocks and things like that.  For her, it's like she's finally having to acknowledge that maybe I'm not 7 years old anymore.  She's practically grieving to get rid of stuff that I just shrug my shoulders over!  Having gone through this myself, I suggest that for many things--like toys and refrigerator art--that you get your kids to go through that stuff every year or two and let them weed it out themselves.  Because if it doesn't mean anything to them when they are 10, it's not going to mean anything to them when they are 23.  That will help ease the burden of sorting stuff out--on you and them--when they are adults and you are an empty-nester. 

 

I would not let them make decisions on family heirlooms, though.  Keep grandma's gifts and the christening gowns.  As soon as someone in the family has a baby, offer them up.  Let them get passed around.  Start a tradition. 

 

Also, something I read for people who know they have too much stuff from the past, but can't decide about giving it up, take a picture of it and then give it up.  You can easily file a picture and look back and say, I remember that football (or whatever).  I mean, if you think about it, that's all we're pretty much doing when we pull something out of the attic--we are using it to trigger a memory.  We can do that with a picture just as well in most cases; only in some cases is the tactile thing (especially something that someone who is decesased touched) better.  Then you are not just looking for a memory, but to touch what someone else touched. 

 

Then again, there is my stockpile of toiletries and food. That is a whole other story..... all bought for FREE or pennies each item. The stockpile keeps me from every buying anything for FULL price, and my household bill for food, toiletries and pet food is about $25.00-$35.00 a week.

That's some more awesome grocery bill.  Wish I could do as well (I can't seem to find many useful coupons).  

 

Not saying you are one of them, but some people go overboard with this.  It's overboard when you have more in stock than a reasonable amount of shelf/closet/cabinet space will hold.  Or if you have more than you will ever use (like 24 tubes of toothpaste--no joke, I've read about it).  Shopping on sale can become a compulsive disorder same, as shopping and spending money you don't have.  Again, I'm not saying this is you, but there may be someone on here that sees that in herself.  When you have more than you can possibly use, or more than you can neatly store, then it's no longer a bargain, but clutter.  Two options to fix it.  One, donate stuff to friends, family, work, school or charity.  Two, put a moratorium on buying anything until you're

[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #85 - 05/02/08 04:03 PM



down to only one last item left in stock (after all, this is a home, not a Sam's Club, LOL).

 

I'm going to do that this week myself.  Our freezer is just about full, yet I keep buying food and cramming it it.  So I'm going to not buy anything this week and eat my way through the pantry and freezer.  That way I can have room for fresh foods, I will quit feeling guilty that I've not eaten that box of chicken cordon bleu, and I can save a week's worth of grocery money (which seems to be more valuable every week!).

---

seagull1024
Message #86 - 05/02/08 04:08 PM

Our freezer is just about full, yet I keep buying food and cramming it it.  So I'm going to not buy anything this week and eat my way through the pantry and freezer.  That way I can have room for fresh foods, I will quit feeling guilty that I've not eaten that box of chicken cordon bleu, and I can save a week's worth of grocery money (which seems to be more valuable every week!).

I am so guilty of that...sometimes I bought the food and put them in the back of the freezer and totally forgot about it.
I will copy what you will do to clean out the freezer to save $$ and space

---

boos_mom
Message #87 - 05/02/08 06:55 PM

Ok, I had a service come over today to give me an estimate for cleaning my house on a weekly basis.  Normally, I would work my @$$ off to get rid of the clutter before they got there, but this time, I let them see it as is.  Well, they WANT ME TO CLEAN BEFORE THEY COME TO CLEAN.  My house is too cluttered!!  AARG!  I just want to scream!   They will recheck my house in two weeks if I want them to. ?!#4!?  I know I need to pick up before the come around but that kind of burst my bubble a bit.

That would be me too, which is why I don't even think about getting a cleaning service. 

But, I'll definitely work on getting rid of stuff, so maybe one day as my long, hard-earned reward for permanent decluttering would be to get a cleaning service.

---

bclegal03
Message #88 - 05/04/08 02:18 AM

I read a little bit of this thread when it first started... so it inspired me to start cleaning up a little around the house.  I decided to start small and cleaned out a "junk" drawer we have in our kitchen.  I got rid of a lot of the clutter and outdated coupons stuck into the drawer.  When I got to the very bottom of the drawer, I found a 30 dollar gift card to a local restaurant.  I thought I had accidentally thrown it away months ago.  It was an exciting little surprise.  Something good came out of cleaning up!  I should do it more often!

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azure sky
Message #89 - 05/04/08 07:03 PM

I am back from the Dolly concert (It was just amazing...I feel so privileged to get to see her in concert ) and am now back to cleaning, rejoining you all.  For me, the first step is to really clean up everything.  Then, DH and I made a list of practical items in our house and walked to the hardware store to get started.  We fixed our old coat tree where the pegs had pulled off.  I polished all of our wooden furniture. 

What I am going to start on tonight is my desk .  I'll let you know how it goes once all the extra paper is filed and/or out.

---

2007debtheaven
Message #90 - 05/04/08 07:34 PM

Azure, I was wondering how it went! I'm glad you had a great time! You should write her a letter and tell her your story, about writing about her for your college essays.

We got back today from DS's graduation weekend (which was wonderful too!). The patio was finished while we were gone, so DH and I went to the garden store and I planted red geraniums and put them by the front door.

With the recent water damage in the basement I'll have to keep decluttering there too. I have eight shelves (for five of us, and two are pantry), I did six last fall and decided to leave the last two till next fall. Well, when the contractors moved them, those last two un-decluttered shelves collapsed, so now I have no choice. O the irony! But we're waiting for an insurance appraiser for the other basement room (which is DS's room when he's home), and with both basement rooms in havoc, I don't know when I'll be able to do it, I sort of need one done before I deal with the other so I can put stuff down on the floor. But visibly it will be sooner rather than later.

[Virgil Showlion]

surfacing
Message #91 - 05/05/08 02:26 AM



I am a paperwork pack rat married to a collector with two children who are savers of every thing!  Clutter is a major problem!  It is taking over our house.  It is so bad.  The biggest problem is I can't stand to throw out something that is still good.  Not everything is worthy of donating to Goodwill so I have stack of things to find a home for (old towels to the animal shelter) along with my bags for Goodwill.  I have a lot of things for Goodwill but I want to get that receipt for taxes and I'll have to inventory the boxes before I go....I need this thread!!!!!  It was a point of pride that I generated 2 bags of trash this weekend (from decluttering).  I haven't even touched the hard areas--my walk in closet that isn't walk in any more, my hall closet that I just kind of open and cram more stuff in, my DDs room, and God forbid the BASEMENT!!! 

I've been working on getting my finances in order for a while so I don't think I'll see any change in my finances but if something wonderful happens I won't complain!! 

---

keriamon
Message #92 - 05/05/08 03:27 PM

I found a 30 dollar gift card to a local restaurant.  I thought I had accidentally thrown it away months ago.  It was an exciting little surprise.  Something good came out of cleaning up!  I should do it more often!

Ca-ching!  There you are, Mia.  Clean your house, find money (or rather, gift card).  Reminds me of stories of people looking through old gift cards to find money still in them.  When my parents cleaned out my step-father's mother's cedar chest after she went into a nursing home, I think they found nearly $500 still in the cards in it. 

 

I'll have to inventory the boxes before I go....I need this thread!!!!! 

The next time you go to put something in the Goodwill box, write it down.  Don't handle things more than once.  Right now you are putting into the box, taking back out of the box to log, then putting it back into the box.  Just keep a running list with the box and everything you put in, put it on the list right then and it when it's full, it can go and it won't be such a chore. 

 

Also, sometimes you just have to say: is this worth the hassle?  If not, just toss it all in the car and take it to Goodwill.  Remember that your time is worth money too, as are the peaceful feelings that having boxes of junk out of the way can generate.  Sometimes we make so many little chores for ourselves that we can't get anything large done.  Sometimes you just have to make a big push forward by any means possible to get some momentum. 

 

Karen Kingston has a solution to the situation you have; give yourself a month to get everything that you have sorted taken off to the Goodwill/otherwise donate or re-gifted to someone or sold.  If you can't get rid of it in that time, then it probably just needs to go in the trash, or otherwise it will just be one more thing undone which is holding you back. 

 

But good for you in getting two bags out! 

---

keriamon
Message #93 - 05/05/08 03:46 PM



  Okay, ladies.  So, my weekend.  I tied up the master bathroom a bit Friday night and decided that it looked much better already and I was all pumped for doing the REST of the house Saturday.  So I am up at 8am and working.  Aside from taking about 30 minutes to eat breakfast and feed the horse, I don't really look up until it's 11:30.  Holy carp, I've not gotten out of the master bath and bedroom!  At noon I ate lunch, then took about an hour and a half nap (because I was quite tired) and I got up and started again.  From 2 until 3 (or was it 3 until 4) I put up clothes.  Yes, it took me a SOLID hour to fold and hang up and put away all of our clothes.  And I still had two more loads in the wash and one more left dirty in the floor.  For just two people! 

 

Other than washing a sink of dishes at lunch, I never got out of the bedroom and bath Saturday.  And I wasn't doing this really deep clean or anything.  I only vacuumed around the angles in the bathroom (stupid design).  Didn't even get the toilet fixed (did read the directions; had to stop when it called for unbolting the entire tank from the toilet--that's a two-person job) or de-calcified.  This was JUST a fairly superficial cleaning, doing the laundry, and getting rid of some stuff from the closet and the bathroom.

 

Sunday I had a lot less steam.  Did three more sinks full of dishes, I think (and have about three more to go!) and picked up trash in the living room and off the bar.  Ended up hauling 11 bags of trash to the --and only three were from the previous week's kitchen trash.  Got some of the trash off the front porch.  Took a few things out to the garage that need storing out there.  Filled one entire black trash bag with my stuff and finished filling up one we already had going.  Got a box started of medieval stuff we are going to donate to one of our events next year (half-filled it!).  So, I made good progress, but it's mostly only noticeable in the bedroom and one bath (which are so pretty and peaceful!).  I really need another entire weekend to finish the rest of the house.

 

I couldn't believe I had an entire bag of clothes to give away.  My husband is a clothes-horse, and has about three times the amount of clothes and shoes that I have, so I always look like I don't have much.  But as I exchanged winter and summer clothes, I found this endless stream of pants and suits that not longer fit, flowing in from the end of clothes rack!  And I didn't think *I* had a bunch of little bottles under my sink, but there was a whole plastic box of them!  Christmas gifts from well-meaning family members.  I bet I cleaned out a dozen bottles of lotion and scented body spray, almost none of them opened.  Took them to work this morning and put them in the bathroom to share. 

---

abundanceandprosperity
Message #94 - 05/06/08 01:32 PM



Looks like we are all making progress.  Keriamon it sounds like you did a ton of really good work on bettering your space.

 

I took the comment made about feng shui applying to not only the house but to the entire property seriously this weekend.  I spent all day Saturday in the yard weeding, mowing, planting and removing debris.  I then noticed nasty evidence of critters in our shed.  The entire space is disgusting.  Guess what, the shed is in the relationship/love/marriage section of the bagua.  Guess where my current problems are?  So, we need to hire a professional or get suited up to take care of the problem ourselves.  Then I realized that the relationship section on each floor of the house is also the most cluttered/storage/neglected and it is where we keep the garbage/recycling cans.  Probably not the best situation.  So this week I need to rectify those areas. Hopefully the other issues will clear out at the same time. 

 

---

keriamon
Message #95 - 05/06/08 03:11 PM



I wonder if it's a vicious circle?  First, you get a bit of clutter in a section.  Then the corresponding aspect of your life gets a bit worse.  Then, because you feel a bit worse about that aspect--in your case, the relationship--you ADD more clutter to that section? 

 

I was in the garage Saturday morning fussing that my husband hadn't bothered to pick something up and move it 5 feet to garbage can, and that he had piled our tents up on the horse's feed can so that I had to unbury it to feed her.  And then, I thought, why should he care to throw something away or put something back?  Nothing else in the house is put away.  Nothing else is clean.  Why should he care now when we clearly haven't been caring before? 

 

I noticed last night that he sorted his dirty clothes and laid today's jeans out neatly.  He also washed some more dishes (I think one more sink full tonight will have them caught up!).  Cleanliness breeds cleanliness, I think.  Mind you, I still have to pick up behind him, just not as much when stuff is nice.

 

Still, looking around, for all my hard work Saturday and some on Sunday, only the bedroom and master bath are really nice.  Everything else still needs help.  I wish I had another entire weekend to devote to it; I think I could best the rest of the house.  But, unfortunately, we have to do a lot of outside work this weekend.  Still clearing trees and scrub to make a pasture.  But I might can manage to pick up some more trash outside and get the yard to looking nicer.

---

Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #96 - 05/06/08 03:46 PM

Slowly but surely things are getting done. We finally got someone in here to fix the stuff that is wrong( only took a week) and they are coming back after lunch to finish with the floor in the kitchen. They listened to hubby better then they listened to me. Grrr. I'm hoping that fixing that which is broken helps motivate me to actually get some more stuff done around the house. We have no decorations( except Star Wars stuff and that is not proper decor for the entire apartment) and only the one picture in the hallway. The good thing is that the only thing that is cluttered is DH's desk and he promised to work on that once he gets home tonight.

[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #97 - 05/06/08 03:53 PM



'Tis the season for yard sales.  Where I lived in college, that was like THE BEST PLACE EVER for yard sales and thrift stores.  People had such great junk!  So just take your time and putter around on the weekends looking for yard sales and see if you can't come up with stuff you like for cheap.  May I suggest older neighborhoods; new neighborhoods are full of young couples who haven't had time to accumulate interesting junk yet.  They tend to only have baby clothes and misc. tupperware pieces.  Give me an older neighborhood any time.  Old people have good stuff.  Bless the little old lady's heart, but someone's mother died and they cleaned out her house and my mother and I racked up.  Still have the ladder and the hot water bottles that we got at that yard sale.  My mother got a mirror--it's in her living room.  Come to think of it, I got a mirror several years back at a yard sale where an older lady had died.  Also got some medieval-style painted banners at another one in the same circumstance. 

 

Hmm... you think maybe I attract dead people's things? 

---

Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #98 - 05/06/08 04:06 PM

We are planning on hitting some garage sales later next month once we have settled in. We still have random expenses popping up for things that are needed. But I already have the best areas in my town picked out for garage sales. By my grandparents there are always good sales because you have the young couples getting rid of the baby stuff right next to the retirees getting rid of stuff down sizing and a few estate sales because it's a neighborhood that has a lot of older people. Around the corner from the apartment is the newer developments where people are always getting rid of barely used stuff because it's time for the latest and greatest. And if you get really lucky there is a block sale sometimes in the uber upscale area( houses going for 500,00 plus) and they get rid of all sorts of neat things. It's a bit more pricey then the other sales but you can still snag a good deal.

---

HW3
Message #99 - 05/06/08 04:39 PM



Well, I spent most of the weekend in garage. As a result, most of the empty boxes are ready to be moved into the attic. Washed 3 trash bags of clothes- can't do anything with it though. It's mostly winter sweatpants and high school team t-shirts which will be kept indefinitely. Contemplating buying a suit to store all these.

 

Of course, while I was in garage, kids and husband thought it was time to "take over the house" while the witch is out  So house got pretty cluttered up. It's like a hopeless task here: you clean one room knowing full well that mess is being generated in the next room as we speak.

 

Keriamon and other experts, could we summarize the basic helpful steps of Feng Shui here? Such as,

 

1. Red flowers on door steps

2. purple stuff in money corner

etc

 

---

keriamon
Message #100 - 05/06/08 05:07 PM

It's like a hopeless task here: you clean one room knowing full well that mess is being generated in the next room as we speak.

I'm not above bribes.  Make it a competition.  Let's say you're going back out to the garage.  Tell everyone else in the house that they get $X per FULL trash bag of stuff to give away.  Stuff too large to fit in a bag counts the same.  See if that doesn't motivate them to clean out some instead of making a further mess.  Don't forget to give yourself cash for what you do.  If that doesn't motivate anyone, take your cash from your work and call yourself in a pizza.  Then when everyone is salivating over the smell of it, tell them that next time they can clean up and earn their own pizza (and don't give them any!).  That should fix that problem.

 

It's mostly winter sweatpants and high school team t-shirts which will be kept indefinitely.

I have high school T-shirts, but I wear them.  I used to wear them out, but now that they are old and stained, they get worn for house chores.  When they get holey, they will go in the trash.  There's no "indefinitely" about them.  Return them to whomever they belong to and make them store them in their room; they will either use them or not, but that's not the thing to occupy family storage (the garage).  Have you tried storing your out-of-season clothing in suitcases?  If you can, store all of that stuff in suitcases under the bed and you will generally save more space (and not have to buy storage boxes). 

 

Keriamon and other experts, could we summarize the basic helpful steps of Feng Shui here? Such as,

I don't know enough specific cures to list them on here.  I typically go for just overall house harmony and leave it at that; I don't really decorate with the intention of generating extra.  Certainly nothing wrong with doing that, and I may do it myself one day, but until then, you'll have to look some stuff up in a book--although I bet you can find some stuff online for free. 

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MrsGords
Message #101 - 05/06/08 06:08 PM

Best way to de-clutter is to move. We did that last July and have been careful since not to re-clutter. We threw out literally two tons of junk, made many trips to Goodwill, and gave away even more via Freecycle. The only true clutter we have now is packed up in plastic tote boxes--DH's sons' toys, books, baby stuff, etc. It's all packed away in the boys' closets (they each have two closets) and in the attic. When their mom gets a bigger apartment or they get out on their own--whichever comes first--out of my house it all goes. I'm proud to say I live in a house with 16 closets, an attic, and a 2.5-car garage--and I have PLENTY of storage space to spare.

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keriamon
Message #102 - 05/06/08 06:14 PM



MrsGords, that's interesting that you say that.  Karen Kingston says "If you were going to have to pack to move tomorrow, and you have more than 2 bags of clutter to get rid of, you need to work on getting rid of it now!"  She then goes on to point out that why many people have difficulty moving is BECAUSE they have so much stuff to have to sort through all at once, and everything that we own has some sort of emotional connection to us--for good or ill--so it's very emotional just PACKING to move.  To say nothing of leaving your house, community, etc. 

 

She also said that twice in her life she just left it all behind and moved and made a completely fresh start.  Said it was the scariest thing she ever did (both times!), but that it was so very freeing.  Someone that she quoted in her book said that she and her family were just taking the pets and a few plants with them when they moved to the opposite coast of Ireland into their dream house. 

 

Can you imagine leaving EVERYTHING behind like that?  It does sound scary.  But, of course, a tornado may come through tomorrow and TAKE everything you own anyways, so why not leave it voluntarily?

[Virgil Showlion]

2007debtheaven
Message #103 - 05/06/08 06:39 PM

Best way to de-clutter is to move.

I've been here for 24 years and have no plans to move. So I always say "the best way to de-clutter is to repaint a room, closets included." It may not be as efficient as moving, but it's the next best thing if you're staying put, LOL.

One of my "tricks" is to repaint our kids' rooms when they change schools (ie primary to middle school, or middle school to high school). Since those are big milestones in a child's life, they are generally happy to get rid of "babyish" stuff. I usually pair the paint job with something cheap and cheerful for the room like a new rug, or new curtains or new sheets. They are happy and proud of their "new room" (at least for a while, lol).

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darkphoenix
Message #104 - 05/06/08 09:17 PM

My de-cluttering is going slow but that is no surprise. I am a major hoarder. Papers, trinkets, screws from something or other. Definitely fall under the "but I might need it some day" category. At least it is going well so far. Two bags of clothes to give away. Threw away a bunch of old makeup and toiletries I never used. Threw out a pile of old papers that I didn't need. Picked out which books I am going to donate to the library.

I do wish the condo I live in had a more square layout so I could apply the bagua or lo-sha. Quite honestly I don't know how to properly use it. The condo is close to an L-shape BUT the door is on the inside corner of the L and it isn't aligned with either wall, it's diagonal and kind of juts out. Quite frustrating!

I'll just have to keep doing what I can - decluttering!

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2007debtheaven
Message #105 - 05/06/08 09:46 PM

Darkphoenix

I have the same problem, my house is L-shaped and those houses are much harder to do. So if it's any comfort, I've come to the same conclusion you have, just keep decluttering! If I ever win the lottery one day (I buy a cheap ticket once or twice a month), I'd love to have my house and plot of land mapped out, but I'm certainly not holding my breath, lol. I read quite a bit on Feng Shui years ago, but never ever felt confident enough to plot it out myself.

You're doing great, congrats on the bags!

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knoelle
Message #106 - 05/07/08 12:43 AM



I made some good progress this last weekend:

 

Cleaned out all the old unnecessary stuff from the kitchen junk drawer

Donated the old magazines to an ESL teacher; recycled the ones she didn't want

Cleaned out all the little shampoo bottles and soaps from under the bathroom sink

Straightened up my desk and removed clutter from the top of it; it's pretty bare now

Began accumulating clothes to go to Goodwill, this will take a while because Seattle weather has not allowed me to get out any warm weather clothes yet and they're all packed away

Fixed a shirt that needed some sewing, since that was mentioned as being important for decluttering

Began shining the silver, a major job.

 

I'm surprised how much I got done, actually.

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #107 - 05/07/08 07:05 PM

I'm surprised how much I got done, actually.

Exactly.  It is amazing how quickly changes accumulate once we start.  I am now excited each night to get home and do at least one or two more tasks from my "feng shui list".  Last night I removed the knives from the holder on the wall and placed them in a drawer (knives in sight are a big no-no in feng shui) I have already noticed less stress when I am working in the kitchen (I suppose I used to worry about knocking one and having it slice me open!). 

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keriamon
Message #108 - 05/07/08 07:19 PM



I'm surprised at how LITTLE I got done.  I mean, when I went into my closet, the clothes to give away just kept magically appearing, like a fairy-tale purse with limitless gold in it.  I mean, I have a small amount of clothes--where were all these hiding???  So I feel like I didn't get much done because there was SO much to do that I never anticipated having to do, so I never moved out of the one area.

 

Okay, ladies with the odd-shaped houses.  Karen has a solution, of course.  Draw out your house.  Then add a dotted line in the missing section to square it up.  Then apply the bagua same as if it were a square house (or room or property--whatever).  Where you have a room that's not square, then the bagua will overflow into the next room, so take that account when you do the bagua for THAT room--it has not only a section for the bagua for itself, but it has the other room's bagua over it.  So treat that part like it has two sections. 

 

Where the bagua overflows a missing section of the house, then your outside corresponds with the missing section.  Be sure to treat your yard there well.  Where your property has a missing section, or you live in a condo or apartment where you cannot tend to the outside section, then you are just missing that section and you might want to work harder at incorporating it in other sections.  For example, if you are missing the relationship section of your bagua, instead of applying cures to the relationship section, put them all over the house, or, even better, REALLY apply them to each room's relationship section. 

 

www.fengshuipalace.com/bagua.php  I found this site the other day.  It's got a nice bagua and explanation of each section on it.  Something I did was I went into Paint and I drew a rough sketch of our house using the line and box tool.  Then I copied the bagua from this site and pasted it into Paint (not over the line drawing, though).  Then I stretched it to correspond to the size of our house.  Then I cut the house plan out of the background and pasted it over the bagua to see how the house as a whole lined up with it.  You can do this same thing drawing an outline of your property or each room.  Don't forget to rotate the bagua--Career/life path should always be on the same wall as the main entrance to the property, house or room (it's okay if it doesn't line up with the door, though--just so long as it's on the same wall-line). 

 

[Virgil Showlion]

darkphoenix
Message #109 - 05/07/08 07:44 PM

2007Debtheaven - If I ever win the lottery a house mapping sounds like the way to go.

Keriamon - Lol, I read about extending lines and stuff but the way my condo is in relation to the front door there are many possible ways to extend the lines and I don't know which is best. Regardless I end up with huge sections missing and huge sections outside. But still... how do you pick where to end the lines of the bagua or lo-sha? The photo below shows the front door issue I have.

[i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm47/sapientsaphead/Feng%20Shui/floorplan.jpg] i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm47/sapientsaphead/Feng%20Shui/floorplan.jpg 

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #110 - 05/07/08 07:49 PM



Yeah Keriamon! I used the same site to help me start charting my bagua.  One thing I found out from another site is that orienting the bagua based on the main entrance is for the main floor, your other floors do not necessarily have the same orientation, the orientation for those floors is based on the entrance to that floor (where your steps open into the room).

 

Please don't be discouraged that you have more decluttering to do than you thought,  just imagine how much change is in store for you!  Maybe start something small tonight, like your junk drawer or entry, that way you get maximum impact for little work. Or go a little further into the area leading away from your bedroom so that the peace and order slowly spread out from it a little more each day.  You can do it! (hmm I swear there used to be a cheerleading emoticon, this is the first time I have wanted to use it, just picture your own little cheerleader here)!

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2007debtheaven
Message #111 - 05/11/08 11:00 PM

Keriamon, thanks, but I just don't trust myself on that sort of thing, especially now. The basement is still flooding, it's been two months now, and I'm sort of losing it. That would require more concentration and energy than I could muster at this point.

This said, I will look at that site and try to compensate in the garden, which is relatively square.

Since there was nothing I could do about the flooding basement (besides make more phone calls, and try to find a dowser, no luck so far), this weekend I finished weeding the mixed borders, reinstalled the timers on the automatic drip watering system (we bring them inside for the winter), verified every inch of the drip system, and cleaned out the garden shed and the lean-to. (We don't have a garage, so the shed and lean-to and the storage room of THAT DARN BASEMENT tend to get pretty cluttered-up.) It's all done except for three bike tires and two inner tubes. DH has to fix oldest DS's bike tomorrow (it's a holiday here so we're off) so by tomorrow night the rest of that bike stuff will be either put back in the shed or thrown out. 

I also went back to the garden center for a third day in a row to buy more plants (blushing icon here, the icons don't work on my Mac).

I've been such a wreck with the flooding and the stuff all over the house, I'm actually pretty proud of myself for having done all I have in the garden. Let's hope it sends us the good vibes to find out the cause of the flooding, and the money to repair it.

Also, speaking of bikes: DH photographed our two youngest kids' bikes so I could put an ad up at work and sell them. Both younger kids have outgrown them. We could give DD's old bike to youngest DS but youngest DS is an avid cyclist like his dad so we are buying him a new bike for his 10th birthday next weekend. As a fourth child he inherits plenty of things from his older siblings, but DH wants him to have a new bike. (DH commutes by bike, about 40 km round trip, and he and youngest DS ride a lot together on weekends.)

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #112 - 05/12/08 12:31 AM

I looked at the bagua for our apartment and I decided to just work on decluttering and making it a generally pleasant place to be. I just can't take it seriously when our bathroom is in the love section. I think about it for a few seconds and I burst out laughing. But we did try it a little in the bedroom. DH and I have a picture that we created together a few years ago and it's theme is love. So that went on the wall in the love section and we shall see what that brings. I moved my change jar to the top of my dresser which was already against the wall in the finance area. We'll see what that brings. If I see somekind of improvement in either of those areas then I'll apply the teachings to the whole place. But since I got maintainence in here and the stuff fixed that was broken, I have seen an uptick in my life. DH found they were incorrectly doing his mileage at work and that he is supposed to get more money( it's not much to start but every penny helps). In today's grocery ad they had a special going where you can double up to three dollar coupons. I have a dollar coupon for my favorite pretzels. So far so good.

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2007debtheaven
Message #113 - 05/12/08 12:39 AM

Martivir's comments on maintenance reminded me:

Since we still haven't gotten to the bottom of the basement flooding, we've been looking at everything. I'm generally very much on top of things housewise but even so we're finding a bunch of small stuff and fixing it (unfortunately nothing that can account for the flooding): two partially-damaged downpipes, the sump pump (that I didn't even know existed!), the intercom, and (come Wednesday) three cheap elements that need replacing in our the furnace / boiler / tank system. So I'm also hoping all these minor repairs help our case, feng shui / karmically speaking.

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #114 - 05/14/08 05:19 PM



martivir, some small benefits are happening for you already, that is great.  The biggest change I have noticed is how I feel, much more calm and centered.  Somehow the act of placing things in a location with a specific intention has helped me quiet my negative thoughts and be more motivated to get things done.  It doesn't matter to me if the energy/superstitious part of it is true, it is helping me.

 

2007debtheaven, sorry the basement is still flooding, we also flooded in this last rain.  Unfortunately it is not our house so we can't make the big fixes that are needed.  I am planning to just minimize our damage by moving more things out of the basement.  One big money benefit I've seen in response to the decluttering is that I had already removed most things from the floor (put everything on shelves, tables, etc.) so things that would have been ruined three weeks ago are fine.

 

Can I ask a non-money question?  It seems like my posts are often ignored, am I coming across in an unattractive way?  I am completely open for constructive criticism.

 

[Virgil Showlion]

Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #115 - 05/14/08 06:02 PM

I know it seems like our posts are ignored sometimes but I know that I don't post if I don't have an answer for something. Just because someone doesn't respond doesn't mean we don't care. We might not know what to say, it might have inspired a lurker to do something and they just don't like posting. I have more then a few forums I post on and sometimes it seems like I am ignored when no one posts back but I keep an eye on the total views. Someone's seeing it even if no one responds.

And some more good news. While we did have a rather large fight the same day we put the romantic picture in the romance section of the bedroom, something has happened in that department. DH is speaking more about what is bugging him. He normally bottles it up( something he learned by watching his parents) and it turns out that work is really stressing him out. But since we are communicating better I can make things easier for him here. Making sure dinners ready when he gets home( he doesn't always get to take his lunch), getting the bills organized so all he has to do is sign the check( we pay our bills out of his account) and I have picked up the subtle sign that means he would like a shoulder rub( he's too stubborn to ask for one). I think I am going to pick up some red hand towels at Dollar Tree and stick them in the bathroom. Still waiting on the change in the career area. I may change out the picture since the Celtic design one seems a little dark. I want to convey peace, calm and maybe something that would help get him a raise.  Oh and I found three winning scratchy tickets in the bottom of a purse I haven't used a year along with a bottle return slip. I'm just glad the slip doesn't expire. It's five dollars more then I had this morning.

---

abundanceandprosperity
Message #116 - 05/14/08 07:27 PM

I know it seems like our posts are ignored sometimes but I know that I don't post if I don't have an answer for something.

You are probably right on this.  I have been working on communication lately and have heard in the past that I tend to come across as a know-it-all so I was afraid I am doing that on here and really want to change that aspect of myself.

As for the change in your relationship, I completely hear you!  I know I jazzed up that area hoping for some peace, love and happiness and was surprised to find my DH open up, exhibit some new emotionality and eventually some growth between us.  We don't always get what we expect but somehow putting the intent out there seems to start changes. 

Sounds like you need to change out that picture.  I have made a lot of changes around the house and found out that DH not only didn't understand some of the things I had done but doesn't like some of the changes.  We are now going to work on it together and the beautiful thing is that he is open to the idea of feng shui and it seems to be bringing us closer.  I will update more on that as we get going.

What are you going to do with the $5? 

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #117 - 05/14/08 07:45 PM

M e a n is a bad word? I think they need to work on their censored words software. But any how. I have big plans for that five bucks! I'm going grocery shopping tonight and I am thinking about getting DH a treat. We never get snack food and he has been craving nachos lately so I'll get the good Buffalo Wing cheese( it's super spicy) and make him some tonight. Maybe I'll even watch Star Wars with him( not fond of the movies but  the part in Episode Two when we get to see Hayden Christensen without his shirt on).

The good news is that DH doesn't care how I decorate. If it was up to him the entire place would be decked out in Star Wars goodies. But he has given me free reign on what I want to do. When we have a second bedroom I'll deck that out in all his Star Wars gear. He likes the picture that is there but it just doesn't seem to be doing it's job. I have some posters that I can hang there and see what happens. Just need to avoid the one with all the Sith lords on it. Just something about snuggling with DH and having Darth Vader staring at you.

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #118 - 05/14/08 07:52 PM

Just something about snuggling with DH and having Darth Vader staring at you.

LOL!  You crack me up!  Sounds like he is lucky in the love department already.  It has to help his career to have you taking care of him like this.

---

Salamander
Message #119 - 05/15/08 12:25 AM



I had to giggle at the Darth Vader decor. As I type, I'm in DH's "man cave." I have no idea what bagua of the house this is in, but I'm surrounded by a foosball table, pirate parapharnelia, and a sculpture of a Buddha seated in the lotus position who has the head of a dog!  It's wonderful sitting here, because it speaks so strongly of DH's good nature and good humor.

I was pretty proud of myself this week. Three garbage bags of clothes and household items to Goodwill and two bags of books to go to the used book store. I took two boxes of knicknacks to the animal shelter over the weekend for their spring garage sale. The animals need money for food, medicine, and shelter more than I need more dustcatchers! Gave away four full-sized rugs last week to friends. DH is allergic to indoor allergens, and they just trap them. I had them stored in the garage, but there's no point in keeping them.

In order to get over the sentimentality attached to things that people have given me, I'm asking myself: "Do I have something that is a better representation of this person or experience that I want to keep? Something that I like more, that deserves to be put in an uncluttered place of honor that I can look at every day?" Nine times out of ten, the answer is "yes."

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #120 - 05/15/08 02:01 AM

Ok I am a believer. I'm going to splurge and put nice red towels in the bathroom. And keep an eye out for good deals at garage sales for things for the rest of the apartment. Let's just say the new picture is really doing it's job. DH came home with my favorite flowers. He has not bought me flowers in years. He remembered that I am not a fan of cut flowers, so he brought me home a mini rose bush!

I am going to head to Barnes and Nobles sometime this week and get the book that Keriamon is always talking about. 

[Virgil Showlion]

abundanceandprosperity
Message #121 - 05/15/08 01:47 PM



So much good work ladies!  I spent last night rearranging our bedroom.  I have hated the layout in there since we moved in (3 yrs ago!) and thought there wasn't another option.  I found it, and guess what DH loves it too!  I also found so much junk (and things with negative associations) under the bed.  I am so happy now that I can move around in there and it is all clean.  Plus I am inspired to finally make my closet work for me (sure it is orderly and I have matching hangers but I am so sick of closet-full-of-clothes-nothing-to-wear-and-i'm-late-to-work-syndrome)!  Hopefully all of these changes in the bedroom (our marriage and child bagua- how fitting) will help with the BDing!  On a financial note, DM just offered to treat us on the overseas vacation for next year!  That is like a $6k gift!!!!!

Martivir is it a red rose bush?  Put it in the bathroom! 

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jilby03
Message #122 - 05/15/08 01:57 PM



Hi everyone! I love reading these boards but this is only the second time I have posted.

 

I have been inspired to clean my entire condo, and not only do I feel better (5 bags of junk), but the next day I was sent a $25 gift card for referring my window company to another neighbor! Maybe I should put a pot of red geraniums by the door!

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #123 - 05/15/08 02:23 PM

No it was a pink one( my favorite color). Even if it was red I would not put it in the bathroom because there is no window. It's by the patio door in the living room( which is in the romance section in there). But as much as I have been paying attention to where I put things I have a very busy day in front of me. MIL is coming over for dinner and while the apartment is tidy, it has to be cleaned. Her own house is not really that clean but she will nit pick ours till she turns blue in the face. Last time she was over she spent the entire time trying to tell us how to rearrange our living room. And how we needed a better couch because ours doesn't make sense. It's a perfectly good couch. It was a canceled order through DH's work so it was discounted for that plus we got DH's employee discount. But no she has to point out the one side is actually the same height as the back( it is part of a sectional) and she always points out that my chair doesn't match my couch. They are both complimentary shades of brown and comfy as heck. Isn't feng shui about being comfy in your life and making it better?

I should get a second copy of Karen Kingston's book and give it to her. If anything it will keep her busy enough to leave me alone.

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Susan in Texas
Message #124 - 05/17/08 04:18 AM



Keriamon,

I e-mailed one of your feng shui quotes to a friend who consistently struggles with holding on to the past by holding onto stuff (and her future would be lovely if she could bear to face it).  Two weeks and nothing.  I figured I had said enough so I kept quiet.  She called me yesterday to tell me how deeply it had spoken to her.  The conversation ended with me promising to hunt up an old e-mail about what to keep for tax purposes and what can be shredded.

Off to look up that e-mail....I thought you would like to know that someone found help without even coming to this board!

---

abundanceandprosperity
Message #125 - 05/20/08 02:47 PM



Susan that is awesome!

 

Martivir, I'd be tempted to tell MIL that if it bothers her so much she can take you shopping for a new sectional, chair, cleaning person!  Otherwise it is none of her business.  I am sorry you have to deal with that.

 

On my feng shui front, change is taking place, slowly but surely.  Rediscovered the nice office chair that had been gathering dust in our attic and brought it into my work (way better than my old work-supplied chair) so that is improving my life.  DH and I are slowly working together on the house and it is definitely bringing us closer.  I made a list of changes to make in each room of the house and that has really helped us make little changes everyday.  The big change is how much we have realized that we are ready for a larger life change and that our house issues were a reflection of the fact that we don't want to be here anymore.  That will be a larger project but we are working on it.

How's the decluttering going for everyone else?

---

Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #126 - 05/20/08 03:11 PM

Ha! I am never going shopping with that woman ever again. Went once and nearly came home bald. With her it's more we are just two completely different people. She is big on gift giving holidays, I could care less. She thinks she has great taste in furniture, I think she's partly color blind and care more about bragging rights( this couch was a great deal for 700 plus the chair!) She does have some passive aggressive tendencies with me because she's still getting over the fact that she's no longer the number one female in DH's life. It's getting slowly better with time. When she came over she didn't complain too much about the couch( other then to say that DH should have followed family tradition and gotten the same one as her and BIL( though BIL got it first). DH said he was starting a new tradition of paying cash for everything and this couch was what we could afford. I spent the rest of the evening smelling iced tea because I was trying not to laugh and got it in my sinuses. MIL is known for her number and balances of her credit cards. But she buckled down, got a job and is actively trying to pay them down now. I'm proud of her even if she does seem to live to drive me nuts. But over all the evening went well.

DH has asked me to organize and clean up the closet sometime this week. It's turned into a catchall for all the junk that currently has no real home. I'm not sure how I am going to do it yet because it's mostly his clothes in all the totes and his clothes on all the hangers. It's a walk in closet and I have half of the lower rod( we have pipes on one side of the closet because of how the apartment was set up, the hot water tank is on the opposite side of the place from the kitchen and bathroom) and he has the entire higher rod and half of the lower one as well. Still trying to convince him he can get rid of pants he hasn't worn in four years and over 50 pounds ago. They make him look like MC Hammer.

[Virgil Showlion]

mintchip
Message #127 - 05/20/08 03:36 PM

Still trying to convince him he can get rid of pants he hasn't worn in four years and over 50 pounds ago.

I haven't posted on this thread but I've been keeping up with it and doing my own decluttering at home.  This weekend I told DH that I was going to get rid of his most favorite FAVORITE jeans - that he hasn't worn in years because they have a huge hole near the very upper thigh area and are two sizes too small.  He whined a little bit but gave in when I asked him if he was really ever going to wear them again.  Same with a ratty pair of shorts.  They went out with Sunday's garbage. 

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #128 - 05/20/08 03:37 PM



Hmm since when is d.u.s.t a bad word?  I cannot even imagine how it could be something worthy of censorship! 

Sounds like you made it work with MIL.  As for DH's closet, yeah it sounds like he needs to do the decluttering since it is his stuff.  With my DH I am just honest with him, those pants look bad on you, he is more than happy to then let me donate them.  If you decide to go ahead and declutter for him try organizing the closet and putting back only the things you know he uses and then make a pile of the stuff to donate.  Once my DH sees the junk he has been holding onto in a pile ready to be donated he is fine with it going I think it is sometimes just the work/effort of sorting through things and getting rid of them that he dislikes.  Good luck!

 

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #129 - 05/21/08 01:20 PM

Mintchip, I must have posted at the same time as you.  Good job on getting him to let go of the jeans!  I don't know if you would agree with this but it seems that letting go of the first thing is often the hardest and then the decluttering speeds up.  I keep bumping this post up because I need the daily reminder to keep going in my efforts to declutter and apply feng shui (to my home, office, closet, life, use of time, friendships, etc.).

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keriamon
Message #130 - 05/21/08 04:05 PM



Bedroom is tidy and has stayed tidy (except I have to put up some clean clothes tonight).  Kitchen is tidy and is staying tidy.  Living room has improved, but still needs work this weekend.  I'm not sure what to do about the den, since that's mostly man room already.  I think I will try and lump the stuff into piles and leave it at that.  At the very least I have to get some junk out of my way so I can get to the filing cabinet so I can file bills. 

 

I read on one website that the kitchen stove is the equivalent of the hearth, and as the hearth is the heart of the home, it's important to keep the stove clean.  For those of you familiar with FlyLady, you know that she puts great emphasis on keeping the sink clean.  I've never been one to keep a spotless sink, but I have found that keeping the stove clean is pretty easy.  So I have taken FlyLady's principal and applied it to my stove.  So for those of you who can't seem to get started, keep a clean stove.  See what that leads to.  FlyLady's sink leads to lots of other things getting clean; I think the same will work for the stove (with the added bonus of being good feng shui).

 

I found out that FlyLady's 27-fling boogie is based on feng shui, as it is a multiple of nine--an auspicious number.  So, if you want a small goal to meet, either throw away, send to charity or put away (where it belongs) 27 things at a time.  That's good feng shui and if you can do 27 things a day, you'll be surprised at how much better things are looking after a week.

 

I suppose things are going better for us.  I was able to make a $650 payment on the truck.  It took me like two months to come up with $100.  So I don't have found money yet, but at least we've quit bleeding it everywhere, which is all I was asking for.  We also went out weekend-before-last and nearly killed ourselves, but we got the horse onto her pasture.  That was the project that seemed to have no ending because every time we went to do something, it wouldn't work and we had to do it another, more difficult way.  But that weekend many more things went right for us.  I even managed to sink a post where I thought I could never manage to sink a post.  Then there was the solar charger.  It didn't seem to want to charge up and work.  But we left it alone for a few days, and, apparently after giving it the spark of life by touching it (and shocking myself), it started to work and has been working ever since (knock on wood).

 

So, overall, life seems to be getting better/easier for us.  Maybe we can look forward to even more when I get the living room cleaned up, lol. 

---

Susan in Texas
Message #131 - 05/21/08 04:32 PM

One option for those of you who have piles of sentimental t-shirts or other fabric things:  make a quilt from them.  I have a pile of old college/theater t-shirts with which I plan to do this.  Now if I can just find the other half of my sewing machine!

[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #133 - 05/21/08 04:51 PM

MIL is known for her number and balances of her credit cards. But she buckled down, got a job and is actively trying to pay them down now. I'm proud of her even if she does seem to live to drive me nuts. But over all the evening went well.

You know what's curious?  Feng shui spreads.  Some people have found that when they clean up their own homes, family members spontaneously start to do the same thing.  Also, there are other sorts of clutter besides the physical kind.  You can have emotional clutter, financial clutter, spiritual clutter.  I'm having a spiritual problem right now.  I'm all religiously confused.  So I'm reading religious books, studying, and working through that.  That's a type of cleaning up too, you see.  Cleaning up your finances and getting them in order is a type of cleaning up.  Seeing a therapist and working through some issues is also cleaning up. 

 

One woman wrote Karen Kingston to say that she was very tidy, but her husband was very messy, especially in one part of their house.  She thought about it for a while and realized that she was mentally very disorganized, but her husband wasn't.  So she did some self-help stuff and got herself straightened out and her husband spontaneously cleaned up his messy spot! 

 

The idea is that everything in your life is a reflection of your life, and also is attracted to you.  So, for instance, if you are a very scattered, disorganized person, you are very likely to have a messy house.  The mess on the outside is reflecting the mess on the inside.  But, at the same time, you make the mess, you get the clutter, because that just feels right to you at the time.  When you are disorganized on the inside disorder on the outside feels and looks natural.  It's like you do all the things necessary to build a mirror to reflect your own image, if that makes sense. 

 

But, in some cases, your mirror is someone else in your life.  You may have this pristine, neat home and you may have the perfect life on the outside, but let's say you have no self-confidence.  Despite how well things are going, you never feel secure or good about yourself.  Now, guess what kind of man that woman dates?  She's going to date someone who reflects how she feels about herself--someone who is lazy, who can't accomplish anything, who is a slob, who is never helpful or good enough in general.  That woman may look around and say her house looks great and has great feng shui, but she totally ignores the big mooch sitting in the corner (probably in her relationship corner).  And she's not going to get rid of him until she clears up the non-physical clutter in her life that attracted him in the first place.

 

So I can't help but wonder, Marti, if your own financial cleaning and house cleaning aren't starting to rub off on MIL?  Seeing how family members are a package deal, I can't say that you have something going on in your life that has attracted her into it, but that's not to say that you can't shape her anyways.    At the VERY LEAST, even if you don't change her when you change yourself, you should find that you tolerate her better because you can ignore her more easily, lol.  So you will win in the end, one way or another. 

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #134 - 05/21/08 06:45 PM

I sure do hope that things spread. Yes DH and I have cleaned up alot of financial clutter in recent months and I do think that it spurred MIL to try and do the same. She's competative and hyper insecure( my theory about her obsession with my weight is that she is trying to lose some of her own and she is trying to make me feel bad about mine so that she's not the only one that feels bad about how they look) so I'm hoping that some of the changes DH and I are making will inspire her to make some of her own. I'm not going to be drawn into her competitions though. I've had enough of those in the two years that I lived with her.

And things are getting better financially. Turns out the picture that I thought I was going to have to replace with something more upbeat was actually crooked. I'm short and tried to hang it higher then eye level. It was DH's eye level though and he fixed it for me. Since then the CFO took DH out to lunch just because. Not normal practice for this guy. He likes to pinch pennies till they scream and he took DH to a place that was on the more expensive side. Fingers and toes are crossed because DH also has his review coming up.

Now if I can just find the bagua that helps DH's snoring I'll be in heaven. Our couch is comfy enough to watch TV on but stinks to sleep on. 

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sknwzard
Message #135 - 05/24/08 11:59 AM

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azure sky
Message #136 - 05/24/08 02:21 PM

I haven't updated in a while, so it is good to chime in because we've been doing some major decluttering.

We have a storage shed that was actually quite a mess.  We went to Costco, bought a bunch of their transparent plastic bins with the lids that fit together and went through our entire unit.  Since we moved into the dorm, we had to put quite a few things--including all the nice appliances that were gifts at our wedding--into storage.  THey are now neatly stacked with books in cardboard boxes and other items in these clear containers so we can see exactly what is in there.  This is especially good because we are moving in a month to a bigger dorm room .  Who knew I'd be so excited to live in 420 sq. ft?  We may actually be able to reclaim some items that are currently in storage in a bit...yeah!  Sorting through the stuff we definitely found things that don't belong in storage or should just be given away.  We stopped by Goodwill afterward with all the old coats, luggage, etc., that we will never use again.

The other major change I've made has been detailed on another thread, the underwear drawer.  Suffice to say, my ratty old things are now replaced with a few nice matching sets.  I don't know if DH can tell, but I feel much better going into a bedroom knowing there is a nice lingerie drawer.  Unfortunately, we do have a lot of junk under the bed (mostly presents that I am saving to give to other people, but also winter shoes and luggage), but in the size space we live in it will have to stay.  Our bedroom is *tiny*.  We do have a plant in the romance corner, and I read that is bad.  Once we move we'll have a window in our shower, and I will put that plant there--it is a Norfolk Island Pine that has survived after really struggling.  DH loves Norfolk Island Pines because they remind him of his semester abroad in New Zealand.

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #137 - 05/27/08 03:27 PM



azure, where did you read that a plant in the relationship corner is bad?  I have plants in all of my relationship corners! 

Sounds like everyone is making great progress.

I have good news to report.  DH and I finally went through the house to address our individual issues and work out solutions together.  Not only does the house look great now but we are both more calm and happy. 

Keriamon, I took the stove advice to heart and discovered that the top easily comes off ours.  I found so many crumbs, grease, and gunk under the burners that it grossed me out!  I cleaned it completely and then put down tinfoil so I can easily clean it next time.  Hopefully good things are on the way!

 

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keriamon
Message #138 - 05/27/08 03:50 PM



Plants are generally good in any part of the house, with a few exceptions.

 

1) You should avoid cactus.  It's just too defensive.  Although some cactuses are not prickly, so they're not a problem (Christmas cacti are not prickly, I seem to recall). 

 

2) You should avoid too many other plants that are thorny or prickly.  Some pines might fall into this category.  However, if there is only one pine tree, and especially if you have other, non-pointed leaf plants in the area, then it's not really a problem.  You mainly want to avoid having too many spiky-looking plants.  Balance spiky plants with those that have rounder leaves. 

 

3) Plants should be healthy.  Sick, struggling, wilted plants cause problems.  Lush, thick, bountiful plants are helpful.

 

4) Don't put too much of any one thing in your relationship corner, or you might wall a relationship out.  For instance, if you love books, don't put them in your relationship corner or you may find the only relationship you have is that with your books.  The same is true for people who like to collect plants or animals. 

 

5) Avoid ivy and other plants that hang down.  They're a big no-no if you are depressed.  If you are not depressed, then they are tolerable in very small doses, but try to balance them with something that goes up (plant or decor).  Train them to climb up instead of down, if you can.  Ever pay attention to the name of trees that have sagging branches?  Weeping willow, weeping cherry, etc.  Even in the West we clearly, albeit subconsciously, link downward hanging things with sadness.  Not saying run out and cut those trees down, but be careful to balance them with other sorts of trees and plants. 

[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #139 - 05/27/08 03:54 PM

Now if I can just find the bagua that helps DH's snoring I'll be in heaven.

You might try the health section (I believe that's the one in the very center).  Snoring is pretty natural, but sometimes it results from (or is made worse by) a health problem. 

 

If his snoring is really bad, a sleep clinic may be what you need to find.  Very loud snoring can be a sign that the sleeper is not taking in enough oxygen.  Which can be remedied by a machine (CPAC, I think is the proper abbreviation).  You'd get less snoring and he'd get more restful sleep. 

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #140 - 05/27/08 04:17 PM

Yeah, DH already has a CPAP machine and it helps loads. But it's not always the most comfortable thing for him to wear so I don't ask that he wears it all the time. Since we have moved into the apartment his snoring has gotten better. I think part of it was his parents super dusty, wicked old furnace( they haven't replaced it yet do to the need for a permit for asbestos removal) and yeah he's a big guy. So with the less dust here( much easier to keep things dust free here then there) and the fact that he is losing weight is helping his snoring alot. It makes it alot easier to deal with his bad nights when they only happen once every week or so instead of every single night that he doesn't wear his mask.

DH is gone this week for business so I have free reign of the house. We rearraged the living room this weekend and it makes the whole room more inviting and look much bigger. Can't put anything in the romance corner because the furnace is there but DH's work stuff now falls into the career section of the room. DH did give me "homework" but seeing as how I have three days to complete clean the kitchen, fold winter blankets and find them a home, and go shopping for a clock for the living room, I don't think I'll have a problem.

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keriamon
Message #141 - 05/27/08 04:27 PM

 Can't put anything in the romance corner because the furnace is there

LOL, keep the furnace in good working order and get hot love, I'd think! 

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #142 - 05/27/08 04:49 PM

It seems to be in perfect working order so far. Just need to remember to turn it on every couple of weeks so that when winter comes we don't set off all the smoke detectors from the dust burning off inside( no filter). Nothing like waking up a 2am to the stench of burning dust and the panic reaction run like hades.

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PauletteG
Message #143 - 05/27/08 05:39 PM

I'm going to read this from the beginning later, but for now: this weekend I performed a deep clean of the bathroom, and we vacuumed most of the living room. So far I've been alerted I might be getting a bonus, my application for a FT job is heading toward a phone screen, and I just had an emergency phone call asking if I can jump into a freshly vacant contract position. Alas, I start a contract position elsewhere today...

I also have my passport and birth certificate forms filled out with guarantors and references this weekend. Now, to mail and start some new phases.

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keriamon
Message #144 - 05/27/08 05:42 PM

Great, Paulette!  Keep cleaning like mad when you are at home to see if a permanent job offer (and money) doesn't land in your lap.

[Virgil Showlion]

_Violetta_
Message #145 - 05/27/08 07:59 PM

I am interested in the Crown of Star series. I am always looking for a goodbook

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teh mom
Message #146 - 05/28/08 12:21 AM



We've (family of 5), been decluttering now since I got out of the hospital. I call it "nesting" (not). LOL

 

When I can't sleep, I think of ways, and things, to declutter. Working on our storage room right now. Got about 7 walmart bags to go to donations (kitchen stuff, not used in years).

 

So on the weekend when I'm having the family move/bag up/throw away, the kids ask me if I slept that week.

 

DH just bought some new pants, and we got a garbage bag full of dress clothes to go to donations. Closet looks way much bigger.

 

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knoelle
Message #147 - 05/28/08 12:24 AM

I hit a stall in my cleaning/organizing...I got pink eye, of all things.  It took me a while to recognize it, haven't had it since I was a kid.  It was no joke!  But, as a result, I have decluttered further by throwing out all of my eye makeup.

Anyway, I came back here to try to figure out what direction I should go next.  If I fall down on cleaning anything regularly, it is my stove.  Does anyone have any tips for cleaning the grate parts that go over gas burners?  That's the hardest part for me.

Also, any tips from anyone on what to put in your money corner?  (Not sure if that's the right term, I'm writing this from memory of what I read about it when the thread first started).

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #148 - 05/28/08 12:30 AM

I have all my loose change there. But my dresser's there too so I didn't really move anything to that corner it was already there. Someone said something about a bowl of pennies. I'm looking for a little charm shaped like a cat( can't remember the exact name but it's a lucky money cat) to put there myself.

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #149 - 05/28/08 03:19 PM

I've read that you should place purple items in the prosperity corner.  I recently placed a book with a purple cover in that section and have good news to report.  We received a gift out of the blue last night that we don't need and can easily sell on ebay for around $2k!  I'm thrilled!

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Sunset Hiker
Message #150 - 05/29/08 05:39 PM



I enjoyed the beginning of Karen Kingston's book...but the end about bodily functions seemed seriously unnecessary and revolting. Not what I signed up for! 

Anyway, I feel like clutter is determined to chase me, no matter how thorough I am. I've been doing larger decluttering projects lately, like scanning and tossing documents, so things are moving along. Then I find out that my parents are moving, and need us to store a bunch of furniture/stuff so they can stage the house. Of course I'm glad to help them out, don't get me wrong, but it's another example of the universe saying "Oh, you think your house is going to be nice and empty? HA! *tosses junk down upon me*

[Virgil Showlion]

nasagreen
Message #151 - 05/29/08 05:56 PM

I'm in too, I moved recently and haven't had a chance to go through more boxes...but I am really filling up my garage for a huge garage sale that I will have when we finish unpacking!

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_Violetta_
Message #152 - 06/02/08 04:39 PM

Nasagreen, I am right there with you! We just moved two weeks ago, and becouse I procrastinated with packing we had to move a bunch of stuff I had planned on getting rid of since I didn't take the time to sort through it....lol

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #153 - 06/12/08 02:21 PM

I've been out on travel, no house activities of any sort have happened with me. Any updates from the feng shui ladies? 

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boos_mom
Message #154 - 06/12/08 10:39 PM



Well, I'm not a hard core feng shui person (don't even know where the prosperity corner is!), but we have set up Boo's new bedroom and moved a bunch of her toys and other 'stuff' from the family room into the new bedroom.  Feels so much better in the family room with less clutter and more open space.  Plus, the new bedroom is the neatest room in the house and we all like to play/hang out in there with Boo.  I'm relishing the moment!

Also, the lawn has been completely mowed and cleared!  That's a major accomplishment b/c I teased DH that we could rent the yard out to the military for jungle training exercises.  Of course, DH cheated and had someone do it, but heck they did it all for $40!  I think they used more than $40 in gas for the trimmers and mowers.  Good to have friends in different jobs!

Things are going slowly.  But, the best part is that I FEEL so much better!

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keriamon
Message #155 - 06/12/08 11:03 PM

but the end about bodily functions seemed seriously unnecessary and revolting. Not what I signed up for! 

Yeah, that last chapter is overly hippy and new age.  As someone who has bowel problems, and so has had to become something of an expert on them (bowels and problems), I know what she's advocating is actually not good for your bowels.  Most GI doctors are against "bowel cleansing" products. 

 

Anyways, I think she's got the other stuff down alright.  Cleansing my house for better function is spot on!   

 

Lush, thick plants are always good in the money corner.  They're green, just like American money, lol.  Or you might even grow some money plant.  It has these thin, oval pods for leaves and when you cut it and dry it, you can pull the dead, outer casing of the pods off (and collect the seeds--it's an annual, but it reseeds itself if you leave it alone) and there is a thin membrane inside that is opalescent.  I suppose people think it looks like a silver coin hanging from a tree--hence it's name.  I'd not be adverse to putting a thick arrangement of that in my money corner--surely with a name like "money plant" it has to bode well!  For those of you who like to keep change, put it in a pretty glass or crystal bowl and set it on a mirror (you can find small mirrors in hobby/craft stores).  Mirrors, in feng shui, double what they reflect.  Which is why you're not supposed to use them as a cure before you clutter-clear or you can just end up reflecting junk and doubling it!  But I would think a small mirror on a tidy table top with money on it would just reflect the money. 

 

If it makes everyone feel better, my house has gone back to being a disaster!  I wasn't able to finish cleaning it up after my inital push, and clutter definitely breeds!  Thankfully, the bedroom and kitchen are not as bad as they were before, so it won't take long to get them back up to shape, then move on to the living room and the den.  Hopefully my husband will go do a re-enactment Saturday and I can clean; I never clean much when he's there. 

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #156 - 06/12/08 11:12 PM

Not much to report here. The whole karma spreads thing seems to be working with the MIL because we had her over for dinner Friday and things went really well. She stayed away from the topics that make my blood boil( my weight, our finances) and while I still had to listen to her ramble on and on( who needs cable when her life is one big soap opera) it wasn't near as bad as when she first started coming over here. She's mellowed out alot and I think that having no kids living at home is good for her. BIL still acts like a mooch at times( she doesn't care if he uses her pantry as a grocery store, but she doesn't give him money) but she's started putting her foot down. Now that DH and I are out I think she feels more confident about telling him no since she can say that she doesn't do those things for DH and I. She's not going to let the kid starve but she no longer does his laundry for him and made him replace his own phone when he broke yet another one.

Things are very peaceful here in general. DH's work is still being a pain but he's being more zen like about it. He's also being more proactive about getting out of there. We're waiting on a resume he sent out that could actually double his current pay if he's lucky but he's willing to accept what they are saying is the minimum pay for someone with no experience. It's still just under 20k more then he makes now.

As for the house, well.... things are looking up. I didn't do much decluttering but the rearranging of the living room opened it up alot and the entire place just seems so much bigger. We have also made a rule of the dining room table stays cleared off. It forces us to put things away and the place stays just that much tidier. I have been keeping a tumbler of flowers on the coffee table and I have to say just seeing that makes me happier. The place doesn't look like a dorm room anymore and is more like an actual home rather then just the place we live.

[Virgil Showlion]

Diminutive Person
Message #157 - 06/12/08 11:34 PM



This thread caught my eye since my stepmom bought me a little Feng Shui centerpiece after I moved into my house. I looked up the show Fun Shui on HGTV and saw on the [www.hgtv.com/hgtv/shows_hshui/article/0,3172,HGTV_30336_5690668_05,00.html] health area:

• Colors in the yellow spectrum and all earth tones, browns and golds (the colors of the rocks and candles)
• Ceramics, pottery, clay, brick, sand, stucco, tile and earthenware (it's a pottery like dish with rocks in it)
• Items that are square, cubes or rectangular (I guess the candles count for that)

• Arrangements in groupings of five (5 candles)

 

Then I read more, and when I looked at Fame and Reputation, I had to laugh. I painted our bedroom with one hot pink accent wall, right in the spot it tells you to paint one:

• Colors in the red and pink spectrum (pink wall!)
• Candles, fireplaces, lamps and natural lighting (two lava lamps, and in the romantic section it says groups of two)
• Items that are conical, pyramid or triangular in shape, as well as stars, points and diamond shapes (my lava lamps are coney)
• Electrical equipment (does a tv count?)
• Photos or objects of people you admire or emulate (I have a photo of an OBJECT I WANT)

 

Just thought that was humorous. Now I'm sucked into it! I was a clutterer until I met SO. He's completely OCD, so the place stays spotless. But I've teased him since we met (rather, he's teased me) that I need to change around every room every couple months as my "Feng Shui." It makes me feel alot better every time I do it. I don't know why I do, no one in my family ever changed around any of their rooms, but I've been doing it since I learned how to walk. I love having a clean house though... and no excess clutter. I never knew how empowering it was until I just started throwing out junk. I try to help show my mom this, but she's the packrat that taught me my beginner hoarding ways.

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2007debtheaven
Message #158 - 06/13/08 10:56 PM

Since the basement issue is still unfinished, I've been letting the rest of the house go to pot for the past few months. So today I cleared up all the extra stuff that was hanging around in the kitchen (we had a big party a month ago, and extra supplies were still hanging around.) This weekend I will clear out the big kitchen cabinet.

Then I attacked our bedroom, dealt with the pile of DH's clothes, and cleared out my clothes closet. I did it six months ago, but too quickly. (I still gave away two shopping bags of clothes though). Today I threw out some things, and have two more bags of clothes to give away, plus a bag of shoes. My closet is small, and I'm not really into clothes, but I had so much stuff in there I couldn't find the things I was looking for. I was hanging on to a bunch of things out of sentimentality. Out most of them go. I'd rather have room for something to wear, or at least see what I've got. I still have one shelf left that I'll do tomorrow.

Still trying to get DH to clear out some of his stuff in the storage room of the basement. Until he does, we can't move my son's stuff in there and refloor his room. (The rest of DS1's stuff is in the LR / DR and has been for months, which so doesn't suit me.) Last week the cement was too damp, but we have a professional dehumidifier in there now so hopefully we should be OK in a few days, and I don't want DH's clutter to hold that up. I've been feeling so out of control with this, I kept feeling like since the flooding has caused such disorder, it's not worth clearing up X or Y, but today I finally fought that.

DD went through her clothes on her own for the first time. I gave two bags of her clothes to a colleague. I'll probably help DD clear out her desk before she starts HS in September.  

DS3's room needs going through. He's the youngest (10) so that takes AGES. I will probably do a cursory job soon because he has one year of primary school left and from experience I know that in a year he'll want to get rid of a ton of stuff before he goes into MS.

When this basement issue is finally resolved I will try to plot my house anyway, because the prosperity corner could definitely use some help.  

Congratulations to all of you who have been making changes and are seeing benefits! Hopefully the money will come, but even if it doesn't, it's always great to have less clutter.

Futureplanning I love reading your posts because you always sound so excited! lol

Also thank you all, because I think envy at your accomplishments is what finally prompted me back into action after this period of inertia, lol.

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2007debtheaven
Message #159 - 06/15/08 08:21 PM

I finished my closet and did the big kitchen cabinet yesterday. Finally got DH moving in the basement storage room. I won't say how because it wasn't pretty. He's been at it for nearly 24 hours now (literally). He hasn't finished but already there is enough room in that room for DS1's stuff, so they can paint DS1's floor (when it's dry enough) and we can put his room back together.

I ended up going through my boxes in the basement that I had been leaving for next fall. I got rid of six out of the 12 boxes. I hope the garbagemen take the extra stuff (I only put part of it out.)

It's funny how it works though: now that everything is on shelves, I think hmmm, do I really want THAT taking up precious shelf space? lol So I'm probably ready to get rid of some stuff I had decided to keep only last fall. But I need a serious break, it's torture to be in the basement in June. I will probably leave it to my next regularly scheduled basement declutter in the fall / winter.  

Also, DS1 came for dinner (he doesn't really live here anymore but he's going away for a six-month internship and giving up his sublet, which is why he really needs his room back). Since all his stuff is in the LR / DR now because of the flooding, he sorted through his clothes here too. Like Keriamon says, decluttering is contagious, lol.

ETA: DH didn't finish tonight, but the floor of the basement storage room is 80% less cluttered than it was 30 short hours ago. It hasn't looked like that since before DH moved in 11 years ago!!! He still has some more stuff left to deal with, but talk about progress! It's sad that it had to get so ugly before he finally did it. When he finally does it he's so happy too, I keep hoping that feeling will rub off for the next time, but frankly, it never does. Getting him to do any clearing out or decluttering is always a struggle (this episode was the worst in 15 years though). His mom was a war baby pack rat, he is a post-war pack rat. As we get older I generally get less attached to my stuff and DH generally gets more attached to his (and his parents', and all the other relatives' stuff and odd collections that his mom kept). That doesn't bode very well for our future.

DS1 said to me today, look at the state you're in. Just rent a storage unit and put all his carp into it, everybody's happy. DH keeps the carp, you don't have to see it. I told DS1, per month it's not that much for a storage unit, but it adds up. Per year? Per decade? And after 20 years? Or 30? Can you imagine spending 30K over 30 years just to store all that c.arp?!

At least I taught DS1 the perils of storage units, right?! lol

Keriamon, does the book talk about attitudes towards clutter changing as people age? I'm in my late 40s and DH is in his early 50s. Just curious.  

I have learned a lesson from this, next time I do my annual thing in the basement (generally two half days or one full day, in late fall / early winter ) DH is coming too, like it or not. One way or the other, I will never go through this again.

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Marti loves her lil monkey
Message #160 - 06/15/08 09:12 PM

Yesterday DH and I did a good deep clean of the apartment. We got rid of a big ole' yard garbage bag of, well garbage. I didn't think we had that much just sitting around the place. It wasn't filthy dirty or anything, infact it was rather tidy. Still have a massive pile of papers to take to the one church that is collecting them to turn in for the money( which works out great because we are still waiting for the recycling dumpster to come back) and the tote with the rest of the recycling has made it to my parents house to get put out at their curb. Rolled all the change that was on my dresser and we now have 100 dollars to put into the bank. I found a new home for one of my old purses, still looking for a new home for my old microscope( mission didn't accept it, never been used too got it a going out of business sale at some museum type store) and even went through a big box of stuff at my parents house today when I was over there doing laundry. Got rid of some stuff out of there too and found my coupon organizer. The one I lost three years ago.

I love the fact that I am seeing something come of this. It doesn't seem to be related all the time but things are actually changing just by decluttering, getting things fixed and moving a few things around. OK rolling the change doesn't mean we have more money per se but we now have more money in the bank instead of just moldering in a container on my dresser. Everything single one of the plants I planted in my parents backyard has come up. I have never had a year like this year where not a single seed failed to sprout. Even the tomatoes I started from seed are doing better then some of the ones my mom's seen for sale at the garden store. My spinach is growing faster then dandelions in the rain. And DH is currently waiting to hear back from a new job that will pay him 20k more then his current one. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with feng shui but I got a chance to get some beautiful pictures of a momma fox cleaning her baby yesterday behind my apartment( we back up into a wooded area but we are also right off the main drag in town) and got the daylights scared out of me by a hummingbird. It was a bold little guy and at one point it was less then a foot from my nose. Really wish I had my camera then.

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #161 - 06/16/08 01:13 PM



What great updates!  2007debtheaven, thank you!  I guess I am excited, and excitable.  Life is too short to not enjoy every second.  I completely hear you on the shelves becoming precious space and causing you to purge more.  That same mentality popped up once I bought matching wood hangers.  Suddenly my seasonal closet cleaning turned into a purging session as most things didn't warrant a nice, new wooden hanger.  LOL

Last night I experienced something new in my feng shui/wardrobe activities.  I am one of those girls with a closet full of nothing to wear, and a lot of it is new.  Well, I just returned from two weeks of trips (three completely different places) which means that I packed and repacked three times.  It was so nice to have only the clothes, toiletries, and books that I needed on hand. I came home and was disgusted by how much crap was in the way of all the things I actually use on a daily or weekly basis.  Even though I am generally tidy and organized, I now see my space in a new way entirely.  I see my medicine cabinet and closet as a big suitcase.  Since I can foresee most of the events I have coming in the next two months, I am going to "pack" for the next two months.  Whatever I don't need in that "suitcase" i.e., closet and medicine cabinet, will go into the attic or basement closet.  If I discover later that I need it, I can grab it but in the meantime I can see what I actually have and use easily.  I'll report on how it goes.  

 

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Diminutive Person
Message #162 - 06/16/08 07:07 PM



One of the best things I did after taking on this whole new cleaning frenzy was to put my entire linen closet in see through containers, except for towels and TP, and labeled them. They don't really NEED labels, but I found that many people still look through the containers and can't figure out which one is holding the soap or medicine. Since we store those two things plus all my hair ribbons, make up, lotions, shampoo, perfume, and all our get ready stuff in there, I'm sure it is hard to focus on any container and look for something. I just bought a bunch of $1 containers from Target and went to town. I also bought two plastic bins for us to put our morning things in, like razors, moisturizer, cotton swaps, etc. so we can just grab it, put it on the toilet to get ready, then stick it back. Keep the bathroom spotless except for toothbrush, toothpaste and a rinse cup on a glass shelf.

 

I did the same for the kitchen. We got glass front cabinets with glass shelves with glass containers holding our spices and other baking ingredients. The space feels larger and something about being able to see everything makes it easier to cook. When I get more cabinets to hold the food, I already decided to put dry foods in see through containers (with labels).

 

I also switched my desk at an angle in the office. It looks roomier and I like the view better. I already had a piggy bank on my desk, I guess I should put it behind me in the corner and see what comes of it

[Virgil Showlion]

keriamon
Message #163 - 06/16/08 09:25 PM

Keriamon, does the book talk about attitudes towards clutter changing as people age? I'm in my late 40s and DH is in his early 50s. Just curious.  

Yes, actually.  Karen mentions that the older people get, the more they tend to get set in their ways and the more they tend to hoard clutter.  She is very firm that you should not clear the clutter of old people without their permission because it can upset their lives so much they can't recover.  But it's like weight, isn't it?  They tell you it's easier to lose weight when you are young and better not to hit adulthood (or middle age) overweight because it gets harder and harder to get it off.  That's because your metabolism slows down.  Well, it's kind of like that with clutter too.  The older you get, the harder it is to get rid of it; the more you are wrapped up in it.  Until one day you die and it takes your kids several months to sort through all the stuff you've got hid all over the house.  And not only did you not take it with you, but most of it has little meaning to your kids.  Older people who clear house should ask their kids "Do you want such-and-such," and if not, get rid of it.  But sometimes you will be surprised at what strange thing your child has a fond attachment to.  No one may want the china that you think valuable, but they'll be fighting over pap-pap's old recliner that was last recovered in 1984, just because they remember so many times sitting in it with him.  Our views on stuff is all relative.  And your relatives aren't going to view it the same way as you do, lol. 

 

Karen also says that older people who do keep a tidy, cleared-out house, though, tend to have better lives.  They tend to be more energetic and get out and do stuff more often.  They also continue to learn.  That's because they don't have this great big load of symbolic stuff keeping them mired in the past and their old ways. 

 

Clutter-clearing is like exercise; you get better at it the more you do it.  And if you let it go for a while, it takes some while to get back into shape.  But it's good for you, even if you just start out doing a little bit in small blocks of time. 

 

At least I taught DS1 the perils of storage units, right?! lol

Funny, but Karen mentions these too.  She says while you can help some by getting it out of sight, not only are you wasting money to store stuff that you so obviously never use you've hidden away from yourself, but you are connected to everything you own.  The more stuff you own, the more connections you have and the more you can feel like you are pulled in many different directions by your stuff.  And even if it's in a storage unit, you worry about someone stealing it, or it flooding, or hubby will find a reason to dwell on some antique hammer buried so deep into the building that it'd take half a day's labor just to unbury it.  In short, he'd spend his mental energy thinking about stuff that's out of sight, but not yet out of mind.  As opposed to getting rid of it outright, which gets it out of mind for good too.   

 

Future, there's an economic theory of 80/20 that's applicable to clothing.  They say that we get 80% of our results from 20% of our effort.  Or as Karen says, we wear 20% of our wardrobe 80% of the time.  Something she suggests is, when you hang something up, hang it to the front of the closet rod.  She said after a month you will clearly notice that you shop for clothes to wear from the front part of the closet and that the stuff you don't wear gets pushed to the back.  Other than stuff that only gets occasional wearing on purpose--like formal clothing or swimsuits--you can get rid of the stuff that gets pushed to the back.

 

I did the same for the kitchen. We got glass front cabinets with glass shelves with glass containers holding our spices and other baking ingredients.

Karen actually suggests see-through cabinets (either glass or mesh fronts) to encourage you to keep your stuff arranged neatly and the junk cleared out! 

 

I don't know if I've mentioned this yet or not, but if you are having a hard time gettin

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keriamon
Message #164 - 06/16/08 09:27 PM



I don't know if I've mentioned this yet or not, but if you are having a hard time getting started, getting stuff up from low down gets the energy flowing better.  So picking stuff up out of the floor--even if you have to pile it on a table--will help the energy a bit.  It also works on multi-floor houses; pulling stuff up out of the basement helps--even if you have to put it in the garage or yard or a storage building for a while.  Also, you can clap out the corners to get energy moving again.  Basically you go to any inward-pointing corner of the room--including those made by large pieces of furniture--and you clap several times.  You can move your hands up as you clap (from knees to above your head), or down, or keep them still.  Clap loud or soft, fast or slow.  Whatever moves you.  But that's supposed to break up the chi energy that gets stuck in corners (like cobwebs) and just having that flowing around you can help motivate you to pick up.

 

Time for me to follow my own advice now.   

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2007debtheaven
Message #165 - 06/16/08 10:03 PM

Keriamon, thank you so much for your answer. I sort of figured that. One thing they always say about getting older is your "essential" traits become more and more predominant, so I guess that's no surprise. Except for the bagua part, to me feng shui is just plain common sense and "art de vivre". So at least I'm working on DH while he's still young enough to do something about it, lol.

When everything is precious, NOTHING is precious. There was a thread a few months ago about an Oprah show about a hoarder. When the hoarder found her deceased dad's wallet (which had disappeared years ago) she sobbed! She was told, with that much stuff, NOTHING is precious. That is how I feel about DH's stuff. Our 10YO son (I have three kids from my ex that DH has raised / is raising and we have one together) has said to me, Mommy, I don't want to have to go through all of Papa's stuff when you die, there's so much of it. For him to even realize this is in his future at age 10 is heartbreaking to me. So I laughed and told him don't worry, you won't have to! As you get older you'll find a few things here and there that you'll want to keep. So keep those things, and just chuck the rest, and your big brothers and sisters will help you. This said, it is FINALLY manageable, for the first time in 11 years.

I'm honestly torn between hoping I die first so I don't have to deal, or hoping I die after DH, so DS doesn't have to deal. There isn't that much in volume now, but it's all in "precious collections". Ugh.

Futureplanning, I'm easily excitable too, lol. But frankly your plan wouldn't work for me, I'd much rather have fewer clothes all in one place. I wear casual to work, so I don't need a fancy wardrobe. I have some stunning party things. But all my clothes are in the same closet. I just switch the stuff around for easier access. I acknowledge I will not be winning any "best dressed" awards any time soon. But it might be easier for you long-term to have more stuff in fewer places, especially since you're planning on kids, which will mean less time to move things around. Even if you decide to invest in your closet. Just a thought!

Future, there's an economic theory of 80/20 that's applicable to clothing.  They say that we get 80% of our results from 20% of our effort.  Or as Karen says, we wear 20% of our wardrobe 80% of the time.

It's the Pareto principle, Phis is really into it. It makes sense.

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keriamon
Message #166 - 06/16/08 10:32 PM

'm honestly torn between hoping I die first so I don't have to deal,

Karen calls that the delegating-responsibility idea and while she concedes it works, she also points out that you waste part of your life not enjoying life because of your stuff, and it's probably not good karma for your soul/spirit to such a burden on someone else. 

 

When my stepfather's aunt passed away, it took us a solid day (like 12 hours) to sort her stuff into things we wanted, stuff to toss, and stuff to give away.  That doesn't sound like a lot, but she lived in like 400sf apartment (or smaller).  And everything was so tidy and pristine.  And she never had trouble finding something you wanted.  So she can't have a lot of clutter, right?  Wrong.  All the drawers in her dresser were full of pictures and papers and all sorts of stuff that had to be looked at for value (emotional or financial).  Had a cedar chest so full I think she must have sat on it to get it to close.  That taught me that clutter can hide out of sight so well that you fool everybody.

 

  When everything is precious, NOTHING is precious.

Very true.  This is found in religious philosophy as well.  When there is no bad in the world, then how do you know evil?  If everything is white, then what does black look like?  Not only have Christian philosophers used this idea to explain evil in the world, but it's in the Tao Te Ching as well (and probably every other major world religion).  The Tao, of course, talks about balance.  If you have all of something, you can't know the opposite and, really, you can't even know what you have because there's nothing to compare it to.  So, as you have said, if you keep everything like it's precious, then you really don't know what precious is.  If a plastic sack is too precious to throw away, then how precious is your grandmother's quilt to you?  As you example, if you hoard like trash is precious, then you can't find the things that have real meaning for you.  You example is a good one of why we need to seek balance between keeping some things and letting others go.  The easier it is to find the stuff we love, the easier it is to love the stuff we have. 

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2007debtheaven
Message #167 - 06/16/08 10:37 PM

Karen calls that the delegating-responsibility idea and while she concedes it works, she also points out that you waste part of your life not enjoying life because of your stuff, and it's probably not good karma for your soul/spirit to such a burden on someone else. 

Keriamon. I agree! But the stuff I'm talking about is NOT MY STUFF!!! It's DH's.

My sis called me in tears a few months ago. I don't remember the Flylady term but she hasn't felt able to have anybody over in 20 years. Our house is a showcase comparatively, not for guests, but because it's MY need. With four kids and a job, I NEED order in my life, so I can have order in my brain.

Her kids (my nieces) declared that when she goes, they won't sort through it, they'll just rent a dumpster. She called me crying. I told her they are right, if it's precious to YOU, and it must be, because YOU chose to keep it, they didn't, and YOU can't be bothered to sort it out, why should they? Exactly the same way I feel about DH's "precious" stuff. If YOU can't be bothered to DEAL with it in YOUR lifetime, rather than just HOARD it, why should anybody else WANT or NEED to deal with it?!

*stepping off soapbox and going to bed*

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keriamon
Message #168 - 06/16/08 10:51 PM



Hey, if you ever figure out how to get your spouse to let some things go, let me know!  My husband will start fussing over me "committing a neatness" and "getting feng-shuy" on his stuff.  Never mind the man can't find anything of his own on his own.  I have pointed this out to him many times; he is never able to find stuff, but if I tidy up, I can tell him immediately where something is.  Funny, but even when I was messy, I was pretty good about knowing where everything was.  I honed my memory-placement skills on playing the match game with Old Maid cards as a child, LOL.  But my husband is definitely one of those people who does not know where he lost something.  He is constantly losing his keys and sometimes his wallet and watch.  Me, my purse and keys live in the same place on the coffee table every night and my watch and ring are in one of three places--by the tub, sink or on the nightstand--depending on what I do to need to take them off (bathe or go to bed).  I forget to put them on on occasion, but I don't lose them.   

[Virgil Showlion]

2007debtheaven
Message #169 - 06/16/08 10:59 PM

Don't hold your breath, lol. The most amazing thing about him getting everything off the floor is how much floor space is available, and how little he actually got rid of!

ETA: Lost keys?! That one's easy ... just look in DH's pockets! If not today's then yesterday's. Or in the washing machine.

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abundanceandprosperity
Message #170 - 06/17/08 01:14 PM

But it might be easier for you long-term to have more stuff in fewer places, especially since you're planning on kids, which will mean less time to move things around.

Thanks for all the input. I agree with the 80/20 principle and the idea of getting rid of things not in use.  I also wish I could keep all of my clothes in one place.  Unfortunately, I live in a 100-year old house with tiny closets and have to use armoires.  The largest hanging closets are in the basement and attic.  I also have an incredibly complicated and varied wardrobe.  I need professional clothes for work, a casual wardrobe, dressy clothes for dinner/vacations/events/weddings/etc, as well as clothes for running/yoga/dog walking/tennis/hiking/mountaineering/horseback riding/travel.  Plus I live in a four-season climate where I have to walk everyday (about an hour commute for work and to take the dog out) so that crazy wardrobe has to include items for everything from humid 100's to snowy 0's.  Then, we travel all of the time and need appropriate clothing.  So you can see why my closet is a source of stress for me.  My new idea of "packing" for a couple months and having only those items I foresee needing over the next two months in my bedroom closet will likely simplify my life.  The challenge will be to organize the items in storage so I can easily switch out the clothes for the next few months.  I get rid of clothes on a regular basis but I spend a lot on quality clothes that fit me well (I am an odd size)  so even if I am sick of something now, or it is not in current style, I'll keep it if the quality and fit are worth holding onto for a couple years.  The big challenge will be getting back down to my size whenever I finally have kids... which I would love to have happen soon.

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PauletteG
Message #171 - 06/19/08 07:13 PM



I've done a little bit of clearing, enough for me to notice by the # of times I empty the paper bag of recyclables, and enough to send clothes to Goodwill, rather than just chuck them into a recycling receptacle two blocks away.

 

The helpful people are abundant with my job search. My career sector is looking better, with requests for screens for FT work. Relationships, not so hot right now. Money is in limbo: I'd like to get to the point where my savings and investments are such where I don't notice upticks in gas and food and energy -- is that too much to ask?

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keriamon
Message #172 - 06/19/08 07:48 PM

Money is in limbo: I'd like to get to the point where my savings and investments are such where I don't notice upticks in gas and food and energy -- is that too much to ask?

Sounds like if your job prospects pan out, then the money aspect will largely straighten itself out. 

 

Futureplanning, you might want to check out the Chic & Slim book series by Anne Barone.  She swears up and down that every French woman she ever knew could dress for every season, occasion and need with just the clothes, shoes and jewelry that would fit in one armoire.  She has tips on what sort of clothes to buy that work in multiple seasons or situations.  For instance, in one of her books I'm reading, she was just talking about how a sleeveless dress is very versatile.  Wear it as-is in the summer, or with a short-sleeve shirt under it, then switch to a long-sleeve shirt or turtleneck under it for spring or fall, and in the cold of winter, wear a jacket or sweater over it and make it look like just a skirt.  She also talks about (this is in her book "Armoire, Boudoir, Cuisine and Savvy") finding a neutral color that you like and that looks great on you and then buying clothes in that color range.  You may also find a color that compliments that and buy some clothes in that range.  For instance, you may decide that gray is your best neutral color.  Besides buying a lot of gray (because grays almost always match-up with each other, even if the shade is not exactly the same), you could decide that your secondary color was a berry red and buy cranberry, wine and burgundy-colored clothes.  Now, your grays will match up if you want to be monochromatic (which she recommends a lot), or you can throw any berry red piece with any gray piece and they will match.  The point is to have that interchangeable wardrobe that so many people talk about.  You can get away with fewer clothes and so you can save money.  Black jeans, for instance, can be worn with a very dressy blouse, sweater or jacket and look fine for most offices or dinners out (depending on the jeans, it can be hard to tell black jeans from black pants), or you can wear it with a t-shirt on the weekend.  Those casual khaki pants a lot of places are selling now can flip from fairly casual to fairly dressy depending on your top and shoes. 

 

Note, there's not a lot of keeping up with fashion here.  You basic wardrobe stays put for as long as it will hold out, and you just cycle in a few trendy jackets or tops or shoes every season or two.  She suggests scarves as a good way to introduce a trendy color (provided it at least compliments your neutral color, if not your neutral and secondary color).  So, if orange was in, you might wear an orange scarf with a gray-on-gray sweater and pants.  You'd not want a lot of orange because 1) if berry looks good on you, orange certainly won't!, and 2) it certainly doesn't match the berry, so you don't want a lot of it in your wardrobe because it will instantly make all of your red stuff unwearable. 

 

There are color consultants that can tell you your best colors, or you can get a pretty good idea of your color scheme by going to a Mary Kay party.  Or just listen to your mother or friends.  My mother has always said that pink and yellow were my best colors (and, indeed, I am a spring).  I don't care for yellow, so I try and stick to pink.  For darker, winter clothes, I try to go more for the berry reds, because they tend to be a complimentary color to pink.  Orangey-reds are right out for me.  I have always thought that I looked good in a dark ivory (not white, though), so I may make my neutral color khaki and push it down into the beiges and dark ivories as well.  Although gray would probably be a better winter color.  I like gray, it looks good with pink, and it looks more wintery than khaki.

 

Anyways, I'm still working out what looks good on me, color and style-wise.  But that might help you weed out your closets some more.     

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pink.cshmere
Message #173 - 06/19/08 09:06 PM

I'm supposed to be organizing my desk (again) as I type, but lurking on the boards is way more interesting. Focus, Phoenix, focus!

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keriamon
Message #174 - 06/19/08 09:09 PM

Me too!!!  I'm dragging my feet about sorting papers and filing.  How boring.  Oh, man, I need stimulating simulated conversation!  Or at least an educational article to read.