Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 7, 2011 13:50:52 GMT -5
The last unschooling thread almost made my head explode!
Ditto. I'll probably just lurk on this thread, save for one comment: Unschooling can be a valuable tool if you consider how we learn once we become adults (i.e., we do not have teachers and parents forcing us to learn new things, yet I don't know many adults who have no interest in ever learning anything else new).
I'm all for teaching children how the real world works, and how things will be once they become adults, as early as possible. However, my major caveat to unschooling is that it must be mixed with structure of some sort. Whether that takes the form of "regular" school, structured homeschool, or random classes at the local university here and there, a child cannot simply be expected to learn everything that they need to know on their own - they don't know what they don't know, and only very exceptional children know how to seek out everything important that they don't know.
Hard-core unschoolers have done much damage to their position, I think, by insisting that children need "freedom." I would agree with that statement, with MAJOR qualifications. Yes, children should have some degree of control over the way they are educated, and public school has really done a terrible job for a lot of students. Certain types of learners never have and never will thrive in a typical PS environment, and that blows. We need to have alternative options for them that are tailored to how they learn best. But that being said, no child should be in complete control of his life or education until they have the tools to handle that responsibility.
I've known some awesomely smart five-year olds, but not one was mature enough to take control over her education. That doesn't mean she can't be unschooled, it doesn't mean she can't be homeschooled, it just means that her "unstructured" education needs a heavy hand from the parents until she gets certain basics in place and has the ability to start choosing for herself what and how she wants to learn.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 7, 2011 13:53:10 GMT -5
Who needs to ADJUST to their kid throwing hot wheels at them?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 7, 2011 13:57:22 GMT -5
I agree, but I'm also wondering how kids are expected to find things to do if all they are doing is watching SpongeBob, playing video games and playing monopoly. It seems like sometimes you have to encourage a new activity for them to even find out if it is something they are passionate about.
I would let my kid starve if they couldn't stop playing video games long enough to eat.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2011 13:57:23 GMT -5
Funny that none of the comments even mentioned dad beyond "the family needs time to adjust". I believe she mentioned Dad said that "this is all your doing." Sounds like dad thinks the kid is being a PITA too. I couldn't keep reading those links, it would make my head explode.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 7, 2011 13:57:58 GMT -5
Alternately, look for an old matress or old cushions just for jumping - assuming there's a really good reason why you don't want him jumping on your couchHow about it is my damn couch, I paid for it, I am the parent and if I tell the kid not to jump on the couch he shouldn't jump on my couch? Wow. .. I just channeled my parents!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2011 13:58:04 GMT -5
Who needs to ADJUST to their kid throwing hot wheels at them? She needs to work on her throwing arm so she can launch them back at him.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 7, 2011 13:59:18 GMT -5
Those women will be on the TLC freak-show line up before Christmas. If they aren't - they should be. I could watch those ninnies and feel good about myself all day.
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daisylu
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Post by daisylu on Jun 7, 2011 13:59:37 GMT -5
Alternately, look for an old matress or old cushions just for jumping - assuming there's a really good reason why you don't want him jumping on your couchHow about it is my damn couch, I paid for it, I am the parent and if I tell the kid not to jump on the couch he shouldn't jump on my couch?Wow. .. I just channeled my parents!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2011 14:00:06 GMT -5
Alternately, look for an old matress or old cushions just for jumping - assuming there's a really good reason why you don't want him jumping on your couchHow about it is my damn couch, I paid for it, I am the parent and if I tell the kid not to jump on the couch he shouldn't jump on my couch? Wow. .. I just channeled my parents! I had the same response. And then I'd chuck the kid outside to play.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 7, 2011 14:01:55 GMT -5
Would you want to stop reading or doing something else hugely meaningful to you when someone else decided it was time for you to scrub the toilet?This is a comment from the video game one. I think I might try this on my boss tomorrow and see how it goes. Should I update my resume beforehand?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2011 14:04:30 GMT -5
Would you want to stop reading or doing something else hugely meaningful to you when someone else decided it was time for you to scrub the toilet?This is a comment from the video game one. I think I might try this on my boss tomorrow and see how it goes. Should I update my resume beforehand? So when I want to keep playing here but have to be in court, I can tell the judge I'd rather not go, I'm having too much fun? Cool!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 7, 2011 14:04:32 GMT -5
We have a trampoline outside, which the kids use every day. And, occassionally, they still jump on the couch. I always ask them why they are jumping on the couch instead of the trampoline. The answer "Because we want to - it is fun." And my response "Well, stop it, or it won't be fun any longer."
We laid down the law from about 3 years old until around 5 years old - now "discipline" is sort of funny, but I almost always win without much hoopla. I tell my kids "If you do that, I'll give you stink eye." And then I make a funny face, and they make a funny face. ooohhh - there is some hard core punishment for you. But, they don't do whatever it was I asked them not to do (or do whatever I did ask them to do.) So, I'll take it!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 7, 2011 14:07:04 GMT -5
My ex-pediatrician told us not to say "no" to our oldest, but to divert his attention to something else or have the entire house set up in a way that there won't be anything to say "no" to.
After that one and a few other suggestions, she was no longer our pediatrician.
Lena
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 7, 2011 14:09:32 GMT -5
...:::"The world is going to be filled with no's when the kid gets older & the kid needs to learn how to take a no. I'm all for kids finding their own interests & hobbies, but they need limits, rules, & structure also.":::...
I wonder more and more about this as I see it disproved. We used to have an executive here who would throw tantrums, and pound his fist at meetings and yell. He GOT his way. People, for some stupid reason, would give in.
Now you can say that they were only giving in to shut him up, or that his methods were immature and unrefined. But it worked. He got his way. Even when his way was bad for business, he got his way.
Of course that works best when you are the only one. If I was in those meetings, I could have acted in a way that made him look gentle as a newborn kitten. What will happen when all these spoiled kids that always got their way get pitted against one another?
...:::"I would let my kid starve if they couldn't stop playing video games long enough to eat.":::...
If they haven't learned how long they can last without food, they may very well die. This is becoming far too common in Asian countries, where people actively starve to death playing video games.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 7, 2011 14:10:11 GMT -5
We say no to DD and then I remove her from whatever it is we don't want her doing. We don't want her messing with the dog water bowl so if she goes for it we tell her "no" and then either move her or move the bowl. Kid is smart she'll play with a toy and slowly edge her way towards the bowl while reaching behind her for it. She's been really pissed at us because we figured out her scheme.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 7, 2011 14:13:39 GMT -5
Try catching his hand and kissing it, nibble the fingers if he likes that sort of thing. I can read about a lot of, what I consider, stupid parenting advice, but this one just totally creeped me out. Lena
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 7, 2011 14:14:31 GMT -5
Well, I lied. I wouldn't let my kid starve. I would go in there and smash the video to pieces before that would happen. More likely, I would just say "no" to the kid.
Were they subordinates? I give in to executives all the time. You know why? They own my ass, and I like the paycheck.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2011 14:16:04 GMT -5
Try catching his hand and kissing it, nibble the fingers if he likes that sort of thing. I can read about a lot of, what I consider, stupid parenting advice, but this one just totally creeped me out. Lena Yeah, because if the kid gets caught shoplifting when he's a teen, the cops are gonna kiss his fingers when they put the cuffs on him. WTF is wrong with people?!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 7, 2011 14:16:52 GMT -5
the cops are gonna kiss his fingers when they put the cuffs on him. The cops won't, but Bubba might.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 7, 2011 14:18:45 GMT -5
...:::"Were they subordinates? I give in to executives all the time. You know why? They own my ass, and I like the paycheck.":::...
No, the people were equals -- same level as him. One or two may have even been superiors. Such is the problem with pacifying through lack of resistance. Once an aggressor realizes that aggression works, he/she will continue to use it.
I wonder how some of these kids would survive if the parents followed their own advice. So responsibilities are actually a choice? What if I simply choose to stop providing food for my family because I would rather play video games. I'll take care of my own food when I feel like it, but I don't want to cook for everyone else when they are capable of figuring out how to feed themselves.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 7, 2011 14:20:11 GMT -5
I will agree that the kid was just trying to get some attention.
I'm sorry, but 7 year old boys shouldn't spend all day every day alone with their mothers. A few days, sure, but that kid needs friends. That kid needs to have constant interaction with many different types of people. Making poor mom love him and snuggle him all day long - of course she is going to go crazy. Eventually that kid will learn to be a recluse, but until then, he will lash out just to get some attention.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 7, 2011 14:22:06 GMT -5
Making poor mom love him and snuggle him all day long - of course she is going to go crazyBut what kind of mother would she be if she exposed her child ot other children? After all, you raise hellions if you don't supervise them 24/7.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 7, 2011 14:22:34 GMT -5
That kid needs to have constant interaction with many different types of people. Totally agree, so he should cooped up in a room full of nothing but other 7 year olds and a mother figure for 8 hours everyday. Variety is the spice of life and all that.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 7, 2011 14:22:48 GMT -5
Those people make homeschoolers look normal.
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Colleenz
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Post by Colleenz on Jun 7, 2011 14:24:13 GMT -5
Yeah - This topic again!
I am all for self directed learning, but this unschooling is bunk. My kid can say "I like penguins". Self directed learning means facilitating his research (of course he would need to be able to read to do that), not popping Penguins of Madagascar into the DVD player.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2011 14:26:21 GMT -5
I will agree that the kid was just trying to get some attention. I'm sorry, but 7 year old boys shouldn't spend all day every day alone with their mothers. A few days, sure, but that kid needs friends. That kid needs to have constant interaction with many different types of people. Making poor mom love him and snuggle him all day long - of course she is going to go crazy. Eventually that kid will learn to be a recluse, but until then, he will lash out just to get some attention. I couldn't imagine not taking my kids to do things with other people, if my kids spend more than 1 day with me, they start asking if they can have a playdate/go see gramma/go to the park/go to the babysitters
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jun 7, 2011 14:32:08 GMT -5
I couldn't imagine not taking my kids to do things with other people, if my kids spend more than 1 day with me, they start asking if they can have a playdate/go see gramma/go to the park/go to the babysitters Yep, mine too. You would think they hate me or something
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 7, 2011 14:33:31 GMT -5
OK, I found a good YM one: familyrun.ning.com/forum/topics/consequences-1Long story short - 8 yr old is using mom's iPad & spends $250 on apps. Some of the better replies: - Maybe you should have let him download a game WITH permission. And not call them silly - it would be better for you to step back from thinking of an iPad as being so very personal. - Locking everything down doesn't help him understand one bit - and taking away his things, even less. In fact, if punishment has been the norm in your home, its reasonable for him to be unremorseful. He's used to thinking of that as the "cost" of getting what he wants. - I don't think it will help to put things in terms of "stealing" - its not like he took it from a store or a neighbor, he was using his mom's account. - Next time try the time out for yourself. - One of the effects of saying yes rarely is that kids will ask for more than they really want - because it can seem like asking a Lot gets them a little. It can take time to transition out of that, but it does help to say yes more. Actively look for ways to buy him things that are within the budget - be the first one to say "hey, there's an extra $20 to spend this week, do you want to get something?" so he can feel loved. And the best one: "From what you've written you're still locked into seeing how wrong he was to do what he did. " I becoming a better parent by the minute ;D
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2011 14:33:57 GMT -5
Mine tell me I'm the meanest mommy in the world. I take that as a compliment.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jun 7, 2011 14:38:02 GMT -5
mine too swamp.... And I wear it as a badge of honor too. Hey, I'll take a mean look and angsty look form my kids anyday, over them misbehaving with me or anyone else. One thing I have lowest tolerance for is rude behaviour for my kids.
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