Israel kills 12 Golan Heights border crowders

[henryclay]

"We won't let them get inside Israel again"

While angrily accusing the Syrian regime of orchestrating the second border clash in less than a month to deflect attention from its bloody crackdown on a popular uprising at home Israel fired on Palestinians protesters.

An Israeli spokesman said it was done before the gathering crowd had worked itself into a border crossing frenzy similar to what happened a month ago when hundreds of people broke through a border fence, entered the Golan and clashed with Israeli forces.

The Golan Heights contain critical observation points for both sides of Israel's border with Syria. Until the 6 day war in 1967 the heights were on the Syrian side of the border. This ground and East Jerusalem are the only remaining pieces territory that Israel took over in that 6 days of fighting which has not been returned to their attackers. They have been described as the bullet that would lead to Israel's suicide if they should be returned. It is among the few things that every Prime Minister since the heights changed hands has agreed should never happen.

Thousands of troops were mobilized in anticipation of possible unrest. "Unfortunately, extremist forces around us are trying today to breach our borders and threaten our communities and our citizens. We will not let them do that," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told his Cabinet.

"I have instructed our security forces to act with resolve, with maximum restraint but with resolve in order to safeguard our sovereignty, our borders, our communities and our citizens."

Despite the warnings, several hundred demonstrators passed by a Syrian police outpost early Sunday and marched to the barbed-wire lined trench the Israeli military dug along the border after last month's unrest. Protesters waved Palestinian flags and threw rocks and trash over the fence, though none appeared to have crossed the lines.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43284111/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa

[billisonboard]

Israeli forces are determined that there will be no border breaches this time, but that the Arabs will also not score a public relations victory by baiting the IDF into killing demonstrators. www.israeltoday.co.il/tabid/178/nid/22813/language/en-US/Default.aspx

Sounds like they failed to do so if they killed twelve who weren't even attempting to cross the border at the time they were shot.

[Deleted]

Israel did exactly what they said they would do today. They told them to stop.. they did not stop. They then fired warning shots.. they did not stop. Then they started shooting. You can't storm a border with no consequence. They wanted to be martyrs, now they are martyrs. Maybe the rest that are supposed to try to storm the borders today will think how bad they really want that martyr job.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 5, 2011 11:47:01 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Israel did exactly what they said they would do today. They told them to stop.. they did not stop. They then fired warning shots.. they did not stop. Then they started shooting. You can't storm a border with no consequence. They wanted to be martyrs, now they are martyrs. Maybe the rest that are supposed to try to storm the borders today will think how bad they really want that martyr job.

Where they crossing the border or standing at the border , fence screaming and cursing, but making no move to cross and break through.

Any information out there as to the real happening?

[ed1066]

Despite Israel's warnings, hundreds of demonstrators — a mix of Palestinians and their Syrian supporters — passed by Syrian and U.N. outposts early Sunday and marched to the barbed-wire lined trench the Israeli military dug along the border after last month's unrest

That quote says it all. The Syrian government and the UN did nothing to stop the protestors from violating the border, despite an agreement to close it. That the Israeli military had to do the job the Syrian government and the UN failed to do (as usual) is not surprising, nor is the reaction of the anti-Semitic left in America...

[billisonboard]

Jun 5, 2011 11:47:01 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Israel did exactly what they said they would do today. They told them to stop.. they did not stop. They then fired warning shots.. they did not stop. Then they started shooting. You can't storm a border with no consequence. They wanted to be martyrs, now they are martyrs. Maybe the rest that are supposed to try to storm the borders today will think how bad they really want that martyr job.

My apologies to krickett. I relied on the op containing the most relevant details.

[billisonboard]

Jun 5, 2011 12:18:35 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Despite Israel's warnings, hundreds of demonstrators — a mix of Palestinians and their Syrian supporters — passed by Syrian and U.N. outposts early Sunday and marched to the barbed-wire lined trench the Israeli military dug along the border after last month's unrest

That quote says it all. The Syrian government and the UN did nothing to stop the protestors from violating the border, despite an agreement to close it. That the Israeli military had to do the job the Syrian government and the UN failed to do (as usual) is not surprising, nor is the reaction of the anti-Semitic left in America...

ed, where exactly is the border in relationship to this barbed-wire lined trench?

[Deleted]

Excuse me, the OP clearly said they kept coming, cut holes in the fences, etc. Did you open the link? And that is from MSNBC, sure not to be pro-Israel in it's reporting..

[billisonboard]

Jun 5, 2011 12:28:29 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Excuse me, the OP clearly said they kept coming, cut holes in the fences, etc. Did you open the link? And that is from MSNBC, sure not to be pro-Israel in it's reporting..

Apology again. I modified my response.

[Deleted]

www.debka.com/article/20999/

[mmhmm]

"A Reuters correspondent at the scene saw at least 10 demonstrators carried away on stretchers by the crowd but no sign of any holes in the main border barrier.

"This is like a turkey shoot," said Fuad al-Sha'ar, an apple grower who lives in Majdal Shams.

Protesters did cut through strands of barbed wire that Israel placed in an area between the fence, which is located inside Israeli-occupied territory, and the Syria frontier designated by UN stone markers."

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0605/breaking6.html?via=mr

[ed1066]

The idea that Israel or the Jewish people will ever get a fair shake from the old Nazis and Islamic fascists at the UN (and their apologists in the American left) is absurd...

[Deleted]

Far better to just let them all in and have a full out slaughter, right?


I'd love to hear what some people think Israel should have done other than what they did. A skirmish at the border, or full war in the streets where thousands die.....hmm...

[henryclay]

Krickitt, there are posters here who couldn't dream up a comic book layout of what Israel is about. If asked to make a presentation on what the future would be like if Israel let belligerent border crosses in you'd be as apt to get an explanation of why a child is taught to tie it's shoes as to get anything serious about Israel.

Israel has let belligerent, and even some non-belligerent, border crossers in before. The only permanent thing they have ever gotten out of it was more dead Jews.

For the moment Israel has put its foot down on border corssers. I personally hope their resolve holds and the Palestinians, (and their backers, , , their backers first), get the message.

[txbo]

Jun 5, 2011 12:53:03 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Far better to just let them all in and have a full out slaughter, right?


I'd love to hear what some people think Israel should have done other than what they did. A skirmish at the border, or full war in the streets where thousands die.....hmm...

The same as we have done, arrest them and send them back

[txbo]

Netanyahu and Qaddafii are the same they just want to protect the country. Oh, wait the Libyan rebels have weapons and our help.

[deziloooooo]

What is desturbing here to me is that there is so little thought , concern, care is given to the deaths of these young people, who are being killed, possible because they are just "Muslim " youth , so possible in the grand scheme of things they don't really count by some of the more vociferouse posters here. In a way reminescent of how others 60/70 years felt about others who they felt were inferior peoples, Slaves, commisars, Gypsies, Homosexuals, and of course Jews, sub human, not deserving of being worried about if eliminated. I said reminisencent of, a possibility.

A 15 year old who is killed , and was doing nothing more then demonstrating his rage of what to him is injustices on his people, but not really being a danger to anyone beside POSSIBLY by his loud mouthed curses and shrill voiced complaints, to have to have his life ended , and the only remarks about his death are , along the lines ,

"It taught him not to screw with the Israeli's, served him right, that will teach them " ...

what can one say.

To be allowed to cut the fence, approach the ones guarding it..that is one thing, and from reading the articles, I did, and did the Debka one and a few more, I did not see that scenario being mentioned or played out. If it did then that is another story, but if not, then one has to ask, "deadly force used? Why"

Snipers used for those working on the fence? Against two possible armed belligerants, ok, but working on the fence...
Even to firing at the lower extremities of demonstrators with military issued semi automatic weapons, military rounds by the average run of the mill grunt, possible reservist called to temporary duty for this event, pin point accuracy expected by such a weapon, POSSIBLE by OUR young MARINES, superior marksmanship training over our normal RA troops, but even here, expecting a lot.

Military rounds hitting extremities , expecting just flesh wounds, not going to happen. What to use if live rounds needed besides anti mob dispersal items used , tear gas, rubber bullets?

Possible aimed by specified markesman, .22 caliber issued weapons, scoped , by a few designated people, discourage them might be the answer, might work, shows the seriousness, of what is happening, give some to consider their actions, we are talking about ending young lives of non belligerants, just obnoxiouse sounding , thought of toward them, by those guarding the border.

Use of such lower deadly weapons might impress on the demonstrators, the seriousness of what they are attempting, the possibility of the consequences?

Just my thoughts on the event.

[Deleted]

Absurd comparison. OUR invaders come to exploit us for crime money, jobs, welfare. Bad enough-- but not comparable to an invasion whose mission is to KILL you. OUR invaders want us alive, for obvious reasons. Theirs want them DEAD, for equally obvious reasons. The Koran and their leaders tell them to kill the Jews and all other infidels, push them in to the sea. NO comparison to what we are dealing with at all.

[Deleted]

Those dead young people DO deserve concern, from their PARENTS, and their LEADERS, and their IMAMS, who tell them to kill the Jews. Israel's job is not to protect the youth from other places that come to kill them, it is to protect their OWN youth.
Should I be concerned when Border Patrol or other cops shoot drug and human smugglers from Mexico? Well, I'm not.

[txbo]

Jun 5, 2011 13:56:09 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Absurd comparison. OUR invaders come to exploit us for crime money, jobs, welfare. Bad enough-- but not comparable to an invasion whose mission is to KILL you. OUR invaders want us alive, for obvious reasons. Theirs want them DEAD, for equally obvious reasons. The Koran and their leaders tell them to kill the Jews and all other infidels, push them in to the sea. NO comparison to what we are dealing with at all.

The only thing absurd and laughable is your response. They are protesters not armed insurgents.

[billisonboard]

Jun 5, 2011 13:49:27 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

...

A 15 year old who is killed , and was doing nothing more then demonstrating his rage of what to him is injustices on his people, but not really being a danger to anyone beside POSSIBLY by his loud mouthed curses and shrill voiced complaints, ....

dezi, Have to disagree with you on this one. In large parts of the world you have to grow up fast or you don't grow up. 15 is old enough to be well aware of the reality of what going to that fence potentially meant.

In a no-win situation, surprise, no one wins.

[Deleted]

Okay, txbo. Why don't you organize a large group to go invade Mexico, announce exactly when you will do it, and see how many remain standing after storming Mexico's borders.
If people want to protest, as they are all over the ME/Africa, they need to keep it in their own country. You do not go invade a country to protest it.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 5, 2011 13:56:09 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Absurd comparison. OUR invaders come to exploit us for crime money, jobs, welfare. Bad enough-- but not comparable to an invasion whose mission is to KILL you. OUR invaders want us alive, for obvious reasons. Theirs want them DEAD, for equally obvious reasons. The Koran and their leaders tell them to kill the Jews and all other infidels, push them in to the sea. NO comparison to what we are dealing with at all.

Your wrong, and their thoughts are one thing, to use deadly force shouuld be used not for ones opponents feelings and thoughts, but the doings, and here from all I can see, no doings to merit death.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 5, 2011 14:00:15 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Those dead young people DO deserve concern, from their PARENTS, and their LEADERS, and their IMAMS, who tell them to kill the Jews. Israel's job is not to protect the youth from other places that come to kill them, it is to protect their OWN youth.
Should I be concerned when Border Patrol or other cops shoot drug and human smugglers from Mexico? Well, I'm not.

What about those who are not drug smugglers and human smugglers , just illegals running away to see if they can escape into the night from the authorities who have come on to them.?

[ed1066]

Jun 5, 2011 14:00:15 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Those dead young people DO deserve concern, from their PARENTS, and their LEADERS, and their IMAMS, who tell them to kill the Jews. Israel's job is not to protect the youth from other places that come to kill them, it is to protect their OWN youth.
Should I be concerned when Border Patrol or other cops shoot drug and human smugglers from Mexico? Well, I'm not.

Krickitt!

If the Palestinians want to help their children, the first thing they need to do is love them more than they hate the Jews. The second thing they need to do is stop electing genocidal terrorists to represent them to the world...

[deziloooooo]

Jun 5, 2011 14:07:56 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 5, 2011 13:49:27 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

...

A 15 year old who is killed , and was doing nothing more then demonstrating his rage of what to him is injustices on his people, but not really being a danger to anyone beside POSSIBLY by his loud mouthed curses and shrill voiced complaints, ....

dezi, Have to disagree with you on this one. In large parts of the world you have to grow up fast or you don't grow up. 15 is old enough to be well aware of the reality of what going to that fence potentially meant.

In a no-win situation, surprise, no one wins.

They go to the fence , be as obnoxiouse as one can be, even throw some stones...death?

I think I have expressed my thoughts if they did break through, approached those guarding the fences, border, different story, could have a vest, a knife...and as one article pointed out , action was taken against two who were seen by Israeli snipers with weapons in the area, again correct action taken. You bring a wepon to the party, even if slung on ones shoulder, you are considered a enemy billigerant, correct action should and seemed was , taken.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 5, 2011 14:21:34 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Jun 5, 2011 14:07:56 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

dezi, Have to disagree with you on this one. In large parts of the world you have to grow up fast or you don't grow up. 15 is old enough to be well aware of the reality of what going to that fence potentially meant.

In a no-win situation, surprise, no one wins.

They go to the fence , be as obnoxiouse as one can be, even throw some stones...death?

I think I have expressed my thoughts if they did break through, approached those guarding the fences, border, different story, could have a vest, a knife...and as one article pointed out , action was taken against two who were seen by Israeli snipers with weapons in the area, again correct action taken. You bring a wepon to the party, even if slung on ones shoulder, you are considered a enemy billigerant, correct action should and seemed was , taken.

I also agree with you, in parts of the world a fifteen year old is no longer a youth, this I know , experienced.
When they become belligerants, armed enemy , age is forgotten, and then what goes down goes down, so just because we are dealing with youth, I am not suggesting giving dangerouse , threatening youths a bye.

Once they cross a cetain line in possible handling weapons or just dangerouse actions,, then it is another story, to me , here at this time, again only by what I have read, , not there to observe, they hadn't reached that point.

One point not mentioned, just had a thought.
Who were these border troops, their experience, the experience of the officers and Non commissioned over them...reservist, newly experienced regulers serving and at the end of their active duty committment, {I know the majority of th Israeli armed forces,{Not Air Force} but ground troops, IDF, consist of trained reservist, not a large standing enlisted force, even the non Coms, officers , lower levels..not professional career types except for senior staff, I would like to know who was on the lines , it might give a clue as to the actions taken.

Example, as one brought up what if same happened on our borders, I would like to see first line of defense, RA MP units, battalion, well trained in crowd control , riot and demonstration conditions, then backed up by RA light infrantry and only then if needed reservist , Nation Guards men..and experienced Non Coms, Officers in control of these units..

[henryclay]

SOME prople need a lesson in "lethal force". There are places right here in the United States where signs are about fifty feet apart and say plain and simple: "Guards are posted and authorized to use lethal force".

I suggest the bleeding hearts who claim the Palestinians were doing nothing to invite lethal force should go to any one of those places and test the meaning of what the signs say. There are three places that I know of within a hundred miles of me right now.

Those are the ones I know about. There are probably others. The most widely known place is called "Area 51" at Groom Lake in Nevada.

There are otrher places where the government has washed its hands and put up signs to the effect that, "If you proceed further you may get shot by unauthorized immigrants in this area".

Who wants to be first? I'll help pay for the gas you'll need on the one way trip. I'll do that in exchange for holding your "last will and testiment". How you get back home is up to your heirs.

[txbo]

Jun 5, 2011 14:29:28 GMT -5 henryclay said:

SOME prople need a lesson in "lethal force". There are places right here in the United States where signs are about fifty feet apart and say plain and simple: "Guards are posted and authorized to use lethal force".

I suggest the bleeding hearts who claim the Palestinians were doing nothing to invite lethal force should go to any one of those places and test the meaning of what the signs say. There are three places that I know of within a hundred miles of me right now.

Those are the ones I know about. There are probably others. The most widely known place is called "Area 51" at Groom Lake in Nevada.

There are otrher places where the government has washed its hands and put up signs to the effect that, "If you proceed further you may get shot by unauthorized immigrants in this area".

Who wants to be first? I'll help pay for the gas you'll need on the one way trip. I'll do that in exchange for holding your "last will and testiment". How you get back home is up to your heirs.

How many people have been killed wandering around Area 51 and many have done so. The cammo dudes who are usually civilian’s contractors will seldom interact with trespassers but will notify the local sheriff department.

[henryclay]

How many people have been killed wandering around Area 51 and many have done so. The cammo dudes who are usually civilian’s contractors will seldom interact with trespassers but will notify the local sheriff department.

I understand that to mean there is cooperation between the occupants of the facilities and local law enforcement, with the intented purpose of preventing unnauthorized entry. Perhaps there is a factor of saving lives included.

The Syrians have the same opportunity to prevent unauthorized entry into Israel by people from the Syriaan side, too. What you are saying is that either, 1) Our dudes in cammies should act like the Syrians, or 2), the Syrians should asct like our dudes in cammies.

As to how many have been killed trying to get in to places they don't belong, , , , , I'd ask the people with the authority to keep it from happening. But since the Syrians don't act like our dudes in cammies 12 people on the Syrian side of the barb wire fence won't ever again be throwing rocks at Israelis or testing their border defenses.

Edited to ask: How many people have tested the signs in the desert that say people with guns might shoot at them? Do you suppose those people with the guns are going to call the local sheriffs and ask them to remove the interlopers out of the danger zone? ? ? ? ? ?

For the safety of the innocently curious citizen who is just out for a walk, don't you know.