Openness to sharing financial info

[maraqxa]

I just moved into a new home about 3 months ago and one of our neighbors decided to have a block party this weekend so we went over there.
DH and I were just amazed at the willingness of people to sharing financial info. One of our neighbors told us that they would take care of finishing basement once they had their finances in order, another neighbor has their home listed because the house payment is too big for them. Then many of them were talking about their homes and costs, etc.

We started wondering if people just happen to be more open nowadays, it reminds me of the thread about
"most people" and I wonder if they just think we are all on the same boat financially so no harm in being open.

Have you had these experiences lately?

[Deleted]

I think the level of discussion you were hearing was appropriate; for example neighbors might ask someone why they are selling their house.

But I would find it odd if they were comparing salaries or net worth.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...in some ways, yes... I think after the 2008 crash I noticed it more in our cocktail conversations...

[maraqxa]

May 30, 2011 19:42:19 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

I think the level of discussion you were hearing was appropriate; for example neighbors might ask someone why they are selling their house.

But I would find it odd if they were comparing salaries or net worth.

Comparing salaries or net worth is a little extreme. I didn't ask them anything, they just volunteered info.

[Deleted]

It depends on the levell of detail. Numbers would make me uncomfortable, but "we're going to finish the basement as soon as we get our finances in order" could mean anything.

My mother hd a friend who was pretty clueless about finances and told my mother one day that her husband's take-home pay increased that month "because they stopped taking out FICA". She had no clue that she'd just told my mother what her DH's YTD gross pay was. Then there was the year they handed out economic stimulus payments to everyone making under $150K. DH was talking with a couple of guys from church, one of whom was our dentist, and they were talking about what they were doing with their payment and asked what we were doing with ours. DH said, "we didn't get one because we make over the max". Then they asked him what the max was. DH played ignorant and said he wasn't sure but that between my salary, his SS and his freelance income, we exceeded it.

[busymom]

I agree that people give out more information than they used to. I remember talking with a group of friends, and everyone was telling what percentage their IRA's went down after the latest crash. Most people lost between 25-40%, as I recall.

However, I still don't think people are comfortable discussing their salaries, or take home pay.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

I never share my personal financial information. Taking this strategy solves many problems and never places me in situations that I do not like to be in.

[Deleted]

I think there is a difference in saying:

- I will wait till my finances are in order, I just can't afford the mortgage payments, or in my case : The apartment is way too expensive

and saying:
- Our gross income is 90K without counting bonuses, we contribute 25% to our 401K, our net is about $4,300 or so a month, our car payments are about $750/month, my wife has over 100K students loans.

First part is vague, and let it to others imagination while the second gives you the nitty grittty: no ones in the real world besides my wife and I (and of course YM) knows the details of the second one.

[Urban Chicago]

I agree that the conversation you heard is pretty normal. Yes, I would think it odd if they started using real numbers or something, but most of that info seems pretty harmless or actually helpful (like the one who told you they were selling the house. Maybe he was doing so to drum up leads?)

[Gardening Grandma]

May 31, 2011 8:28:52 GMT -5 Urban Chicago said:

I agree that the conversation you heard is pretty normal. Yes, I would think it odd if they started using real numbers or something, but most of that info seems pretty harmless or actually helpful (like the one who told you they were selling the house. Maybe he was doing so to drum up leads?)

I think it's always smart to let people know if you are trying to sell your house (or seriously planning to).... Your neighbors may well know someone who might be interested.

We don't talk in specifics about finances. Our friends (and my adult kids) are aware that we are retired and that both of us are drawing pensions. My son knows what our house cost us (because we sought his advice during the build) and what it appraised for when we refinanced the mortgage (I did volunteer that information).

[Deleted]

Everyone is pretty tight-lipped about specific numbers - and I confess I don't share my salary or 401k balance with others, but...

I think it is refreshing that people are starting to be a bit more open about their financial situations. I like that it is okay to say "gosh, we just can't afford that right now" now.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

I think it is refreshing that people are starting to be a bit more open about their financial situations.

I don't. It just plants seeds and fosters more of the Keeping Up With The Joneses.

[dancinmama]

A neighbor of ours was discussing home values with DH. From previous discussions we know that they bought their home for almost $900K and have put an additional $200K into it ($100K decorating it and another $100K on a pool, pool house, and back yard landscaping). All of a sudden he is talking about "downsizing". We know that his business has really taken a hit in this economy (commercial door sales), but to be talking about possibly selling at this point, he's got to be really hurting as the home is now worth less than $650K.

I hope that people who are going through this "Great Recession" don't forget it when/IF the economy once again becomes robust. Our neighbor's lifestyle (3 luxury cars, a boat, 4 household jobs regularly hired out, vacation cabin, etc.) shows that they thought the gravy train would never end. Quite frankly, I don't know how they're paying all their bills.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"as soon as we get our finances in order" could mean anything.":::...

This especially could mean anything. For "most people" getting finances in order/affording it, means being able to swing a monthly payment. For others, "finances in order" means fully funded retirement, maxed out accounts, no debt, two college tuitions, and double the cash saved up before considering it.

I agree I would want to know if a neighbor was selling due to something that would affect all of the rest of us.

[thyme4change]

Oh, so printing that t-shirt with my balance sheet on the front and my tax return on the back was a bad idea?

[stats45]

Probably not the best idea thyme...

I've noticed that people hurt particularly hard by the recession (and younger people) have no problem talking about a lower salary, reduced net worth, debt levels.

Maybe it is a way to gather some sympathy and help reassure them that is a a broader problem and not just about them?

[thyme4change]

I'm not sure why talking money is so taboo - especially if you are talking in general terms.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't see the big deal either. I've talked about wage freezes with a lot of people, it's been good as far as debating whether or not I want to look for a different job. The answer is no because the private sector is just as bad if not worse, at least here I still have good benefits and they are contributing to my retirement.

We don't talk about our actual income, but I don't see where it is so rude to share that none of us have recieved a pay raise in X amount of time or longer.

[stats45]

I think that the norm is changing a bit. I'm 26, and I know the starting salaries and employment conditions of about everyone who graduated from my program, and most other people I'm reasonably close to.

I talk considerably less than most people I know about these things, but I'm struggling to think of someone I know where I don't know about what they make (within about 10-20% or so) whether they make $50k or $500k.

[stats45]

I really don't see the problem either. A lot of great financial information is shared in networks.

If you don't talk about some things with people (at least in general terms), you might miss out on some good opportunities or information.

[thyme4change]

I think that the norm is changing a bit. I'm 26, and I know the starting salaries and employment conditions of about everyone who graduated from my program, and most other people I'm reasonably close to.

I will say that when I graduated from college, I knew what most people started at. We all shared a lot. We were close, we were all going into the great unknown. We were all trying to figure out what "average" was. It didn't really become taboo until we started seeing a lot more variation in our salaries. Then, the top people stopped "bragging" and the bottom people stopped talking due to embarrassment, and the people in the middle felt odd because everyone else stopped too. Now, it is just more general - such as "My company had a good year, and my bonus reflected that!" Well - what does that mean?

[shanendoah]

At a block party, people were talking about their houses? Well, duh. It's a block party. That's pretty much all these folks have in common. Commenting that you're planning on re-doing the basement but are waiting until your finances are in order- that's small talk. That shares absolutely nothing about your actual financial situation as it could mean you're saving up to pay cash, or it could mean you're waiting to get out from under piles of debt.
As for putting the house up for sale- well, its not like the entire neighborhood isn't going to notice. And if you're in the type of neighborhood to have block parties, you're in the type of neighborhood to gossip. Best to let people know the truth than have them speculate. But again, nothing about this person's actual finances have been revealed. You have no idea what the monthly payment on the house is. The most you could know is what it sold for last (as that's a matter of public record), but you don't know if there's been a refinance, or the terms of the loan, or even what their homeowner's insurance policy is like. Heck, for all you know, to them, "too big" means that even if they sell the current house at a small loss, they could buy a similar house for only 1/2-2/3 their current payment, making the current payment "too big" in their minds.

I see nothing wrong with this kind of small talk. I do see how it could encourage "keeping up with the Jones's" under certain circumstances, but it can also (from the examples provided) encourage fiscal responsibility - we're waiting until our finances are in order to re-do the basement.

With neighbors and casual acquaintances, I'd be more than willing to share this kind of information as it really doesn't share anything. I'd actually be willing to share quite a bit more. But see, I have this theory that in a vacuum, luck is the only thing that separates a good decision from a bad one, so lets get rid of the vacuum. The more information I have, the better decisions I can make- financial and otherwise. And if I can't talk about finances with my friends and family, how am I ever supposed to escape the vaccuum?
Just think how different the housing crisis could have been, if people had been willing to talk about housing prices, mortgages, and bubbles. What if people had had more information than what the real estate agents and mortgage brokers were feeding them? I'm not saying the crash wouldn't have happened, but I bet it could have been significantly mitigated.

[maraqxa]

I guess we don't share any financial info and have never been in the position before where people are sharing with us, so that's why we were wondering.

I guess you are all for sharing everything but salary and net worth which is all good. My initial thoughts were that people just don't mind much anymore telling you where they are at.

[thyme4change]

I guess I'm still not sure how much information people really shared. I mean, I would tell you what we paid for our car - because I know you could google it anyway, so I'm all for saving you that trouble. Although, I haven't told anyone what we spent on our backyard, but I have said "that was a lot!" Someone might think we spent a hundred grand out there - or maybe they think we spent ten grand - both are definately a lot of money. I know my husband confessed the actual amount to one of his friends, but they share all sorts of information.

You can also look up what I owe on my house, what I bought my house for, what my house is probably worth, etc. So, if you have the balls to ask, I'll tell you a real number.

[debtheaven]

We are friendly with a lot of our neighbors, and even very close friends with some of them. We often talk about home renovations, and our plans for our next project. And often in terms of "when we have the money" or "when we can" because as others have said, those phrases can mean anything or nothing.

But NOBODY would ever DREAM of talking about net worth, income, bonuses. But, I have sometimes asked close friends what they paid for this or that (ie a remodeled bathroom because we were planning on remodeling ours), as they have us. I ended up using the same contractor. Not long after, the other two houses on our street (there are only four) used the same contractor too.

This ties into another recent thread about people asking about the cost of things. If it's prurient interest, I wouldn't answer (I have to admit that has never happened to me LOL.) If it's a friend who is planning to do some work in their house, or purchase something I got a good deal on, why not?

As somebody else said, to me, it's all "small talk" about what is probably everybody's greatest asset: their home. I'd look at it as a great opportunity to exchange info / names / recommendations and to get to know your neighbors etc.

[Cookies Galore]

May 31, 2011 11:22:26 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Oh, so printing that t-shirt with my balance sheet on the front and my tax return on the back was a bad idea?

I am going to take this idea and run with it. BF is a printer/embroiderer so I could get an updated shirt each month.

[formerexpat]

Have you had these experiences lately?

I think that when people are in like type homes in the same neighborhood, and potentially more when they become friends with those people, they are more open to share financially what they are going through.

I don't know if it's because they think the people they're talking to can relate or if they figure that you know the general costs of living in the home, so it's not like you're hiding anything.

This is the first time I've owned, so I didn't know if it was out of the ordinary or not.

We've experienced that with a few of our neighbors. They all know I'm financially minded and they come to me for general financial advice and some tax questions, all of which I preface with "I'm not a tax professional or a CFP", so I've wondered if that was why they're more open with me?

Specifically, one neighbor said they wouldn't be able to put a deck on as large as they wanted [they wanted one the size of ours] because cash was going to be tight for the next several months after they had their baby. I was shocked that they even spent $18k on the deck instead of the $25k deck that would match the size of the deck we are building when there is a cash flow problem...but I'm not having that conversation with them; it's not my business.

I just don't think they understand, have a bit of the keep up with the Joneses [the wife more than the husband] and this home was probably on the higher end of what they could afford - so, basically, the complete opposite of my wife and me but they're a really nice couple and we get along great with them. They have children close in age to ours too, so there is no need for me to address my concerns...although I do have them since they are in their early 40's and don't seem to have their financial house in order.

[Ava]

I am very private with my financial info, and I don't want to know details about other people's finances.
Exceptions are my mother, and two dear friends. I tell my mother almost anything, and with the two friends I share financial details every now and then.
But I don't see anything wrong with making comments like: "I'll wait a little longer to buy that, I can't afford it right now." I make that kind of statement somentimes and I don't feel like it is a big deal.

[Regis]

"It is one of my sources of happiness never to desire a knowledge of other people's business."

--Dolley Madison,
4th U.S. first lady

[Frugal Nurse]

Why is everyone so tight-lipped in sharing specific #'s with friends? I had a friend's DH once ask what my income was (mostly because he was considering going into nursing), I had no issue letting him know what I made at that time and what my benefits were. Is it a little weird to just up and ask someone what they make? Yeah, kinda. Does it make me uncomfortable to answer? Nope. I don't tie my self-worth into my net worth. I hope that my friends are not people who would judge me by my income (and, honestly, most of them are in low-wage jobs, so they'd have no room to judge). I don't go around bragging and broadcasting what I make, and most people implicitly know that nurses in our area make a good living, but if a friend were to directly ask me, I'd tell them.