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Post by marshabar1 on May 26, 2011 10:41:40 GMT -5
Then it might just be that my brain is too literal and having taken evolution, behavioral ecology etc I can't reasonably hold up the clownfish and female geckos as examples of transgenderism and acceptance of it in nature. Because that's assigning our own biases onto nature and there is a valid evoultionary reason why a clownfish can switch sex and why the geckos are usually all female (they can switch sexes too!). Transgenderism in people as far as we know so far doesn't have a purpose like a clownfish switching sexes does. I get the message they are trying to send, but to me it is so silly as to be laughable. You can't compare the two. It's about a political agenda. That being to undermine the traditional values that give strength to the social fabric. Social chaos gives progressivess a better opportunity to wreak their special brand of havoc.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2011 11:26:17 GMT -5
you believe what you read in the supermarket checkout line? Missed the ball again? excuse me? did I mis-read your comment? because what I got out of that is that you believe what's written on the magazine cover you posted. if that's not what you meant by posting a picture to indicate that "It's all the rage, very cool, very hip." to have your child not be normal, please let us know.
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Post by marshabar1 on May 26, 2011 11:32:47 GMT -5
"This is just who he is — his brain is just wired in such a way that he's male. It doesn't matter what his genitalia is," said the child's mom, whose name the Orlando Sentinel agreed to withhold because she wants to protect her child's identity. Although mental-health experts disagree on whether people should make such a dramatic transition at a young age, children as young as 5 are doing it. They're changing their names, insisting on a new pronoun and altering their appearance with new clothes and hairstyles. As a result, school districts are having to make some controversial changes. What should schools do about restrooms and locker rooms? How do they make sure everybody uses the correct pronouns? How should teachers explain the situation to curious classmates? It's hard to know how many people are transgender, an umbrella term that includes those whose biological sex doesn't match their internal sense of masculinity or femininity. Nobody tracks statistics, and many transgender people prefer to keep information private. The American Psychological Association estimates that about 1 in 10,000 males will transition to female, with or without sexual-reassignment surgery. About 1 in 30,000 females will. The National Center for Transgender Equality thinks the number is one-fourth percent to 1 percent of the population. www.orlandosentinel.com/os-florida-transgender-students-0920120100904,0,190798.story?page=1
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Post by marshabar1 on May 26, 2011 11:35:48 GMT -5
J.CREW, a popular preppy woman's clothing brand and favorite affordable line of first lady Michelle Obama, is targeting a new demographic - mothers of gender-confused young boys. At least, that's the impression given by a new marketing piece that features blatant propaganda celebrating transgendered children. An email sent to customers on Tuesday, April 5th contained a promotion for free shipping if the customer spends $150 or more. The email also contained a feature called 'Jenna's favorites,' highlighting special selections by J.CREW designer Jenna Lyons. Jenna selected a striped long-sleeve t-shirt, and hot pink nail polish by Essie, modeled by her young son. In the feature, Jenna is pictured with her adorable curly-haired son Beckett, and the two are seen giggling with Jenna holding Beckett's feet, containing hot pink painted toe-nails. 'Lucky for me, I ended up with a boy whose favorite color is pink,' read Jenna's quote. 'Toenail painting is way more fun in neon.' Not only is Beckett likely to change his favorite color as early as tomorrow, Jenna's indulgence (or encouragement) could make life hard for the boy in the future. J.CREW, known for its tasteful and modest clothing, apparently does not mind exploiting Beckett behind the façade of liberal, transgendered identity politics. One has to wonder what young boys in pink nail polish has to do with selling women's clothing. Propaganda pushing the celebration of gender-confused boys wanting to dress and act like girls is a growing trend, seeping into mainstream culture. NBC's Today show on January 3 featured a segment on the 'Princess Boy' in which five-year-old Dyson Kilodavis was seen twirling in pink ballerina tutu, much to the delight of his mother Cheryl and host Meredith Vieira.[a href="http:// transpedianews.com/?p=402"]http:// transpedianews.com/?p=402[/a] Some people would rather snipe than use the brains the good Lord gave them.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 26, 2011 11:56:04 GMT -5
"J.CREW, known for its tasteful and modest clothing, apparently does not mind exploiting Beckett behind the façade of liberal, transgendered identity politics."
A boy wearing pink nail polish on his toes is not evidence of a boy living as a girl. I think some people are too uptight about gender roles. My theory is if people were accepted as who they are instead of needing to fully fit in these gender role boxes the amount of transgender surgery would drop.
Not a fan of tutus on girls or boys but again not the end of the world or a horrible trend unless the child is acting as a female 24x7.
Very odd lesson in the OP. I also agree how would this stop bullying as transgender IMO does not exist in the animal kingdom.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 26, 2011 12:46:15 GMT -5
Should schools show photos of grisly auto accidents just because they happen? They do. Around here, they have mock DWI crashes complete with fake blood, actual ambulances/EMT's, and funeral directors hauling away "the body" in their hearse.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 13:37:03 GMT -5
Well, somebody somewhere has an agenda, or this stuff would not be in the news every week or two now. All this stuff with kids, schools, gender garbage-- can't people latch on to some adult cause instead of messing with kids?? Gov't loves seeing people all sidetracked on side issues and not paying attention to what they are doing..
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 13:40:11 GMT -5
I don't see it on the news, but I don't live in California. I only hear about this stuff here on P&M. ;D Major news channels I have been watching are currently covering the tornadoes. Which is what I think most of us here in Tornado alley are worrying about right now. I don't have time to worry about what they are teaching in Calfornia when my house might blow away any day now.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 13:45:11 GMT -5
Good for you, drama, and good luck. People SHOULD be focusing on real issues, not how to slip gender re-training issues in to schools starting out with "gender light" in grade K. Especially in CA where they have so many huge issues to address.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 13:49:19 GMT -5
So far ::Knock on wood:: the really bad stuff has missed us here in Iowa, but there have been a lot of watches and warnings so far. I keep wondering how long we can stay lucky. If this lesson was being taught in grade school here I honestly don't know if I would be offended or pissing myself laughing over the absurdity of it.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 26, 2011 14:00:26 GMT -5
So far ::Knock on wood:: the really bad stuff has missed us here in Iowa, but there have been a lot of watches and warnings so far. I keep wondering how long we can stay lucky. If this lesson was being taught in grade school here I honestly don't know if I would be offended or pissing myself laughing over the absurdity of it. I guess it would really depend on what the ciriculum states must be taught. If the normal conversation is do you boys and girls understand why a clown fish changes it's gender, not a problem; if the normal conversation goes now after learning about the clownfish switching from boy to girl we have people in our community who have these same feeling and desires to do what a clown fish does naturally, I see an issue. Learning of the natural biology of animals (frogs have been know to spontainously change sex if an overpopulation of one sex controls an area) should cause no problems, it's what the ciriculum demands be discussed afterwards that needs to looked at. Dramaq1015: Stay safe.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 14:04:03 GMT -5
THAT is the issue, cme, of course. Not the clown fish, that is just the K level class. It is what comes next, and what comes next is not about fish.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 14:08:27 GMT -5
if the normal conversation goes now after learning about the clownfish switching from boy to girl we have people in our community who have these same feeling and desires to do what a clown fish does naturally, I see an issue.See this is where I don't know whether to be offended or laugh because a fish does not FEEL or DESIRE to become a male. It becomes a male because nature "told" it to based on a set criteria of physical and enviromental signals solely for reproductive purposes. I'd probably bust out laughing if a teacher told me this was the idea of the lecture. Transgender people and a fish that can switch genders are not even remotely the same thing. I know I am missing the politics behind it which is the whole point of P&M. I'm just stuck on who the hell was able to make a connection between transgender people and a clownfish. I can certainly understand not wanting your kids to be taught about transgenderism from the perspective of depending on how it is handled that it may not be an age appropriate topic and it isn't exactly one most adults understand, let alone be able to explain to a 5 year old. I learned from Donahue, my parents were more careful about what was on the TV from that point onward.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2011 14:09:37 GMT -5
I'm just stuck on who the hell was able to make a connection between transgender people and a clownfish. fear of that which is different from you. it produces strange reactions in some people.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 14:10:16 GMT -5
LOL, drama!! People with a "cause."
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 14:12:24 GMT -5
LOL, drama!! People with a "cause."I think they really do themselves a disservice because I am sitting here going "Huh?" and wondering where my ecology textbook is. No pondering their actual cause here. I think it's dumb all the way around because you just cannot link these things to nature like that. You can say they have a biological basis nad they do, but a clownfish is NOT transgendered. I have this mental image of Nemo swimming around going "I wish I were a female clown fish". Yeah. . .
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 26, 2011 14:14:26 GMT -5
Redwood Heights Elementary School is who according to the article.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 14:16:15 GMT -5
LOL, my granddaughters love Nemo, and I have never felt the need to pause the movie and explain anything about Nemo to them as it MAY relate (not) to someone they MAY meet (possible) at SOME point in their lives....
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 26, 2011 14:19:55 GMT -5
I barely remember now, but we learned in HS Biology about plants having pistles and stamins, and it all seemed very unisexual. I think there may have also been some insects and/ or lower orders of animals who also could be both or switch, all for reproduction purposes. I never realized before that this stuff was perv though. I thought it was biology. There's a scene in Grease 2 with the song "Reproduction" Reproduction, reproduction Make my stamen go berserk. it's all very sexual, lol.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 14:21:15 GMT -5
I apparently went up to my dad and asked him if he was a woman trapped in a man's body. The reponse was what the hell and where did I get that from? Apparently I was able to explain in quite a bit of detail exactly what I was asking him. Wish I could remember the look on his face. That's not something you expect your four year old to ask you!
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2011 14:24:19 GMT -5
I apparently went up to my dad and asked him if he was a woman trapped in a man's body. The reponse was what the hell and where did I get that from? Apparently I was able to explain in quite a bit of detail exactly what I was asking him. Wish I could remember the look on his face. That's not something you expect your four year old to ask you! I think I may have seen this too. I remember my Nana also watching Sally Jessy Raphael too, I think she had a few transgender guests as well.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 14:26:29 GMT -5
Where were those little black boxes in the corner of the screen warning about content when our parents needed them?
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Post by shelby on May 26, 2011 14:38:59 GMT -5
Then it might just be that my brain is too literal and having taken evolution, behavioral ecology etc I can't reasonably hold up the clownfish and female geckos as examples of transgenderism and acceptance of it in nature. Because that's assigning our own biases onto nature and there is a valid evoultionary reason why a clownfish can switch sex and why the geckos are usually all female (they can switch sexes too!). Transgenderism in people as far as we know so far doesn't have a purpose like a clownfish switching sexes does. I get the message they are trying to send, but to me it is so silly as to be laughable. You can't compare the two. It's about a political agenda. That being to undermine the traditional values that give strength to the social fabric. Social chaos gives progressivess a better opportunity to wreak their special brand of havoc. Oh give me a break who is pushing an agenda here. Traditional values fine for you maybe not others who gasp are able to change with the times and an evolving society..or let me guess you do not believe in evolution. Maybe some (read a lot) of folks don't want to be stuck in the dark ages with you. What about hamaphrodites(sp) can anyone spell off the top of their head? Very natural cannot deny they are born that way...Or do not believe in hamaphrodites either?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 26, 2011 14:43:51 GMT -5
Hermaphrodite.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 14:44:27 GMT -5
I can understand not being thrilled at having to handle the topic because the schools taught it. Transgenderism is very hard to explain and understand.
I attened a lecture by a transgender person in college and there is even debate in the transgender community about what it means to be transgendered.
The main line in the sand is if you are considered transgendered if you don't go thru sexual reassigment surgery (and many don't).
If transgendered people cannot explain what ti means to be transgendered then how is someone who has never even given it a thought till the school brought it up supposed to explain it to a 5 year old?
Just based on the article in the OP I think it is quite a leap to assume that a 5 year old is going to make the connection between a fish and a transgendered person and is easily deflected by saying humans can't change sex like fish can (and we can't).
The lesson as it stands in the OP is pretty abstract.
If they are actually trying to explain transgenderism to 5 year olds then that is a different kettle of fish (pun intended).
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 14:59:32 GMT -5
I know everything there could possibly be to know about the GLBT community, having been an exclusive member for years when I was younger. But I did not need to learn it in school because the people are among us if one chooses to interact with them. Being from parents in their 70s I was never "taught" about gays, and my lack of "education" did not make gays etc my enemies. Quite the contrary, actually. I think the problem with KIDS would be in them coming from homes that actively teach AGAINST gay people, and, sorry, I just do not believe that is widespread in todays parents of little ones. MY parents had little exposure, taught me nothing. What I learned on my own led ME to teach MY kids a simple lesson of judging people by their character-- period. No deep lesson needed in that. As MY kids grew up, were exposed to gay people, acted on my simple principle of judge not, they had gay friends in HS, earlier than me because of society progressing beyond where I was, and my parents before me. Now-- my kids are the young parents of the little ones, and I have faith that very few young people are teaching hate for gays to their kids. The conversation is coming to an end, actually, but people won't accept that. Just let the kids grow up. They will be fine. How about going back to teaching them how to spell and read and do math, maybe? ;D
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 15:08:36 GMT -5
How about going back to teaching them how to spell and read and do math, maybe?
Agreed.
That's what I'd be more peeved about, that really? We are taking time out of an already overly crammed full of shit school day to try to draw parallels between fish that can switch sexes and transgendered people?
Besides my Donahue "education" I didn't really learn about transgenderism till I took psychology in high school.
Which that is a class it does have a place in, same with sociology and other social science classes.
I think we need to spend time teaching kindergartends their ABCs and if you want to teach anti-bullying, think up a better less abstract lesson please.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 26, 2011 15:10:16 GMT -5
How about going back to teaching them how to spell and read and do math, maybe?Agreed. That's what I'd be more peeved about, that really? We are taking time out of an already overly crammed full of shit school day to try to draw parallels between fish that can switch sexes and transgendered people? Besides my Donahue "education" I didn't really learn about transgenderism till I took psychology in high school. Which that is a class it does have a place in, same with sociology and other social science classes. I think we need to spend time teaching kindergartends their ABCs and if you want to teach anti-bullying, think up a better less abstract lesson please. agreed whole heartedly
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 15:18:19 GMT -5
I can see the little ones telling Mommy and Daddy, "Today I learned to write my ABCs, raise my hand to go potty, and to be nice to all fish..."
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 26, 2011 15:37:04 GMT -5
Today I learned to write my ABCs, raise my hand to go potty, and to be nice to all fish..."
HA! That's pretty much how I visualize it going down when the kids arrive home.
Someone thought they were being smart and speaking at a kid's level of understanding.
Instead it's probably going over the kids' heads and they have pissed off parents hot on their heels.
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