CA elementary school teaches transgender lesson

[ed1066]

SF Bay Area, of course...

Kindergarten included, of course...

Taxpayer funded, of course...

www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Transgender-Clownfish-Controversy-122617749.html

Redwood Heights Elementary School, in Oakland, is in the hot-seat after the school decided to education students about gender diversity.

On Monday and Tuesday, students of every grade were taught what the school called age-appropriate lessons about gender differences. Some lessons included all-girl geckos, a transgender clownfish, and boy snakes who act "girly" reports the San Francisco Chronicle.

"That's a lot of variation in nature," Gender Spectrum trainer, Joel Baum, told the students. "Evolution comes up with some pretty funny ways for animals to reproduce."

Principal Sara Stone said the lesson on gender differences was part of a larger effort to control bullying in the school, something parents supported last year.

However, after the lessons began, several parents felt discussion in the classroom was too much.

The Pacific Justice Institute, a conservative organization, said teaching children that there may be more than two genders, "does not represent the values of the majority of families in Oakland,"

The $1,500 cost of training was funded by a grant from the California Teachers Association.

[Deleted]

Geez, Mad Dawg lives there. I hope he sees this because he seems to be gender limited to me. Alas.. we do not have this in Tucson yet, so I will have to wait to sign up for gender re-education with the little kids.

[pappyjohn99]

The $1,500 cost of training was funded by a grant from the California Teachers Association.

I wonder if all the dues paying members of the union agree that this a fit way to spend their money......

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

If it was funded by a grant from the union, is it still considered "taxpayer funded?"

Who knew fish could be transgendered?

Some guy makes a living as a "gender spectrum trainer?" Mmmm..... OK.

[Deleted]

I wonder who teaches this? Do they bring in special people, or just pull some poor teacher out of a class and say "Here's your new lesson plan"?

[Deleted]

Hey, Ed, I just remembered the discussion about this stuff in CA before.... where people tore you up insisting this is not for little kids, but for older kids. Well, looks like you just proved your point.

[moon/Laura]

no krickitt. his previous topic involved teaching about homosexuality in history..

transgender does not equal homosexual, i don't think.

[Deleted]

What is the issue? Based on the OP it seems like a very reasonable lesson.

[billisonboard]

May 26, 2011 8:35:50 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

no krickitt. his previous topic involved teaching about homosexuality in history..

transgender does not equal homosexual, i don't think.

And he was "tore up" for falsely claiming in the title that a proposed law would "require" that it be taught at the elementry level.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

OMG, children might get ideas!

There are fish that actually BECOME male (I forgot the name of them) when there is no male fish around to lead the harem. Lots of animals change sex several times during their lifetime.

Sounds like another lecture in Behavorial Ecology to me.

I honestly cannot see the link between behavorial ecology and bullying myself. Not really sure how effective a lesson that is when it comes to preventing bullying.

[billisonboard]

The Pacific Justice Institute, a conservative organization, said teaching children that there may be more than two genders, "does not represent the values of the majority of families in Oakland," (from the OP)

Should schools avoid teaching certain information because of "the values of the majority" in their community?

[pappyjohn99]

Should schools show photos of grisly auto accidents just because they happen?

[chiver78]

May 26, 2011 8:50:09 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Should schools show photos of grisly auto accidents just because they happen?

if it helps prevent drunk driving accidents, absolutely! did you know that schools will stage mock accidents around prom season? they partner with local law enforcement to show the aftermath of a post-prom "accident" that kills one of their classmates.

[billisonboard]

May 26, 2011 8:50:09 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Should schools show photos of grisly auto accidents just because they happen?

Very appropriate in driver education classes and potentially in classes dealing with the issue of alcohol abuse.

[pappyjohn99]

High school. Not Kindergarden.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Still not getting how knowing a clownfish can switch sexes is going to corrupt California youth. It's a fish for crying out loud.

If you think learning that clownfish can switch sexes is going to corrupt your kid then you didn't do a very good job.

And I also don't see how it translates into having to explain transgendered humans, which are a totally different ball park than a clownfish being able to switch genders for reproductive purposes.

It is a fish, it does what nature programs it to do. Ta da!

[chiver78]

May 26, 2011 8:59:54 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Still not getting how knowing a clownfish can switch sexes is going to corrupt California youth. It's a fish for crying out loud.

If you think learning that clownfish can switch sexes is going to corrupt your kid then you didn't do a very good job.

And I also don't see how it translates into having to explain transgendered humans, which are a totally different ball park than a clownfish being able to switch genders for reproductive purposes.

It is a fish, it does what nature programs it to do. Ta da!

[pappyjohn99]

Me Too.

[ed1066]

Read the article, people. It's an object lesson on how "some girls aren't really girls" and "some boys aren't really boys" and if you are born one but want to become the other, that's just fine and dandy. In elementary school, really? Read between the lines a little, people. The animals are mascots because they can't actually talk about people (yet). Duh...

And, yes, if the CTA paid for this, it is taxpayer funded. Taxes pay the teachers' salaries, and those salaries are (involuntarily) garnished for union dues to CTA...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It's an object lesson on how "some girls aren't really girls" and "some boys aren't really boys" and if you are born one but want to become the other, that's just fine and dandy.

I still don't see it because it's not the same thing. A clownfish is not wandering around the ocean as a male clownfish trapped in a female clown fish's body. The fish responds to a very precise, evolutionally designed set of signals that tell it to become a male FOR REPRODUCTION.

Humans can't do that. It's a very long, expensive, complicated process for a human to change sexes.

Very simple answer is "No, humans can't change sex like clownfish", which is totally accurate. No need to explain the exception that is transgenderism to a child.

I think the lesson is stupid because you are not comparing apples to apples and I think the parents are overreacting.

It's stupid and pointless all the way around. A fascinating behavorial ecology study, but you can't use a clownfish as an example of how nature "accepts" transgenderism because that's not what it is in the case of the clownfish.

[moon/Laura]

May 26, 2011 9:48:51 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

It's an object lesson on how "some girls aren't really girls" and "some boys aren't really boys" and if you are born one but want to become the other, that's just fine and dandy. In elementary school, really? Read between the lines a little, people. The animals are mascots because they can't actually talk about people (yet). Duh...

yes, ed, i think we're all aware of why animals were used... personally, think they shouldn't bother until after 3rd grade, at least. any time before that is just going to confuse kids. but my son is in 3rd grade (for a few more days) and i think that if he heard the term on tv or something and asked me what it meant, he would 'get' my explanation.

as to how it could possibly prevent bullying, i don't know that it would. even when people are taught about things like disabilities, etc, they will still pick on those that don't align with their definition of normal. the fact that a transgender child is basically 'hard wired' that way is not going to make it ok to others, i don't think. most simply don't have the capacity to put themselves into the transgendered child's shoes and feel how confusing and "wrong" it must feel. hell..many adults probably can't either.

i am in the 'live and let live' camp myself.

[ed1066]

May 26, 2011 9:53:41 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

It's an object lesson on how "some girls aren't really girls" and "some boys aren't really boys" and if you are born one but want to become the other, that's just fine and dandy.

I still don't see it because it's not the same thing. A clownfish is not wandering around the ocean as a male clownfish trapped in a female clown fish's body. The fish responds to a very precise, evolutionally designed set of signals that tell it to become a male FOR REPRODUCTION.

Humans can't do that. It's a very long, expensive, complicated process for a human to change sexes.

Very simple answer is "No, humans can't change sex like clownfish", which is totally accurate. No need to explain the exception that is transgenderism to a child.

I think the lesson is stupid because you are not comparing apples to apples and I think the parents are overreacting.

It's stupid and pointless all the way around. A fascinating behavorial ecology study, but you can't use a clownfish as an example of how nature "accepts" transgenderism because that's not what it is in the case of the clownfish.

Oh Lord. Let me let you in on a little secret...sometimes people who are marketing something to little kids use cute animals in an anthropomorphic way to transmit their agenda and ideas. Do you really think a toucan eats breakfast cereal? Do you really think a tiger named Tony makes Frosted Flakes? Get it?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

sometimes people who are marketing something to little kids use cute animals in an anthropomorphic way to transmit their agenda and ideas

Here is a secret for you: I am the parent. It's my job to instill agendas and ideas into my child and if a toucan on a cereal box and a clownfish can undo everything that I have done then maybe I should not be a parent in the first place.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

as to how it could possibly prevent bullying, i don't know that it would. even when people are taught about things like disabilities, etc, they will still pick on those that don't align with their definition of normal. the fact that a transgender child is basically 'hard wired' that way is not going to make it ok to others, i don't think. most simply don't have the capacity to put themselves into the transgendered child's shoes and feel how confusing and "wrong" it must feel. hell..many adults probably can't either.

Agreed. Personally I don't think a kindergartner can make the leap from a fish that can change sex to a transgendered child/person.

Which is why I think it's pointless as an anti-bullying tool.

And also easy to deflect because we CAN'T change sexes like a clownfish can. Easy peasy deflection if I do not want my kids to know about transgenderism in humans.

Now if the teacher then uses the story to make the leap into a detailed description of transgendered humans and how that works, then that's a different story.

But I am not really concerned about a 5 year old making the leap from a clownfish to the transgendered guy at the farmer's market running his craft booth.

[marshabar1]

My kids learned about these things in the course of learning about animals. They were also familiar with a friends goat herd which had, out of forty goats, one male who kept his tail up like a female and frolicked like a sissy. They were amused by these things, I remember their wry smiles. We gave them no political lesson to go along with their observation of the natural world.

The problem I have with the lesson about transgender is that it has a point. A single clear point. Kids should be allowed to arrive their own conclusions. This thing in California smacks of propaganda.

The article states that the reason for the "lesson" is to combat bullying. That must mean there are parents of elementary school kids who are allowing them to experiment with their gender identification. Instead of encouraging their children to conform to societal norms in the hope that they will have a happy and successful life some parents are allowing their children to go off the rail very early in life.


It's all the rage, very cool, very hip.

[chiver78]

you believe what you read in the supermarket checkout line?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Angelina Jolie made out with her own brother. I am unfortuantely not too shocked that she's going to be just as controversial when it comes to her kid.


That must mean there are parents of elementary school kids who are allowing them to experiment with their gender identification

I didn't see it that way, but then I don't live in Calfornia where they spend time debating whether people should own pets and if circumcision should be legal. So maybe it is too far of a leap for me.

That being said here there is a transgendered person who sells crafts at the Farmer's Market. To me it's better to teach the kid tolerance early for ANYONE who is "different" than to wait because even in the midwest you will probably eventually encounter someone who is "different".

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Then it might just be that my brain is too literal and having taken evolution, behavioral ecology etc I can't reasonably hold up the clownfish and female geckos as examples of transgenderism and acceptance of it in nature.

Because that's assigning our own biases onto nature and there is a valid evoultionary reason why a clownfish can switch sex and why the geckos are usually all female (they can switch sexes too!).

Transgenderism in people as far as we know so far doesn't have a purpose like a clownfish switching sexes does.

I get the message they are trying to send, but to me it is so silly as to be laughable. You can't compare the two.

[moon/Laura]

May 26, 2011 10:13:23 GMT -5 @marshabar1 said:

That must mean there are parents of elementary school kids who are allowing them to experiment with their gender identification. Instead of encouraging their children to conform to societal norms in the hope that they will have a happy and successful life some parents are allowing their children to go off the rail very early in life.

So, if a child goes to his/her parents and expresses to them that they identify more with the opposite gender, the parents are supposed to force them to "be normal", simply because society says that's the way it's supposed to be?

You don't "allow" a person to be homosexual/lesbian/transgender. you allow them to be themselves and accept them rather than telling them they are wrong or sick and then make them pretend to be what you as a parent and society think they should be.

[marshabar1]

May 26, 2011 10:15:17 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

you believe what you read in the supermarket checkout line?

Missed the ball again?