57% Say NO to Electric Car Regardless of Gas Price

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Not surprised by this. I think for me, it's not that I'm "opposed" to it, it's that as Dale Earnhardt, Jr. pointe out-- they just aren't ready for prime time.

For me, it's mobility-- when they figure out the equivalent to a "fill up" to keep me moving when the battery is low-- fine. I don't want to be restricted by the battery life.

www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2011-05-24-most-americans-refuse-electric-cars_n.htm

Nearly six of 10 Americans — 57% — say they won't buy an all-electric car no matter the price of gas, according to a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.

That's a stiff headwind just as automakers are developing electrics to help meet tighter federal rules that could require their fleets to average as high as 62 miles per gallon in 2025. And President Obama has set a goal of a million electric vehicles in use in the U.S. by 2015.

But no matter- you're gonna pay for one anyway:

content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/05/obama-administration-buying-116-chevrolet-volts-other-electrics-/1

The Obama regime is buying 116 Cheverolet Volts:

The Obama administration is buying 116 Chevrolet Volts and other plug-in electric vehicles -- despite their high cost -- and installing charging stations in five cities.

All but 15 of the electric vehicles will be General Motors' Volt extended-range electric. The General Services Administration didn't say what price it is going to pay, but the Volt compact cars are priced at $41,000 for consumers. Although the move is aimed at spurring electric-car adoption, it's not that the Volt was a slow seller: GM is basically sold out of the car through the end of the year because of limited production.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Regarding electric cars that need to be plugged in over night, how would the 10s of millions of auto owners who live in urban areas(like NYC for example), plug in their cars at night, when they do not have a driveway and part 200 feet down the street.

[Deleted]

The Obama administration is buying 116 Chevrolet Volts and other plug-in electric vehicles -- despite their high cost -- and installing charging stations in five cities.

All but 15 of the electric vehicles will be General Motors' Volt extended-range electric. The General Services Administration didn't say what price it is going to pay, but the Volt compact cars are priced at $41,000 for consumers

To bad GM doesn't make a car that has a wind mill on top. There's a clear market for one while President Obama is in office.

[Angel!]

Makes sense to me. Currently all-electic vehicles have limited uses & won't fit many peoples needs. As technology extends these cars capabilities & makes them cheaper, then they will become more popular.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

At 40 cents per KwH for electricity (a rate which will just increase in the future), the cost of electricity concerns me just as much as the cost of gasoline and the $41,000 price tag for a compact car.

But Betamax VCRs were very expensive when they first came out, too. I didn't buy one right away, but eventually did. Then I switched to VHS. And then DVDs. I'm not rushing into Blue Rays at this point.

It will be interesting to see how things are in 10 years.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Makes sense to me. Currently all-electic vehicles have limited uses & won't fit many peoples needs. As technology extends these cars capabilities & makes them cheaper, then they will become more popular.

Where will the driving public recharge?

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

At 40 cents per KwH for electricity (a rate which will just increase in the future), the cost of electricity concerns me just as much as the cost of gasoline and the $41,000 price tag for a compact car.

Of course, those of us who do not portrait superiority or who are not smug, but have a firm grasp of markets and basic economics will quickly point out an astronomical rise in demand for electricity will push up the price of electricity.

[Angel!]

May 25, 2011 15:59:43 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

Makes sense to me. Currently all-electic vehicles have limited uses & won't fit many peoples needs. As technology extends these cars capabilities & makes them cheaper, then they will become more popular.

Where will the driving public recharge?

They intend to build recharging stations for the public to use. Like I said, the technology & infrastructure isn't there yet to make electric-only a good choice for many people.

[Angel!]

May 25, 2011 15:55:26 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

At 40 cents per KwH for electricity (a rate which will just increase in the future), the cost of electricity concerns me just as much as the cost of gasoline and the $41,000 price tag for a compact car.

Holy crap! At 40 cents/kwh I would be worried too. We pay only .08/kwh here.

[fairlycrazy23]

Seems like CNG is a much better alternative for the near and mid term. You can even plug them in at home as well.

But for the most part I think fleet type vehicles should be migrated to CNG, leaving more gasoline for other vehicles.

There are many problems with all electric vehicles, for one as has been mentioned there is hardly enough electricity in some areas now so this would just strain an already over taxed grid. Second many of the components of the batteries are in short supply and under limited control (however the US could drastically expand rare earth production if it had the will). And of course the range is limited and refuel/recharge times.

[ed1066]

They intend to build recharging stations for the public to use

Hold on to your wallets! So when Joe Welfare, who got his electric car with government assistance (because, you know, it's not fair that only people who can afford the $41,000 should have one), needs to recharge, but darn it, that electricity is just TOO expensive for him, now "the government" needs to pay for the electricity for him, as well. Or at the very least, subsidize it with my taxes...

[Angel!]

May 25, 2011 16:12:56 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

They intend to build recharging stations for the public to use

Hold on to your wallets! So when Joe Welfare, who got his electric car with government assistance (because, you know, it's not fair that only people who can afford the $41,000 should have one), needs to recharge, but darn it, that electricity is just TOO expensive for him, now "the government" needs to pay for the electricity for him, as well. Or at the very least, subsidize it with my taxes...

Ok, I think it is ridiculous to assume govt assistance is buying people electric cars, so that is a stupid point. But, apparently cities are paying the costs to initially install these charging stations. Although, it appears boston is pushing the costs onto developers for new buildings.

articles.boston.com/2011-05-23/cars/29575115_1_electric-cars-gas-free-vehicles-nissan-leaf

Depending on your view, this isn't any different than any other infrastructure that is created to support a city - roads, trails, sidewalks, bridges, public transportation, sewers, water lines, etc.

[fairlycrazy23]

Gasoline has a much much higher energy density than current or any speculated future batteries.
Gasoline is good energy source when you need to be able to carry your energy source with you.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Do those electric cars have those really expensive batteries, too?

[marshabar1]

I'm scared of massive amounts of electricity gone wild.

Top 16 Dangers of Electric Cars

www.topfive.com/dangers-of-electric-cars.shtml

[Angel!]

May 25, 2011 16:20:05 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

Do those electric cars have those really expensive batteries, too?

They are getting cheaper as technology progresses, but they do have fairly expensive batteries, one of the reasons they are so expensive to buy. I wonder what the lifespan is supposed to be for the leaf battery.

[cme1201]

Jaws of life cannot be used on most electric cars as the entire car is an electrical pathway. Learned that at a Toyota Ride and Drive at the release of the Prius.

[EVT1]

May 25, 2011 16:01:32 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

Of course, those of us who do not portrait superiority or who are not smug, but have a firm grasp of markets and basic economics will quickly point out an astronomical rise in demand for electricity will push up the price of electricity.

It will push up supply as well. But I do think 57% of people will rethink their position down the road. Regardless of cost? How about $100/gallon? I think that would do it. I think $10/gallon would do it.

[Angel!]

Another thing that I know car companies are looking at is battery swapping. I think this will ultimately prove far more successful than battery charging because it makes long trips possible without having to wait for a battery charge. The idea is to make the battery small & light enough that you can go to a gas station & they will pop it out & replace it for a new battery & then you are on your way again. While the station then charges the battery & passes it along. This will also minimize the problem of the huge costs associated with having a car battery go bad. Gas stations will just have to purchase spare batteries to allow them to make the swap & then charge enough to cover the charge, the ultimate replacement cost, & a profit.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

May 25, 2011 16:20:31 GMT -5 @marshabar1 said:

I'm scared of massive amounts of electricity gone wild.

Top 16 Dangers of Electric Cars

www.topfive.com/dangers-of-electric-cars.shtml

Funny.

[EVT1]

May 25, 2011 16:27:21 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Jaws of life cannot be used on most electric cars as the entire car is an electrical pathway. Learned that at a Toyota Ride and Drive at the release of the Prius.

That's a load of crap.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 25, 2011 16:33:03 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Another thing that I know car companies are looking at is battery swapping. I think this will ultimately prove far more successful than battery charging because it makes long trips possible without having to wait for a battery charge. The idea is to make the battery small & light enough that you can go to a gas station & they will pop it out & replace it for a new battery & then you are on your way again. While the station then charges the battery & passes it along. This will also minimize the problem of the huge costs associated with having a car battery go bad. Gas stations will just have to purchase spare batteries to allow them to make the swap & then charge enough to cover the charge, the ultimate replacement cost, & a profit.

That would be a big step in the right direction.

Of course, the real 800 pound gorilla in the room is the generation of the electricity. Currently, most of our electricity comes from burning coal. The electric grid is old.

But the simplest thing you need to understand is this:

More demand for electricity = higher electricity rates IF we do nothing to change the supply.

It's fairly obvious, to me at least, that the government is going to be as big, or bigger an obstacle to generating electricity as they have been to increasing the supply of oil.

[pappyjohn99]

I wonder what the greenies will think about millions of nasty, dirty, acid filled batteries that will have to be dealt with when they are used up. NIMBY?

[marshabar1]

[Angel!]

May 25, 2011 16:40:53 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

May 25, 2011 16:27:21 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Jaws of life cannot be used on most electric cars as the entire car is an electrical pathway. Learned that at a Toyota Ride and Drive at the release of the Prius.

That's a load of crap.

I was thinking the same thing, but had nothing to back up my opinion.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 25, 2011 16:50:10 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

I wonder what the greenies will think about millions of nasty, dirty, acid filled batteries that will have to be dealt with when they are used up. NIMBY?

NIMBY? Try BANANA.

[cme1201]

May 25, 2011 16:40:53 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

May 25, 2011 16:27:21 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Jaws of life cannot be used on most electric cars as the entire car is an electrical pathway. Learned that at a Toyota Ride and Drive at the release of the Prius.

That's a load of crap.

Your traditional Jaws of life were first a cutting tool then a spreader, when Hybrids hit the road a new super insulated spreader/cutter had to be created, not every town has the resources to buy both as the equipment is expensive.

Duncan Interim Fire Chief Dayton Burnside said hybrid vehicles pose a major threat of electrocuting emergency workers if a hybrid vehicle is involved in an accident.

“There’s a whole bunch of new information involving these hybrid vehicles,” Burnside said. “It’s still really new to the fire department.”

The main threat comes via the main electric line that runs from the front of the vehicle to the rear where many hybrid vehicle batteries are stored, and even in some cases, the electric drive train is located. When emergency personnel have to use the jaws of life to cut open a vehicle, many times they will resort to cutting key structural areas around the driver so as to spread the car apart and remove the pinned person. The cutting portion is where the danger lies.

“The vehicle could still be energized,” Burnside said. “There are several high voltage cables running through the channels of the vehicles, much like a fuel line does.”

duncanbanner.com/local/x598335096/Hybrid-cars-pose-new-threat-to-emergency-personnel

[Angel!]

May 25, 2011 16:50:10 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

I wonder what the greenies will think about millions of nasty, dirty, acid filled batteries that will have to be dealt with when they are used up. NIMBY?

I think the batteries are now made to be recycled:

The battery’s outer casing is stripped off and the metal re-used in steel-making. Likewise the wires and electronic parts are removed and handled by specialist recovery firms. This leaves the battery cells, which are subjected to high-temperature treatment while held in a vacuum sealed container.

At 400ºC all the organic materials break down into a mixture of oil and water, which is removed and processed by a licensed water treatment company.

The heat process continues to 800ºC, after which what remains of the cells is exposed to hydrogen, which helps break the oxides down into metals.

This leaves a highly concentrated nickel alloy that’s suitable for use as a raw material for making new batteries, completing a neat manufacturing circle. Other metals recovered at the end of the process are suitable for use in making stainless and other specialised steels.

The environmental impact of the complete recycling process was fully addressed in Toyota’s life cycle assessment of new Prius: In terms of the car’s lifetime CO2 emissions, the full recycling process is far from being a “dirty” job - it’s responsible for only around 2% of the total.

[pappyjohn99]

Thanks Angel. I did not know this. Sounds expensive though. And we will need lots of natural gas for those ovens.

[EVT1]

May 25, 2011 16:50:10 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

I wonder what the greenies will think about millions of nasty, dirty, acid filled batteries that will have to be dealt with when they are used up. NIMBY?

What acid filled batteries? They are using dry cells.