3Mil High paying jobs leaving US permanently

[Opti]

From a MSN article:

By James C. Cooper, The Fiscal Times


The U.S. labor market has been looking stronger in recent months. Since jobs began to increase in early 2010, private-sector companies have added two million workers, with the overwhelming bulk of the gains coming from small businesses. So far this year, payroll increases have accelerated to 214,000 per month, the strongest four-month pace in five years.



But there’s a catch. The quality of the jobs the U.S. is creating right now in terms of pay, benefits, hours, and skills leaves a lot to be desired. The problem is not only the depth of the recession and the sluggishness of the recovery. It also reflects the changing structure of the U.S. economy, as more manufacturing operations shift to overseas locations, while service businesses, which often pay much less, take a more dominant role in job creation.



Previously high-paying jobs in manufacturing have gone the way of the Edsel. U.S. factories lost 3 million jobs from 2000 to 2004, jobs that did not return during the boom leading up to the recession, along with another 2.2 million from 2007 to 2010. Those are unlikely to come back, as well. Manufacturing jobs were 20 percent of private-sector payrolls in 1990, 15 percent in 2000, and just over 10 percent in April. Large multinational corporations have cut 2.9 million U.S. jobs over the past decade, while adding 2.4 million workers to their overseas operations.



Factory pay is now below average



More important, pay in manufacturing is not what it used to be. Hourly earnings of production and non-supervisory workers, which had held well above the private-sector average for decades, slipped below the average in 2006, and the ratio continues to trend gradually lower. In 2004, factory pay was about 3 percent above average. In April it was 2.4 percent below the $19.37-per-hour private-sector mark for production workers.



The recovery, so far, has generated a majority of lower paying jobs. Economists at UBS, who track payrolls in industries where hourly wages are above the overall average vs. sectors with pay below the average, say that job growth in low-wage industries has been generally faster since the recovery began in mid-2009. In particular, job gains in the retail-trade and leisure-and-hospitality sectors, where hourly pay is 32 percent and 43 percent, respectively, below the average for all private-sector employees, have accounted for 27 percent of this year’s job growth.







At the other end of the pay scale, and in addition to the 5.2 million jobs already lost, the recession wiped out nearly three million high-paying jobs in construction and finance, where average hourly pay is 11 percent and 20 percent, respectively, above the $22.95 average for all private-sector employees, which includes both production workers and management. Those jobs are not coming back any time soon, if ever. One bright spot has been professional and business services, including legal, accounting, computer systems design, and consulting. Jobs there typically pay 20 percent higher than average, and they have accounted for 30 percent of all private-sector job growth over the past year.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

The US economy has been moving away from manufacturing jobs(either skilled or no-low skill) to knowledge based jobs for decades.
Anyone longing for the good old days, the auld lange syne syndrome, needs to snap out of it. The US is 40 to 50 years removed from the lunch pail, sweaty work clothes workforce.
The biggest growing job sector is knowledge workers, that is people with higher education.

[whoisjohngalt]

Even though I can't stand the fact that 90% of things I see in stores are manufactured in China, I have to say that people here have gotten lazy and more demanding. Work ethic is practically non-existent anymore. So, what do we expect??

Lena

[Havoc]

May 25, 2011 8:22:00 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

So, what do we expect??

Lena

Indeed .....

[Phoenix84]

May 25, 2011 8:16:02 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

The US economy has been moving away from manufacturing jobs(either skilled or no-low skill) to knowledge based jobs for decades.
Anyone longing for the good old days, the auld lange syne syndrome, needs to snap out of it. The US is 40 to 50 years removed from the lunch pail, sweaty work clothes workforce.
The biggest growing job sector is knowledge workers, that is people with higher education.

SF is exactly right. You can view the numbers yourself.

www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_103.htm

The data was last updated in December, so it's pretty recent.

It seems those with medical, chemistry, and biological education will do very well.

[svwashout]

Quoting a recent NFAP study--
"preventing the entry of H-1B visa holders skilled immigrants, and family-sponsored immigrants would shut off the flow of a key segment of America’s next generation of scientists and engineers - the children of immigrants"
mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/05/from-executive-summary-of-new-study.html
So is this really is a choice between importing future technologists vs exporting their jobs? Traditionally these have been higher paying but we don't know what happens in the future.

[whoisjohngalt]

When a man can't find a job that pays enough for a decent living I don't blame them for losing their work ethic.

That kind of philosophy irks me to no end. You ETHICS shouldn't matter on anything except your character.

Also, EVERYONE thinks they worth a lot. I've never met a person who thought they were overpaid for what they did. But I did hear PLENTY whining about how "well, my mgr makes 5 times what I make" and "they don't pay me enough" and "I work sooo hard". Boo hoo - cry me a river. You don't like it? Go do something else. Until we are dead, we still have choices.

What is it with people thinking that EVERYONE owes them something.

sharing of wealth

Please show me where is it written that there has to be ANY wealth sharing???

If more people spend less time worrying about what "rich" should share with them and more time concentrating on how to achieve something, we would all be better off

Lena

[Deleted]

" the recession wiped out nearly three million high-paying jobs in construction and finance, where average hourly pay is 11 percent and 20 percent, respectively"

Many of these job WILL come back as the real estate market recovers. People need to be in the area to build houses, sell and appraise them. While you can take a loan app over the internet or fabricate stuff overseas you still need people on the ground to make it all happen.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Many of these job WILL come back as the real estate market recovers. People need to be in the area to build houses, sell and appraise them. While you can take a loan app over the internet or fabricate stuff overseas you still need people on the ground to make it all happen

Unfortunately, those good paying construction jobs are being filled by Mexicans. Just ask any black out of work plasterer/sheet rock worker in southern Cal or Arizona.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Really, how would you feel working for nothing as a middle aged family man trying to take care of your family with ever higher prices for everything.

The problem of these jobs being off shored is that the fed govt has essentially forced these jobs to be off shored due to excessive employment regulations. Dealing with all the nonsense from the govt, eats up too many resources. It is easier to just out source jobs that can be done overseas and deal with the unintelligible English.
Right, wrong or indifferent.

[midjd]

Most of my father's family lives in Eastern KY, where coal mining is huge. And quite a few of the older generation have died in the mines (or died of black lung at age 40). They might have something to say about those "excessive" employment regulations. Yes, there is a lot of red tape - and I am all for streamlining things - but a relatively safe, hazard-free workplace should not be a luxury.

[Gardening Grandma]

May 25, 2011 11:01:53 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

Really, how would you feel working for nothing as a middle aged family man trying to take care of your family with ever higher prices for everything.

The problem of these jobs being off shored is that the fed govt has essentially forced these jobs to be off shored due to excessive employment regulations. Dealing with all the nonsense from the govt, eats up too many resources. It is easier to just out source jobs that can be done overseas and deal with the unintelligible English.
Right, wrong or indifferent.

BS. The corporations that outsource jobs are getting tax breaks. What the gov't should do is eliminate those tax breaks. "Excessive regulations" is a catchall phrase meaning corporations can't ignore safety issues.

[whoisjohngalt]

Really, how would you feel working for nothing as a middle aged family man trying to take care of your family with ever higher prices for everything.

If you are asking me, you are talking to the wrong wrong person. "I" would do what I have to do or do nothing but stop whining about it. With all the shortcomings and all, US still has A LOT of options and choices for people. Unfortunately, people have been too blinded with "you deserve it" mentality and completely forgot that it could be much worse. And no, I am not even referring to starving people in Africa.

Like I said, instead of focusing so much on how evil "rich" have so much, may be concentrate on what "I" can do to get there. Or.... STOP WHINING!!!

Lena

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

BS. The corporations that outsource jobs are getting tax breaks. What the gov't should do is eliminate those tax breaks. "Excessive regulations" is a catchall phrase meaning corporations can't ignore safety issues.

No they are not. Is this like the govt subsidies everyone says the oil industry gets?

Heavy handed bureacrats, lawsuits, needing to maintain HR compliance staff, harrassment, wasting time, etc.,etc. Just easier to off shore.

[The J]

Really, how would you feel working for nothing as a middle aged family man trying to take care of your family with ever higher prices for everything.

Either I would feel like a failure for not positioning myself to take care of my family, or I would feel like I needed to work harder to take care of them (or both). I wouldn't be stupid enough to think "I don't make enough to take care of my family, so the solution is clearly to do less (either in terms of quantity, quality or both) work!"

[Opti]

What concerns me is the number of low paid service jobs appears to be increasing far more than the knowledge worker jobs. H1B Visas continue to make inroads on the high paying knowledge worker jobs and a fair number of immigrants appear to be in the low paid service jobs as well.

Copying info from the link didn't work well, but I noticed two low paid service positions in healthcare had
the third and fourth positions for percent increase in the
job growth chart. I only saw 1 position in the service category that didn't pay very low or low wages.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Either I would feel like a failure for not positioning myself to take care of my family, or I would feel like I needed to work harder to take care of them (or both). I wouldn't be stupid enough to think "I don't make enough to take care of my family, so the solution is clearly to do less (either in terms of quantity, quality or both) work!"

That is where having a college education and keeping oneself up to date comes in handy. The value of a college degree(s) is priceless.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 25, 2011 8:16:02 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

The US economy has been moving away from manufacturing jobs(either skilled or no-low skill) to knowledge based jobs for decades.
Anyone longing for the good old days, the auld lange syne syndrome, needs to snap out of it. The US is 40 to 50 years removed from the lunch pail, sweaty work clothes workforce.
The biggest growing job sector is knowledge workers, that is people with higher education.

The service sector is also growing- but as you've said, it's generally knowledge-based services. People that hear, "Service Sector" and think maid service and restaurants should think doctor, lawyer, accountant, etc.

We also have a growing investor class.

We're going to always have a need for people on the ground to do thinks like I do-- landlords, or if you prefer-- property managers.

We're always going to have maids, cooks, landscapers, car detailing, etc.-- just don't expect to be able to live a prosperous life doing these things. Managing the people that do-- you'll do a little bit better. Running the businesses that provide these services...you'll do much better.

People ought to think in terms of owning their own business, or at the very least they should think of themselves as their own entity, as self-employed.

[Deleted]

"Unfortunately, those good paying construction jobs are being filled by Mexicans. Just ask any black out of work plasterer/sheet rock worker in southern Cal or Arizona."

Not sure how this gets turned into a racist discussion. As long as I've lived (almost 50 years) Mexico has bordered CA and AZ. 160 years ago CA and AZ were a part of Mexico. Both states have always had a problem with undocumented workers but not just Mexicans. We have Central and South Americans, Chinese and Irish as well.

The Black population in CA and AZ is much lower than the US average, I thought it was around 9% but after I double-checked the US census bureau quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/04000.html I was surprised to see it at 6 and 4.5 percent respectively. So I don't see how your statement makes any sense. Most Blacks migrated to CA and AZ via the military, not construction or agriculture.

[phil5185]

There is no reason for the payment of the money that corporate wheels are sucking out of the economy. Even some of the powers in the economy, not dems, oh surprise, are acknowledging that the pay disparity is nuts.

pat - most of us recognize the pay disparity and dislike it. But, annoying as it is, it has little to do with the economy. You're an account - take a look at the math. A 100,000 worker corporation, the annual payroll is about $5,000,000,000. If the CEO gets $10,000,000, that still leaves $4,990,000,000 for the workers, ie they get over 99% of Payroll whether the boss gets $10M or $50M. Annoying - but it simply is not a measurable part of corporate profit/loss, a reason why jobs go offshore, or any of the other urban legends.

[Deleted]

Time to evolve into 3 earner families by changing marriage laws to allow threesomes. This will allow lower earning individuals to still form quality households.

[973beachbum]

May 25, 2011 12:46:06 GMT -5 @mmc said:

Time to evolve into 3 earner families by changing marriage laws to allow threesomes. This will allow lower earning individuals to still form quality households.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I was surprised to see it at 6 and 4.5 percent respectively. So I don't see how your statement makes any sense. Most Blacks migrated to CA and AZ via the military, not construction or agriculture.

I'm shocked that it's even that high in AZ. I swear when I was growing up it was maybe 1% or so. You almost never saw black people. We had one black family in my entire elementary/middle school.

[stats45]

#4

We discussed this in another thread. You are confusing the rate of growth with absolute growth.

The rate of growth in many professions requiring a college degree is very high, but the overwhelming majority of jobs created in the US will not require a college degree.

[Deleted]

"I swear when I was growing up it was maybe 1% or so. You almost never saw black people. We had one black family in my entire elementary/middle school."

Yeah, after living in Carefree for 6 years I caught myself staring at a Black guy in the market. He was the first non-Basha (only saw one of those too) employee I saw in Carefree. I was embarrassed. I'd like to think I grew up color blind. One of the coolest things my mom did was have my brother and I join a track team in Southeast San Diego where we were the only White kids. I believe every Caucasian child should have an experience like that.

But back to your comment; think about how many military bases are in AZ; I'm sure that's where you will find the largest Black populations.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Not sure how this gets turned into a racist discussion.

It did not get turned into a racial discussion. We can turn it into an illegal immigration discussion if you like.
I am sure out of work blacks who are plasterers and sheet rock workers are not happy about this.

Just for the forum members who were educated in the public school system, I tossed in the part about black construction workers just to point out that minorities are also being negatively affected by illegal immigration.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I am sure out of work blacks who are plasterers and sheet rock workers are not happy about this.

In the states you mentioned those jobs are done by whites, native americans, and legal mexicans. They've also had a history of fairly large mexican populations for over a hundred years. It's not some new thing that AZ and CA are just learning to deal with.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

In the states you mentioned those jobs are done by whites, native americans, and legal mexicans. They've also had a history of fairly large mexican populations for over a hundred years. It's not some new thing that AZ and CA are just learning to deal with.

They are also being overrun by illegals.

[Deleted]

"It dates back to the days of segregation when everything north of Van Buren was segregated."

Yeah, I think I recall that too. I suspect that many of those folks' grandparents may have relocated because of jobs with the railroad.


The other weird thing about SF's post is the term "Plasterer". Most of the housing stock in CA and AZ was built after WWII. With very few exceptions, both residential and commercial construction is built with sheet rock and not lath and plaster. A Plastering is truly a craft. Installing Sheetrock by "Rockers" and taping and mudding over it isn't that difficult a skill to learn, I've done some myself. So if SF actually knew any Black Plasterers in CA or AZ I would think they would have gone out of business because of a change in construction technology.

I do agree with the comment in post #18 about keeping up to date with your skills. I don't think everyone has to go to college (both DH and I have had careers in fields outside our fields of study) but you do need to pay attention to what's going on in your field basically, evolve or die.

And while I disagree with Paul that everyone should be self employed I do think it's important to think of yourself as "Me Inc." and take responsibility for continuing education in your field and keeping yourself relevant in the workplace.

DH is a great example. Although only 52 he has worked for the same company for 24 years (he actually left twice and was hired back). He's gone through two acquisitions and at least two mergers. I guess you could even say we "off-shored ourselves" by moving to Germany. He has survived and gets paid really well because 1) he keeps up on technology and has reinvented himself in several different roles 2) is willing to take classes to learn more 3) In spite of being a "techie" he's a pretty good net-worker both up and down the food chain 4) our willingness to relocate.

[zibazinski]

My Mom takes section 8 tenants. One of hers, a black woman, told her it had taken years to get on Housing because of so many Hispanics so it DOES impact.