Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 25, 2011 15:49:16 GMT -5
My Mom takes section 8 tenants. One of hers, a black woman, told her it had taken years to get on Housing because of so many Hispanics so it DOES impact. But AZ has had a high hispanic and native american population the entire time it's been a state. It's not a recent development that's displacing an established black population.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 15:49:27 GMT -5
"They are also being overrun by illegals"
Actually there are far fewer illegal crossings now than before the recession. SF, I grew up in San Diego in the early 60s and 70s. There were plenty of illegals then. They would camp in the canyons near my folks' house on their way to LA. The economies of both States would collapse without cheap labor. Do you think my brother's kids would do some of the work these folks do; e.g. pick crops for 8 hours, do roof work in 100 degree weather or wash dishes in a restaurant even as a summer job? "No way, that's Mexican work".
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 25, 2011 21:10:37 GMT -5
Explain the tax breaks they receive to offshore jobs. I haven't heard of that corporate tax break.
It used to take skill to perform the manufacturing tasks in the US. Automation has reduced the skill necessary in most of these professions. And the wages reflect that decrease in skill necessary.
The US had a manufacturing monopoly post WWII with Europe and Japan in ruins. US manufacturing workers lived it up on inflated incomes, unrealistic vacations [shutting down for an entire month like the country of France], bloated benefits and strangled the golden goose with their bare hands. This trend is visible for at least 4 decades.
Meanwhile, other countries caught up and some others emerged to be better than the US in manufacturing.
The US manufacturing dollars were too busy paying for the employees and their inflated wages and post retirement benefits to invest in new technology that would keep it competitive this century.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on May 26, 2011 6:12:23 GMT -5
Explain the tax breaks they receive to offshore jobs. I haven't heard of that corporate tax break.
I think these are like these non-subsidy, subsidies paid to oil companies.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 26, 2011 7:33:17 GMT -5
Explain the tax breaks they receive to offshore jobs. I haven't heard of that corporate tax break.I think these are like these non-subsidy, subsidies paid to oil companies. I took this in a completely different direction. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I was thinking of a company that makes and sells widgets. If they are selling widgets to another country they probably pay a huge tariff. The US tariffs are really low in regards to other countries for imports. So if the company off shores it's production and then imports to the US they would save on those tariffs. They also might save money on payroll taxes and health ins. Some other countries have much lower payroll taxes and they have national healthcare or no expectation of any benefits like that at all where in the US it is an expected cost of hiring a worker. I could be wrong but that is what I had thought that meant.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on May 26, 2011 7:59:16 GMT -5
I could be wrong but that is what I had thought that meant.
Yes, I get your post. But none of those are tax breaks.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 26, 2011 8:17:16 GMT -5
I could be wrong but that is what I had thought that meant. Yes, I get your post. But none of those are tax breaks. I agree but I am not sure that people actually make that distinction when they think about these things. Truthfully except for a small percent the thought of losing a job is very scary and personal. the thought of losing your whole industry is terrifying.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on May 26, 2011 8:23:05 GMT -5
I agree but I am not sure that people actually make that distinction when they think about these things. Truthfully except for a small percent the thought of losing a job is very scary and personal. the thought of losing your whole industry is terrifying.
Yeah, I agree. Political demogaguery, confusing the issue merely misleads the masses who do not know any better. It is astounding how easily mislead the bulk of the population can be. This leads to and produces really bad public policy that exacerbates the situation
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on May 26, 2011 8:51:10 GMT -5
{ The biggest growing job sector is knowledge workers, that is people with higher education } This statement always comes up in discussions like this. Technically, it is correct, but the reality is the MAJORITY OF JOBS created in the US, according to the BLS will NOT require a college degree. www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_104.htmAND, 7 of the top 10 wages are listed as low to very low, so more and more people are going to qualify for social services. Is that the country we want for the future?
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 27, 2011 20:20:08 GMT -5
Taking the link you supplied:
Total jobs added in 10 year period - 7,325,000
by income quartile - 1st quartile - 1,771,100, or 24.2% [VH] 2nd quartile - 1,523,100 or 20.8% [H] 3rd quartile - 2,131,400 or 29.1% [L] 4th quartile - 1,899,400 or 25.9% [VL]
45% in top half, 55% in bottom half but 74% of jobs added to the top 75% of earners.
Seems like a fairly even distribution of jobs by income quartiles.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on May 27, 2011 22:24:31 GMT -5
Well, you can work the numbers like that, but I would look at it as 55% of the jobs being created are lower paying, low skilled, and certainly don't require a college education. Definitely not the knowledge based positions that are supposedly the future of the US, per many who post on these boards.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 27, 2011 22:41:07 GMT -5
Is that a bad thing that we're creating jobs for those without college degrees? Under 40% of the population has a college degree, so it'd only be natural that we create jobs that largely resemble those dynamics.
I prefer to look at it that 40% of the jobs that are high paying don't require a college degree. 60% of the high paying jobs do require a college degree. That's pretty good, in my opinion. The top 17.5% of those that do not go to college can become high earners in the US if they work hard in their careers.
It's not a surprise that the lower paying jobs tend to go to those without an education. I don't think there is an issue with that. Otherwise, we'd have a number of people complaining that there aren't any good paying jobs for college grads who have taken on a lot of debt for an education...oh wait...
I guess there is no pleasing people.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on May 27, 2011 22:58:42 GMT -5
former, I am just too tired to deal with any more percentages tonight! ![](http://us.social.s-msn.com/s/images/emoticons/77_77.gif) Just spent the past two days rebuilding our bath and putting in a new tub surround, with taping, mudding, priming and painting still to go. Thank heaven DH talked me out of tiling.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 28, 2011 16:54:53 GMT -5
You know who SHOULD take those jobs that the illegals take? Those on welfare. Work or no check. Why should welfare recipients get to stay home and collect bennies for doing so why the rest of the working class stiffs get up to go to work to support themselves and them? Welfare people can live ten to a house until they decide that they have had enough of that and get off their hind ends and get a degree or certificate or job skill that pays them better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 12:06:05 GMT -5
"You know who SHOULD take those jobs that the illegals take? Those on welfare. Work or no check. Why should welfare recipients get to stay home and collect bennies for doing so why the rest of the working class stiffs get up to go to work to support themselves and them? Welfare people can live ten to a house until they decide that they have had enough of that and get off their hind ends and get a degree or certificate or job skill that pays them better." ![](http://us.social.s-msn.com/s/images/emoticons/thumbs_up.gif) Exactly. As well as the long-term unemployed. Between our entitlement attitude and the "system" there is very little incentive to work these manual jobs. Used to be pride that would make you work these jobs or take on 2 or 3 jobs. But why work like a dog if welfare or extended unemployment lets you collect a check for doing nothing. It's almost like you're stupid for not working the system! Without the incentives to not work, the jobs market wouldn't be a whole lot different than the housing market e.g. if your house hasn't sold in 6 months maybe you should lower the price? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 29, 2011 12:11:08 GMT -5
My tenant won't work because unemployment pays him the same wage he would get working. Major annoying. He wants 50k to sit behind a desk and the market is only willing to pay him 30k to work and he can sit home, collect 2k a month in unemployment and work under the table.
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maraqxa
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Post by maraqxa on May 29, 2011 12:30:52 GMT -5
My tenant won't work because unemployment pays him the same wage he would get working. Major annoying. He wants 50k to sit behind a desk and the market is only willing to pay him 30k to work and he can sit home, collect 2k a month in unemployment and work under the table. I don't blame him.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 29, 2011 12:32:12 GMT -5
The other weird thing about SF's post is the term "Plasterer". Most of the housing stock in CA and AZ was built after WWII. With very few exceptions, both residential and commercial construction is built with sheet rock and not lath and plaster. A Plastering is truly a craft. Installing Sheetrock by "Rockers" and taping and mudding over it isn't that difficult a skill to learn, I've done some myself. So if SF actually knew any Black Plasterers in CA or AZ I would think they would have gone out of business because of a change in construction technology.
Plastering is still being done, just not the exact same way. Most plasters are now a Veneer plaster much like a drywall mud except it requires a better understanding of visuals to apply Veneer plaster, a steadier hand as it were to keep the imperfections from showing up in indoor work.
Lath and Plaster is used mainly now in stucco and exterior insulation and finishing systems. It is used today like it was 60 years ago, lath to create a way to hold the plaster to a slick system. Today you will see more Lath and Plaster systems on the outside not the inside of houses, business and schools.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 29, 2011 12:41:20 GMT -5
I don't either but it shouldn't be any easier to sit around and collect unemployment forever anymore than it should be to collect welfare forever. Welfare should require monthly drug testing and school/job certification classes and if you have kids on it, something from your kids schools saying they attend regularly and are well-behaved. If not, no check this month. Same with food stamps. Food baskets with a weeks worth of food in them and vouchers for fresh stuff. None of this potato chip/cookie crap. You stand in line and get your basket. If you have nothing else to do but stand around getting in trouble or making more babies, maybe its time you were kept busy either standing in a line, picking up trash or both.
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maraqxa
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Post by maraqxa on May 29, 2011 12:49:36 GMT -5
I don't either but it shouldn't be any easier to sit around and collect unemployment forever anymore than it should be to collect welfare forever. Welfare should require monthly drug testing and school/job certification classes and if you have kids on it, something from your kids schools saying they attend regularly and are well-behaved. If not, no check this month. Same with food stamps. Food baskets with a weeks worth of food in them and vouchers for fresh stuff. None of this potato chip/cookie crap. You stand in line and get your basket. If you have nothing else to do but stand around getting in trouble or making more babies, maybe its time you were kept busy either standing in a line, picking up trash or both. Unemployment and welfare are 2 different things. I didn't agree with Welfare for the longest time but I think without it the gap between rich and poor would be wider and crime would be worse. What we need are good programs to transition these people from welfare to working, to contribute to the country instead of taking but I also don't agree with controlling every little thing they do with the welfare money as they will just find a way to go around it and where would that take us? Nowhere! At the end of the day, we can blame the people all we want but as long as the govt does not address it then the abuse will continue. It is just like drugs, if the people keep consuming then it will keep coming no matter what we do.
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maraqxa
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Post by maraqxa on May 29, 2011 12:51:59 GMT -5
" something from your kids saying they are well-behaved" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Seriously?? Maybe we should apply that to everyone and those that don't behave just don't go to public schools.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 29, 2011 13:51:01 GMT -5
That would be a true blessing to those who want to learn. Public schools are just the dumping ground now and it's not right. I think you would find that when effort has to be made, there are a lot who just won't make it. That decreases the rolls.
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