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Post by marshabar1 on May 24, 2011 18:54:58 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 24, 2011 22:56:09 GMT -5
What a comparison, Paul. Realist vs. idealist... Man vs. boy, more like. right back at you for this. That's exactly what it is.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 24, 2011 23:34:01 GMT -5
The man had a very good military career and is a good politician too, ..., no one is saying that is not true.
His late brother, "Yoni", was one of those like Patton, McCarther, Eisenhower, A Murphy, Churchill, Begin, Washington...all in one, who knows what he could have accomplished.
To compare the two , the PM, Obama, because service records...why are you being so idiotic.
It's been a while since we had a POTUS who served in the Military and the last one we had , the record still is not clear as to his accomplishments.
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Post by lakhota on May 25, 2011 2:26:20 GMT -5
VIDEO: AIPAC Attendees Say Jews Who Criticize Israel Are Traitors, Demand Loyalty To Netanyahu Today, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke before the U.S. Congress. Despite once again rebuking the long-standing U.S. policy that Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders with mutally agreed land swaps, Netanyahu was repeatedly applauded by Members of Congress (even moreso than Obama). One reason the Israeli government has been able to secure such steady support for its policies, even when they conflict with U.S. policies, is due to the efforts of American Israeli Political Action Committee (AIPAC). AIPAC’s lobbying network is considered one of the nation’s finest, and every year it holds an annual convention in Washington, D.C. that is heavily attended by members of Congress, usually drawing at least half of the members of the Senate, for example. Over the past few days, ThinkProgress attended the AIPAC conference here in Washington, D.C. We interviewed a number of attendees and asked them what they thought about Netanyahu so publicly rebuking the United States and what they think about progressive Jewish advocates who are more critical of the Israeli government. Attendees told us that they think it’s best for all Jews to simply back Netanyahu no matter what his policies do to Palestinians or to the state of Israel, that if Israel gave up land it would face genocide like the Native Americans, and some even compared progressive, anti-occupation, pro-Israel Jewish activists to traitors. Watch a video compilation of these remarks: Thankfully, Americans who want to resolve the Middle East conflict and help establish a just resolution that includes two safe, secure, prosperous, and free Palestinian and Israeli states do not have to support a hardline organization like AIPAC. Groups like J Street, Americans for Peace Now, and Jewish Voice for Peace offer alternatives. thinkprogress.org/2011/05/24/aipac-demand-loyalty/J Street: jstreet.org/Americans for Peace Now: peacenow.org/Jewish Voice for Peace: jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
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Post by lakhota on May 25, 2011 2:28:58 GMT -5
Oh goodie, this is what we're dealing with. A bunch of Nutanyahoos.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 25, 2011 7:28:39 GMT -5
Oh goodie, this is what we're dealing with. A bunch of Nutanyahoos. "Nutanyahoos." "Attendees told us that they think it’s best for all Jews to simply back Netanyahu no matter what his policies do to Palestinians or to the state of Israel, that if Israel gave up land it would face genocide like the Native Americans, and some even compared progressive, anti-occupation, pro-Israel Jewish activists to traitors." ------------------------------------------------------------ "Nutanyahoos." The day you get all Israeli's with their feelings close to the surface on all things political to follow as sheep. Don't misunderstand their feelings about open to talks and interest in seeing what is proposed not also being concerned about security of the State, still # 1 on their minds, but are willing to see what can be worked out to POSSIBLE end this BS ,. However, so much rests with the PALASTINIANS and I question their real committment, especially now as they are trying to get their political house in order, I don't see it, think it's to soon now, IMHO. To be constantly playing guards over others really is not their , Israelis thing, and they know it is unhealthy, but still rests with the Palastinians as to how seriouse they are in gaining their own State and what they are willing to give up, to continue to dream for what they scream for, not going to happen. Same here with this guy, undestand PM concerns, however, am hoping it is mostly public talk and willing to try and work out a settlement that he can live with. To be 100 % guaranteed.. never happen, so am hoping , we'll see. Nope , don't feel like a traitor for having questions, ideas. Those who suggest that? Don't know crap.
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Post by privateinvestor on May 25, 2011 8:25:41 GMT -5
I LOVE Benjamin Netanyahu
I doubt that the Palestinians love Netanyahu who gave litte to entice Palestinians back to the bargaining table, and for the first time said Israel would have to give up some West Bank settlements which would anger many in Israel...
I think Netanyahu just wanted to tell congress again that Israelis retain strong backing of the US despite the frosty relationship with Obama who is seen by Netanyahu as being clueless about Israel vs Palestine.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 25, 2011 8:29:56 GMT -5
I LOVE Benjamin Netanyahu I never would have guessed that..welcome back
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Post by privateinvestor on May 25, 2011 8:37:28 GMT -5
I don't see how Israel can have peace as long as Hamas wants to wipe the state of Israel off the map in the Middle East and why would Israelis agree to some settelements that would be beyond Israel borders as suggested by Obama...
Way, way above my pay grade but I seriously doubt that we will see a peace agreement with Palestine. Two states for two peoples....or Hamas for peace??
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 25, 2011 8:56:07 GMT -5
To be included in the negotiations, Hamas would have to change their charter, if they are a active membe iof the coalition.
Who knows, they may win the election scheduled to be in October now.
A scenario, Hamas wins election in October,. Abbas is now what, still the point man in negotiations or the current PM of Fatah is , who Hamas wants out, to Westernized for them, and Abbas too wants out, even though has done a great job so far in West bank. However , to populer, makes him, Abbas , less important, and if Hamas doesn't change the charter, then how could Abbas negotiate with the Israeli's, basically representing, not Fatah, but Hamas who still have all the bad things aginst Israel in their charter, in that scenario, Fatah would be out of power, minority party, it just couldn't happen, being able to negotiations.
That might be confusing to you...but it is a scenario that could happen.
I don't expect much in negotiations till after the trying to get recognition for a Palastinian State at the UN, in September , and if US vetoes that, that leaves what, and not till the elections in Palastinian areas, West bank and Gaza in October.
Palastinians have to get their house in order, possible Obama's speech to soon, but with what is happening here, Middle East, possible he felt he HAD to say something now.
Now that IS beyond my pay scale, decisions like that...now your talking political , considerations, inter national relations between States and Countries, don't think the Saudi's who are really P at Obama and us stoll, over Mubarak ..also being a player here.
Way beyond my pay scale and all who post here, most definitly.
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txbo
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Post by txbo on May 25, 2011 9:28:43 GMT -5
Poor American Indians, robbed of their ancestral lands, herded onto reservations, guarded by an armed military, additional land stolen as the invaders grew in numbers, treated like scum, and told to love it because you have no other options. Loudly applauded by congress for the elimination of the savages. Moreover, some wonder why the Indians fought back.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 10:08:03 GMT -5
Poor American Indians, robbed of their ancestral lands, herded onto reservations, guarded by an armed military, additional land stolen as the invaders grew in numbers, treated like scum, and told to love it because you have no other options. Loudly applauded by congress for the elimination of the savages. Moreover, some wonder why the Indians fought back. I'm not going to defend our country's indefensible actions in many instances. But you're telling only half the story. The indians are not all innocent folks who were sitting around minding their own business when the Europeans arrived and decided to kill them all. I think the best thing we can do for them now is to leave them alone. Cut all government "aid" which is destroying them, get out of the way and let the Indian nations be truly independent nations instead of wards of the state.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 10:11:53 GMT -5
I thought the most salient point BiBi made as far as negotiations go is that Israel is NOT going to negotiate with the Palestinian equivalent of Al Qaeda. If the Palestinians want peace, they have to negotiate in good faith. They have to abandon the long held idea that they are going to overrun Isreal with the children and grandchildren of the Palestinian occupants in 1948, they have to abandon the idea of eliminating Israel, and killing all the Jews-- and currently that is the charter of Hamas which they have chosen. This is not choosing peace. It's choosing war. So, there's no reason Israel should, or would ever consider them a good faith partner for peace. The ball is in the court of the Palestinians. They should, for once, choose wisely.
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Post by marshabar1 on May 25, 2011 10:20:04 GMT -5
I thought the most salient point BiBi made as far as negotiations go is that Israel is NOT going to negotiate with the Palestinian equivalent of Al Qaeda. If the Palestinians want peace, they have to negotiate in good faith. They have to abandon the long held idea that they are going to overrun Isreal with the children and grandchildren of the Palestinian occupants in 1948, they have to abandon the idea of eliminating Israel, and killing all the Jews-- and currently that is the charter of Hamas which they have chosen. This is not choosing peace. It's choosing war. So, there's no reason Israel should, or would ever consider them a good faith partner for peace. The ball is in the court of the Palestinians. They should, for once, choose wisely. Unfortunately their religion makes of them a subservient people. You will notice Catholic nations are also prone to dictatorship. Unless the people grow a spine and stand up to tyrants they will MAKE NO DECISION FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR CHILDREN. The choices are made by the biggest thugs. Period.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 25, 2011 10:27:18 GMT -5
I thought the most salient point BiBi made as far as negotiations go is that Israel is NOT going to negotiate with the Palestinian equivalent of Al Qaeda. If the Palestinians want peace, they have to negotiate in good faith. They have to abandon the long held idea that they are going to overrun Isreal with the children and grandchildren of the Palestinian occupants in 1948, they have to abandon the idea of eliminating Israel, and killing all the Jews-- and currently that is the charter of Hamas which they have chosen. This is not choosing peace. It's choosing war. So, there's no reason Israel should, or would ever consider them a good faith partner for peace. The ball is in the court of the Palestinians. They should, for once, choose wisely. There I agree with you, and right now the Palastinians have a lot on their plate to settle. If in October, if they hold their elections and choose Hamas , and Hamas does not retreat from their stated goals toward the State of israel, in their charter, then nothing happens, even if representatives from Hamas are not active in the negotiations, all final decisions will be made by them. If Abbas is the one sent to negotiate, as a head of a minority party, {Fatah, they would have lost } can't be acceptable.. Now if they drop those parts of the charter that are not acceptable to Israel, well, possible different story.. Why I question the timing of Obama's speech but I also brought up a possible reason for it, a scenario of why.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 10:32:24 GMT -5
The leaders of Hamas are terrorists. Al Qaeda can't simply change their charter and be forgiven. Neither can Hamas.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 10:32:58 GMT -5
In other words, Hamas can never be a legitimate political party. As in never.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 10:35:24 GMT -5
VIDEO: AIPAC Attendees Say Jews Who Criticize Israel Are Traitors, Demand Loyalty To Netanyahu Today, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke before the U.S. Congress. Despite once again rebuking the long-standing U.S. policy that Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders with mutally agreed land swaps, Netanyahu was repeatedly applauded by Members of Congress (even moreso than Obama). One reason the Israeli government has been able to secure such steady support for its policies, even when they conflict with U.S. policies, is due to the efforts of American Israeli Political Action Committee (AIPAC). AIPAC’s lobbying network is considered one of the nation’s finest, and every year it holds an annual convention in Washington, D.C. that is heavily attended by members of Congress, usually drawing at least half of the members of the Senate, for example. Over the past few days, ThinkProgress attended the AIPAC conference here in Washington, D.C. We interviewed a number of attendees and asked them what they thought about Netanyahu so publicly rebuking the United States and what they think about progressive Jewish advocates who are more critical of the Israeli government. Attendees told us that they think it’s best for all Jews to simply back Netanyahu no matter what his policies do to Palestinians or to the state of Israel, that if Israel gave up land it would face genocide like the Native Americans, and some even compared progressive, anti-occupation, pro-Israel Jewish activists to traitors. Watch a video compilation of these remarks: Thankfully, Americans who want to resolve the Middle East conflict and help establish a just resolution that includes two safe, secure, prosperous, and free Palestinian and Israeli states do not have to support a hardline organization like AIPAC. Groups like J Street, Americans for Peace Now, and Jewish Voice for Peace offer alternatives. thinkprogress.org/2011/05/24/aipac-demand-loyalty/J Street: jstreet.org/Americans for Peace Now: peacenow.org/Jewish Voice for Peace: jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ ALL the groups you cited are far left, George Soros-backed groups. Since you seem to do so little of your own homework, I'm not going to back up my claims. You are. I'll get you started: www.discoverthenetworks.org <<< when you get ther, plug in the names of your groups.
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Post by marshabar1 on May 25, 2011 10:39:13 GMT -5
Poor American Indians, robbed of their ancestral lands, herded onto reservations, guarded by an armed military, additional land stolen as the invaders grew in numbers, treated like scum, and told to love it because you have no other options. Loudly applauded by congress for the elimination of the savages. Moreover, some wonder why the Indians fought back. In doing genealogical research I have decided for myself that as far as my people are concerned it was a very good thing that the United States did in terms of taking control of the southwest. Read documents and diaries written by Spaniards from the late 1500's on in what is now New Mexico and you may come away with a different idea about the nobility of the native inhabitants of that area. They slaved each other constantly and death wasn't good enough for an enemy. Endless variations in the song of pain were cultivated and relished. I love the USA in a new way since researching my own family tree, and I thank God for her in a whole new way. The opportunity to thrive is there but the culture prohibits it in the same way the culture of the Palestinians keeps them from getting real.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 10:48:24 GMT -5
It's the NEW Hamas!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 25, 2011 10:48:55 GMT -5
The leaders of Hamas are terrorists. Al Qaeda can't simply change their charter and be forgiven. Neither can Hamas. There I disagree with you. If they remove that part from their charter, what ever their personal feelings are, and they are the party in power, then they are in charge, they continue their attacks and terror , then your in a State of war. The young people, the majority, may not care for the Israeli's but they do not want the repercussions of a war. Hamas would have the responsibility to stop individuals from attacking Israel if a agreement was signed, not to support or honor those who did the acts. Other wise Israel would take actions. If Fatah wins election, settles with the Israelis, they would be responsible to keep the peace and go after hamas if they continued the attacks, it would be the State against a private Army, a militia. Israel ran across that problem in 1948, when they took ou the Irgun, under Begin and the smaller group, the Stern Gang. No private armys, militias allowed, only one military force, at the time the haganah, now the IDF, and if they didn't take action, there would be no way to defend Hamas on the world stage, if Israel took action against them. Your thinking I believe these people have to like each other, that is not true. For 33 years there has been peace between Egypt and Israel, and the Egyptian people in the whole still hate the Israeli's and I am sure many in the Military feel the same way. It's not easy, but it's doable, if parties want to do it. alQuida, a entirely different animal...
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dothedd
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Post by dothedd on May 25, 2011 11:41:37 GMT -5
What an awesome speech. I just watched it over again. What a great man. What a great response he got from the Congress. What a clear statement of reality and purpose. What a clear yet statesmanlike repudiation of the Obama anti-Israel doctrine. Thank you, Marshabar for posting the link so that those of us who have only heard excerpts can hear the speech in its entirety.
Unlike President Obama, I would wager Prime Minister Netanyahu writes his own speeches.K4U
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Post by ed1066 on May 25, 2011 11:46:34 GMT -5
That's absolutely false. The suicide bombers who murder innocent Israeli men, women and children are all young men and women who have been indocrinated into terrorism by Hamas and Fatah leaders.
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Post by marshabar1 on May 25, 2011 11:47:22 GMT -5
Hey thanks, dothedd! ;D
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Post by marshabar1 on May 25, 2011 11:49:19 GMT -5
That's absolutely false. The suicide bombers who murder innocent Israeli men, women and children are all young men and women who have been indocrinated into terrorism by Hamas and Fatah leaders. It must just crush their mother's souls. This is so against everything in a woman. In fact so much of what goes on in the Muslim world seems to crush the soul.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 25, 2011 11:58:14 GMT -5
That's absolutely false. The suicide bombers who murder innocent Israeli men, women and children are all young men and women who have been indoctrinated into terrorism by Hamas and Fatah leaders. It must just crush their mother's souls. This is so against everything in a woman. In fact so much of what goes on in the Muslim world seems to crush the soul. Paranoia and hatred..so sad , love the hating of a whole culture for the actions of a minority. Next step suggesting they are really sub human, to bad Goebbels is gone, he could market his ideas and tactics and make a killing, though it seems there are plenty well indoctrinated in his ideas and tactics now so might have tough competition, in fact in some cases his ideas might be considered outdated. Seriously , do these thoughts have to expressed here..on this board. The insinuating of a whole culture as evil because some of the group does horrible things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 12:16:23 GMT -5
Actually, Marsha, seems it is an honor to have a suicide bomber as a child in some places. That's why they work so hard to keep them dumbed down and isolated. They don't want them to know there are other ways to live, that they can raise their children to LIVE, not die.
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Post by marshabar1 on May 25, 2011 12:32:43 GMT -5
Actually, Marsha, seems it is an honor to have a suicide bomber as a child in some places. That's why they work so hard to keep them dumbed down and isolated. They don't want them to know there are other ways to live, that they can raise their children to LIVE, not die. And the $25K paid by rich Saudis doesn't hurt. I feel for those people used as cat's paws for generations. Wish they'd wake up.
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dothedd
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Post by dothedd on May 25, 2011 12:52:50 GMT -5
The difference between Benjamin Netanyahu and Barack Obama summarized in one photo: UNDENIABLY…
KFU ... Paul
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Post by marshabar1 on May 25, 2011 18:32:07 GMT -5
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