The kid thread: Planning, pregnancy & parenting

[swasat]

Jul 13, 2018 10:15:41 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Jul 13, 2018 10:10:49 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

I get that feeling a lot. I keep talking to my counselor to confirm if its just me or if he's really acting like that. Ive stopped caving so easily during our talks, and its making him more angry. Especially when I refuse to apologize.

Apologize for what?! For doing all the work with the kids while he hangs out at the bar? For cleaning up after him puking after going to said bar? For being the main breadwinner because he refuses to get a consistent paycheck? I could go on. What exactly is it that you are supposed to be apologizing for?

I am no expert. But the way I read it, he is still very much the conservative man he was growing up. So no matter what Sam does or he does, he believes SHE is the one who should apologize because 1) He is THE MAN 2) She is JUST THE WOMAN 3) Most importantly, he has gotten away with his shitty behavior for sooooooooooo long, he is angry Sam is not letting him get away with it anymore. 

So he lashes out. And the cycle of behavior goes on.

Sam - Do NOT APOLOGIZE. You have done nothing wrong. If anyone owes any apologies, its HIM. 100% HIM. 

[raeoflyte]

Jul 13, 2018 10:20:56 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jul 13, 2018 9:08:02 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Really?  I smashed my front tooth out doing exactly that when I was about that age.   It was kinda hard to lie about it though since I was bleeding profusely.

You hurt yourself. My girlfriend fell off her horse when we were both riding and knocked out her two front teeth. It was t on purpose and she didn’t lie about it.

Kids lie.  And kids have accidents, and then lie to cover up the accidents.  That is normal for apparently every kid but yours.  Even good kids, in healthy households. Better to lie as little kids and figure out how well that works then to learn when the consequences are a lot more severe.  

One of the mom's I really look up to had the best way to phrase it with her son and a neighbor kid who the 2 of them would always get into trouble together, but rarely on their own.  They were both good kids, but they made bad choices together.  And because of that they had stricter and different rules for hanging out than many of their other friends, but it stopped (and really never started) the blame game that one of them was an instigator.  They still got to be friends, and still got to hang out.  The moms were good friends too.  I think that is a valid thing that can happen and it was the best way to phrase it that still allows both kids to be good kids without detracting from the consequences of the less than stellar choices made.  

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Jul 13, 2018 10:28:02 GMT -5 kjto1 said:

Jul 13, 2018 10:21:37 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

On a totally different topic: 
DD#2 (age 16) has requested we have dinner with a boy she wants to start dating. She can't go out with him alone until we have a full few hours with him. We had an unexpected meeting with him last month that lasted about five minutes. That'll be fun tonight. 

What was your first impression of him?

Well, I don't think he knew that we had no idea he was going to be at DD's dance recital. He did handle that well. He didn't hide or run away. He introduced himself even though DH was clearly unpleasantly shocked that the baby had a boy come to her dance recital. Other than that, we don't know much. We do know his parents decided to hold him back at some point in elementary school. DD has skipped a grade. Even though she's going into her senior year and he's going into his sophomore year, they're only three months apart in age. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Abby is an amazing "liar".  I amused myself by keeping it going for about 20 minutes, every time I threw a question at her she'd change the story to fit.

Her latest favorite thing to do is blame the dog for everything.  When you point out the dog does not have thumbs she changes it to "Sissy did it!"

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2018 10:24:20 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

DD colored on our stucco but she was very little. I guess I was just luckier when they were young. Of course I’m sure they leave things out they don’t want me to know about now. DD won’t have a wedding because of her father and his cronies making it all about them and putting on a drunken shit show. I wish that jerk would finally die and leave us all in peace.

Maybe your kids were just really good at it?  I fell in that category.  I was a budding chemist and used to make "potions" in the sink.  You know...ammonia and bleach and toilet declogger....all mixed together.  I remember one time throwing together something in my grandparents sink that ATE THE ENAMEL OFF!  I got away with it somehow.  I don't remember how.  Probably because it was a huge farmhouse with several bathrooms and lots of grandkids around and it wasn't found until much later.  I used to skip school starting in 2nd grade and was apparently quite convincing when they called in the evening because they marked me as sick and that was the end of it.  I knew to not do it often enough to cause a problem. 

[midjd]

Memory is a funny thing. My mom always talks about how my sister and I were "never any trouble" and "good as gold" growing up. That's not quite how I remember it, for either of us. I think my brother was just SO much trouble that his behavior over-wrote those parts of her brain.  

[chen35]

Jul 13, 2018 10:21:37 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

On a totally different topic: 
DD#2 (age 16) has requested we have dinner with a boy she wants to start dating. She can't go out with him alone until we have a full few hours with him. We had an unexpected meeting with him last month that lasted about five minutes. That'll be fun tonight. 

From personal experience, it's really fun to bring up the Bambi 'twitterpated' clip on youtube (from you TV if you have a smart TV) while they are both in the room. 

[muttleynfelix]

Ben came up with a good one yesterday. He was chasing his sister around the yard with a shovel and she was absolutely terrified. I saw it from the kitchen and came out and Ben said that he had picked up a cicada shell on the shovel and showed it to Jocelyn. When Jocelyn freaked out, he says flung it off the shovel and was chasing after her to show her that it was gone. I don't believe for a second wasn't trying to torment her with the insect, but I didn't push it. Either way, I told him that it looked like he was trying to stab his sister with a shovel and it wasn't a good look no matter what his intentions were.

[alabamagal]

Jul 13, 2018 11:09:11 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Abby is an amazing "liar".  I amused myself by keeping it going for about 20 minutes, every time I threw a question at her she'd change the story to fit.

Her latest favorite thing to do is blame the dog for everything.  When you point out the dog does not have thumbs she changes it to "Sissy did it!"

I don’t remember my kids doing the blame game much, but we sure had a lot of stuff break all by itself. Since kids moved out we really don’t have that happen anymore.

[Deleted]

As for the destroying property, I don't think A and her cousin were intentionally trying to damage things.  Kids aren't always thinking things through when playing.  I do remember a nail polish episode when I was probably around that age.  My mom had just had an enclosed porch built on her house and there was a screen door with glass and for some reason I took nail polish to a corner of it.  Not a lot, maybe a one inch square area, but this was a NEW door and the front access to the house.  I didn't do it because I was angry or vindictive or wanted to wreck something.  I just had nail polish and for whatever reason, putting it on a screen was enticing.  My Mom was furious and I did feel bad when I realized, 1.  She did not want that there and 2. It was impossible to get off!.  She was able to clean the glass, but that screen STILL had nail polish on it 25 years later!  ROFL  She sold the house a long time ago,  but my first house was a block down and I'd walk past it all the time. 

[survivor10]

Sam-Journal, Journal, Journal.  Over the course of time you will see that you are not the crazy one.  If things don't change, one day you will wake up and without a shadow of a doubt know you are done.  Until then live your life as you want-include him or not.

He is going to say what he is going to say about the end of your marriage when/if it comes to that.  His perception of reality is skewed.  The people who really matter will know the truth or come to know the truth.  I never had to bad mouth my ex.  After a while, even my kids and his side of the family knows the truth.  I still have a relationship with my exFIL for my kids' sake.  He is closer to me than his son.  It took awhile, but I wasn't in the wrong and the truth came out.  You can only lie for so long before people start to put the pieces together.  

Divorce is hell.  It is not fun.  But now that I am on the other side-life is so much better.  I used to have nightmares about being a single mom.  Now when I dream about him, he wants to come back.  I actually wake up sweating and breathing heavy.  In no way do I ever want to go back.  

You are already doing most/all of the housework and child care.  You may think you cannot do it alone.  It is easier now for me because I don't have to worry about him making a mess or be pissed off that I am the only one doing whatever needs to be done.  

Praying for you.

[survivor10]

Kids lie. I work with 9 year olds all day.  They lie to get out of trouble.  They lie to impress.  They lie to get someone else in trouble. They lie to protect. They also lie because they believe the events truly happened a certain way.  They lie for a variety of other reasons. Unfortunately so do adults.  

[TheOtherMe]

Jul 13, 2018 11:32:27 GMT -5 midjd said:

Memory is a funny thing. My mom always talks about how my sister and I were "never any trouble" and "good as gold" growing up. That's not quite how I remember it, for either of us. I think my brother was just SO much trouble that his behavior over-wrote those parts of her brain.  

Mom didn't know until about 5 years before she died at age 90 that my BFF and I rode our bicycles outside of the area where we were allowed.  She did not know we did it until I mentioned going to a certain store with BFF.  

Mom didn't allow herself to think that her daughters would misbehave or go against the rules.  We both misbehaved and didn't follow her rules.  

[TheOtherMe]

Sam_2.0    


You will do what is right for you and it will be the right thing for you.

[debthaven]

Sam_2.0 I'm sorry but I too think that he's hoping/waiting for you to kick him out so you can be the "bad guy" and he can be the "good guy" in the eyes of his family and church.

I also think that it is highly unlikely he ends up at his parents' house if he leaves ... seems to me he'd be much more likely to stay with friends so he can drink and party come and go as he pleases.

He doesn't bring in any much money, he's mean and disrespectful to you, so often indifferent to the kids .... He acts abominably, then gets angry at you. EVERYTHING is ALWAYS your fault! Like many others have said, it's gaslighting. Has he ever been an equal partner in anything? Chores? Kids? Bringing money home? Doesn't really sound like it. 

Hugs to you friend as you figure things out. You deserve so much better Sam.

[azucena]

Jul 13, 2018 10:21:37 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

On a totally different topic: 
DD#2 (age 16) has requested we have dinner with a boy she wants to start dating. She can't go out with him alone until we have a full few hours with him. We had an unexpected meeting with him last month that lasted about five minutes. That'll be fun tonight. 

If you don't mind, please tell me more about this house rule.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I defaced the back of my bedroom door by drawing all over it.  I didn't do it because I was acting out or a deliuqiuent.  It just at the time seemed like a good place to draw.   It's all still there 30 years later.

[Sam_2.0]

Aly wrote her name on the baseboards when we had first moved into our house. She tried to blame it on her little friend, lol! I asked why it was signed with her name then (and in her writing - we knew it was her).

Got to have lunch with my sister which was really good. She & her DH have been through a LOT so she was pretty helpful with stuff. You guys are good too But it was nice to get it out IRL with someone that knows us both.

[azucena]

Glad you were able to do that.  I'm sure it helps that she understands your upbringing.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Jul 13, 2018 12:36:31 GMT -5 azucena said:

Jul 13, 2018 10:21:37 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

On a totally different topic: 
DD#2 (age 16) has requested we have dinner with a boy she wants to start dating. She can't go out with him alone until we have a full few hours with him. We had an unexpected meeting with him last month that lasted about five minutes. That'll be fun tonight. 

If you don't mind, please tell me more about this house rule.

I'm the insane helicopter mom who doesn't let her younger children go anywhere without meeting the parents. Group hanging-out, we're okay with as long as we know the kids and trust them enough. Absolutely no going to a house in which we've not met the parents regardless of gender of the kid.

At the individual dating stage, we have required each boy come to our house and meet us and have a meal with us. We also meet at least one of the parents. DH has already met the dad in this case as he's a lawyer in town and DH has worked with him in a professional capacity.   

With DD#1, we have vetoed relationships before. Once, that got kind of ugly with the other family.

We're skilled/insane enough that it's been pretty difficult for any of our children to do something without us knowing about it. Remember thought that we don't even let our kids go to school by themselves. 

[raeoflyte]

Jul 13, 2018 13:57:52 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Jul 13, 2018 12:36:31 GMT -5 azucena said:

If you don't mind, please tell me more about this house rule.

I'm the insane helicopter mom who doesn't let her younger children go anywhere without meeting the parents. Group hanging-out, we're okay with as long as we know the kids and trust them enough. Absolutely no going to a house in which we've not met the parents regardless of gender of the kid.

At the individual dating stage, we have required each boy come to our house and meet us and have a meal with us. We also meet at least one of the parents. DH has already met the dad in this case as he's a lawyer in town and DH has worked with him in a professional capacity.   

With DD#1, we have vetoed relationships before. Once, that got kind of ugly with the other family.

We're skilled/insane enough that it's been pretty difficult for any of our children to do something without us knowing about it. Remember thought that we don't even let our kids go to school by themselves. 

What will you do you do when they turn 18?  Or does that continue while they live with you?  (Doesn't your dh have a son from a previous marriage?  Can I ask...Did he have the same rules?)  

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Jul 13, 2018 14:06:03 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jul 13, 2018 13:57:52 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

I'm the insane helicopter mom who doesn't let her younger children go anywhere without meeting the parents. Group hanging-out, we're okay with as long as we know the kids and trust them enough. Absolutely no going to a house in which we've not met the parents regardless of gender of the kid.

At the individual dating stage, we have required each boy come to our house and meet us and have a meal with us. We also meet at least one of the parents. DH has already met the dad in this case as he's a lawyer in town and DH has worked with him in a professional capacity.   

With DD#1, we have vetoed relationships before. Once, that got kind of ugly with the other family.

We're skilled/insane enough that it's been pretty difficult for any of our children to do something without us knowing about it. Remember thought that we don't even let our kids go to school by themselves. 

What will you do you do when they turn 18?  Or does that continue while they live with you?  (Doesn't your dh have a son from a previous marriage?  Can I ask...Did he have the same rules?)  

For DD#1, the rules still applied until we sent her off to college. 
For DD#2, she will graduate at age 17 and go to college at age 17. I fully admit there's not much we can do once she's living at college. 
For DSS#1, once he wanted to individually (instead of group) date a girl, if we didn't know her we had to meet her. He graduated and turned 18 all in the same week, and that stopped. However, he only started dating one girl we didn't know. If the kids are interested in someone even remotely within the area, we know who it is or we can find out pretty quickly--like 15 minutes pretty quickly. DS, at age 19, fell hard for a 29 yo with a kid. We pushed gently to talk him out of that, but his best friend actually smacked him upside the head to end that one. 
For DSS#2, the same rules applied, but he seriously was terrified of girls until he was about age 24. Didn't lose his virginity until then. He's 27yo now, and about 15 months into his first serious relationship, and he's proposed already. I bought the engagement ring. 

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2018 13:57:52 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Jul 13, 2018 12:36:31 GMT -5 azucena said:

If you don't mind, please tell me more about this house rule.

I'm the insane helicopter mom who doesn't let her younger children go anywhere without meeting the parents. Group hanging-out, we're okay with as long as we know the kids and trust them enough. Absolutely no going to a house in which we've not met the parents regardless of gender of the kid.

At the individual dating stage, we have required each boy come to our house and meet us and have a meal with us. We also meet at least one of the parents. DH has already met the dad in this case as he's a lawyer in town and DH has worked with him in a professional capacity.   

With DD#1, we have vetoed relationships before. Once, that got kind of ugly with the other family.

We're skilled/insane enough that it's been pretty difficult for any of our children to do something without us knowing about it. Remember thought that we don't even let our kids go to school by themselves. 

I thought you bought your daughter a car so you wouldn't have to drive her to dance? 

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Jul 13, 2018 14:18:14 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 13, 2018 13:57:52 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

I'm the insane helicopter mom who doesn't let her younger children go anywhere without meeting the parents. Group hanging-out, we're okay with as long as we know the kids and trust them enough. Absolutely no going to a house in which we've not met the parents regardless of gender of the kid.

At the individual dating stage, we have required each boy come to our house and meet us and have a meal with us. We also meet at least one of the parents. DH has already met the dad in this case as he's a lawyer in town and DH has worked with him in a professional capacity.   

With DD#1, we have vetoed relationships before. Once, that got kind of ugly with the other family.

We're skilled/insane enough that it's been pretty difficult for any of our children to do something without us knowing about it. Remember thought that we don't even let our kids go to school by themselves. 

I thought you bought your daughter a car so you wouldn't have to drive her to dance? 

yes?

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Oh, we work at the schools they attend. Is that what I didn't explain well?

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

That's how we know literally every kid the come in contact with on a daily basis and most of the ones that attend near-by districts. If we don't know a kid, we know someone who works at the school they attend. 

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2018 14:18:49 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Jul 13, 2018 14:18:14 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I thought you bought your daughter a car so you wouldn't have to drive her to dance? 

yes?

Well, you were sounding like you never let them go anywhere by themselves.  I assumed she was going to dance by herself if she was driving.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Jul 13, 2018 14:21:30 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 13, 2018 14:18:49 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

yes?

Well, you were sounding like you never let them go anywhere by themselves.  I assumed she was going to dance by herself if she was driving.

Yeah, that was a huge flip on DH's part! We do track them via their phones pretty extensively. Not the boys anymore, of course. 

If they're with a boy, I send them texts requesting some weird picture that can only be created based on where they're supposed to be
I completely get that I am insane. 

[raeoflyte]

Jul 13, 2018 14:13:24 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Jul 13, 2018 14:06:03 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

What will you do you do when they turn 18?  Or does that continue while they live with you?  (Doesn't your dh have a son from a previous marriage?  Can I ask...Did he have the same rules?)  

For DD#1, the rules still applied until we sent her off to college. 
For DD#2, she will graduate at age 17 and go to college at age 17. I fully admit there's not much we can do once she's living at college. 
For DSS#1, once he wanted to individually (instead of group) date a girl, if we didn't know her we had to meet her. He graduated and turned 18 all in the same week, and that stopped. However, he only started dating one girl we didn't know. If the kids are interested in someone even remotely within the area, we know who it is or we can find out pretty quickly--like 15 minutes pretty quickly. DS, at age 19, fell hard for a 29 yo with a kid. We pushed gently to talk him out of that, but his best friend actually smacked him upside the head to end that one. 
For DSS#2, the same rules applied, but he seriously was terrified of girls until he was about age 24. Didn't lose his virginity until then. He's 27yo now, and about 15 months into his first serious relationship, and he's proposed already. I bought the engagement ring. 

Thank you.  I don't disagree with the policy.  I really don't know what we'll do.  

Pre-dh, my folks met who I was dating, but always briefly.  Speaking of lying, Dh and I flew under everyone's radar for over a year, but I desperately do not want the kids to do what we did either.  If I had been a little more secure in my parents approval at that point I might have been more open with them.  But probably not...not sure that anything could have stopped me from those decisions.  

[Deleted]

I just told DS not to date a moron.  That was my only requirement.    I don't see him doing that anyhow because his tolerance level for those girls is even lower than mine.