The kid thread: Planning, pregnancy & parenting

[zibazinski]

Does he like to color? DS hated coloring but I bought some huge coloring books and the two of us colored together. It does help. My penmanship was awful, back when you actually got marks for it and I can remember my aunt coloring with me and encouraging me to stay in the lines by heavily outlining the lines for me and me coloring in them. I think that might have helped me. Just a thought. My other thought is its one thing to work through adversity with help and encouragement , it's another to have your efforts nit picked . I'm sure I'm putting my experience and guilt with DS on this situation but please watch carefully because it took two teachers two years to help DS get over the trauma of that year. He was a very sensitive little boy. DD on the other hand probably would have told that teacher to get bent. 

[Deleted]

Playing with clay is good too. 

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2017 8:44:28 GMT -5 oped said:

Playing with clay is good too. 

Yes.  This is part of the physical therapy that I experienced last spring trying to get my fine motor skills back.  I couldn't even sign my name.

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 17, 2017 8:11:29 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

It's ok, zib.  DS is a really, really frustrating kid especially when he's upset by a transition and I expect that she was influenced by some of that frustration showing through.  The incident was immediately preceded by her telling me he'd broken something and their management didn't like replacing things (Montessori educational stuff is expensive!  I looked at getting some and the prices were ridiculous).  I do think this isn't a great fit (the outgoing teacher was also concerned) but we are also trying to encourage some emotional growth here, dealing with adversity and whatnot...plus I think it isn't worth switching him to another classroom where everything is unfamiliar.  I'll talk to the director and other teacher about maybe moving him up in November.  That will give us some time to work more on skills.  Right now when he writes his four-letter name it takes up an entire 8.5x11 page, but he tries to keep letter practice inside the guidelines when asked.

I pulled him out of a school last year where he was completely miserable and acting out because of it.  I thought and still think that teacher was just awful with kids who aren't perfectly behaved (at age 3!!).  He's still okay with going to this school, and the management has been very helpful and supportive. Asking a lot about staying home or moving up to the next class though.

The school definitely has higher standards and benchmarks than the public system (which is itself highly regarded); my coworker described his daughter being way ahead of her peers when she started public kindergarten.  I have rarely been more flummoxed than when DS' classmate (maybe 3-5 months older) was excitedly showing me how he was doing an addition worksheet...on his own, I might add    I mean, super sweet kid and one of DS' best friends...but at 4.5!

Thanks susanna for the tip on the sewing cards; I was looking at them on Amazon last night.  And DS picked out some iron-together bead craft supplies at Ikea last night...we'll see if I can get him to sit still long enough to finish any of it!  Mostly there are just some things that he doesn't do automatically but picks up ok with some coaching.  I suppose that's the whole point of early intervention.

Ummmm.....that's the problem though.  She shouldn't be.  He is 4, she is not.  He is a child, she is not.  It's not like he broke something on purpose.  And even if he did, again, he is 4 and she is not.

Anywhoooo....I am going to stop now bc....well....bc "high standards" and "4yr old" just too much for me. 

I hope your son does well!

[zibazinski]

Maybe re-think Montessori. Some kids thrive, DD would have. Some kids don't. DS would not have. Both grew up and are okay.

[Deleted]

Getting all anal on a 4 year old about lower case letters and pushing kids to higher standards isn't Montessori at all though.  Either that particular teacher has issues or the school is not following the intended teaching philosophy, which is supposed to be self-directed and at the child's pace without pressuring to meet some per-determined standard. 

I agree though, it's still not for every kid.  I think my older son should have been moved to a traditional school earlier than he was (9th grade).  He's already advocating to move his brother in 7th, but so far (this is his 5th year now), Carrot seems to be doing really well there.

[Shooby]

  I personally didn't want an "academic" Kindergarten.  Kids need to be kids.  I don't understand the hysteria over preschoolers nowadays.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Am I missing something? I thought the whole point of Montessori was basically that you go at your own pace there is no real structure/benchmarks like public school.   I would think they'd be LESS worried about a 4 year old using all caps than a regular school.

Gwen is 7 and she still writes mostly in all caps.  I was told this is normal (not that I was worried).  It's also pretty common at her age to still write several letters backwards.

Teacher sounds like a bitch.  She picked on his handwriting because she was pissed he broke something.  I may be making correlations in my head but I would definitely talk with the principal about it.

My brother's love of learning was destroyed by his 4th grade teacher who is a psycho.  I told my parents to switch him when I heard who his teacher was.  She was just as nasty as she was when I went to school.  She's like Voldermort, people who had her as a teacher 20 years ago still won't speak her name.

He never did recover from that. For the rest of his public education he believed that he was "stupid".  It has only been in his late 20's that he decided to go to college and is thriving.

If it is possible to switch I would switch.  4 years old is too young to expect him to be able to tell her to shove it or let her comments roll off his back.

[Sam_2.0]

Hope you get things worked out for him, lurky. Sounds like you are staying involved and advocating for him!

[Sam_2.0]

Introducing Aly to the Addams Family today ♡ I think that will be our family costume. We just need to figure out a costume for T. Either a little black cat, somehow figure out a Thing costume, or make him a baby Lurch since he is bald

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2017 8:11:29 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

The school definitely has higher standards and benchmarks than the public system (which is itself highly regarded); my coworker described his daughter being way ahead of her peers when she started public kindergarten.  I have rarely been more flummoxed than when DS' classmate (maybe 3-5 months older) was excitedly showing me how he was doing an addition worksheet...on his own, I might add    I mean, super sweet kid and one of DS' best friends...but at 4.5!

Your 4 year old not using lower case is a lot closer to the norm than a 4.5 year old doing addition worksheets. 

All kids have strengths and weaknesses and in the early years there can be so much variation in ability between kids the same age.  It starts to level out later.  (But, neither of mine will ever have good handwriting!) 

My older son was crazy off the scale.  We're talking he started reading at 2 and was into chapter books by Kindy.  The kid always had his nose in a book and assimilated everything in them.  He always scores really high on standardized tests too.  When younger son came along 8 years later, I expected similar, (thinking naively that my parenting actually had something to do with it), but they are so different.  Younger son started reading at a more normal time and is only slightly interested in reading just for enjoyment now at 7.  He is not this walking encyclopedia of knowledge that his brother is at all.  BUT, older son is also lazy, unmotivated and very unorganized.  He never makes the effort to go the distance in anything, he just does whatever he needs to but never pushes to excel.  He's the kid that would get into a high ranked school based on SAT and fail out because he forgot to go to class or never read the syllabus to know he had to write a paper that was half his grade or something.  Younger son on the other hand has much more drive.  He will stick with something and put in effort.  Ultimately, I think this might end up being more helpful to him than all the book knowledge his brother has.

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2017 10:53:33 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Introducing Aly to the Addams Family today ♡ I think that will be our family costume. We just need to figure out a costume for T. Either a little black cat, somehow figure out a Thing costume, or make him a baby Lurch since he is bald

I'm blaming you for my last half hour of guilty indulgence lost productivity... made me want to look up pictures of Neil Patrick Harris kids, then Angelina Jolie's... oh well, annual voyerism done! 

[alabamagal]

Sept 17, 2017 10:58:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 17, 2017 8:11:29 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

The school definitely has higher standards and benchmarks than the public system (which is itself highly regarded); my coworker described his daughter being way ahead of her peers when she started public kindergarten.  I have rarely been more flummoxed than when DS' classmate (maybe 3-5 months older) was excitedly showing me how he was doing an addition worksheet...on his own, I might add    I mean, super sweet kid and one of DS' best friends...but at 4.5!

Your 4 year old not using lower case is a lot closer to the norm than a 4.5 year old doing addition worksheets. 

All kids have strengths and weaknesses and in the early years there can be so much variation in ability between kids the same age.  It starts to level out later.  (But, neither of mine will ever have good handwriting!) 

My older son was crazy off the scale.  We're talking he started reading at 2 and was into chapter books by Kindy.  The kid always had his nose in a book and assimilated everything in them.  He always scores really high on standardized tests too.  When younger son came along 8 years later, I expected similar, (thinking naively that my parenting actually had something to do with it), but they are so different.  Younger son started reading at a more normal time and is only slightly interested in reading just for enjoyment now at 7.  He is not this walking encyclopedia of knowledge that his brother is at all.  BUT, older son is also lazy, unmotivated and very unorganized.  He never makes the effort to go the distance in anything, he just does whatever he needs to but never pushes to excel.  He's the kid that would get into a high ranked school based on SAT and fail out because he forgot to go to class or never read the syllabus to know he had to write a paper that was half his grade or something.  Younger son on the other hand has much more drive.  He will stick with something and put in effort.  Ultimately, I think this might end up being more helpful to him than all the book knowledge his brother has.

My youngest son is like your oldest. Early reading, doing math early, I joke he was a genius when he was young. When he was 5 he got into reading food labels and added 200 and 40 in his head. He was so freaky smart until teenage hormones got ahold of his brain. He did graduate from a good college, but the genius went away. Meanwhile the boy who struggled in elementary, did not read until late in K5 got things together later. He is the one who has passed 7 actuary exams all on first try in 2.5 years.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I had a lot of stuff come naturally to me.  Teachers didn't really challenge me so it became super easy to coast.  I didn't really retain anything.

That bit me in the ass HARD when it came to college and suddenly I was taking courses I could not coast thru. I had zero study skills so the learning curve was steep.

The kid might be doing addition sheets at 4.5 but he can slide downhill later if it's taken for granted how "smart" he is.

My former boss told me that you don't learn anything if you do it perfectly the first time.  Mistakes force us to learn and remember. 

I told him if he said that one more time I was going to start throwing beakers at him.

[Deleted]

One of my best friends in high school was told he shouldn't even try for engineering school. He had to work so hard for every grade. Meanwhile I coasted and got into a program without much trouble (albeit not the best one)... but only one of us finished an engineering degree. I too had no study skills and no way to approach a class when I didn't automatically 'get it'.

For better or for worse, an education degree let me pretty much coast through college too.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I struggled all thru physics.  It took all that I had just to scrape out a 70%.  I was 1% away from having to take the class over again.  I got thru thanks to the lab practical.

So making mistakes and struggling doesn't always lead to enlightenment.  That was my comeback whenever my boss would chant his mantra at me.

But in a lot of ways he is right.  The people I know who easily coast thru the work I do often end up having a BIG mistake somewhere they never caught because they took for granted they were so awesome.

It's thru troubleshooting all the mistakes I've done that I've become so good at what I do.  If I couldn't identify the wrong stuff I'd never be sure I did the right stuff.

[Wisconsin Beth]

We're at a wine harvest farmers market type thing. Dh and drank a bottle of wine while wandering. Now at park waiting to see if friends can find us.I've blown about $150 so far on food, drink, facepaint and stuff for the kids to do. I'm wishing we'd got another bottle of wine...

[tcu2003]

Anyone with preteen girls have a birthday gift suggestion? DH's niece and nephew turn 12 and I need to figure out the niece's birthday gift by Saturday. I got nephew a Lego City set, but no idea for niece and SIL was no help. I thought about a magazine subscription, but not sure what to get if I go that route. Or a new board game - they have the standard ones, but if something new is out, that would probably be a hit.

[Sam_2.0]

12ish is when I started getting to go out with friends to the mall and such. Maybe a giftcard? A card for the movies? Anything she's really into?

[Sam_2.0]

Sept 17, 2017 12:11:05 GMT -5 oped said:

One of my best friends in high school was told he shouldn't even try for engineering school. He had to work so hard for every grade. Meanwhile I coasted and got into a program without much trouble (albeit not the best one)... but only one of us finished an engineering degree. I too had no study skills and no way to approach a class when I didn't automatically 'get it'.

For better or for worse, an education degree let me pretty much coast through college too.

I got a degree in math because it was easy. Tacked on sociology too when the education part got hard and I realized during student teaching that I liked math more than I liked random high school kids. So I changed my major, took 25 hrs/semester and got a double major in math/soc.

Funny thing is, those both came in handy working with assistance agencies at the utility company. Who would have thought?

[Works4me]

Sept 17, 2017 10:53:33 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Introducing Aly to the Addams Family today ♡ I think that will be our family costume. We just need to figure out a costume for T. Either a little black cat, somehow figure out a Thing costume, or make him a baby Lurch since he is bald

That would be so much fun! In the second movie, Addams Family Family Values, Morticia and Gomez have a third child. They name their baby Pubert and he has a mustache drawn on. 

[lurkyloo]

So, I really do need to get back to weekend chores here 
I think I am not adequately conveying how frustrating DS is.   On a scale of one to ten, where your average four-year-old is maybe a 6-7  in frustration, he's well off the charts.  And that goes up exponentially when he is cranky/hungry/tired/going through a transition. So no, the teacher shouldn't have done that and I will talk to the director and other teacher about moving him up.  Teachers are human too, though.   I'm not gonna go all self-righteous and declare blood feud, I'm just gonna see about moving DS.  

Montessori has been awesome for DS bc they really hammer home the independence thing, and DS is totally happy to sit back and let us do all the work if he's not nudged into doing it himself.  He's made great progress at this school and seems generally happy and I am not looking to move him out of the school,  just the class. The kid I mentioned with the early math skills is definitely an outlier but they do emphasize writing early and often.  They have sort of a weird system and it doesn't totally align in practice with what's written in their manual so I'm not as clear as I might be...I think being in with the slightly older kids is motivating for him, plus they train older ones to help the younger ones.  We'll see how the conversation goes.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear the consensus is I'm not overreacting.  

[tcu2003]

I got awesome news - I talked the director of M'a daycare last week about when M was going to move to the next class, as I'd heard one of her current teachers mention it wasn't going to be until October due to space (there are 3 babies who have all just turned / about to turn 1). Not a big deal, but I did want to know, and M has been spending a little time recently in that next classroom. She mentioned she didn't know yet when they were moving, but since M is definitely walking now, she would adjust her weekly rate. I was only expecting it to decrease maybe $20/week. I logged in tonight to pay, and it decreased $62/week - woo hoo!! Way more than I expected!"

[zibazinski]

Sept 17, 2017 8:11:29 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

It's ok, zib.  DS is a really, really frustrating kid especially when he's upset by a transition and I expect that she was influenced by some of that frustration showing through.  The incident was immediately preceded by her telling me he'd broken something and their management didn't like replacing things (Montessori educational stuff is expensive!  I looked at getting some and the prices were ridiculous).  I do think this isn't a great fit (the outgoing teacher was also concerned) but we are also trying to encourage some emotional growth here, dealing with adversity and whatnot...plus I think it isn't worth switching him to another classroom where everything is unfamiliar.  I'll talk to the director and other teacher about maybe moving him up in November.  That will give us some time to work more on skills.  Right now when he writes his four-letter name it takes up an entire 8.5x11 page, but he tries to keep letter practice inside the guidelines when asked.

I pulled him out of a school last year where he was completely miserable and acting out because of it.  I thought and still think that teacher was just awful with kids who aren't perfectly behaved (at age 3!!).  He's still okay with going to this school, and the management has been very helpful and supportive. Asking a lot about staying home or moving up to the next class though.

The school definitely has higher standards and benchmarks than the public system (which is itself highly regarded); my coworker described his daughter being way ahead of her peers when she started public kindergarten.  I have rarely been more flummoxed than when DS' classmate (maybe 3-5 months older) was excitedly showing me how he was doing an addition worksheet...on his own, I might add    I mean, super sweet kid and one of DS' best friends...but at 4.5!

Thanks susanna for the tip on the sewing cards; I was looking at them on Amazon last night.  And DS picked out some iron-together bead craft supplies at Ikea last night...we'll see if I can get him to sit still long enough to finish any of it!  Mostly there are just some things that he doesn't do automatically but picks up ok with some coaching.  I suppose that's the whole point of early intervention.

Name me a kid who isn't frustrating, especially when they're young and haven't learned coping skills. I'm assuming she has a degree in early childhood education? A child acting like a child shouldn't be too surprising. This reminds me of when DS and another young boy were in the playhouse at my daycare that was for teachers kids. When I went to pick him up the director wanted to talk to me. It seems my son and the other little boy were giggling about the word "butt." I waited for her to get to the point. It seems that WAS the point. I asked did they expose their butts to anyone including each other? No. Did they talk about butts to the other students? No. Okay then, I'm not an expert in early childhood education but it seems to me that the proper thing to do was to re-direct them to another station if it bothered the teacher so much. To me, 4 year old boys giggling about butts is normal and the first stage to fart jokes. 

[cael]

Sept 15, 2017 12:33:42 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 15, 2017 12:02:27 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

One of the things I absolutely love about my parents is that they did this for me (especially by highschool before I had a license) without ever complaining or making me feel bad.  I had work, multiple bands, and theater which took up 6 days a week.  

With younger kids I can see limiting to one or two nights a week.  But it's really not hard to end up committed to nearly every night once they hit high school (this is why I made him get his permit right away when he turned 15...I want this to be the last year I have to be hauling him around to things every single day).

Even if he was just in band and robotics it would be a lot.  Robotics is three days a week for 2.5 hours each time.  Marching band practices three mornings a week before school, mandatory playing in Pep band for the games, several concerts and out of town band competitions.  Then we throw in jazz band, speech team and scouts on top of that.  Honestly though, my kid is not in nearly as much as some of his peers.  I have NO IDEA how they do it.  There almost has to be a SAHP. 

This is more along the lines of what I meant - I don't want my little kid being out of the house every single night running around, I want him to have more at home time than that. High school becomes a different story of course, but also since I work FT, neither of us would be home basically at all if he had activities every night and I'm not ok with that for a young kid. I'll drive him to whatever he wants to do, but not so many things he/we are never home.

My activities were limited by both money and my parent's schedules  but they never made me feel bad about driving me places. It was never anything late or far away either.

[whoisjohngalt]

Sept 17, 2017 21:16:06 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

So, I really do need to get back to weekend chores here 
I think I am not adequately conveying how frustrating DS is.   On a scale of one to ten, where your average four-year-old is maybe a 6-7  in frustration, he's well off the charts.  And that goes up exponentially when he is cranky/hungry/tired/going through a transition. So no, the teacher shouldn't have done that and I will talk to the director and other teacher about moving him up.  Teachers are human too, though.   I'm not gonna go all self-righteous and declare blood feud, I'm just gonna see about moving DS.  

Montessori has been awesome for DS bc they really hammer home the independence thing, and DS is totally happy to sit back and let us do all the work if he's not nudged into doing it himself.  He's made great progress at this school and seems generally happy and I am not looking to move him out of the school,  just the class. The kid I mentioned with the early math skills is definitely an outlier but they do emphasize writing early and often.  They have sort of a weird system and it doesn't totally align in practice with what's written in their manual so I'm not as clear as I might be...I think being in with the slightly older kids is motivating for him, plus they train older ones to help the younger ones.  We'll see how the conversation goes.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear the consensus is I'm not overreacting.  

This is probably pointless, but it never stopped me before.

Yes, teachers are human and I certainly never taught anyone but my own kids, but snapping at a 4 yr old one month into a school year would set all kinds of red flags for me.

And it has nothing to do with being self righteous.  I certainly snap and even yell at my kids while teaching them.  And I even had conversations with them and my husband whether I am really suited to teach them - exactly for that reason.  But one thing I have never done is to blame my kids for MY behavior.  Regardless of how frustrating your son might be, teacher's reaction is never his fault and I hope he knows that.

[cael]

Sept 17, 2017 9:03:26 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Maybe re-think Montessori. Some kids thrive, DD would have. Some kids don't. DS would not have. Both grew up and are okay.

True, kids all do differently in schools like that.. I went to Waldorf through 8th grade as did my brother, and honestly I did OK but probably would've done better with more structure, and my brother did less OK than I did and had more problems keeping up with work in high school and still spells and writes badly.

My mother took me to a Montessori open house when I was kindergarten aged, and they told the parents they had to just watch quietly and not acknowledge or interact with the kids. She thought that was weird and sad so we didn't go there.. then she took me to public school K assessment, and they made some snarky comment about when did I learn how to color within the lines, and she didn't like that either, so Waldorf it was. It was both good and bad in different ways. I don't know if I'd send my kid to Waldorf or Montessori, but I have to see how he does with his attention and focus and stuff. I like the free play/outdoor/nature aspects of schools like that, but sometimes the academics and high school/college prep scares me.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

While yes teachers are human teachers choose to go into the minefield.  I once told Gwen's pre-school teacher I don't know how she does it.  She has my admiration forever because if I was in a room with 10-20 four  year olds all day long I'd start drinking.  

[MJ2.0]

Sept 16, 2017 10:03:56 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 16, 2017 9:33:50 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

[

Freaking A, he's 4!! WTH is going on there? This does not sound like a good fit. Fine motor skills especially for boys takes a long time to develop if ever.

I'm still trying to get my 15 year old to hold a fork correctly!!  (I'm not kidding his fine motor does suck).

My 7 year old's writing is still pretty bad and while they teach them cursive I tell him to PRINT for his spelling tests.  Even if it's huge, block, capital letters.  At least it's legible enough to know he knew how to spell the word. 

they were trying to focus on proper holding of the pencil while writing.  DS loves writing and he finally got to the point where he is writing legibly.  BUT he holds his pencil clutched in his fist.  Let me just say - and I'll say this to the teachers if asked - as long as he is writing and writing well, I don't give one single solitary F how he is holding the damn pencil.

[taz157]

I'm texting with 1 of my cousins. She married last month and already have a 1 year old daughter. She texted me today to say that she's pregnant. I'm excited for her but I'm also jealous.

I haven't told her yet about my miscarriage last month... I don't feel right telling her now either. She knows about 1st one but not the last one.