Now the name 'Geronimo " inappropriate

[steff]

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[steff]

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[lakhota]

I think it's pretty chicken shit for anyone to be upset over the use of Geronimo with regard to the Osama bin Laden operation. The military is saturated with Native American code names and always has been.

[steff]

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[lakhota]

and let's not forget the Navajo Code Talkers from WWII and the Choctaw Code Talkers from WWI

[domeasingold]

Check the history books. The reality is at the time Geronimo may have been considered a terrorist and murderer of innocents.
However, using his name for a code word in this operation today may have been considered an honor.

BTW We flew a Kiowa Warrior in Viet Nam.

[deziloooooo]

May 4, 2011 15:52:48 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

No, I did not teach my kids to think in weird ways others consider proper-- like hanging tag names on people. I just taught them respect for all people and the difference between right and wrong. I think most things PC are stupid and nit-pickey. Like this. Do you approve of Senate Dems going after Obama for the Geronimo word?

As usual I don't agree with your feeling that PC is a weird way others consider proper.

I grew up in a time were personal racial epitaphs were used in main line media, newspapers, magazines , radio by government elected officials and our treatment of these folks followed the rhetoric.
Discrimination and if real uppity, a thing called lynching and worse was sometimes practiced.

Because of disrespect of a group and poor judgment a whole people, Japanese Americans were forced to sell their homes, businesses they had owned for generations for penny's on the dollar and go into forced incarceration , guarded by our/their own military, loaded weapons, bayonets fixed, from leaving those camps.
How many perished there I have no idea. Lack of PC didn't help these folks and if it was in vogue I wonder if things might have been different in their case.

Those of a different sexual preference then the norm, were singled out, ridiculed, demeaned, insulted and in many cases physically assaulted by their fellow citizens, sometimes by the members of the law enforcement community who were suppose to protect them as they were supposed to protect all law abiding citizens. Same thing , the above, PC would have made us more aware of the feelings for those folks , that they were different in one way but the same in most others, and so many so bright and contributing so much to our way of life, positively I may say.

I could fill these pages but hope you get the meaning and no I don't feel PC is considered

"I think most things PC are stupid and nit-picky"

As far as this thread that I put up, I did so for only one reason, feeling that the uproar that was starting to come out was out of proportion and a misunderstanding by those who were objecting as to how the name of the Apache War Chief was being used.
If not just the luck of the draw , but actually picked for the mission, it was in a honorable way, relating to his standing up for his people in the only way he felt he could, defending his people from the attacks of the major power who was trying to subject them in the only way he felt he could by declaring and waging war against his peoples enemies.

[marshabar1]

Seems the Apache Nation is taking it very seriously indeed.

[steff]

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[Deleted]

None of us brought this up. Dez did, and I researched it, as I always do on things I don't know anything about. We can LEARN on the board or we can blahblahblah............

[steff]

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[deziloooooo]

May 4, 2011 17:32:44 GMT -5 steff said:

May 4, 2011 17:30:34 GMT -5 @marshabar1 said:

Seems the Apache Nation is taking it very seriously indeed.

hopefully you are being paid for pushing the non-issue for them.....

If it's a non issue to you then why are you here commenting on it?

To me it was a political issue, we are on the political zone .
You are aware of that aren't you and I reread my original post, I thought I explained my confusion fairly well on the Indian Nation/ Head of the Indian agency, being upset about the use of the name in the Osama saga.

To me it was either just a name that came up, understand from another event, Lybia when there was discussion on the name of the action how they are sometimes chosen, , or purposly picked by the military as a honor, and if I was wrong in my views , a honor, possible some one could explain it.

It was just a point of political interest.
Thats what we do over here, bring up a topic, hopefully in regard to politics, the markets, though less of that is done and see where it flys. Some garner great discussion and interest and others just die on the vine.
This one while not a biggie seemed to get some discussion and interest.

There are many threads here I don't comment on, know little of or just not interested in the topic. I would suggest , try that tact. No interest, move on, moon won't be upset if you stay out of some discussions, neither will I.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

May 4, 2011 17:09:26 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

I think it's pretty chicken shit for anyone to be upset over the use of Geronimo with regard to the Osama bin Laden operation. The military is saturated with Native American code names and always has been.

I agree. Some people just get upset over giving anything an American Indian name. My wife's HS mascot was the Apaches until some liberal group complained about it. Even though Apache people said they considered it an honor, it was changed to the Bulldogs. What with this new crap about not calling animals pets, maybe it will be changed again.

[Deleted]

So, this whole thing boiled down to a few activists making a stink. Good grief. Thx for bringing it up, Dez. Made me look at some stuff.

[deziloooooo]

May 4, 2011 18:56:04 GMT -5 Mad Dawg Wiccan said:

May 4, 2011 17:09:26 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

I think it's pretty chicken shit for anyone to be upset over the use of Geronimo with regard to the Osama bin Laden operation. The military is saturated with Native American code names and always has been.

I agree. Some people just get upset over giving anything an American Indian name. My wife's HS mascot was the Apaches until some liberal group complained about it. Even though Apache people said they considered it an honor, it was changed to the Bulldogs. What with this new crap about not calling animals pets, maybe it will be changed again.

While they are my teams division rival and we traded UGGLA to them this winter, having to face him 18 times a year for the next forever, I am glad they kept the name "BRAVES " there was talk of dropping the name though they can take the tomahawk chop and put it..you get the idea. ;D

St Johns, Red Man..it was great, now Red Storm, sucks...Thee names are in honor of the people, their fierceness in battle and bravery , they aren't put downs...IMHO.


I am all for being PC, but on some of these ideas, I have to wonder, naturally not being member of, but if only some complaints , and not from those directly affected, then the complaints are bogus to me, Now if a goodly amount of the affected people are complaining, that's a different story, but even if just a few, no one any group is always 100 % on everything, or mostly so.

[deziloooooo]

May 4, 2011 19:08:03 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

So, this whole thing boiled down to a few activists making a stink. Good grief. Thx for bringing it up, Dez. Made me look at some stuff.

always here to expand ones knowledge krick...make us all, me to, more aware of the world around us.

[Deleted]

Dez- we seem to have several threads a week about weird activists doing weird things that people on both sides of the aisle here seem to agree are just.... weird..

[Deleted]

Being part Indian I have always loved anything Indian. And now, as you said-- can't even name sports teams after them-- which is a positive symbol IMO, of being tough and strong, etc. To ME it seems more like they are trying to diminish Indians than respect them, but what do I know?

[handyman2]

I think a lot of people bring nonsense up like this just to get their names in the press. A cheap way to do it but it seems to have worked..

[Value Buy]

I see Steff is still stalking Krickitt, and now using a tagname for her description of Krickitt, and no moderators stopping it.
Steff even brags she will be using it now, and not in a complimentary way.
Tennesseer, what say you?
Moonbeam?

[Value Buy]

By the way, I was the first person here to mention "Geronimo" on another thread, and felt it was a "slight" to this great American Indian who fought for freedom, using his name in the same breath of Osama Bin Laden.
Still do.

[Deleted]

Unreal-- new video, still going on, and ramping it up a notch or 20. Now they are saying the US military is at war with Indians......

[Value Buy]

May 9, 2011 16:56:18 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Unreal-- new video, still going on, and ramping it up a notch or 20. Now they are saying the US military is at war with Indians......

Well, you have to admit, the Indians have a long history with the military, and they did not come out too well on the issue.......

[Deleted]

I can see it historically, but modern times, isn't it more respect than denigration? Or am I wrong? They are insulted by bases being called Fort? As in Ft. Bliss? Seems extreme to me, but what do I know? I like all things Indian, and regret that some things I grew up with are gone now because of PC definitions of this. If it wasn't such a small group maybe it would seem more serious to me.

[Deleted]

I like to go to local Pow-Wows in the parks, etc. Really awesome. They make me feel something.. don't know what it is.. I guess the difference is in Indians doing it as opposed to white people?? But I'm white, and 1/8 Cherokee.

[deziloooooo]

I wasn't able to play the flick, however, if a large proportion of a group are offended by a word, name, , in this case, Geronimo's name , used by those not member s of the group , I would say the correct thing is to listen to them.

What is a high proportion? No clue. If we get a 60 % turn out for a election that is considered high..here regarding being slighted , in their eyes a put down, I don't see it but I have no Indian blood in my veins, any real connection so wouldn't know what is a slight and what isn't, but to dismiss their complaint out of hand, to me th.at is a sleight and a put down.

We have posters here who get upset for less then that when they feel they are being dissed on and put down so it's a real concern.

A note having nothing to do with the name, they showed Geronimo in what I thought was a plains Indian head dress, the typical stereotype large head dress with many feathers , both sides, for great deeds I believe , but he was a Apache and I have seen Apache head dress but if with any feathers usually just one or two, this one I thought was one a chief of one of the plains Indian tribes might have , any one familiar with Indian headdress?

[Deleted]

Wish you could see that one, Dez. Not just Geronimo, lots of things. If I can find a link with text I will post it. They are really mad, and serious.

[deziloooooo]

We ll then it seems to be gaining energy and it may really mean something to them...since we don't understand , we , who ever is picking the names to these wepons, are doing it because they feel they express power , destruction, positive atributes . Possible we should think words of items lesser strengths, papoose, wampum, pow wow

{methinks Lakhota might come by on the warpath after me?}

News broadcast:, The US command released the report that 101 papooses were fired at..... Just doesn't sing.

[Deleted]

Looked and looked for text to that, Dez. Can't find it. Sorry.