Drug Control vs. Pain Control

[Angel!]

Some people on SSDI are not mentally well, angel.

Good point.

[mmhmm]

Krickitt, please don't walk without your walker quite yet. I know you want to get back to normal, but if you fall that's not going to help matters at all. Use the walker until you're completely balanced and sure of your steps. You don't have to put weight on it all the time, but have it around you to help prevent falls. That's the best way to use a walker during recovery.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I don't understand why medicaid won't usually cover pain clinics with the nerve blocking stuff. It works for lots of people, but the ones I drive from pain clinics seem to have private insurance. Sure seems like a big gov't/ pharma thing to me. The shots are only every 6 months , not sure how cost measures up to pills... but what about people's health???

Because it costs a hell of a lot more. Depending upon what needs to be injected, you're talking about a couple of thousand $$/visit vs a $40 doctor visit and $10 prescription.

You also have to realize that this does not work for all types of paind. For instance, this would not have worked for my failing hip.

[swamp]

May 2, 2011 14:34:09 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Some people on SSDI are not mentally well, angel.

Ladder, lone-- what.. are you high? LOL!!!!!


Yeah, swamp-- I've had a few in my cab that I suspected were lying through their teeth about their meds being stolen.

I don't understand why medicaid won't usually cover pain clinics with the nerve blocking stuff. It works for lots of people, but the ones I drive from pain clinics seem to have private insurance. Sure seems like a big gov't/ pharma thing to me. The shots are only every 6 months , not sure how cost measures up to pills... but what about people's health??? Narcos forever can be really dangerous. This is another concern I have about Obamacare.. will they go all meds rather than surgery, alternate treatments if it gets to the single payer Obama and others want just to save $$$$$$??

I'm pretty sure NY Medicaid covers the pain clinic nerve blocks, but NY Medicaid covers lots of stuff other states don't.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Krickitt, please don't walk without your walker quite yet. I know you want to get back to normal

Actually, you want to put as little weight on your pelvis as possible. If any of the bones shift, you're going to be looking at some major problems.

Believe me, I know......it was largely the reason why my hip failed so spectacularly last fall/winter, and wound up needing another surgery before I should have needed it.

[mmhmm]

From what I've seen in hospital, I'm not particularly fond of pain clinics. Not having been to one myself, my feelings are based only on what I've seen ... people coming into the hospital with their SO bearing a bag of medications that would kill an elephant, and most prescribed by docs at the pain clinic. I know some people are resistant to narcotics, and I know high doses are required for recalcitrant pain. Still, some of the stuff I've seen is horrifying and very, very dangerous.

[mmhmm]

May 2, 2011 14:42:57 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Krickitt, please don't walk without your walker quite yet. I know you want to get back to normal

Actually, you want to put as little weight on your pelvis as possible. If any of the bones shift, you're going to be looking at some major problems.

Believe me, I know......it was largely the reason why my hip failed so spectacularly last fall/winter, and wound up needing another surgery before I should have needed it.

It really is incredibly dangerous to try to move too quickly with injuries like this one, or after surgery. While it's understandable that people just want to get well and get back into life, the result can be the exact opposite. I'm so sorry that happened to you!

[swamp]

May 2, 2011 14:43:36 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

From what I've seen in hospital, I'm not particularly fond of pain clinics. Not having been to one myself, my feelings are based only on what I've seen ... people coming into the hospital with their SO bearing a bag of medications that would kill an elephant, and most prescribed by docs at the pain clinic. I know some people are resistant to narcotics, and I know high doses are required for recalcitrant pain. Still, some of the stuff I've seen is horrifying and very, very dangerous.

I mean the injection type clinics. The pill pain clinics are just pill mils, from what I've seen. All the criminal defendant druggies get their pills from the same docs. A couple of the docs have since been prosecuted.

[floridayankee]

May 2, 2011 14:18:14 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

This is my fav thread. No fighting...

Because everybody here is too medicated!

Hey...pass the oxy!!

[swamp]

May 2, 2011 14:47:34 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

May 2, 2011 14:45:32 GMT -5 swamp said:

I mean the injection type clinics. The pill pain clinics are just pill mils, from what I've seen. All the criminal defendant druggies get their pills from the same docs. A couple of the docs have since been prosecuted.

It must be hard to catch these doctors. How would you prove that the meds that he is prescribing weren't needed?

One of the docs was an addict herself. They went through her records and she was prescribing to herself. She was also writing multiple scripts to one person that was way, way, way, above and beyond what is medically recommended. The pharmacists at the local drug store turned her and another doc in because they were getting so many controlled substance scripts from them.

The other guy just got professional disciplined, his offenses weren't as egregious as the other docs.

[mmhmm]

May 2, 2011 14:45:32 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 2, 2011 14:43:36 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

From what I've seen in hospital, I'm not particularly fond of pain clinics. Not having been to one myself, my feelings are based only on what I've seen ... people coming into the hospital with their SO bearing a bag of medications that would kill an elephant, and most prescribed by docs at the pain clinic. I know some people are resistant to narcotics, and I know high doses are required for recalcitrant pain. Still, some of the stuff I've seen is horrifying and very, very dangerous.

I mean the injection type clinics. The pill pain clinics are just pill mils, from what I've seen. All the criminal defendant druggies get their pills from the same docs. A couple of the docs have since been prosecuted.

The injection clinics are different, I'll agree. The ones that issue oral narcotics are frightening. We've actually had people die because of what they were able to get their hands on. High dose narcotics are not something that should be taken at home, ever. People tend to forget whether they've taken something, or not, or have lost the ability to use common sense and end up with four, or more narcotic patches on them. I know they hurt, and I'm sorry, but ... this just doesn't make any sense!

[billisonboard]

May 2, 2011 14:47:34 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

May 2, 2011 14:45:32 GMT -5 swamp said:

I mean the injection type clinics. The pill pain clinics are just pill mils, from what I've seen. All the criminal defendant druggies get their pills from the same docs. A couple of the docs have since been prosecuted.

It must be hard to catch these doctors. How would you prove that the meds that he is prescribing weren't needed?

Okay, back to the OP for something that can help:

According to the article, the Obama administration is pushing for all states to adopt Computerized Prescription Drug Monitoring Programs (PDMP).

[Deleted]

Thx for the advice, guys, on the walker. I do keep it close, hurts too much to walk alone. Just discovered I could then grabbed it again.
Pain clinics, I mean the nerve blocking ones, not the drug ones.
And yes, it does not work for all conditions, or all people. Some swear by it, some say it did nothing for them.

[swamp]

May 2, 2011 15:05:38 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 2, 2011 14:47:34 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

It must be hard to catch these doctors. How would you prove that the meds that he is prescribing weren't needed?

Okay, back to the OP for something that can help:

According to the article, the Obama administration is pushing for all states to adopt Computerized Prescription Drug Monitoring Programs (PDMP).

DH is a pharmacist and is all for it. He's also doesn't like the gubmint checking up on him, but the prescription drug abuse is so rampant, it has to be done.

[Deleted]

yank-- I'm the oxy pusher at the drug park with a walker.. come on down!!!

Lone-- re wishing you were high.. probably joking, but if not-- don't drink with narcos-- kills your liver. Did you break something when you fell through the roof?

[floridayankee]

May 2, 2011 15:05:38 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Okay, back to the OP for something that can help:

According to the article, the Obama administration is pushing for all states to adopt Computerized Prescription Drug Monitoring Programs (PDMP).

They're trying to get one going here in FL. We even have a non-profit foundation here in FL looking for donations to establish and maintain this program without tax dollars.

[swamp]

May 2, 2011 15:08:19 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

May 2, 2011 15:05:38 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Okay, back to the OP for something that can help:

According to the article, the Obama administration is pushing for all states to adopt Computerized Prescription Drug Monitoring Programs (PDMP).

How would that help if the doctor is willing to give an unlimited amount of the drug?

Docs are only supposed to prescribe certain amounts of certain drugs. Any script over and above the usual recommended dose will get flagged, as will multiple scripts from different docs.

[mmhmm]

May 2, 2011 15:09:57 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

May 2, 2011 15:05:38 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Okay, back to the OP for something that can help:

According to the article, the Obama administration is pushing for all states to adopt Computerized Prescription Drug Monitoring Programs (PDMP).

They're trying to get one going here in FL. We even have a non-profit foundation here in FL looking for donations to establish and maintain this program without tax dollars.

I think something like this would be an excellent idea. At least, we wouldn't have people taking multiple narcotic medications (sometimes prescribed by different doctors, and sometimes by the same). Most of these folks end up in the hospital with overdoses sooner, or later. They're expensive to treat, they're absolutely miserable, and they too often die. Something really needs to be done.

[Deleted]

I think I already said somewhere here I am okay with the drug control deal. It stops drug seeking patients that are abusing the system. I really don't think it will hurt normal people. We have it in AZ, and I have seen it work with drug seeking punks.

[mmhmm]

My mother takes Lortab for back pain. She's nearly 90 and depends on it to allow her to relax enough to sleep. She never takes more than is prescribed, and usually doesn't need her prescription refilled until up to a week after it's due for renewal. We must go to the doctor's office to pick up renewal prescriptions, as well. These cannot be called into the pharmacy. This is great, but we're not the type to "doctor shop" in order to get multiple prescriptions. Many will ... not because they're bad people, but because they're in pain and are ignorant of the consequences they're flirting with.

[swamp]

May 2, 2011 15:16:22 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

May 2, 2011 15:11:44 GMT -5 swamp said:

Docs are only supposed to prescribe certain amounts of certain drugs. Any script over and above the usual recommended dose will get flagged, as will multiple scripts from different docs.

So, when you say it gets "flagged" does it get flagged at the pharmacy? Are they the ones to turn the doctor in and if so, who do they turn him or her into?

I'm not exactly sure. I think it comes up on the computer that the patient already has x scripts out there. And I don't know who they report to. I'll have to ask DH.

[Deleted]

I had one customer turned away at 3 different hospitals as I waited. He told me when he got in my cab he was looking for pain pills and would maybe not get any since he is classified as a drug seeking patient. (They tell cabbies EVERYTHING) He went home with no drugs.

[mmhmm]

In most cases, as far as I know, lonewolf, the doctor is reported to the State Medical Board.

[mmhmm]

We won't hand out oral pain meds in our ER, either, Krickitt. It's just not the right thing to do. If a person is in pain, we may prescribe something to be taken while in the ER, but they won't leave with a prescription for more and they'll have to have a ride home. They'll leave with a referral to their own physician, or a qualified physician or clinic, if they don't have a personal doc. Needless to say, we have a lot of very angry pill-seeking patients!

[floridayankee]

May 2, 2011 15:13:42 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I think something like this would be an excellent idea. At least, we wouldn't have people taking multiple narcotic medications (sometimes prescribed by different doctors, and sometimes by the same). Most of these folks end up in the hospital with overdoses sooner, or later. They're expensive to treat, they're absolutely miserable, and they too often die. Something really needs to be done.

Insurance companies usually do pretty well catching oddities. DW's Dr prescribed a child's dose of some med she was on because of her ulcer...and the insurance company denied it until the Dr called and spoke to them about it.

[billisonboard]

May 2, 2011 15:16:22 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

May 2, 2011 15:11:44 GMT -5 swamp said:

Docs are only supposed to prescribe certain amounts of certain drugs. Any script over and above the usual recommended dose will get flagged, as will multiple scripts from different docs.

So, when you say it gets "flagged" does it get flagged at the pharmacy? Are they the ones to turn the doctor in and if so, who do they turn him or her into?

They are state programs so I am sure there is variation. Here is a link to an organization that works with states to do a quality program: www.namsdl.org/presdrug.htm

[Deleted]

Druggies AND uninsured people on pain meds used to go to mexico a lot for cheap narcos, but it is getting dangerous now. The "legal" Mexican drugs being sold illegally is a mess here, too.

I had no problem getting a prescription in the ER but I came in via ambulance and X-rays backed me up as legit. Doc wanted me in rehab, no insurance, no way, so I guess he was merciful to me with the drugs.

[Angel!]

May 2, 2011 15:47:25 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

I had no problem getting a prescription in the ER but I came in via ambulance and X-rays backed me up as legit. Doc wanted me in rehab, no insurance, no way, so I guess he was merciful to me with the drugs.

You came in with broken bones. Not the complaint of some unverifiable pain that you say can't be controlled with OTC meds.

[mmhmm]

Our docs will make exceptions in some situations, as well, krickitt. Yours would probably have been one of them.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I think something like this would be an excellent idea. At least, we wouldn't have people taking multiple narcotic medications (sometimes prescribed by different doctors, and sometimes by the same). Most of these folks end up in the hospital with overdoses sooner, or later.

And the people who have a legitmate need wind up screwed.

Within a 2 week period, I had 5 different narcotics prescribed by 4 physicians. First doctor was medically treating me until my surgery, second one was a pre-op visit and I had to go off one of the drugs for 72 hours and it was exchanged for another. 2 different narcotics were prescribed after the surgery by the doctor who wrote the release, and a refill of yet another narcotic by the operating surgeon a week later when I got my staples out.