Air Force-please help

[endofera]

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[Small Biz Owner]

It would be better if he got a degree and entered as an officer.

[phil5185]

or was too lazy to put the effort in to studying. He also was having difficulties with sleeping and had to deal with 3 deaths in the family during his 3.5 years of college. - - - We are getting him counseling because he may be depressed.

He may not be lazy, he may be doing everything that he can. He simply may not be capable of wrapping his brain around some of the upper level math/science courses - not everyone can (or should). So of course he is depressed with that realization - counseling? He may already have his head on straight - and neither the AF nor counseling can magically make him understand 2nd order differential equations or Bernoulli's principals of air flow. It may be best to allow him to work thru this on his own w/o all of the pressures of "help".

[Small Biz Owner]

It does not need to be an Aeronautical degree. When I was in any 4 yr degree would suffice for OCS Officer Candidate School or the ROTC.

[endofera]

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[SVT]

Dec 31, 2010 10:42:45 GMT -5 endofera said:

Except I know that he spent a goodly amount of time playing fantasy football and video games.

So I guess that's where you calling him lazy comes from. It's healthy to have hobbies and things to get your mind off of things that are stressful like college. However, doing it too much and interfering with school work is a problem. Of course, it'd be hard to be motivated to work on school work if you're depressed or can't understand/don't want to understand the math and science involved in aeronautical engineering.

[phil5185]

he spent a goodly amount of time playing fantasy football and video games.

Maybe that's his therapy, ie, his escape? Perhaps he has known for quite some time that AE is not for him, people's interests change between age 18 and 22. Or maybe the math/science is not his bag. Most of us learn that we won't be what we considered at age 18 - we don't all get to drive the Zamboni.

[phil5185]

it isn't quite as easy as your recruiter will make it out to be to get a bachelor's degree.

This is a common problem - students go to college to get a degree, not to get an education. This has led to the diploma mills, 2-yr 'wonder' courses, etc - lots of 'easy' degrees.

But when those 'grads' get to HR in a real company, the interviewers are trained to sort out the educated applicants. When I interview engineering applicants, I can pick the ones who got an education in the first 10 minutes - after that I finish the interview just to be polite.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

We have a similiar situation with my stepson.
When he was 16 and in junior high school, he was accepted into a grant-funded program at the community college that had the goal of an AA being completed one year after high school graduation.
He barely graduated from high school. He flunked out of the completely funded AA program six months after graduating from high school .
This is because of a lack of ambition, complete denial of the necessity of working, and the desire to be a professional video gamer.
He refused to get a job, actually ended up owing the CC $500 because he flunked out, and so, my husband made him sign up for the service.

Now, to answer your question
DSS's first choice was the Airforce. The AF is the hardest service to get into. It requires the highest ASVAB score and the best physical requirements. DSS easily had the ASVAB score (hence he could intellectually make it through both high school and college, but is just damned lazy), but he refused to lose the ten pounds the AF required him to lose to even sign-up. DH put up with this for two months, and then DSS signed up for the Navy.

Because officer's school was not an option, he had to wait six months before leaving for Basic. There are a lot of people who want in right now because it's an "easy" job to get. If you're willing to accept any job, they'll let you in almost immediately. DSS wanted to be involved in electronics somehow (which is what his AA was supposed to be for), so he had to wait six months before going to basic. He PLAYED VIDEO GAMES THE ENTIRE FREAKING TIME. (no, I'm not bitter at all about that.)

If there is truly a laziness or lack of motivation factor, the service will send them home. They don't put up with anything and have the entering population to not need to cater to anyone.

If you want more info, there is a navyformoms.com site that can be helpful. It's tricky to believe everything a recruiter says, because they're really just in it to make a quota.
Please feel free to ask me anything else, and I'll answer best I can.

Best of luck to you!

[Poppet]

If there is truly a laziness or lack of motivation factor, the service will send them home. They don't put up with anything and have the entering population to not need to cater to anyone



Yep.

[robbase]

one quick thing--going to counseling and getting him diagnosed w/ depression may cause trouble for entering the air force / military...just saying

when I was younger I went though a similar thing, when I was younger I went to an engineering prep high school and went to a engineering university college (Polytechnic University) for 1.5 years to major in aeronatutical engineering.

some family problems and other stuff, lead to a not so good GPA (didn't flunk out, but a 2.7 or so), and I basically ran away from home and joined the Army as a truck mechanic (it had the shortest commitment at the time- 2 years)

my time in the Army let me grow and appreciate things and "straighten out". Eventually I started taking a class every other 8 week semester; but unfortunately no engineering options so I started taking business classes.

fast forward and I raised my GPA and got a ROTC Scholarship for undergrad (business), got my degree with honors and got my branch of choice as an officer. 8 years later the Army let me go for a Masters (fully paid for, drew my salary and given the 15 months "off" to get it).

For me it was the best choice, my enlisted time on my own, counting on only myself for things really straightened me out, as far as engineering I also determined that I didn't care much for it

[robbase]

-"If there is truly a laziness or lack of motivation factor, the service will send them home. They don't put up with anything and have the entering population to not need to cater to anyone
Yep. "

On this I non concur, during initial trng and deployment this is usually true, however in garrison there are quite a few military people I have encountered that are "entitled" to things like: a 90 minute lunch, leaving every day at 1630; scheduling medical appointments whenever (even if it is a busy period at work); leaving at the drop of a hat for any child related issue; a 4 day pass just for breathing; etc.....

[bobosensei]

Making the switch from enlisted to officer is also not as easy as a recruiter will lead you to believe so if it is the officer corps that he wants I would say that he needs to enter as an officer. My DH is an Army Officer so I only know how that worked with him doing ROTC, but we have tons of friends in the navy, marines, and air force. The army would be the easiest place to enter as an officer, but again, like someone else said, if he isn't 100% committed and if he is found to be lazy he will quickly be weeded out.

Right now all the branches have lots of people joining because of the economy. Not all of these people are cut out for deployments and the other demands of the job. There used to be a lot of "looking the other way" to meet quotas, but that doesn't seem to happen as much anymore.

[endofera]

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[8 Bit WWBG]

I agree with the point about the upper level math classes. It is not easy to go from breezing through things in high school, to struggling in college.

[Nazgul Girl]

Our daughter is coming home for an undetermined period of time after being out on her own for 4 years. Two engagements have not worked out, and her last school district did not pick her up for the third year. She is living with us, but has told us she's going back to school. She's applied to two different schools, and is switching careers. I hope that she gets her endorsement as an English/Second Language teacher, which will open up her career possibilities in the meantime.

She is on unemployment right now, and could not get a teaching job in the area where she moved to. She is looking to switch careers to a speech/language pathologist ( master's degree). It will suit her personality and her skillset more.

We have made arrangements with her that she will pay us $300 per month, which will include her food, we will include her in our activities at our expense once a week, such as dinner out, or going to a movie, and that we want peace and quiet. She knows that we're set up for a two-person, older household, that we will not pay for her bills, and she will help us with housework and such. If there are major problems, she will leave, with great immediacy. She pays for her own health insurance.

I think that you should let any unmotivated offspring fend for themselves for awhile; it will do a lot to teach them how to survive. The more that you do for this type of person, the less they appreciate it. Kick them out now and let them couch surf for a few months, or let them join the military. It's cool to be on your own. ( Right ? )

My brother and sister-in-law just kicked their last son out, for no other reason than he is an amiable, but somewhat unmovitated critter. He's the nicest kid in the world, but doesn't like to hold a job, and is in school to a degree. He doesn't pass all of his junior college classes at a very fast rate, and just sort of lounges around in between what turn out to be temporary jobs. He owed them some money, and they just plain turned him out, with love, and he's couch-surfing at his brothers' and friends' homes, going to school, sorta working, and is doing better at passing his classes. He can return anytime for meals. Evidently, there are no hard feelings on either the parents' or their son's sides. I just found out about this at Christmas. He's such an amiable, brilliant critter that he doesn't seem to care at all about material things, but they still want him to get a better work ethic. We'll see how it all turns out.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I'm glad we're not the only ones with this issue.

My stepson didn't care about being kicked out of the Navy; he's pretty sure it's the Navy's fault anyway. He made it through basic, but they didn't let him "walk" at basic graduation. Then he made it another six months and he managed to feign illness because he knew they'd just send him home.

Dh handed him a parttime job, so DSS pays us 10% of that for rent. We (me, and supposedly dh) require him to go to school. He's supposed to save the remainder of his money for tuition and transportation to school. DSS managed to talk dh into not making him go this fall term, but I'm being a stickler about Winter term which is to start on Monday. DSS is still not registered for classes though. He's supposed to move out on Jan 15th if he's not going to school. We'll see. I won't fight Dh on this too much, but I won't be/haven't been particularly pleasant about it either.

Nazgul, was your daughter RIFd or non-renewed? The answer to that question will have a huge impact on whether or not she'll ever be able to get a job in another school district. Changing careers might be a good choice if she was non-renewed.

[Poppet]

He owed them some money, and they just plain turned him out, with love,

and he's couch-surfing at his brothers' and friends' homes, going to school, sorta working, and is doing better at passing his classes.

He can return anytime for meals.

He's such an amiable, brilliant critter that he doesn't seem to care at all about material things, but they still want him to get a better work ethic. We'll see how it all turns out.


The parents are off to a good start in that they kicked friendly junior out of the nest, but somewhat like a cuckoo bird, he's invading other peoples nests now.

He still has a big ole safety net what with friends and siblings carrying him around and his parent's still feeding him.

When the relatives and friends grow tired of seeing the friendly guy on their couch and scratching himself as he scans the contents of their fridge, maybe someone will really kick him to the curb.

There's no incentive, still, to develop that work ethic they want him to develop.

I bet this arrangement won't last. It's not demanding enough. He's still coddled.

[Nazgul Girl]

I think that she was non-renewed. We've discussed her difficulities as a teacher at length with her. Classroom control is not her strong suit. She can work as a substitute with no problem, however, and there is still a demand for ESL teachers. It's unfortunate but people can recover from these career situations by changing careers. She also has a "bumpy" personality, and I don't think that helped her abilities as a teacher. That being said, she is an excellent tutor and works very well with disadvantaged kids. She needs to be in a more traditional helper field.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Dec 31, 2010 15:37:52 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

I think that she was non-renewed. We've discussed her difficulities as a teacher at length with her. Classroom control is not her strong suit. She can work as a substitute with no problem, however, and there is still a demand for ESL teachers. It's unfortunate but people can recover from these career situations by changing careers. She also has a "bumpy" personality, and I don't think that helped her abilities as a teacher. That being said, she is an excellent tutor and works very well with disadvantaged kids. She needs to be in a more traditional helper field.

There will continue to be a demand for ELL and of course SpEd. She'd have a harder time getting a SpEd endorsement, but it might be worth it in the long run. Where I live speech pathologists are few and far between, though. Good luck to her!

[SweetVirginia]

Everyone is different of course, but for me, the Air Force was my life changer that I needed. I failed my first year of college. I was unmotivated and felt burned out from high school. I was a good kid, did not do drugs or drink and I held a part time job as a cashier at Target, but I just had no motivation to study. My father and mother had just separated and my twin sister was attending University and doing well. My mom could not afford her tuition so I joined the Air Force to help put my sister through school. I sent home all but $50 per month of my checks to pay for her education. While serving, I grew so much as a person. It was the best experience of my life and I am so grateful for it. Thankfully, I signed up for the GI bill, and when I got out of the Air Force, (3 1/2 years later) I went back to school and made the honor roll every quarter until I graduated! I am now a high school teacher and I am certified to teach History and English. For me, the Air Force was just what I needed to become a motivated and productive adult. I wish the best for you son.

[Peace77]

Has he taken the ASVAB test? There shouldn't be any commitment or requirement involved. My entire high school was given the test.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Did he get kicked out this close to graduation? With 3.5 years under his belt, he's almost got enough credits to get a degree in something. It may not be the degree of his choosing, but it'll be a degree.

At this point, it might be smarter to try to figure out what degree curriculum is close enough to the credits he's already got and try to finish up that degree instead. He may have to go an extra semester, but at least he'd be graduating from college with a degree in something and so much college won't be going to waste.

Then afterwards, if he joins the AF he'll be going in in a much stronger position.

[WannabeWealthy]

Dec 31, 2010 10:35:07 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

He may not be lazy, he may be doing everything that he can. He simply may not be capable of wrapping his brain around some of the upper level math/science courses - not everyone can (or should). So of course he is depressed with that realization - counseling? He may already have his head on straight - and neither the AF nor counseling can magically make him understand 2nd order differential equations or Bernoulli's principals of air flow. It may be best to allow him to work thru this on his own w/o all of the pressures of "help".

Phil, you and your science background!!

I joined the Air Force because I wasn't mature enough to put the discipline into studying for extra hours - which was required - to learn the higher level math and science courses. I eventually worked on B-52 bombers, and still went to school during my 7 year tenure. Eventually, I got bored of the redundant job and REALLY looked into finishing my Comp Sci degree. Guess what? At 27, I was ready and finally went through with flying colors... even if it took me not sleeping at night to understand how to solve an equation with multiple unknown variables using matrices, or taking cross-products of vectors to create an orthonormal basis in 3d space.

In short, sometimes people are too young in the mind to be prepared for the discipline it takes to succeed in college.

-M

[Nazgul Girl]

Thank you, Chloe ! I hope that it all works out for her according to her plans.

[endofera]

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[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Dec 31, 2010 17:35:03 GMT -5 endofera said:

I had to google ASVAB. He hasn't taken that. I see that Air Force requires a higher score than the rest. I guess he might just take it and see where he stands.

As for his 3.5 years, he has been dropping classes and getting D's and F's and it isn't pretty at all. He is kicked all the way out now. It would take a series of steps to get back in at this school. He might be able to go to a completely different school and transfer credits (not grades) and not have to do too much more. He went into college with 6 credit hours calculus, 3 credits chemistry, 3 credits English Composition and 6 credits German from high school and AP tests.

If he brings up Air Force again, I will make sure he knows that he will have more opportunity with a bachelors degree.

In what way will that benefit him exactly?

Even if he doesn't have a BA, he'll get paid more by having college credits. everyone starts at E-1, but you can get moved up based on # of credits. Having the degree will let him start in/at an officer's level. At this point, my knowledge stops.

They keep increasing the ASVAB minimum requirement. IF he is seriously considering joining the service, he should take it as soon as possible to see where he stands as it will determine which services he can get into and which jobs within each service he will qualify for. My son scored well--he's not dumb, just lazy. We were glad his ASVAB score allowed him more choices.

Hugs for you!!! I know this is a difficult thing to deal with.

[hoops902]

Dec 31, 2010 17:35:03 GMT -5 endofera said:

As for his 3.5 years, he has been dropping classes and getting D's and F's and it isn't pretty at all. He is kicked all the way out now. It would take a series of steps to get back in at this school. He might be able to go to a completely different school and transfer credits (not grades) and not have to do too much more. He went into college with 6 credit hours calculus, 3 credits chemistry, 3 credits English Composition and 6 credits German from high school and AP tests.

Keep in mind that most schools in order to get a degree, you must be there for a minimum period of time. You cannot generally transfer in, do your last semester, then get a degree from that school by transferring in all of your credits. If that was possible then everyone who could would go to the cheapest school and then transfer to a better school for one semester and a diploma.

It's probably a lot more work to get him into a school which will allow him to go there for a semester and get a diploma than it would be to get him re-enrolled at his current school.

[Jake 48]

My oldest son is Navy enlisted, youngest considered Navy w/ a bachelor degree, he was going to go OCS route, much better deal than enlisted. my point being that if the military is a consideration your son should get his degree before going in. That being said, I teach high school seniors part-time and I am amazed at the amount of time they spend playing fantasy football and video games, they are up all hours of the night with these games and it shows in their grades. These kids are not prepared for the commitment and discipline that is required for college. So, your not alone, kids have to choose what their priority is before they can succeed. good luck!

[endofera]

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