Air Force-please help

[robbase]

one quick thing--going to counseling and getting him diagnosed w/ depression may cause trouble for entering the air force / military for medical reasons...just saying (no one else commented on this before so I wanted to amke sure you read it)

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Dec 31, 2010 10:14:43 GMT -5 endofera said:

My son just flunked out of college -Aeronautical Engineering. He is considering the Air Force.

I think that his problem was that he was an excellent high school student and discovered that college was hard and didn't know how or was too lazy to put the effort in to studying. He also was having difficulties with sleeping and had to deal with 3 deaths in the family during his 3.5 years of college.

We are getting him counseling because he may be depressed. He is getting a job to finish paying his lease out.

My question is - is the Air Force a good idea? I don't know if he can reach his goal of being an engineer through being enlisted in the airforce. Will he have a better opportnity if he finished a 4 year degree in a different area and then joined?

If he gets diagnosed with depression, he may be ineligible to join the military.

[motherto2]

I totally understand where you are right now. DD had a friend in college that spent his first semester Sophmore year not going to class and staying holed up in his room playing WOW. Not surprisingly, he flunked out. He joined the Army, and is a medic deployed right now. i don't know if he was going through a depression, but something definitely wasn't right for him. DD went 3 years to college, and has taken this year off to join the Army reserves. We fought ad nauseum about finishing her degree first, but she's very strong willed. She plans on going back in the fall and finishing her degree, then getting deployed, going active, and even switching MOS's. She wanted to be a medic but there weren't any slots open so had to chose another one. She's been told and has seen first hand that you can change around for a while, but at some point they stop. I can't remember when that point is hit though. DD is happy to be enlisted, because she has absolutely NO desire to sit at a desk job. She eventually wants to get assigned to special forces (she can't be special forces since she's female, but can be assigned to a unit as a medic). Now, DS is at a very tough military college, and he just finished his first semester. Right before his exams started, he started talking about enlisting. I of course wasn't happy about that, because he's a born leader and great military strategist, even at this young age. I think he had 2 things going on, several of his friends are leaving soon for basic training, and he was stressing about exams and worried he wouldn't do well. i don't know alot about the AF because for whatever reason, that service is really not taken seriously around here. Most people are Army, Navy or Marines. DD is still at AIt, but she sure has matured (for the most part!) tremendously since she joined. Maybe you should steer him towards the Army, because as I said, they will allow them to move around if he's not happy with his first MOS. I also know that the Marines have a program MECEPS, that will take soldiers that are good officer potential and let them go to school (on their own dime) and then attend OCS and become an officer. There are options, but first he needs to get his head on straight. Someone mentioned the fact that going to a psychologist could be a show stopper. I'm not saying to not go if he really needs it, but if he doesn't I wouldn't push it. Good luck. We think we get them to 18 and all the stress and worry goes away. Unfortunately, my mother assures me that that part of parenting never goes away

[Carpet708]

I'm currently a civilian working for Air Force recruiting. Right now, it's difficult to get into the Air Force. Like robbase said...if your son is in counseling, and especially if he takes any medication for depression....he won't get in. Two reasons why it's so hard to get in...DoD cut our end-strength (number we can have on active duty), and the economy. Supply and demand. We have more applicants than we have slots.

[endofera]

Message deleted by endofera.

[phil5185]

Maybe he can still get an evaluation/counseling without ending up with a diagnosis somehow. Or maybe I will pay for him to join a gym where he can work out and see where he is in a few weeks. - - - I can't not get him help if he needs it but I guess he needs to know the risk

It might be better to quit "helping" so much and let him mature into a decision maker - difficult for a mom to do, but ultimately necessary. If you pressure him to get 'evaluated', get into a gym, etc, it will make you feel good as having 'done what's right' - but will it actually be helping him? BTW, is this an only child?

[endofera]

Message deleted by endofera.

[robbase]

If he can get his degree first, then get in, what is the advantage of that? Better career opportunities? Better pay? Better benefits? Better training? Living conditions?

Generally the advantage is all of the above, even if he stays enlisted he can come in with a higher rank, but coming in the service with a degree could lead to becoming an officer

in regards to help for depression, if military is a consideration, I would recommend "off book" counseling treatment (pay cash, no insurance, made up name, etc.) and not mention it to the recruiter

[robbase]

Also they will do a full physical, so hopefully he is good physically otherwise as well (no diabetes, heart murmur, etc)

[carpet708]

The Air Force is looking for the best candidates, obviously. We're looking at a score of at least 50 on the ASVAB test. Applicants have to be within height/weight limits and be healthy, not have law violations, be on meds, have poor credit history, etc. We work some waivers on minor law violations and credit history, but everything else is pretty cut and dried. Your son's college background would help, not hurt him as long as he has some credit hours. He would advance through the first two pay grades quicker than if he had no college. Again, robbase is correct about better benefits for officers; however, it's MUCH harder to come in as an officer these days unless you're in a medical/engineering field. He's also correct about the counseling...if there's no record, there's no need for the Air Force to know. Some kids come in and blab about everything and they get disqualified. Sometimes it's better to keep things to yourself. That's just me talking, btw, not Air Force policy (my disclaimer).

[moneywhisperer]

Why is he completely dropping out instead of looking at other degree options. I would think that much of an AE degree would transfer to Mathematics or Computer Science degrees. I'd rather be looking at doing an additional 1 - 1.5 years in a revised degree than blowing the 3 years of education he did get.

Good Luck to your son.

[emptypockets]

Your son needs time to fall back and regroup. His working now to pay his rent is good; it gives him a dose of real life outside of school, real life responsibilities. You might hint at some time that maybe he would like to return home to attend community college to raise his GPA and overcome the bad grades. He cannot be selective in what is transferred from one school to another; the whole school record is transferred. He should then meet with a guidance counselor to figure a game plan to re-do the classes he failed in to raise it from an F. If he is good with his hands, perhaps trade school as an electrician or something not requiring a liberal arts degree might be a better fit. there is a great need for male nurses. If he wants to remain in the aeronautical field, there's air mechanics. You might want to do some web search on apprenticeship programs which are sponsored by the Department of Labor, Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training. We always refer to it as trade school, but it is career training with book learning and OJT on the job training in areas like electrician, plumbing, sheet metal, nursing, auto mechanics, welding, aviation repair, culinary, paralegal, and so many other career fields. Encourage. Throw out ideas for him to mull over. Don't nag; he hears you, but may not respond visibly to you. Email him some web links to check out. He'll do it when he's ready, and we'll all pray with you that it's soon. He may want to chat with your pastor or to a pastor in his area or a trusted teacher from the past or a family friend he trusts. Every person needs a mentor that's not necessarily family. He's looking for ideas on how to deal with this so he can formulate his plans on moving forward and take back his future.

[Opti]

"As for his 3.5 years, he has been dropping classes and getting D's and F's and it isn't pretty at all. He is kicked all the way out now. It would take a series of steps to get back in at this school. He might be able to go to a completely different school and transfer credits (not grades) and not have to do too much more. He went into college with 6 credit hours calculus, 3 credits chemistry, 3 credits English Composition and 6 credits German from high school and AP tests. "

I don't know anything about the AF but I do know about engineering and depression. First he should think about what
he really wants and feels he's capable of. While its certainly
possible to get D's and F's simply by not doing the assignments
it also could point out its not something that comes easy enough
for him to be good at it. If the latter is the case, going into the AF
to become an engineer will prolong the agony.

I believe the majority of depression is caused by how one thinks
about things. I'd strongly recommend finding the book "Learned
Optimism" which is by Marty Sieglman. (may have misspelled the
author's name but its close.) If you can find professional help
that will teach him how to think and react better to situations
it can be helpful. If they label and drug him maybe not so much.
Good luck. I think the big key will be to listen to how he wants to
move forward and support him.

[Deleted]

Does he have any interest in education? I'm actually not a big fan myself... lol... but they are always looking for qualified math and science teachers, and i'm thinking he'd have enough of those credits, he could transfer to an education school to complete the ed theory stuff... even make the argument that he took the math/sci at a school known for them, and now wants to complete education stuff at a school known for a high rated education program...

[lynnerself]

My son is a graduate with a degree in Aeronautical engineering. He has tried for over a year to get into officers candidate school and join the Airforce. He has a great score on his test.
But the Airforce has canceled the last 2 review boards. That is, they were accepting no new officers for training due to downsizing.
He has been out of school and unemployeed for 2 years. Just graduated at the wrong time. I guess he's going back to get his masters and hope that the job market improves by the time he gets out.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I was Air Force enlisted from 01-07, my little brother enlisted in the Army in late 09. His first choice was Air Force, but it's crazy hard to get into right now. They're turning away 99% of enlisted applicants at some recruiting stations, and as somebody else mentioned, getting an officer slot is no cake walk either.

That said, here's how I see joining the military. Keep in mind this is just my opinion. I would do it in lieu of getting the degree. If he can finish a related degree in the mean time as well, that's even better, but pick a military specialty that easily translates into a private sector job. Use your military experience, and possibly security clearance, to jump right into a decent job when you separate. If you can finish a degree too, you're in a better position, but there are loads of openings that would rather have somebody with four years experience than a fresh college grad. In other words, I would only tell somebody to join up, if they've researched the specialty they want to go into and have some idea whether or not that will allow them to get into the private sector career they want later. Joining just to stall finishing college or entering the work force for a few years sounds like a really bad idea to me.

Last point, in most military specialties the enlisted guys do the work. The officers manage. For certain things that's not the case though, so he'd have to do his research first. Depending on what you want to do when you get out you have to keep that in mind when joining. Also, the longer you stay in the higher rank you attain, unless you're a screw up. As you advance in rank, you usually get more and more removed from the technical aspect of whatever job you're doing. For example I was a computer operator. I knew several senior enlisted guys that retired from that career field and the only jobs they could find were things like working for Geek Squad or selling computers at Circuit City. They hadn't been actual computer techs, admins, security experts, etc. for over a decade because they spent most of their career as middle management for lower ranking computer operators. The technical experience they had was stale and companies do a lot of internal promoting to fill middle management slots, so they had a harder time job hunting than lower ranking guys who separated after one enlistment. They did get a retirement check for life that started in their late 30s or early 40s though, so maybe it's a wash.