Why are some states trying to rewrite history?

[billisonboard]

"You can't dismiss the facts that our education system is devolving into epic fail, ..."

I don't think you can prove that it is devolving. There is no accurate data on what it has been.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 17:07:04 GMT -5 steff said:

I guess you completely skipped over every post I made regarding the public school that my son is in Trae. I'm thinking it safe to assume that's because it doesn't fit into your view that all schools suck and having a degree is worthless.

as I said, so much for this discussion.

Did I say ALL US schools suck? Did I say that ALL degrees from ALL US universities are worthless? I have an engineering degree and the equivalent of a math minor from a great US university. It was a very lucrative decision to make. I follow that school closely and from what I have seen, they are even better than when I went there.

None of you have answered my question. If our public school system is so great, as Obama has implied in the past, why aren't his children going to an innercity DC school?

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 17:08:17 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"You can't dismiss the facts that our education system is devolving into epic fail, ..."

I don't think you can prove that it is devolving. There is no accurate data on what it has been.

I just linked a study by the OECD saying otherwise.

[deziloooooo]

Dec 31, 2010 17:07:04 GMT -5 steff said:

I guess you completely skipped over every post I made regarding the public school that my son is in Trae. I'm thinking it safe to assume that's because it doesn't fit into your view that all schools suck and having a degree is worthless.

as I said, so much for this discussion.

Couldn't have said it better..was thinking the same thing..word for word..for that..a positive watch your # go up.

[steff]

Because you don't throw the Presidents kids into a public school. Common sense. There is undoubtedly less disruption in a private school, better security and ability to control who gets close to the girls. Like it or not, he is the President and his kids are targets for those that are against him and less than sane. They have to be protected and IMO, that is easier to do in a private school.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 17:14:48 GMT -5 steff said:

Because you don't throw the Presidents kids into a public school. Common sense. There is undoubtedly less disruption in a private school, better security and ability to control who gets close to the girls. Like it or not, he is the President and his kids are targets for those that are against him and less than sane. They have to be protected and IMO, that is easier to do in a private school.

Riiiight, go on believing that. If that were the case, why not a less prestigious private school instead of one of the nation's most expensive? I lived next to one that was less prestigious but just as good, and it had 25 acres of peace and quiet, 15 minutes from the city.

[steff]

and now you move the goal posts... it's not just going to a private school that is the problem, now it's an expensive private school that is the problem.

[deziloooooo]

"None of you have answered my question. If our public school system is so great, as Obama has implied in the past, why aren't his children going to an innercity DC school?"
==================================================
I have two grandkids going to private school, cost a fortune..their own public school is excellent..why are they going private..they, kids, are bright..there are some advantages ..the parents want to give them that little advantage if there..they can afford it.
Trae... take a step back your really reaching now, I would suggest you , however you won't so why not have the last word on this, I know it's important to you. Be my guest.
Ciao for now on this one.

[steff]

If I could afford to put my kiddo in a private school, I would have done it on day 1. We knew he was "advanced" at an early age and I did check into private schools because of that. There was no way for us to afford it. So I learned to work the public school system to get him the most advantages I could for him.

Like any parent would.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 17:17:31 GMT -5 steff said:

and now you move the goal posts... it's not just going to a private school that is the problem, now it's an expensive private school that is the problem.

Actually no, I am demonstrating that you will always find a way to excuse anything the Democrats do, Obama included. Just change the party affiliation with the platform and you are silent.

I hold men to account for their actions, not their words. He is a hypocrite. If it really and truly wasn't about getting the best free ride at taxpayer's expense for his kids, he wouldn't be sending them where he is.

[deziloooooo]

Dec 31, 2010 17:20:18 GMT -5 steff said:

If I could afford to put my kiddo in a private school, I would have done it on day 1. We knew he was "advanced" at an early age and I did check into private schools because of that. There was no way for us to afford it. So I learned to work the public school system to get him the most advantages I could for him.

Like any parent would.

;D and I am THROUGH
oops ..now it the mention of Obama..lordy , how did he get into this, poor guy , in any discussion..and out of know where here he comes...OBAMA..like it's a lightning rod.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 17:20:18 GMT -5 steff said:

If I could afford to put my kiddo in a private school, I would have done it on day 1. We knew he was "advanced" at an early age and I did check into private schools because of that. There was no way for us to afford it. So I learned to work the public school system to get him the most advantages I could for him.

Like any parent would.

But I thought we have progressed in our public schools? I thought they are top tier?

[traelin0]

LOL c'mon you guys, you get so frustrated when I challenge your belief sets with logic. What is so wrong with that? Present me with some evidence that our public school system is worth the price we pay for it. That's all I ask.

[steff]

would you please point out where, at any point in this discussion, I have mentioned Democrats or (until YOU brought him up) the President?

and please also point out where, before YOU brought politics into it, I was in anyway "defending/excusing" Democrats?

thank you....

[deziloooooo]

The Party's Over, it's time to call it a day.
They've burst your pretty balloon and taken the moon away.

It's time to wind up the masquerade.
Just make your mind up the piper must be paid.

The Party's Over.The candles ficker and dim.
You danced and dreamed through the night,
it seemed to be right just being with him.

Now you must wake up, all dreams must end.
Take off your make up, The Party's Over.
;D
It's all over, my friend

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 17:28:22 GMT -5 steff said:

would you please point out where, at any point in this discussion, I have mentioned Democrats or (until YOU brought him up) the President?

and please also point out where, before YOU brought politics into it, I was in anyway "defending/excusing" Democrats?

thank you....

You're right, I have to erase my mind of past conversations on MSN.

I expect you all to bring your A game if you're going to debate topics like this. Give me some logic and evidence as to your belief set on the American public school system. I don't even want links. I just want some macro-evidence that we as a nation are succeeding with our students.

[steff]

and clearly, reading comprehension is also an issue. My son has been in this new "experimental" Charter school for 3 years. Nothing like this was available when he was 5 years old (he's now 16). AT THAT TIME, when he was just starting school, I looked into private schools because there was nothing "advanced" offered in his public school. And that is also where I then pointed out, that I learned how to work the public system to get him as far ahead as I possibly could, THEN this school was started and lucky for him, her literally won the lottery draw and was accepted.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 17:30:33 GMT -5 steff said:

and clearly, reading comprehension is also an issue. My son has been in this new "experimental" Charter school for 3 years. Nothing like this was available when he was 5 years old (he's now 16). AT THAT TIME, when he was just starting school, I looked into private schools because there was nothing "advanced" offered in his public school. And that is also where I then pointed out, that I learned how to work the public system to get him as far ahead as I possibly could, THEN this school was started and lucky for him, her literally won the lottery draw and was accepted.

OK, so we agree that our public school system is in the best case, average (and the most expensive in the world to boot). Thanks, conversation over.

[steff]

I expect you all to bring your A game if you're going to debate topics like this. Give me some logic and evidence as to your belief set on the American public school system

******************************************

You were the one who brought politics into it and made the judgements based on what you "think" are others political stances and beliefs. Not me.

and now I'm really done, clearly you aren't willing to see the examples of the good that is now being attempted with public education and have already made your mind up on what everyone else "thinks". No point in continuing to discuss this with you.

[traelin0]

Don't worry about it, steff. Your reply above proved my point all along.

[steff]

why because 10 years ago there were no programs like the one my son is currently in? Or because now there is at least 1 state that is attempting to do something different to teach students and give them a better shot at college?

Oh yeah, that definately proved how bad Dems are. What a joke you turned this discussion into with stupid politcal BS.

[Deleted]

Steff, I agree that there are some good public schools that actually challenge, engage and make kids think. However, they are few and far between. And usually just for the upper grades; what about the fundamental first years??

I had posted this on another thread earlier, obviously it is more on topic here

My mom was a (good) public school teacher who became sick and tired of receiving the same benefits/pay as the teachers who did the least amount of mediocre work they could get away with. It makes me sick that some teachers are rewarded for second(or third)-rate skills when it involves our future, but there is just no incentive today with unions, government reform, etc

I have been doing research on home-schooling and if I can only convince dh that is the way I want to go. I can't imagine anything more fulfilling than to raise our children with self-driven initiative to learn the truth. However, even with homeschooling there are now regulations that have to be met (albeit these are state laws, now) and I'm almost positive that with the recent growth of home-schooling (some numbers are estimating 4-6% of all children in US are home-schooled) the federal government will try to regulate for the "safety of our children".

Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=128&page=56#ixzz19jP4M05o

[steff]

Don't you think Rose, that the improvements have to start somewhere? And that if the "few and far between" schools are successful that more programs like that will be started? And I agree, there should be more opportunity in the early years. My son spent his kindergarden year in the 1st grade classroom. It was the best I could get for him at the time.

I'm at least happy to see some attempt at improving the education system....isn't at least a start in that direction a good thing?

[billisonboard]

"even with homeschooling there are now regulations that have to be met"

Remember they are not only educating their children, they are educating our fellow citizens. I am glad that parents can not just train their future star athlete in sports.

[Deleted]

I absolutely agree that it is a start, but it sounds like you son's school has received a lot of support from the private sector and is in an urban area. What about those of us that don't have those resources available?

I live in a more rural where these advancements are not an option and most probably will not be there when it is time to enroll my oldest into school.

[steff]

Sorry, but no we are not in an urban area. Before this opportunity, my son was in one of the smallest school clusters in the state. Large district, but it covers the rural areas, many many small towns with small populations.

[deziloooooo]

There are things I have no concept with..My daughter lives in Concord , Mass..the place , Lexington/Concord..granted lots of $ but also still farms, farming people..smaller homes too , expensive too but what isn't in Mass, and as we passed the high school , it's to be replaced, cost $80 mollion, for a high school..so help me.
Actually the fild house is not included..there are no state matching funds so that sum is trying to be raised privatly with no matching..effect the taxes..total setimated is 85-97 million, it is in line with neighboring new high schools but for this older one, it's like , www.concordpublicschools.net/schoolcommittee/attachments/2010-12-14-AT.pdfWHAT are you NUTS...

[Deleted]

Dec 31, 2010 18:04:22 GMT -5 steff said:

Sorry, but no we are not in an urban area. Before this opportunity, my son was in one of the smallest school clusters in the state. Large district, but it covers the rural areas, many many small towns with small populations.

My apologies for assuming (you know what they say about that!) when you said GA and the CDC I immediately thought Altanta.

[steff]

No, we don't live in Atlanta. We are NE of Atlanta and not in the same county as Atlanta or the Atlanta burbs. We live closer to Athens in a cluster of small towns.

[Shirina]

So our kids are average readers, average scientists, and completely ignorant in math.

Some time ago in China, there was a major earthquake with tens of thousands dead. I don't remember the city or the year, but there is one thing I do remember: The kids were still studying for their examinations. There was an article with photos that literally showed students sitting in the rubble studying while bodies were still being pulled from the rubble.

This is why some nations out-score Americans on tests, but is that the kind of culture we truly desire? A culture where even a major national disaster does not put a hold on school work? Imagine if our kids had to sit on the rubble of the WTC studying for their exams while their parents are being pulled from the debris.

Many nations also have a weed-out process where only the best and brightest even make it to high school, so we're not exactly competing on a level playing field. In some cultures like S. Korea, kids are severely beaten (to the point of abuse) if they score anything less than an A. In India, it's not uncommon for students to spend 12+ hours per day every day studying.

But all of that comes with a very high price.