Why are some states trying to rewrite history?

[billisonboard]

"bills, not in my private school."

Oh, I understand now why you make your claim about the "average 8th grader".

[traelin0]

Degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on anymore. Look at who is running our economy into the ground, a Princeton PhD with no real-world (apprenticeship) experience. He has been wrong about every major economic event since he became FED Chair.

I'll take a degree from Beijing over Princeton any day of the week, given the results I've seen in my career.

[billisonboard]

Dec 31, 2010 16:11:19 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

SO-- what is this talk I hear about schools doing away with teaching history at all??

Not a clue. Someone in the back of your cab say it?

[deziloooooo]

trae I am glad for you , not arguing the benefits, but will stay with my thoughts, just not the way things are for 8th graders, reality of.
DC has had great improvements in education, the young mayor who pushed that was defeated in the last election but is leaving knowing he did it correctly, that he lost in the election means nothing, he did it correctly and it will be DC's loss.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:25:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"bills, not in my private school."

Oh, I understand now why you make your claim about the "average 8th grader".

bills, my private school spent less per capita than our govt. does in most public schools. The unions and the federal education system have turned our nation into an average developed nation in terms of reading and a bottom of the barrel nation in terms of math. These are facts, I can provide links if I get the time.

[steff]

You may think they aren't worth anything Trae, but when my son was given the opportunity to take 2 years of college while still in high school, and cost me nothing, it was an opportunity that couldn't be passed up. And he's not being bored in regular high school because he's so far beyond that level of work. He's being challenged and learning how to work hard for what he wants to achieve. I can't see how that's ever a bad thing for kids to learn. And any step up in this day is a good thing also IMO.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:28:08 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

trae I am glad for you , not arguing the benefits, but will stay with my thoughts, just not the way things are for 8th graders, reality of.
DC has had great improvements in education, the young mayor who pushed that was defeated in the last election but is leaving knowing he did it correctly, that he lost in the election means nothing, he did it correctly and it will be DC's loss.

I'm from DC and was raised in a poor family. Their schools are horrendous. Parents love the voucher system because they want their kids out of there at any opportunity they can get. The teachers are also horrible.

[billisonboard]

Dec 31, 2010 16:28:49 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

Dec 31, 2010 16:25:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"bills, not in my private school."

Oh, I understand now why you make your claim about the "average 8th grader".

bills, my private school spent less per capita than our govt. does in most public schools. The unions and the federal education system have turned our nation into an average developed nation in terms of reading and a bottom of the barrel nation in terms of math. These are facts, I can provide links if I get the time.

I look forward to seeing the causal relationship you suggest proven.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:29:42 GMT -5 steff said:

You may think they aren't worth anything Trae, but when my son was given the opportunity to take 2 years of college while still in high school, and cost me nothing, it was an opportunity that couldn't be passed up. And he's not being bored in regular high school because he's so far beyond that level of work. He's being challenged and learning how to work hard for what he wants to achieve. I can't see how that's ever a bad thing for kids to learn. And any step up in this day is a good thing also IMO.

I want my children to go to a challenging environment in high school and before, but after that there are only 3 universities in America that I would send them to. Just saying.

[deziloooooo]

"I'll take a degree from Beijing over Princeton any day of the week, given the results I've seen in my career
===========================================================
Your to set in your thoughts , ideas , not open to anything but what you believe is the way tre-- knows.
Top universitys of the world are still in the states..thats why so many foreigners are coming here for their advanced education and then our great system of making sure the majority leave our shores after wards ,[that is nuts} so many want to stay, thus depriving us of their ideas and superior minds. {sigh}

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:31:49 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I look forward to seeing the causal relationship you suggest proven.

Look at the differences between the average private school and average public school. Eliminate the similarities. What are you left with?

A one-nation educational policy is as effective today as it was when the Khanate created the first publicly funded education system. It doesn't work because each region has different needs.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:33:03 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

"I'll take a degree from Beijing over Princeton any day of the week, given the results I've seen in my career
===========================================================
Your to set in your thoughts , ideas , not open to anything but what you believe is the way tre-- knows.
Top universitys of the world are still in the states..thats why so many foreigners are coming here for their advanced education and then our great system of making sure the majority leave our shores after wards ,[that is nuts} so many want to stay, thus depriving us of their ideas and superior minds. {sigh}

If basing my "ways" on empirical evidence is being rigid, then yes, I am. I am even less impressed with our education system today than my mother was when she chose to send me to private school.

[billisonboard]

"I'm from DC and was raised in a poor family. "

Yet went to a private school which showed some dedicate to education by someone. That is what is significant. Blame government, unions, etc, etc, etc. It is simply that there is a lack of dedication that makes the difference. Change everything you want and if that doesn't change, results will not change.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:36:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"I'm from DC and was raised in a poor family. "

Yet went to a private school which showed some dedicate to education by someone. That is what is significant. Blame government, unions, etc, etc, etc. It is simply that there is a lack of dedication that makes the difference. Change everything you want and if that doesn't change, results will not change.

bills, those private school teachers chose less pay to teach in a safer environment where they could be more open-ended in their teaching methodologies. I remember my AP History teacher telling us how educating us how to think was so much more important than the money he could make in a stuffy university tenure or in a dingy innercity public school.

My ex-fiance had no desire to become unionized or teach in craptastic ESL-esque schools. Why would she want to have a subpar curriculum forced upon her? You're never going to get the best and brightest teachers in the innercity. Allow them to arm themselves and maybe, but LOL that isn't going to happen because those cities are run by anti-gun nuts.

[deziloooooo]

1 plus 1 is 2 in one area, and 3 in another? The father of our country is known as George Washington in one area and as Martha Washington in another? Possible all those of color are deficient in many things compared to the white race thus our leaders have put up laws to protect the white race from being contaminated versus another part of the country teaches that all are created equal and all have the same rights to being treated equally by their government. Things like that? different needs?

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:42:15 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

1 plus 1 is 2 in one area, and 3 in another? the father of our country is known as George Washinton in one area and as Martha in another? Possible all those of color are deficient in many things compared to the white race thus our leaders have put up laws to protect the white race from being contaminated versus another part of the country teaches that all are created equal and all have the same rights to being treated equally by their government. Things like that? different needs?

1 + 1 = 2 everywhere, but why is it that Americans on average take more years to learn basic axioms? Is it because we have lower IQs? I don't think so. Part of the problem is also the influx of these immigrants who don't speak a lick of English. Why are our teachers being forced to deal with this?

We need to stop focusing on rote memorization. We need apprenticeships. Let the states deal with these issues.

[traelin0]

If our public schools are so great, as Obama used to imply before being elected, why did he choose to send his kids to one of the most prominent private schools in the country? The school they are going to is untouchable for plebes like me.

[deziloooooo]

"anti-gun nuts."
================
Know you are saying you want teachers, educaters to be armed in a class room?
Have you ever spent time in a inner city classroom. I know some one who went and got his teaching certificate and pplied to a inner city school system to teach, his field was actuary at a Insurence company, making hugh, not big bucks, was semi retired in a only one would be kept type business decision, he lost, and wanted to give it two years. He said there were some problems , not so much with his students but the burocratic paper that he wasn't happy with but he felt he did well with the kids and noticed most of his colleges were also very dedicated..he is back in privae now, making hugh dollers again in San Francisco area.

[steff]

If only 3 colleges are good enough, then it's a good thing you aren't the only one out there to judge whether or not the degree my son gets is acceptable or not. And nothing like basically telling kids that no matter how hard they work to get into college, that it's still just not good enough. You'll never get any improvements with that kind of attitude. At least all the businesses working with my son's school are willing to look for and foster effort & achievements in hopes of improving the work force in the future.

[billisonboard]

"We need to stop focusing on rote memorization."

"Ask the average 8th grade civics student today if they know whose writings Thomas Jefferson based the Declaration on, and they couldn't tell you."

[deziloooooo]

/quote]
" Part of the problem is also the influx of these immigrants who don't speak a lick of English. quote]"
;D Ahh now we have it , there is the problem , LOL..finally we have discovered it.

[Deleted]

No comment.
Wait-- I will comment. Special consideration to ANY students due to ANYTHING about their birth, is wrong. Not in this modern age. No-- no way.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:51:56 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

"anti-gun nuts."
================
Know you are saying you want teachers, educaters to be armed in a class room?
Have you ever spent time in a inner city classroom.

YES.

Dec 31, 2010 16:51:56 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

I know some one who went and got his teaching certificate and pplied to a inner city school system to teach, his field was actuary at a Insurence company, making hugh, not big bucks, was semi retired in a only one would be kept type business decision, he lost, and wanted to give it two years. He said there were some problems , not so much with his students but the burocratic paper that he wasn't happy with but he felt he did well with the kids and noticed most of his colleges were also very dedicated..he is back in privae now, making hugh dollers again in San Francisco area.

Teaching IMHO should never be about the money. But if teachers are not given the freedom to teach, let alone to defend themselves in a classroom of hoods, then it's going to get progressively worse.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:53:53 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

"We need to stop focusing on rote memorization."

"Ask the average 8th grade civics student today if they know whose writings Thomas Jefferson based the Declaration on, and they couldn't tell you."

It becomes naturally known if children are taught how Jefferson and the Stoics THOUGHT. Teach children the concept of inalienable rights and sovereign individualism and you will be surprised how revolutionary their thought processes evolve.

[steff]

Ah well, looks like it's time to bash schools and not talk about the good that is at least being attempted. Nothing like ignoring any actual progress that is put out there and just complaining about everything instead.

So much for this discussion.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 16:57:58 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

" Part of the problem is also the influx of these immigrants who don't speak a lick of English. quote]"
;D Ahh now we have it , there is the problem , LOL..finally we have discovered it.

That is just part of it, but it was not a problem when I was in school. You can't dismiss the facts that our education system is devolving into epic fail, and it is NOT due to lack of spending.

[deziloooooo]

" they couldn't tell you"
==============================
They couldn' tell you..damn , I couldn't tell you..how about a hint, LOL... This is to much in a way..need a break{Me so bad not knowing that} possible a hint might help, refresh my mind, but then again, probably not aware of who that one would be..Aristotol, Plato, Homer?? oh woe, oh woe

"Teaching IMHO should never be about the money."
====================================
Another great idea..forget they, teacher also have to eat, be housed, clothesed, take care of their families, they do have families you know, have needs, ..possible they should get a day off every two weeks to stand at the medians as the cars go by , near the traffic lights and as they, automobiles, are stopped by the red light they could have a sign, "No not a veteran, a teacher, need more help then the vets, please " and pass the collection can.

[traelin0]

Dec 31, 2010 17:01:53 GMT -5 steff said:

Ah well, looks like it's time to bash schools and not talk about the good that is at least being attempted. Nothing like ignoring any actual progress that is put out there and just complaining about everything instead.

So much for this discussion.

Is this progress? How much unionizing and money will create "progress"? So our kids are average readers, average scientists, and completely ignorant in math.

news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101207/ts_alt_afp/educationusoecd

[billisonboard]

"It becomes naturally known ..."

okay

[steff]

I guess you completely skipped over every post I made regarding the public school that my son is in Trae. I'm thinking it safe to assume that's because it doesn't fit into your view that all schools suck and having a degree is worthless.

as I said, so much for this discussion.