Channeling The Clash

[raeoflyte]

Hes supposed to be opening a new account just for him and we'll deposit enough to pay joint bills in the joint account.

Hes also supposed to be setting up his office as his bedroom.

I probably need to start talking to lawyers. I have 1 that I've already spoken to because of my parents estate stuff and I liked him. I am concerned that divorcing puts dh in a more vulnerable position as a trans person than he is as a legally married trans person. Especially since his family sucks. I want to get my assets protected and separate that piece, but if we can stay married just separated and do that I will if it is helpful to dh.

[TheOtherMe]

Rae,  no advice but 

[azucena]

Loaded question- how much do your kids and esp dc know?

Him yelling at you in therapy isn't warranted. I'm glad the therapist stepped up and said knock it off.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 15, 2025 20:47:08 GMT -5 azucena said:

Loaded question- how much do your kids and esp dc know?

Him yelling at you in therapy isn't warranted. I'm glad the therapist stepped up and said knock it off.

Pretty sure dc knows nothing. We were at an intake with another new psych who specifically asked how much dc worries about other people/other people's relationships and specifically asked about worrying about parents relationship with each other and dc had 0 concerns.

Ds might know more since he sees us in the car for our therapy appointments sometimes.

[lurkyloo]

All the hugs, rae.

A quick google suggests that legal separation is indeed a thing in your state and might work well while the kids are still at home.  I wonder a little though what happens if one of you meets someone new.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 16, 2025 18:54:42 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

All the hugs, rae.

A quick google suggests that legal separation is indeed a thing in your state and might work well while the kids are still at home.  I wonder a little though what happens if one of you meets someone new.

My initial reaction is please dear God let him meet someone new! He will I'm sure, sooner than later. I think his freak out is less about me and more about the fear of being single.

Im trying not to worry about new so's and the kids, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a concern.

[raeoflyte]

He keeps saying he cant/won't accept a separation. That he'll respect any boundaries I have but that this doesn't change anything for him. I didn't pay attention to that earlier, but I'm starting to. We were heading out at the same time today and dh asked me if I wanted a hug. I 100% do not. I know he does, but theres no reason to think I would.

[raeoflyte]

Something I need to work on is my need for collaboration because I'm not going to get that in this situation.

[azucena]

What does that mean that he won't accept a separation? You have a choice in this, don't let him take that away. Does he think pushing you by not accepting this will somehow make you back off rather than head straight for divorce?

Sorry if I'm projecting and like someone here told me it is okay if YOU change your mind but I don't think you're going to and he's just proving out that he's incapable of working on himself to allow that to potentially happen.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 17, 2025 0:00:36 GMT -5 azucena said:

What does that mean that he won't accept a separation? You have a choice in this, don't let him take that away. Does he think pushing you by not accepting this will somehow make you back off rather than head straight for divorce?

Sorry if I'm projecting and like someone here told me it is okay if YOU change your mind but I don't think you're going to and he's just proving out that he's incapable of working on himself to allow that to potentially happen.

At first I thought that was just his way of saying he didn't want this to happen. This week it felt more like hes leaning into this idea that nothing changes for him. That he'll be a devoted spouse trying everything to fix things no matter what I do. Like his asking if I needed a hug. That's been a focus of therapy for months. I haven't wanted or needed a hug from him for a long time. Other than desperation and projection there is no reason to think that would change now.

It doesn't make sense to me. Its a stark example of life happening to him and hes focusing imo on a random detail instead of trying to move forward. Now I'm projecting but I think it centers him in his narrative of being a redeemed villain and let's him turn me into the bad guy. Which is fine but complicates the convo with the kids when we get to that part.

He shared with me that he has set up an individual therapy session with his old therapist and is following up with the therapist we did ketamine assisted therapy for his 2nd session. I think hes trying to prove to me that hes listening to me. Ill talk more with the therapist tomorrow but I think I need to shut down any more talks about what got us here and only engage in how we move forward separately. I am hoping that individual therapy for him helps him.

[raeoflyte]

I still dont see a way to physically separate with both of us having access to the kids with dc where theyre at and that makes this so much harder. I think I mentioned that the marriage counselor asked me if I was focusing on that because I'm not ready to move forward but thats not it. I cancel something every week because dc needs me to stay with them, and in those instances we're talking about anything from a 20 minute walk to a 3 hour outing - even when dh is home and available. I dont see a way that they can regularly go 24+ hours away from me.

Dh and I's struggles arent new. I know Im only focusing on the bad right now, but its been years and years of bad, but I always felt like we coparented well. That we were on the same page there on almost everything. Even that is different as they get older. Dh is so focused on fixing things (not just us) that I think it affects his relationship with the kids.

[azucena]

FWIW, what you're sharing makes sense to me as I'm also parenting Teen who self harms. I get what it's like to know that you're the only one they truly trust and how that means you're constantly on call 24 hours a day and how that affects other relationships.

How old is dc? Can you temporarily have sole custody until they are back on track?

I don't think your DH can keep up the devoted spouse schtick for very long based on what you've shared over the years. Heck mine couldn't even keep up the devoted dad routine.

I've been watching life happen to X too and him getting hung up on fixing 1-2 minor things and thinking that makes it all better for him, me or the kids. It's also clear that his narrative is that I was super difficult to live with and maybe even controlling. I think your kids are smart enough to see how much you do for them and how much you care so his villain story doesn't really work.

[azucena]

I also see how hard you're thinking through and even working to figure out what's best for dc first and foremost and even what might be better for DH bc of his trans status even though that could no longer be your burden to carry. Not remotely the same as your H might not be physically safe in this current world but it's kinda like me worrying about X finances and healthcare on some level and having to shift my focus back to me and the kids and my responsibilities there bc I'm no longer responsible for him. He made choices that led to that and I gave him every chance.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

As the saying goes Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

I agree with your idea to talk to the therapist about switching to divorce counseling.  There is no need to continue to rehash why you made the decision, you've made it.  DH can rehash it all he wants in private therapy.  To get the most out of your sessions together you should be trying to move forward IMO.

If he's even willing to cooperate.  If he's not honestly I would drop marital counseling, there is no marriage to save anymore.  Focus instead on getting the most out of the individual sessions she offered you to do your own work on navigating separating and future coparenting.

You can't control him or how he responds, which I know deep down you are aware of.  It would be awesome if he accepted your decision and was instead focused on what is best for the kids going forward.  If he was truly capable of that you wouldn't be divorcing him.  You're going to have to step back and let him implode.


You can only focus on yourself, how you respond to him and your relationship with your kids.

[azucena]

Even if he won't admit that it's divorce counseling, maybe you can still work on your communication and planning in joint therapy using the therapist as a mediator to keep him on track. Just explicitly tell her that in your single session.

[lurkyloo]

Jun 16, 2025 21:53:01 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 16, 2025 18:54:42 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

All the hugs, rae.

A quick google suggests that legal separation is indeed a thing in your state and might work well while the kids are still at home.  I wonder a little though what happens if one of you meets someone new.

My initial reaction is please dear God let him meet someone new! He will I'm sure, sooner than later. I think his freak out is less about me and more about the fear of being single.

Im trying not to worry about new so's and the kids, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a concern.

Yikes…

It takes two people to stay married and just one to say this isn’t working, regardless of any magical thinking that might be flying around 

[finnime]

raeoflyte, .

You're in the thick of it, and so is your H even though he's abjectly refusing to accept it. It will go forward. The marriage hasn't been working for a long time. Extra for your kids.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 17, 2025 9:35:35 GMT -5 azucena said:

FWIW, what you're sharing makes sense to me as I'm also parenting Teen who self harms. I get what it's like to know that you're the only one they truly trust and how that means you're constantly on call 24 hours a day and how that affects other relationships.

How old is dc? Can you temporarily have sole custody until they are back on track?

I don't think your DH can keep up the devoted spouse schtick for very long based on what you've shared over the years. Heck mine couldn't even keep up the devoted dad routine.

I've been watching life happen to X too and him getting hung up on fixing 1-2 minor things and thinking that makes it all better for him, me or the kids. It's also clear that his narrative is that I was super difficult to live with and maybe even controlling. I think your kids are smart enough to see how much you do for them and how much you care so his villain story doesn't really work.

Dc is 12. Ill try to think on sole custody options and talk to the therapists too. I feel like they won't build that comfort level if even more access is removed, but its not like theres a lot happening now either to build that relationship.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 17, 2025 9:38:09 GMT -5 azucena said:

I also see how hard you're thinking through and even working to figure out what's best for dc first and foremost and even what might be better for DH bc of his trans status even though that could no longer be your burden to carry. Not remotely the same as your H might not be physically safe in this current world but it's kinda like me worrying about X finances and healthcare on some level and having to shift my focus back to me and the kids and my responsibilities there bc I'm no longer responsible for him. He made choices that led to that and I gave him every chance.

I still feel responsible for him. I dont know how to turn that off even if I should. So much that I am looking back on makes me cringe. It all should have been the last straw.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 17, 2025 9:53:33 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

As the saying goes Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

I agree with your idea to talk to the therapist about switching to divorce counseling.  There is no need to continue to rehash why you made the decision, you've made it.  DH can rehash it all he wants in private therapy.  To get the most out of your sessions together you should be trying to move forward IMO.

If he's even willing to cooperate.  If he's not honestly I would drop marital counseling, there is no marriage to save anymore.  Focus instead on getting the most out of the individual sessions she offered you to do your own work on navigating separating and future coparenting.

You can't control him or how he responds, which I know deep down you are aware of.  It would be awesome if he accepted your decision and was instead focused on what is best for the kids going forward.  If he was truly capable of that you wouldn't be divorcing him.  You're going to have to step back and let him implode.


You can only focus on yourself, how you respond to him and your relationship with your kids.

My realization on collaboration last night really hit me. It is fundamental part of who I am. My favorite part of martial arts are the drills - because everyone wins! (Which is not the right answer - the drills are supposed to teach muscle memory so you can take someone out without conscious thought). Let's hope I never need to defend myself.

It seems so clear to me that he is miserable in our relationship and this change would help him move forward and maybe find happiness. It is really hard for me that he won't even consider that possibility.

But you're right - its not up to me how he processes or what he believes.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 17, 2025 10:10:56 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 17, 2025 9:38:09 GMT -5 azucena said:

I also see how hard you're thinking through and even working to figure out what's best for dc first and foremost and even what might be better for DH bc of his trans status even though that could no longer be your burden to carry. Not remotely the same as your H might not be physically safe in this current world but it's kinda like me worrying about X finances and healthcare on some level and having to shift my focus back to me and the kids and my responsibilities there bc I'm no longer responsible for him. He made choices that led to that and I gave him every chance.

I still feel responsible for him. I dont know how to turn that off even if I should. So much that I am looking back on makes me cringe. It all should have been the last straw.

Like I told Az the bitch about hindsight is that it only comes from having gone through it.  We made the choices we made in those moments with the information that we had at the time.  We have to accept that, forgive ourselves and move on.

I was thinking in my head during that session that life would be WAY easier if the damn Magic 8 ball actually worked.   I told my therapist if I was capable of doing all that I wouldn't be in therapy.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 17, 2025 9:58:19 GMT -5 azucena said:

Even if he won't admit that it's divorce counseling, maybe you can still work on your communication and planning in joint therapy using the therapist as a mediator to keep him on track. Just explicitly tell her that in your single session.

I think Ill need that for a while. Especially through any more extinction bursts.

[azucena]

Jun 17, 2025 10:10:56 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 17, 2025 9:38:09 GMT -5 azucena said:

I also see how hard you're thinking through and even working to figure out what's best for dc first and foremost and even what might be better for DH bc of his trans status even though that could no longer be your burden to carry. Not remotely the same as your H might not be physically safe in this current world but it's kinda like me worrying about X finances and healthcare on some level and having to shift my focus back to me and the kids and my responsibilities there bc I'm no longer responsible for him. He made choices that led to that and I gave him every chance.

I still feel responsible for him. I dont know how to turn that off even if I should. So much that I am looking back on makes me cringe. It all should have been the last straw.

Girl - I totally feel you on this and most everything you keep writing.

He doesn't feel responsible for you in any real way except the way that it helps him. He hasn't for a long time.

DC being 12 means they are at least close to the age where they can speak on whom they feel safest with. And your initial proposal only has to be short term. And it doesn't mean that dc can't hang out with H on good days which I'm sure you'd allow if it's in their best interest to continue working on that relationship.

[chen35]

Jun 17, 2025 9:35:35 GMT -5 azucena said:

FWIW, what you're sharing makes sense to me as I'm also parenting Teen who self harms. I get what it's like to know that you're the only one they truly trust and how that means you're constantly on call 24 hours a day and how that affects other relationships.

How old is dc? Can you temporarily have sole custody until they are back on track?

I don't think your DH can keep up the devoted spouse schtick for very long based on what you've shared over the years. Heck mine couldn't even keep up the devoted dad routine.

I've been watching life happen to X too and him getting hung up on fixing 1-2 minor things and thinking that makes it all better for him, me or the kids. It's also clear that his narrative is that I was super difficult to live with and maybe even controlling. I think your kids are smart enough to see how much you do for them and how much you care so his villain story doesn't really work.

I was wondering about you temporarily getting full custody of DC as well?

ETA - nevermind, saw you addressed looking into this further down.

[geenamercile]

When someone starts yelling or threatening me or anything along those lines, and they are adults......" I think this is where we agree to disagree and end this conversation,", "Okay you do you and I do me" or even as simple as, "I am done with this line of conversation, or I am done with this line of conversation because it is no longer productive" and then switch topics or walk away.  Practicing them in your head or in the car helps, I will actually fully role play situations in the car in my head to practice the lines and have my responses more automatic. 

The situation with DC is hard, I can see where living in the same house without both being on bored would not be a healthy situation for you.  As far as dating, our agreement was no one at the house and we talked to the other before introducing them to the girls.         

[geenamercile]

Jun 17, 2025 10:10:56 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 17, 2025 9:38:09 GMT -5 azucena said:

I also see how hard you're thinking through and even working to figure out what's best for dc first and foremost and even what might be better for DH bc of his trans status even though that could no longer be your burden to carry. Not remotely the same as your H might not be physically safe in this current world but it's kinda like me worrying about X finances and healthcare on some level and having to shift my focus back to me and the kids and my responsibilities there bc I'm no longer responsible for him. He made choices that led to that and I gave him every chance.

I still feel responsible for him. I dont know how to turn that off even if I should. So much that I am looking back on makes me cringe. It all should have been the last straw.

I am not sure how to either in all honesty, after almost 6 years when ex had his surgery to remove part of his foot a few months ago, I was offering advice and answering questions.  I even considered putting him on my work health insurance, while he paid the increase.  That ended up not being needed he qualified for something else.  There is history there, and you still care.  Questions I had for myself with my ex was--- Would I answer/do this for a stranger?  Would I answer/ do this for a friend.  If the answer to the first was a yes, then I would go ahead and do it.  The second I would have to decide on how good of a friend I would do it for   There is a lot I would do for my BFF that I wouldn't do for anyone else.       

[raeoflyte]

Jun 18, 2025 5:41:48 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

When someone starts yelling or threatening me or anything along those lines, and they are adults......" I think this is where we agree to disagree and end this conversation,", "Okay you do you and I do me" or even as simple as, "I am done with this line of conversation, or I am done with this line of conversation because it is no longer productive" and then switch topics or walk away.  Practicing them in your head or in the car helps, I will actually fully role play situations in the car in my head to practice the lines and have my responses more automatic. 

The situation with DC is hard, I can see where living in the same house without both being on bored would not be a healthy situation for you.  As far as dating, our agreement was no one at the house and we talked to the other before introducing them to the girls.         

Its really just the last year that I realized how much I freeze up when dh goes down a defensive/ deflective path. My goal is to end the interaction but then I have to work to piece together what happened because Ill forget the stuff between outbursts. Add in dh's instinct to deny anything that might get him in trouble and its such an unhealthy dynamic.

I can already tell a difference now that I'm not as emotionally engaged. It will be a process for sure, but I'm hoping I don't get much more practice dealing with angry men who havent learned to regulate.

With dating...those are the rules I hope for, but thats a control I'm giving up. I d9nt think he'd even want to have someone over at our current house. Hes very concerned about what other people think and thinks the neighbors notice everything. If we're truly in separate homes though I would be surprised if he isnt living with someone within a year. I hate that and its definitely something I've thought about over the years but at this point I just have to hope.

[raeoflyte]

I had a good individual session with our marriage therapist. She was respectful of dh but validated my view on where hes at and how I need to move forward and respond.

[finnime]

You can and will learn to manage your responses to his automatic behavior. That will make a big difference. I made a list of things I needed to take care of regardless of X and went ahead and did them. It puzzled him for a while, but he caught on. Now is a good time that you're disconnecting. Worry about SO's later, after you've gotten some resolution on right now. Hang loose, mother goose.

[azucena]

Disengaging feeling healthy and therapist feedback helped me feel like I was on the right track.