Channeling The Clash

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I had a tough conversation with DH once about he had started to change but it was at a glacial pace.  I wasn't sure I wanted to wait another 20 years for his maturity to catch up to his age.  The problem for us was I matured into a 40 year old woman.  He was still Peter Pan.

Making it to where you should have been at 20 when you are in your late 40s is a very low bar.   I can acknowledge the bar and that it is better than 20 years ago but it is still not enough.  Why should I have to wait around the rest of my life to see if he can catch up to me?

I said you want us to stay married you have a VERY steep learning curve ahead of you.  I am sorry your parents did you a disservice and didn't hold you accountable in your youth but it does not then become my job to be your mother.  You need to figure it out just like all the rest of us who managed to grow up did.

I love DH very much but things could not continue as they were.  

I do not consider myself a failure at communication because I did not lay out an exact plan for what I wanted for him.  #1 it is not my job. #2 None of the rest of us got a manual for growing up.

He had figure it out himself if he wanted to stay married.  IMO that is a huge part of fixing things.  If you can't even acknowledge and deal with your problems without your wife having to hold your hand then it's not going to work.  That is still making your wife be your mother and do the heavy mental lifting for you.   

IMO your husband has been to enough therapy now with you Rae to know what he needs to do.  If he can't for whatever reason bring himself up to the level you need him to be in a time frame that you can live with that is on him.  He's had YEARS now to pull it together and hasn't.  If he is as afraid of losing you, not just your enabling, as he says he is he knows what needs to done and it isn't the bare minimum.

That is A LOT of work to put in.  Some people can do it, some people can't.    You don't owe it to anyone to sacrifice your life/time/efforts waiting to see if they can do it.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Rae - please focus on yourself and what would make you happy. 

You've sounded pretty miserable for some years now. Life is too short. 

Can you take a weekend away somewhere to think about things?

[anciana]

Rae, I am so sorry to hear how painful it is for you to even think about all the issues in your marriage. As others have mentioned, you’ve seemed not just tired, but exhausted for a long time. You’ve been carrying a very heavy load and seemed to be unequally yoked for the better part of your marriage.

You will ultimately have to make the decision for yourself and it will never be perfect. It is never the right time, or place, or situation. But you only have this one life to live and the question remains as from one of my favorite lines in Mary Oliver's poem, "The Summer Day", that ends with the question, "Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?".

I feel as if your compassionate, generous, loving nature did you a disservice in your life. Maybe if you could think of this as if it is your sister or best friend that is asking for your opinion. What would you tell her? Hoping it would help you think more about yourself as you seemed to have put yourself on the back burner very, very long time ago and forgot that you’re there. Many, many hugs to you 🤗

[raeoflyte]

May 13, 2025 9:12:52 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Sometimes there just isn't a good answer, sometimes it is picking between evils, or which of the worse options isn't the worse.  My great grandmother had a phrase- "you don't throw good money after bad,"  and even if it wasn't bad once, if it is now, it is.  Time and emotions  are a more expensive currency than cash.  There is no change without change, doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity.  What is good for the spider is bad for the fly.  When there is a will there is a way, and I have survived every bad day that has come so far.  If those seem like a lot of sangs, they are and ones that ran through my head consistently when making my decisions to leave my ex.  In the end you have to decide what is right for you, because you are really the only one who has to live with you for the rest of your life. 

So here is my very limited read on the situation for whatever it is worth.  You have had one foot out the door for awhile now.  I think you want to make the leap out, but it is fear that is stopping you.  But I don't think it is fear over what you will lose, I think it is fear over what others will think.  My ex FIL once early on in our marriage told my ex that I would end up leaving him, now his reason was because he was the SAHD, and no woman want that.  Now in the end he was right for us splitting, but no where close to right on the reason.  But I can still remember that argument and it did haunt me a bit when splitting because it was letting him be right.  The emotions tangled would be pride, annoyance, responsibility, and most likely others that makes me still upset that he was right back than about us not making it.  And yes I had to let my pride take a hit with that.  I think you are starting to become more honest with yourself, and that is a road you should continue.  As others say you have a support system here no matter which way you go.    

Its definitely fear. I keep thinking on that. I cant think of anyone who will think less of me though. Honestly everyone is waiting for me to make the decision. My parents may be disappointed but not in me just sad about the situation.

We're going to California for a week for one of dh's cousins wedding. I would have let dh go with the kids on their own but dc has been asking to see the ocean for years now and dc couldn't go without me right now.

But I'm going to talk to dh tonight.

[geenamercile]

Fingers crossed for you.  

[lurkyloo]

May 15, 2025 9:59:11 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Fingers crossed for you.  

[chen35]

Rae, hope things went well. Thinking of you!

[raeoflyte]

I told dh that vacation showed me that my feelings for him/us are not going to come back and I think we should separate. It was awful. He was crushed and heartbroken. He said some things that could be manipulative or could be an emotionally immature persons stream of consciousness. I expect anger will come next but we'll see.

He was hyper focused on what went tell the kids, thinking that they will care about the why, but I told him that I don't want to tell them anything until we have some logistics worked out because how it will affect them is what I feel like we needed to focus on.

I wanted to say hes all over the place, but when I type it out, he isnt. He's said Tell me what you want and I'll do it, I'll never give up but I won't do anything to make you uncomfortable. Hes blaming himself. We came home because dc needed me and hes tackling all the housework, unpacking, etc. I brought up that he didn't have a plan for paying for vacation and if I hadn't had something for the trip we'd have been screwed. I had brought that up before but it always got turned into a fight. And at home he asked me to give him the exact amount I spent and he'll pay me back today. That's why I think anger is coming. He says he knew but is upset with the timing. Hindsight obviously I'd do things differently.

We are going to talk more tonight and trying to have an earlier appointment with the therapist but it doesn't look like she has anything before Thursday.

My ideal is that we share the house, dh moves into the 1 bedroom unit in the triplex for his off time and I stay with my parents for mine. Sell the house after dc graduates high-school in 6 years and figure out an equity split depending if I take over payments now or if we split it. Same question with the triplex, if I pay that "rent" that could be part of the equity buy out.

Neither of us could swing current mortgage and buying the others equity out. If we sell, split equity neither of us will be able to afford a house in this area. There are only 3 houses listed under $500k and they're all 1 bedroom, under 900 square ft so we'd be moving farther out, but we still couldn't get anything close to comparable to what we have now. I really don't want to do that even though I know that is what will be recommended.

A lot depends on dh and I just don't know.

[raeoflyte]

He also asked me if I think it could be peri-menopause and if I should get my hormones checked.... He said hes been thinking that for a while but theres no good way to say that but since he didn't have anything else to lose he wanted to make sure he tried everything.

I mean, sure hormones could be affecting me, but I feel love and happiness and contentment. Im not angry or sad all the time. I just dont feel that relaxation, that dopamine hit with dh.

[anciana]

I read about your vacation and how much fun you had. I am glad that part went well. I am sorry that your DH did not receive the news better, especially as he was sort of expecting it. I think you’re right, there will be a lot of emotions and you might be in for a long weekend. I can understand his reaction but, how are you feeling about it all after it was all said and done, hope there’s some relief? Hang in there, just hang in there, and come here to vent or rant or lean in for support any time 🤗

[TheOtherMe]

I have felt from reading this forum that you have been unhappy for a long time.  You deserve better.  

I want you to feel happiness in your life instead of always being let down by DH.  You will get there.  

[raeoflyte]

May 31, 2025 15:30:35 GMT -5 anciana said:

I read about your vacation and how much fun you had. I am glad that part went well. I am sorry that your DH did not receive the news better, especially as he was sort of expecting it. I think you’re right, there will be a lot of emotions and you might be in for a long weekend. I can understand his reaction but, how are you feeling about it all after it was all said and done, hope there’s some relief? Hang in there, just hang in there, and come here to vent or rant or lean in for support any time 🤗

I was hoping I'd feel.more relief. I think theres still too much up in the air though.

[azucena]

Sorry you're joining the club. Reach out directly if you want to vent.

[raeoflyte]

Dh seems to be making it his personal mission to beat me to any household tasks. The epitome was I was already up with dc last night and they asked for a water refill and dh offered to get it - dude I'm still standing up - out of bed. I can get the water. He didn't offer to mow though so I guess it's not all household tasks.

He didn't want to talk last night. Which is fine but we'll need to today.

[TheOtherMe]

[Rukh O'Rorke]

wishing you an easy journey here, rae.

My X acted all nice and sweet at first, then turned nasty when I didn't change my mind. I think you are right to expect anger. Be prepared for a bit more than that too, just in case.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 1, 2025 9:29:54 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

wishing you an easy journey here, rae.

My X acted all nice and sweet at first, then turned nasty when I didn't change my mind. I think you are right to expect anger. Be prepared for a bit more than that too, just in case.

Thank you. I dont believe dh would ever get physical but I know the stats and wont pretend its an impossibility. Im also significantly stronger than he is in martial arts training which he knows. I couldn't take just anyone but my money is 100% on me if it came down to an altercation between dh and I.

[raeoflyte]

Today's conversation was calmer. Hes still firmly in the camp that he'll do whatever I want but he doesn't want to separate which puts it all on me. Hes still on about the hormones and thinks that our efforts to rebuild were doomed. I'll have a harsher convo if and when that comes up again.

Everything is complicated because of dc struggles right now. The only other person dc consistently feels OK with is dsis. Everything falls to me. I wanted to go to the gym yesterday but dc isn't feeling well (sick) and was worried chemistry (mental health) could go sideways and needed me to stay home. Even though dh was home. I've told him that he needs to really build that relationship with dc but even if he does it's going to take time. Dc is back to sleeping in my bed and theres just no way they're going to be ok on their own if I actually left the house for a few days.

I dont know what to do about that so right now I'm focusing on what separate but living together looks like. It would be so much easier if dh also felt like it was time to separate.

[debthaven]

raeoflyte I am heartbroken but not surprised to hear this. 

I can't remember the details, but I think maybe you co-own a rental with your parents? If that's correct, might you be able to sell your part in order to buy your DH out of the house you're all living in right now?

(Just a thought ... I can think of a ton of reasons that might not work.)

Sending you and yours the best. 

[raeoflyte]

Jun 1, 2025 16:43:16 GMT -5 debthaven said:

raeoflyte I am heartbroken but not surprised to hear this. 

I can't remember the details, but I think maybe you co-own a rental with your parents? If that's correct, might you be able to sell your part in order to buy your DH out of the house you're all living in right now?

(Just a thought ... I can think of a ton of reasons that might now work.)

Sending you and yours the best. 

That's something for me to think about. I dont think my parents want to sell it - but they would if needed. I dont want to sell it.

Rough estimates dh's equity for our house and the triplex would be $500k. Plus $150k investments. If I gave him all the cash and took a loan on the triplex for the rest it wouldn't be awesome but probably doable. Add my parents back on title to our house to offset the loan on the triplex. I'd be so cash poor. But I'm going to be no matter what. And then he'd have enough cash for an "affordable" mortgage and still more in retirement funds than he has saved on his own.

[debthaven]

Like you said raeoflyte , it's something to think about. You have time, and you know your parents will be there for you. 

[raeoflyte]

A friend invited me out to listen to her friends band at a nearby bar for a pride kick off. Dc was having a good day so I was able to go, and it was a lot of fun. Could be something I do more of hopefully.

[chen35]

Perimenopause is a bitch and can really mess with you. But in my limited experience it doesn’t change how I feell about my relationships. And you’ve been unhappy for a really long time.
Here’s hoping he comes around to agreeing this is for the best. I’ll be thinking about you.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 31, 2025 12:11:05 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

He also asked me if I think it could be peri-menopause and if I should get my hormones checked.... He said hes been thinking that for a while but theres no good way to say that but since he didn't have anything else to lose he wanted to make sure he tried everything.

I mean, sure hormones could be affecting me, but I feel love and happiness and contentment. Im not angry or sad all the time. I just dont feel that relaxation, that dopamine hit with dh.

I would have killed him on the spot.  

It is not to say hormones can't mess with us but JFC.  Yes if I just wait 28 days or start HRT I will totally change my mind about divorce.  Silly old me letting my estrogen control me unlike a man who is only controlled by rational thought. 

You've been unhappy for a long time Rae.  That it is coming out of what seems like no where to your husband is a him problem and further drives your point about becoming incompatible home.  It shouldn't be coming out of nowhere if he was as in tune with your marriage as he should be.

[azucena]

I'm def in perimenopause phase too and just don't see any connection btwn that and my failing relationship. Kinda sounds like he's looking for 'easy' external answers.

I def see a connection btwn X disconnecting from the girls as well as me that made me view him as even less of a partner. Being a good parent is high on my value list so for him not to plug into that in his own way is a huge strike. And I can def see how the girls don't trust him esp in mental health aspects as much as they trust me and that's bc he's not willing/able to put in the hard work in that area for them (or himself). I'm guessing you're seeing some of this play out with dc.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 2, 2025 9:23:24 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 31, 2025 12:11:05 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

He also asked me if I think it could be peri-menopause and if I should get my hormones checked.... He said hes been thinking that for a while but theres no good way to say that but since he didn't have anything else to lose he wanted to make sure he tried everything.

I mean, sure hormones could be affecting me, but I feel love and happiness and contentment. Im not angry or sad all the time. I just dont feel that relaxation, that dopamine hit with dh.

I would have killed him on the spot.  

It is not to say hormones can't mess with us but JFC.  Yes if I just wait 28 days or start HRT I will totally change my mind about divorce.  Silly old me letting my estrogen control me unlike a man who is only controlled by rational thought. 

You've been unhappy for a long time Rae.  That it is coming out of what seems like no where to your husband is a him problem and further drives your point about becoming incompatible home.  It shouldn't be coming out of nowhere if he was as in tune with your marriage as he should be.

It comes down entirely to physical intimacy. I've been saying loudly for 18 months very clearly I'm not interested because we've lost emotional trust and safety and I finally accepted that I dont have to put out just because physical touch is his 'love language' (I've always, always, always hated that platform).

So for him hes seen a steady decrease in physical intimacy- even before the 18 month mark and thinks it must be my hormones but didn't feel like he could bring it up.

[azucena]

Rae - I could have written that post. Several months ago, I even made a point to order Thai food more often for 3 solid weeks after having a convo that I was willing to try to rebuild that way but only if it led to emotional connection and partnership in some real way...bc he'd been using the same physical touch love language argument with me. He didn't make any changes so I feel like that shot his argument all to pieces and me feeling even less emotional connection basically confirmed mine.

Meanwhile, guess what my love language is? Acts of service. So is it any real surprise that I don't feel loved when he does almost nothing around the house?!

Ensue circular argument/misunderstandings for the last 5+ yrs ---------> I can't keep waiting for him to figure this out with me/for me.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 2, 2025 9:25:20 GMT -5 azucena said:

I'm def in perimenopause phase too and just don't see any connection btwn that and my failing relationship. Kinda sounds like he's looking for 'easy' external answers.

I def see a connection btwn X disconnecting from the girls as well as me that made me view him as even less of a partner. Being a good parent is high on my value list so for him not to plug into that in his own way is a huge strike. And I can def see how the girls don't trust him esp in mental health aspects as much as they trust me and that's bc he's not willing/able to put in the hard work in that area for them (or himself). I'm guessing you're seeing some of this play out with dc.

Dh has never been good at the mundane parts of life and that - to me at least - is where that connection with the kids happens. The car drives and pick ups, walking to school, reading before bed. Working through different systems to find something that works. The fun stuff with kids is important too, but when you need someone you go to the person who is there for you when it isnt fun.

Dh hasn't spoken to dc much about mental health but is always searching for the reason. The fixable thing that doesn't exist. Without a specific thing hes decided that its dc picking up on his poor mental health. Not that I want dc to have brain chemistry struggles but its weird to refocus the kids struggles on himself like that. Yes we have an impact on the kids mental health but I'm so not into the woo of empathic children mirroring out someone else's emotions.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 2, 2025 10:23:10 GMT -5 azucena said:

Rae - I could have written that post. Several months ago, I even made a point to order Thai food more often for 3 solid weeks after having a convo that I was willing to try to rebuild that way but only if it led to emotional connection and partnership in some real way...bc he'd been using the same physical touch love language argument with me. He didn't make any changes so I feel like that shot his argument all to pieces and me feeling even less emotional connection basically confirmed mine.

Meanwhile, guess what my love language is? Acts of service. So is it any real surprise that I don't feel loved when he does almost nothing around the house?!

Ensue circular argument/misunderstandings for the last 5+ yrs ---------> I can't keep waiting for him to figure this out with me/for me.

I've always hated love languages because its 99% women are acts of service and men are physical touch - with some gifts thrown in as a secondary. Then come to find put the author has no human behaviorist training and I think has some kind of tie to religious evangelicals.

When I'm ready to light the world on fire I think its just another premise to subjugate women. Women are acts of service so of course they end up taking on so much household and mental load. You cant expect anything from your man if he isnt getting enough sex, so if he isnt meeting your needs its because you arent meeting his. So everything is the women's fault and up to her to fix. And I am so done with that shit.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 2, 2025 9:16:32 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Perimenopause is a bitch and can really mess with you. But in my limited experience it doesn’t change how I feell about my relationships. And you’ve been unhappy for a really long time.
Here’s hoping he comes around to agreeing this is for the best. I’ll be thinking about you.

Yep. If I couldn't find joy in any relationship then I'd be inclined to consider it.

My life is actually really good. I have strong friendships, I'm close with my parents. I have my own hobbies separate from being a mom and I love my kids. I love hanging out with them and listening to anything they want to share. I've built a great life around dh.