Channeling The Clash

[raeoflyte]

I know the answer to this, but I don't like it and want some other option. I want dh and I to be fundamentally different people and to find happiness and fulfillment together forever after. I don't even know if we ever had that honestly, but I'd like to have it now. Our marriage therapist said she believes there's lots of love between us, plus codependency and a trauma bond. That last part makes me laugh but She's not wrong.

For dh's part he will take anything he can get from me/us, unequivocally wants to stay, and will continue trying everyday to make things better. See that codependency piece... I believe him, but he's also miserable and he's miserable at me a good amount of time. I'm mostly exhausted but feel like I've already tried everything.
When that failed I gave up and found happiness on my own while still making sure he was supported. He should do the same! Or not. I'm annoyed but not surprised that the fate of our relationship falls entirely on my shoulders.

I printed the Gottman's marriage counseling partner questions. Really trying to get the momentum to see if dh would do them together. I had that list or similar one I tried with him years ago but I ended up feeling really shut down. I can't seem to make myself send them to him.

[Pink Cashmere]

I feel like it probably took a lot of courage for you to start this thread, and wanted to acknowledge that first if it’s true.

If he is willing to continue trying every day, what exactly does that mean to him?

[raeoflyte]

May 11, 2025 20:35:43 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I feel like it probably took a lot of courage for you to start this thread, and wanted to acknowledge that first if it’s true.

If he is willing to continue trying every day, what exactly does that mean to him?

I think it's mostly cowardice that keeps me from acting.

That's a good question that I should ask him. He has worked hard over the years to be a better spouse, parent, and person. His nature and nurture produced an anxiety fueled, compulsive and neurotic need to control everything that comes out in terrible ways. He's worked on his anger, stopped gaslighting, will at least hear me if I tell him something is his anxiety problem that he needs to work on - not something to pass on to me and the kids, and sees the work I put in and shows appreciation for it.

But he cannot meet me even close to 50% of the load or even tell me what I can expect from him on the load as a baseline for most days. He's agreed to text me each day with how he's feeling so I can have some expectations and empathy but he only did that once.

When something goes wrong his default is to react, snap, and deflect first and then over compensate with apologies and affection. He's working on that too - he can usually stop himself mid process, acknowledge it and give a real apology. But he's said he doesn't think he'll ever be able to stop that even most of the time.

Between those 2 I haven't been able to let myself trust him. He feels like I don't see the good things he does. I think I do, but I don't rely or expect them.

[swamp]

I’m going horribly blunt, maybe even mean.

For several years we’ve heard how useless your DH is. He’s deficient at auditing and you have 3 kids. Frank yum I think your life will be easier without him. It sounds like you get nothing out of your marriage.

[Pink Cashmere]

May 11, 2025 21:01:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 11, 2025 20:35:43 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I feel like it probably took a lot of courage for you to start this thread, and wanted to acknowledge that first if it’s true.

If he is willing to continue trying every day, what exactly does that mean to him?

I think it's mostly cowardice that keeps me from acting.

That's a good question that I should ask him. He has worked hard over the years to be a better spouse, parent, and person. His nature and nurture produced an anxiety fueled, compulsive and neurotic need to control everything that comes out in terrible ways. He's worked on his anger, stopped gaslighting, will at least hear me if I tell him something is his anxiety problem that he needs to work on - not something to pass on to me and the kids, and sees the work I put in and shows appreciation for it.

But he cannot meet me even close to 50% of the load or even tell me what I can expect from him on the load as a baseline for most days. He's agreed to text me each day with how he's feeling so I can have some expectations and empathy but he only did that once.

When something goes wrong his default is to react, snap, and deflect first and then over compensate with apologies and affection. He's working on that too - he can usually stop himself mid process, acknowledge it and give a real apology. But he's said he doesn't think he'll ever be able to stop that even most of the time.

Between those 2 I haven't been able to let myself trust him. He feels like I don't see the good things he does. I think I do, but I don't rely or expect them.

All of what I’m about to say is worth even less than you paid for it.

I think it’s on him to manage how he is feeling each day so he can do whatever he needs to do IRT to the load. If he is way out of whack, maybe just say that on those days, so you can adjust. But I don’t think it should be an everyday thing for him to tell you how he’s feeling, so you need to know what you need to pick up, or how you are supposed to feel/react. 

It’s understandable that you can’t trust him by relying or expecting him to do the good things, if he has not been doing them consistently and showing up in the ways you need him to, for whatever length of time it takes for you to believe it might be real. Imo, that “length of time” is probably more than just a few months.

It is hard to change. If he is really trying, which you seem to be saying that even you can see that he is, he will still probably make some mistakes before he gets it all the way together and is really consistent with the change and new habits. But if you are fed up and don’t have it in you to keep waiting and hoping he’ll eventually get it right on a consistent basis, that is valid too. Sometimes it really is too little, too late, or just too late period. 

[raeoflyte]

May 11, 2025 21:12:10 GMT -5 swamp said:

I’m going horribly blunt, maybe even mean.

For several years we’ve heard how useless your DH is. He’s deficient at auditing and you have 3 kids. Frank yum I think your life will be easier without him. It sounds like you get nothing out of your marriage.

Which brings us back to my cowardice.

It's literally the worst possible time. I'm going to say He's completely estranged from his immediate family. That may not be permanent but its not changing soon. Dc is deeply struggling. I know everyone says this but I don't think either kid really knows or expects that we have problems. Working opposite shifts and dh sleeping a lot gives a lot of cover. I have spoken with dc therapist and she didn't have an inkling from dc after 3 years of therapy.

I should have done something when I stopped trying to fix things. And that was 5 years ago.... I'm the manipulative asshole.

[Pink Cashmere]

May 11, 2025 21:23:26 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 11, 2025 21:12:10 GMT -5 swamp said:

I’m going horribly blunt, maybe even mean.

For several years we’ve heard how useless your DH is. He’s deficient at auditing and you have 3 kids. Frank yum I think your life will be easier without him. It sounds like you get nothing out of your marriage.

Which brings us back to my cowardice.

It's literally the worst possible time. I'm going to say He's completely estranged from his immediate family. That may not be permanent but its not changing soon. Dc is deeply struggling. I know everyone says this but I don't think either kid really knows or expects that we have problems. Working opposite shifts and dh sleeping a lot gives a lot of cover. I have spoken with dc therapist and she didn't have an inkling from dc after 3 years of therapy.

I should have done something when I stopped trying to fix things. And that was 5 years ago.... I'm the manipulative asshole.

Why would you say that? It seems to me that you’ve just been trying to hold things together for your family, even when that meant you were unhappy and even though you had a spouse, but didn’t really have a partner in many ways.

Can we reframe that statement without the negative self talk? I do believe that we should be honest with ourselves, but there is a way to even acknowledge our real flaws (we ALL have flaws!)  still with kindness, compassion and love for ourselves. Is that something you would say to a close friend that you love, that was in your exact same situation? I don’t want to discourage you from being honest about your thoughts, but imma also stand up for my friend (you) as needed and say don’t talk to her (you) like that.

[raeoflyte]

May 11, 2025 21:22:47 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

May 11, 2025 21:01:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I think it's mostly cowardice that keeps me from acting.

That's a good question that I should ask him. He has worked hard over the years to be a better spouse, parent, and person. His nature and nurture produced an anxiety fueled, compulsive and neurotic need to control everything that comes out in terrible ways. He's worked on his anger, stopped gaslighting, will at least hear me if I tell him something is his anxiety problem that he needs to work on - not something to pass on to me and the kids, and sees the work I put in and shows appreciation for it.

But he cannot meet me even close to 50% of the load or even tell me what I can expect from him on the load as a baseline for most days. He's agreed to text me each day with how he's feeling so I can have some expectations and empathy but he only did that once.

When something goes wrong his default is to react, snap, and deflect first and then over compensate with apologies and affection. He's working on that too - he can usually stop himself mid process, acknowledge it and give a real apology. But he's said he doesn't think he'll ever be able to stop that even most of the time.

Between those 2 I haven't been able to let myself trust him. He feels like I don't see the good things he does. I think I do, but I don't rely or expect them.

All of what I’m about to say is worth even less than you paid for it.

I think it’s on him to manage how he is feeling each day so he can do whatever he needs to do IRT to the load. If he is way out of whack, maybe just say that on those days, so you can adjust. But I don’t think it should be an everyday thing for him to tell you how he’s feeling, so you need to know what you need to pick up, or how you are supposed to feel/react. 

It’s understandable that you can’t trust him by relying or expecting him to do the good things, if he has not been doing them consistently and showing up in the ways you need him to, for whatever length of time it takes for you to believe it might be real. Imo, that “length of time” is probably more than just a few months.

It is hard to change. If he is really trying, which you seem to be saying that even you can see that he is, he will still probably make some mistakes before he gets it all the way together and is really consistent with the change and new habits. But if you are fed up and don’t have it in you to keep waiting and hoping he’ll eventually get it right on a consistent basis, that is valid too. Sometimes it really is too little, too late, or just too late period. 

The daily check in is something I've asked for, for years and our therapist also has a chronic condition and told us her system to let her spouse know where she was at each day. My system without that has been to assume dh can do nothing and it's just appreciated help when he contributes but nothing to rely on. I know his issues are valid even if they're not concrete. But a few years of really bad behavior eroded my good will and I think he sets up life for his highs, ignoring that the lows always come back. Which leaves a lot of slack to pick up during those times.

[raeoflyte]

May 11, 2025 21:33:28 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

May 11, 2025 21:23:26 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Which brings us back to my cowardice.

It's literally the worst possible time. I'm going to say He's completely estranged from his immediate family. That may not be permanent but its not changing soon. Dc is deeply struggling. I know everyone says this but I don't think either kid really knows or expects that we have problems. Working opposite shifts and dh sleeping a lot gives a lot of cover. I have spoken with dc therapist and she didn't have an inkling from dc after 3 years of therapy.

I should have done something when I stopped trying to fix things. And that was 5 years ago.... I'm the manipulative asshole.

Why would you say that? It seems to me that you’ve just been trying to hold things together for your family, even when that meant you were unhappy and even though you had a spouse, but didn’t really have a partner in many ways.

Can we reframe that statement without the negative self talk? I do believe that we should be honest with ourselves, but there is a way to even acknowledge our real flaws (we ALL have flaws!)  still with kindness, compassion and love for ourselves. Is that something you would say to a close friend that you love, that was in your exact same situation? I don’t want to discourage you from being honest about your thoughts, but imma also stand up for my friend (you) as needed and say don’t talk to her (you) like that.

It's fair and I'm the first to say I never meant to be an asshole. But intent doesn't change impact. I didn't realize I would check out when I stopped trying to fix things. I was trying to accept the way things were.

[swamp]

May 11, 2025 21:23:26 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 11, 2025 21:12:10 GMT -5 swamp said:

I’m going horribly blunt, maybe even mean.

For several years we’ve heard how useless your DH is. He’s deficient at auditing and you have 3 kids. Frank yum I think your life will be easier without him. It sounds like you get nothing out of your marriage.

Which brings us back to my cowardice.

It's literally the worst possible time. I'm going to say He's completely estranged from his immediate family. That may not be permanent but its not changing soon. Dc is deeply struggling. I know everyone says this but I don't think either kid really knows or expects that we have problems. Working opposite shifts and dh sleeping a lot gives a lot of cover. I have spoken with dc therapist and she didn't have an inkling from dc after 3 years of therapy.

I should have done something when I stopped trying to fix things. And that was 5 years ago.... I'm the manipulative asshole.

When is a good time?  

and knock it off. You’re not a manipulative asshole. If anything, you’ve been a doormat and dumping ground for your DH’s “stuff”. You did the best you could. 

[swamp]

May 11, 2025 21:58:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 11, 2025 21:33:28 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Why would you say that? It seems to me that you’ve just been trying to hold things together for your family, even when that meant you were unhappy and even though you had a spouse, but didn’t really have a partner in many ways.

Can we reframe that statement without the negative self talk? I do believe that we should be honest with ourselves, but there is a way to even acknowledge our real flaws (we ALL have flaws!)  still with kindness, compassion and love for ourselves. Is that something you would say to a close friend that you love, that was in your exact same situation? I don’t want to discourage you from being honest about your thoughts, but imma also stand up for my friend (you) as needed and say don’t talk to her (you) like that.

It's fair and I'm the first to say I never meant to be an asshole. But intent doesn't change impact. I didn't realize I would check out when I stopped trying to fix things. I was trying to accept the way things were.

Why is it on,y up,to you to fix things? I really don’t see the effort he’s put in to fix things other than a quick bandaid to placate you. 

[raeoflyte]

All of this to say that the answer is so God damn obvious and I still really, really, really want a different answer. Anything else to try.

I worry the kids will hate me. I worry about how it will affect them - teen years are so volatile. I worry about dh. Can he take care of himself? Probably on some level but the kids too? I'm related to an adult who can't adult. They get by with a good amount of family support. Dh won't have that. I don't want to sell our house (my childhood home) but house values are so insane that there's no way to divide without doing that.

[raeoflyte]

May 11, 2025 21:59:51 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 11, 2025 21:58:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

It's fair and I'm the first to say I never meant to be an asshole. But intent doesn't change impact. I didn't realize I would check out when I stopped trying to fix things. I was trying to accept the way things were.

Why is it on,y up,to you to fix things? I really don’t see the effort he’s put in to fix things other than a quick bandaid to placate you. 

That's exactly what I decided at the time and given the same info I would probably do it again. Seems like the wrong call now though.

It doesn't excuse his behavior but he does try and he has made improvements. I'm angry at myself for putting up with so much crappy behavior just to bail when he's finally making progress at more than a snails pace. He's finally seeing doctors, medicating for pain and mental health which makes him more capable at life than he's been...maybe ever.

[swamp]

Call me a cynic but I think he’s doing it only because he knows you have one foot out the door.

[Pink Cashmere]

May 11, 2025 21:58:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 11, 2025 21:33:28 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Why would you say that? It seems to me that you’ve just been trying to hold things together for your family, even when that meant you were unhappy and even though you had a spouse, but didn’t really have a partner in many ways.

Can we reframe that statement without the negative self talk? I do believe that we should be honest with ourselves, but there is a way to even acknowledge our real flaws (we ALL have flaws!)  still with kindness, compassion and love for ourselves. Is that something you would say to a close friend that you love, that was in your exact same situation? I don’t want to discourage you from being honest about your thoughts, but imma also stand up for my friend (you) as needed and say don’t talk to her (you) like that.

It's fair and I'm the first to say I never meant to be an asshole. But intent doesn't change impact. I didn't realize I would check out when I stopped trying to fix things. I was trying to accept the way things were.

What do you mean by “it’s fair”? You don’t have to answer any of my questions here, I am just really trying to get you to ask yourself questions about things that maybe you have been too hard on yourself about. 

I understand that often, we vent here about things that aren’t going right, more than we talk about things that are good, and being humans, we don’t always tell the whole story about the part we played in some things that aren’t going right, but have you really been an asshole? Or have you just been a human trying to cope with a situation where your spouse wasn’t being anything close to a real partner in your lives together and ignoring your voice and your needs?

I don’t see how you could/would  do anything other than finally check out after years of trying to fix things by yourself, with a spouse that made you feel like you were doing all the heavy lifting and was just ignoring what you had been saying you needed from them for you to feel like you were true partners, a team and in it together. 

Imma hush now, because even though our situations are very different and the reasons I am so upset with Mister aren’t all the same as the issues you have with your husband, I feel like I still may be projecting some of my own shit onto your situation, and that is not okay for me to do. Whatever you think is best for you to do, I will offer my moral and emotional support. And all the hugs while you work through it, and even after you get to the other side of what you are going through now.

You are not a bad person, or an asshole! I wouldn’t say that, or even talk to you, if I thought you were either. You are a good person that just needs to figure some things out about how you can live your best life and whether your husband is the person you can live your best life with and whether that is even possible. I know it’s a lot for you to try to figure out, and I will support whatever decisions you make to take good care of you.💕

[finnime]

You've been doing the best you can do for a very long time as well as raising your children. You're tired. You need a real partner to share your life with, to mutually support and love and cherish. It's okay that you have needs. It's not okay to ignore those needs or put them off indefinitely; they're still needs. There is such a thing as emotional exhaustion. You need to stand up for yourself now.

In terms of the house, some small set of people do continue to share a house once they've split. I think geenamercile is one. I have no idea if your house layout is conducive to this or if you could stomach it, but it's possible.

I wish you the strength to see what you must do to help yourself now. It is only when you're okay that your kids will also be truly okay.

Best to you.

[raeoflyte]

May 12, 2025 6:28:17 GMT -5 finnime said:

You've been doing the best you can do for a very long time as well as raising your children. You're tired. You need a real partner to share your life with, to mutually support and love and cherish. It's okay that you have needs. It's not okay to ignore those needs or put them off indefinitely; they're still needs. There is such a thing as emotional exhaustion. You need to stand up for yourself now.

In terms of the house, some small set of people do continue to share a house once they've split. I think geenamercile is one. I have no idea if your house layout is conducive to this or if you could stomach it, but it's possible.

I wish you the strength to see what you must do to help yourself now. It is only when you're okay that your kids will also be truly okay.

Best to you.

If dh were in a spot to say this isn't working for him either I think we could make it work in the same house. Where he's at now, I'm not sure.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 11, 2025 21:58:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 11, 2025 21:33:28 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Why would you say that? It seems to me that you’ve just been trying to hold things together for your family, even when that meant you were unhappy and even though you had a spouse, but didn’t really have a partner in many ways.

Can we reframe that statement without the negative self talk? I do believe that we should be honest with ourselves, but there is a way to even acknowledge our real flaws (we ALL have flaws!)  still with kindness, compassion and love for ourselves. Is that something you would say to a close friend that you love, that was in your exact same situation? I don’t want to discourage you from being honest about your thoughts, but imma also stand up for my friend (you) as needed and say don’t talk to her (you) like that.

It's fair and I'm the first to say I never meant to be an asshole. But intent doesn't change impact. I didn't realize I would check out when I stopped trying to fix things. I was trying to accept the way things were.

This is a bullshit line they feed women to make us stay in our place.  Why should you have to accept things the way they are?  Human beings are meant to grow as we age.  It is not your fault that DH hasn't grown along with you.  You don't have to force yourself to accept your lot or be unhappy because the other person won't even meet you half way.  You deserve to have a partner who will grow and mature with you.  

Making the leap you would need him to make involves a lot of self work and most people can't or won't do that.  That doesn't mean you have to lie down and accept that.  It doesn't mean you have to sit there and go at his microscopic pace either.  It is fine to decide it is too little too late you are done waiting.  Everyone has their dealbreakers and you have a right to that boundary.  Him not being able to get over the finish line is a him problem not a you problem.

You do not owe him the rest of your life to wait and see if he can catch up to you.

He will figure out a way to care for himself.  They always do.  It may not be to your standards or what they are accustomed to but they will survive just fine.  It is not your job to save him from himself.

[raeoflyte]

May 12, 2025 8:39:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 11, 2025 21:58:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

It's fair and I'm the first to say I never meant to be an asshole. But intent doesn't change impact. I didn't realize I would check out when I stopped trying to fix things. I was trying to accept the way things were.

This is a bullshit line they feed women to make us stay in our place.  Why should you have to accept things the way they are?  Human beings are meant to grow as we age.  It is not your fault that DH hasn't grown along with you.  You don't have to force yourself to accept your lot or be unhappy because the other person won't even meet you half way.  You deserve to have a partner who will grow and mature with you.  

Making the leap you would need him to make involves a lot of self work and most people can't or won't do that.  That doesn't mean you have to lie down and accept that.  It doesn't mean you have to sit there and go at his microscopic pace either.  It is fine to decide it is too little too late you are done waiting.  Everyone has their dealbreakers and you have a right to that boundary.  Him not being able to get over the finish line is a him problem not a you problem.

You do not owe him the rest of your life to wait and see if he can catch up to you.

He will figure out a way to care for himself.  They always do.  It may not be to your standards or what they are accustomed to but they will survive just fine.  It is not your job to save him from himself.

I don't think its a bs line. I knew my choices were to leave him - and I knew I had valid reasons to do that. Or I could accept that things werent going to change and asked myself if I could be happy with that. I chose the latter and I was very happy with the life I built and boundaries I worked on. I didn't tell dh that thought process and hindsight I don't think that was fair to him. It wasn't intentional but communicating is obviously not our strong suit and it became easier not to share.

He has a lot of faults but current situation I think I have to own.

[geenamercile]

May 12, 2025 6:28:17 GMT -5 finnime said:

You've been doing the best you can do for a very long time as well as raising your children. You're tired. You need a real partner to share your life with, to mutually support and love and cherish. It's okay that you have needs. It's not okay to ignore those needs or put them off indefinitely; they're still needs. There is such a thing as emotional exhaustion. You need to stand up for yourself now.

In terms of the house, some small set of people do continue to share a house once they've split. I think geenamercile is one. I have no idea if your house layout is conducive to this or if you could stomach it, but it's possible.

I wish you the strength to see what you must do to help yourself now. It is only when you're okay that your kids will also be truly okay.

Best to you.

We split the house for about 3/4 years, before I moved into A's house.  It worked for several reasons.  One of those is we did have baseline expectations of each other, along the lines of the responsible aspects of our lives and those baselines easily covered what I would expect of a roommate.  

I have a pretty intense meeting coming up so will try and gather thoughts, but the quick version is I don't think my answers to your questions is what you are looking for. 

[geenamercile]

May 12, 2025 9:09:22 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

May 12, 2025 6:28:17 GMT -5 finnime said:

You've been doing the best you can do for a very long time as well as raising your children. You're tired. You need a real partner to share your life with, to mutually support and love and cherish. It's okay that you have needs. It's not okay to ignore those needs or put them off indefinitely; they're still needs. There is such a thing as emotional exhaustion. You need to stand up for yourself now.

In terms of the house, some small set of people do continue to share a house once they've split. I think geenamercile is one. I have no idea if your house layout is conducive to this or if you could stomach it, but it's possible.

I wish you the strength to see what you must do to help yourself now. It is only when you're okay that your kids will also be truly okay.

Best to you.

We split the house for about 3/4 years, before I moved into A's house.  It worked for several reasons.  One of those is we did have baseline expectations of each other, along the lines of the responsible aspects of our lives and those baselines easily covered what I would expect of a roommate.  What I expect as a partner is more than just the responsibility of a roommate.    

I have a pretty intense meeting coming up so will try and gather thoughts, but the quick version is I don't think my answers to your questions is what you are looking for. 

[swamp]

May 12, 2025 7:35:44 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 12, 2025 6:28:17 GMT -5 finnime said:

You've been doing the best you can do for a very long time as well as raising your children. You're tired. You need a real partner to share your life with, to mutually support and love and cherish. It's okay that you have needs. It's not okay to ignore those needs or put them off indefinitely; they're still needs. There is such a thing as emotional exhaustion. You need to stand up for yourself now.

In terms of the house, some small set of people do continue to share a house once they've split. I think geenamercile is one. I have no idea if your house layout is conducive to this or if you could stomach it, but it's possible.

I wish you the strength to see what you must do to help yourself now. It is only when you're okay that your kids will also be truly okay.

Best to you.

If dh were in a spot to say this isn't working for him either I think we could make it work in the same house. Where he's at now, I'm not sure.

Of course it’s working for him. He doesn’t have to man up. You do everything.

[raeoflyte]

May 12, 2025 9:33:26 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 12, 2025 7:35:44 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

If dh were in a spot to say this isn't working for him either I think we could make it work in the same house. Where he's at now, I'm not sure.

Of course it’s working for him. He doesn’t have to man up. You do everything.

Yeah... I am pretty f'ing awesome. And I mean that despite the sarcasm.

Can't say I'm wifely material though in any sense anymore.

[steph08]

I think it's OK to say "I can see the progress that you have made, but it isn't enough."

I think you have fought the good fight, but you and your DH are incompatible in the most basic of ways that make your relationship sustainable for you. Whether intentional (all the animals) or not (the mental health issues), your DH makes your life more difficult and makes you feel like a sub-par human being or partner. It's OK to want to break free of that and feel 100% yourself again. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 12, 2025 9:37:58 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 12, 2025 9:33:26 GMT -5 swamp said:

Of course it’s working for him. He doesn’t have to man up. You do everything.

Yeah... I am pretty f'ing awesome. And I mean that despite the sarcasm.

Can't say I'm wifely material though in any sense anymore.

What defines wifely though?  He isn't exactly being husbandly.

It's okay to say that someone's issues are too much for you and to not want to deal with that anymore.   

Valerie Bertenelli divorced Van Halen after decades of marriage because she could no longer handle his relapses. She was very open about it.  You can tell by the way she talks about him that he will forever be her soul mate but they just could not live together/stay married anymore.

[lurkyloo]

Aw, rae.  All the hugs.  You‘ve put everything you have in here and then some. 

You‘re not manipulative, and I don’t think I‘d even call him that.  You‘ve done the best you can with the information and energy you have available.  And you‘ve sounded really, really tired for years now.  I’m not going to tell you not to second guess things or over analyze them because that’s not advice I could follow either-but really and truly there doesn’t have to be a villain. It can just be that things aren’t working despite best efforts from both sides.

We‘re here for you.

[lurkyloo]

A marriage should be between equals to a first approximation, unless you‘ve got some weird sugar daddy/baby or similar dynamic going on.  Yours has sounded for a while more like a parent/child thing.  You‘re concerned that you were less than honest with him.  I think the real issue is the reason you couldn’t be honest with him is that you feel you have to protect him at every turn.

Also, you’re upset with yourself bc it sounds like you couldn’t emotionally make yourself follow through on something you‘d intended to do (give up on getting reliable help from him while staying checked in). Why is it not okay for you, when you‘ve forgiven him doing that, then put up with him doing that, and are still bending over backward trying not to judge him too harshly, because he keeps doing that?

He can be trying as hard as his mental health allows, and it can still not be enough, and it doesn’t make anyone the bad guy per se.  It just makes you both human, with varying levels of human imperfections.

That said, if you want to continue in limbo for other reasons you can and we‘ll support that too.  But I don’t like to hear you putting down my friend rae, bc she is awesome 

[TheOtherMe]

Rae is awesome.  

I also know that you have sounded miserable for years and I don't like seeing my invisible friends miserable.  

Whatever you decide, we are here.

[geenamercile]

Sometimes there just isn't a good answer, sometimes it is picking between evils, or which of the worse options isn't the worse.  My great grandmother had a phrase- "you don't throw good money after bad,"  and even if it wasn't bad once, if it is now, it is.  Time and emotions  are a more expensive currency than cash.  There is no change without change, doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity.  What is good for the spider is bad for the fly.  When there is a will there is a way, and I have survived every bad day that has come so far.  If those seem like a lot of sangs, they are and ones that ran through my head consistently when making my decisions to leave my ex.  In the end you have to decide what is right for you, because you are really the only one who has to live with you for the rest of your life. 

So here is my very limited read on the situation for whatever it is worth.  You have had one foot out the door for awhile now.  I think you want to make the leap out, but it is fear that is stopping you.  But I don't think it is fear over what you will lose, I think it is fear over what others will think.  My ex FIL once early on in our marriage told my ex that I would end up leaving him, now his reason was because he was the SAHD, and no woman want that.  Now in the end he was right for us splitting, but no where close to right on the reason.  But I can still remember that argument and it did haunt me a bit when splitting because it was letting him be right.  The emotions tangled would be pride, annoyance, responsibility, and most likely others that makes me still upset that he was right back than about us not making it.  And yes I had to let my pride take a hit with that.  I think you are starting to become more honest with yourself, and that is a road you should continue.  As others say you have a support system here no matter which way you go.    

[azucena]

I think you feel stuck bc he is trying to change and maybe even has a bit. BUT it's still okay if it's not enough or too little too late.