Price controls

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 14, 2024 7:56:40 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 13, 2024 7:29:59 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

The average tax rate in the US is 15%. It is lower for lower income people, and higher as you make more. So no one is paying 1/5 of their income in federal taxes.

Corporate greed is corporate greed. Taxes just provide a convenient excuse for gullible people like yourself to sop up and give you someone else to blame. Nothing but corporate propaganda. They wanted to make more money, pure and simple, and cutting costs by moving provided the perfect opportunity. You just got caught in the crossfire. You just experienced capitalism at its best. And you actually believe their corporate spin? And you expect us to think you are intelligent

you are correct with avg. I do pay 20% on anything over the 61k or so to about 100k as a Dr. with a higher salary you do to and much more so take away the avg the tax amt is crazy high. Then incorporate sales tax, property tax, hotel has their own I just love that shit. We are taxed to death.

I said it was corporate greed all the way, but it would not have happened if the lower tax opportunity wasn't there. The numbers just would not have worked out. We should want business to thrive in this country not look to leave but with policies that the left put into place they will leave. I may just have been a victim of capitalism (which I believe in) driven by high taxes. There is no way around this

If business taxes are lower, the tax burden shifts to individuals, but you think we are overtaxed. So you are completely nonsensical on this issue. If you want a balanced budget, show us how it can be done with cutting taxes. With real numbers, not made up ones conservatives like to use. Tell us how much you would cut SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense, since you cannot balance the budget without touching those. Show us you actually understand something for once.

As to you complaint about corporate taxes, blah, blah, blah. Your company wanted to make more money. Payroll is a much bigger driver of thseir profitability. In other words, you cost too much, so they are replacing you with lower cost workers. Paying less in taxes is just an ancillary benefit. Isn’t capitalism great

[scgal]

Sept 14, 2024 8:05:24 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 14, 2024 7:56:40 GMT -5 scgal said:

you are correct with avg. I do pay 20% on anything over the 61k or so to about 100k as a Dr. with a higher salary you do to and much more so take away the avg the tax amt is crazy high. Then incorporate sales tax, property tax, hotel has their own I just love that shit. We are taxed to death.

I said it was corporate greed all the way, but it would not have happened if the lower tax opportunity wasn't there. The numbers just would not have worked out. We should want business to thrive in this country not look to leave but with policies that the left put into place they will leave. I may just have been a victim of capitalism (which I believe in) driven by high taxes. There is no way around this

If business taxes are lower, the tax burden shifts to individuals, but you think we are overtaxed. So you are completely nonsensical on this issue. If you want a balanced budget, show us how it can be done with cutting taxes. With real numbers, not made up ones conservatives like to use. Tell us how much you would cut SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense, since you cannot balance the budget without touching those. Show us you actually understand something for once.

As to you complaint about corporate taxes, blah, blah, blah. Your company wanted to make more money. Payroll is a much bigger driver of thseir profitability. In other words, you cost too much, so they are replacing you with lower cost workers. Paying less in taxes is just an ancillary benefit. Isn’t capitalism great

You still don't get it. If the companies leave there is no corporation tax there is no individual tax there is no money. Try eliminating the waste and see how much money we really need. There is too much waste.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 14, 2024 8:16:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 14, 2024 8:05:24 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

If business taxes are lower, the tax burden shifts to individuals, but you think we are overtaxed. So you are completely nonsensical on this issue. If you want a balanced budget, show us how it can be done with cutting taxes. With real numbers, not made up ones conservatives like to use. Tell us how much you would cut SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense, since you cannot balance the budget without touching those. Show us you actually understand something for once.

As to you complaint about corporate taxes, blah, blah, blah. Your company wanted to make more money. Payroll is a much bigger driver of thseir profitability. In other words, you cost too much, so they are replacing you with lower cost workers. Paying less in taxes is just an ancillary benefit. Isn’t capitalism great

You still don't get it. If the companies leave there is no corporation tax there is no individual tax there is no money. Try eliminating the waste and see how much money we really need. There is too much waste.

Typical conservative blather. You have been talking about fraud and waste since Reagan. Deficit has done nothing but increase. You actually have to cut programs to balance the budget, or the math doesn’t work. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense, and interest on the debt comprise over 60% of the budget. Real numbers or you are just spewing nonsense.

As to your point about corporate taxes, make them zero. Then individuals can bear the entire burden of providing the revenue to support government spending. That seems to be your desire anyway

[jerseygirl]

Sept 13, 2024 16:43:06 GMT -5 imawino said:

Sept 13, 2024 9:02:58 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

I worked with 2 US companies that were bought by Irish companies. Difference in tax rates (35% in US at the time vs about 12% Ireland) was about the R& budget.
Corporations must be competitive to exist that’s not corporate greed. Without a good economy that includes profits from companies and people there’s not enough money for social causes and defense.

Prior to the 2017 tax reform the US corporate rate was about 35% then lowered to 21%
Corporate tax rate is about 21% in the EU

tradingeconomics.com/european-union/corporate-tax-rate

Rate in Ireland is about 12%

taxfoundation.org/location/ireland/

Why does decreasing corporate competitiveness equal ‘greed’?



Who is gullible?

That's extremely disingenuous.  35% is not "the tax rate", it is "the highest possible rate".  That in no way means it is what companies pay.  

According to a quick google - Google's effective tax rate for 2019-2023 averages about 15%.  Apples effective tax rate for 2023 was 15.1%.  Cisco's was 15.65%  Amazon averaged 17% 2019-2023.  None of those are wildly divergent from the 12% you tout for Ireland

Exxon was the highest I could find (granted I didn't spend much time on it) at 29%   Given that they had revenues of over 344 billion and profit of 36 billion in 2023, I don't think they suffered too badly.


By the way - the EU just ruled that Apple owes Ireland over 14 billion in back taxes.  Corporations crush on having operations in Ireland may begin to sour.    www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/top-eu-court-rules-apple-owes-ireland-over-14b-in-back-taxes/

Think the ‘effective’ tax rates are based on the gross profits before business expenses deducted.

The EU not Ireland wants the 14 million

www.yahoo.com/news/ireland-decide-apple-13-billion-150757641.html
Maybe jealousy over business Ireland is getting?

[pulmonarymd]

You know what. Make the corporate tax rate zero. Companies should be falling all over each other to open here then. Seems like that is the answer conservatives and businesses want anyway

[thyme4change]

Sept 14, 2024 9:46:38 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Sept 13, 2024 16:43:06 GMT -5 imawino said:

That's extremely disingenuous.  35% is not "the tax rate", it is "the highest possible rate".  That in no way means it is what companies pay.  

According to a quick google - Google's effective tax rate for 2019-2023 averages about 15%.  Apples effective tax rate for 2023 was 15.1%.  Cisco's was 15.65%  Amazon averaged 17% 2019-2023.  None of those are wildly divergent from the 12% you tout for Ireland

Exxon was the highest I could find (granted I didn't spend much time on it) at 29%   Given that they had revenues of over 344 billion and profit of 36 billion in 2023, I don't think they suffered too badly.


By the way - the EU just ruled that Apple owes Ireland over 14 billion in back taxes.  Corporations crush on having operations in Ireland may begin to sour.    www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/top-eu-court-rules-apple-owes-ireland-over-14b-in-back-taxes/

Think the ‘effective’ tax rates are based on the gross profits before business expenses deducted.

The EU not Ireland wants the 14 million

www.yahoo.com/news/ireland-decide-apple-13-billion-150757641.html
Maybe jealousy over business Ireland is getting?

Explain this to me? What do you mean by gross profit before business expenses are deducted?

Are we talking revenue or margin?

[jerseygirl]

Sept 14, 2024 10:02:40 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You know what. Make the corporate tax rate zero. Companies should be falling all over each other to open here then. Seems like that is the answer conservatives and businesses want anyway

Another attempt at sarcasm
Fail!

[seriousthistime]

Has anyone checked out the personal income tax rate in Ireland? Looks like the tax burden has shifted from corporations to individuals.  Is that what you want?

[jerseygirl]

Sept 14, 2024 11:42:05 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Has anyone checked out the personal income tax rate in Ireland? Looks like the tax burden has shifted from corporations to individuals.  Is that what you want?

I never said or even thought the US should have such a low rate as Ireland.
But the US shouldn’t have a high rate that’s not competitive. The EU average is about 21% and it’s same in US

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 14, 2024 11:33:38 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Sept 14, 2024 10:02:40 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You know what. Make the corporate tax rate zero. Companies should be falling all over each other to open here then. Seems like that is the answer conservatives and businesses want anyway

Another attempt at sarcasm
Fail!

No whenever someone talks about taxes, it is always too high. I am just pointing out what the actual consequences of always cutting taxes. Taxes are a necessary evil. We all want the government services that benefit us. The money needs to come from somewhere. The question is where. If the US corporate tax rate is the same as the EU average, I fail to see the issue

[jerseygirl]

Discussing corporate tax rate as this is an issue in this election
Raise from 21% to 28%?
Not the same as Europe as it is now


taxfoundation.org/research/federal-tax/2024-tax-plans/#Topics

[pulmonarymd]

So we are condemned to deficit spending. Can’t raise corporate taxes. Can’t raise personal taxes. Can’t cut defense. Can’t cut SS/medicare/medicaid. So deficit spending it is

[jerseygirl]

Sept 14, 2024 13:36:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

So we are condemned to deficit spending. Can’t raise corporate taxes. Can’t raise personal taxes. Can’t cut defense. Can’t cut SS/medicare/medicaid. So deficit spending it is

Umm those aren’t my idea
Only discussing price controls and hoping for a competitive corporate environment
Neither party wants to do anything about SS or Medicare

[pulmonarymd]

You have ANY ideas about the deficit, or only complaining about taxes and spending?

[resolution]

I think it was scgal that was complaining about being taxed to death, and jerseygirl was just comparing corporate tax rates between here and Europe. I have to say that since our tax rates are comparable to Europe, I would appreciate it if I could get some of that sweet healthcare that Europeans get.

[seriousthistime]

Sept 14, 2024 12:52:28 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Sept 14, 2024 11:42:05 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Has anyone checked out the personal income tax rate in Ireland? Looks like the tax burden has shifted from corporations to individuals.  Is that what you want?

I never said or even thought the US should have such a low rate as Ireland.
But the US shouldn’t have a high rate that’s not competitive. The EU average is about 21% and it’s same in US

I wasn't specifically directing it at you, jerseygirl.  Just suggesting that maybe we need to look at how low corporate tax rates place more of the burden on individuals. 

[tallguy]

Sept 14, 2024 19:26:27 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Sept 14, 2024 12:52:28 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

I never said or even thought the US should have such a low rate as Ireland.
But the US shouldn’t have a high rate that’s not competitive. The EU average is about 21% and it’s same in US

I wasn't specifically directing it at you, jerseygirl.  Just suggesting that maybe we need to look at how low corporate tax rates place more of the burden on individuals. 

Just remember that if we are talking about Republicans in charge, that won't be the question.  It will instead be, "How much more will we increase the federal deficit and the national debt?", since borrowing against our future is an infinitely better idea than actually taking responsibility and paying for things ourselves.   

[jerseygirl]

Sept 14, 2024 19:46:58 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Sept 14, 2024 19:26:27 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

I wasn't specifically directing it at you, jerseygirl.  Just suggesting that maybe we need to look at how low corporate tax rates place more of the burden on individuals. 

Just remember that if we are talking about Republicans in charge, that won't be the question.  It will instead be, "How much more will we increase the federal deficit and the national debt?", since borrowing against our future is an infinitely better idea than actually taking responsibility and paying for things ourselves.   

So the Democrats aren’t increasing the debt or deficits? Please tell me more as that’s great!

[tallguy]

Sept 14, 2024 20:17:00 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Sept 14, 2024 19:46:58 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Just remember that if we are talking about Republicans in charge, that won't be the question.  It will instead be, "How much more will we increase the federal deficit and the national debt?", since borrowing against our future is an infinitely better idea than actually taking responsibility and paying for things ourselves.   

So the Democrats aren’t increasing the debt or deficits? Please tell me more as that’s great!

No, but historically Democratic administrations are FAR better at both GDP growth and stock market returns, while adding much less to the debt, than are Republicans.  I don't trust Republicans to do a damn thing any more.  Cowardly, greedy, authoritarian, treasonous little f***s all.  Well, almost all.  There may still be a few left who actually take their jobs seriously, though MAGATs* are having success in driving them out.   
If you want to go further, job creation is better under Democrats and the unemployment rate and inflation are lower under Democrats as well.  


* Make America Great Again Trump supporters

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 14, 2024 20:17:00 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Sept 14, 2024 19:46:58 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Just remember that if we are talking about Republicans in charge, that won't be the question.  It will instead be, "How much more will we increase the federal deficit and the national debt?", since borrowing against our future is an infinitely better idea than actually taking responsibility and paying for things ourselves.   

So the Democrats aren’t increasing the debt or deficits? Please tell me more as that’s great!

Republicans hyperventilate about the deficit before every election, and do jackshit to decrease it when they are in charge. They cut taxes and explode the deficit every single time. Trump increased the deficit more than any administration prior. They pretend to card to get votes, then make it worse. And the really amazing thing is people believe their lies. So I will vote and believe the party that has a better record in regards to making it worse.

Remember when we had a surplus under Clinton? Bush came in, cut taxes, and ballooned the deficit, and we have been paying the price ever since

[scgal]

Sept 14, 2024 8:28:31 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 14, 2024 8:16:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

You still don't get it. If the companies leave there is no corporation tax there is no individual tax there is no money. Try eliminating the waste and see how much money we really need. There is too much waste.

Typical conservative blather. You have been talking about fraud and waste since Reagan. Deficit has done nothing but increase. You actually have to cut programs to balance the budget, or the mat


h doesn’t work. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense, and interest on the debt comprise over 60% of the budget. Real numbers or you are just spewing nonsense.

As to your point about corporate taxes, make them zero. Then individuals can bear the entire burden of providing the revenue to support government spending. That seems to be your desire anyway

You call it blathering we said the exact same thing. I guess it makes you feel important when you look in the mirror when you say it. 

And so have the Democrats. You think you are so smart by being confrontational it's really just pathetic.. Making the corporate tax to zero might have some appeal either the people will get taxed to beyond living and force the govt to change their spending habits (unlikely) or govt will have to cut the spending on their own (unlikely). Eventually there will be officials elected to change for the better. 

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 15, 2024 8:05:37 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 14, 2024 8:28:31 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Typical conservative blather. You have been talking about fraud and waste since Reagan. Deficit has done nothing but increase. You actually have to cut programs to balance the budget, or the mat


h doesn’t work. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense, and interest on the debt comprise over 60% of the budget. Real numbers or you are just spewing nonsense.

As to your point about corporate taxes, make them zero. Then individuals can bear the entire burden of providing the revenue to support government spending. That seems to be your desire anyway

You call it blathering we said the exact same thing. I guess it makes you feel important when you look in the mirror when you say it. 

And so have the Democrats. You think you are so smart by being confrontational it's really just pathetic.. Making the corporate tax to zero might have some appeal either the people will get taxed to beyond living and force the govt to change their spending habits (unlikely) or govt will have to cut the spending on their own (unlikely). Eventually there will be officials elected to change for the better. 

I am a registered independent. You are just do far right you have no idea what a “liberal” is. Again, how do you balance the budget? Fraud and waste won’t do it. Real numbers, real idea. Not the stupid nonsense you spew all the time. As for being nasty, just following the example of your hero, Trump

[TheOtherMe]

Sept 14, 2024 14:21:07 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Sept 14, 2024 13:36:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

So we are condemned to deficit spending. Can’t raise corporate taxes. Can’t raise personal taxes. Can’t cut defense. Can’t cut SS/medicare/medicaid. So deficit spending it is

Neither party wants to do anything about SS or Medicare

What do you want done with SS or Medicare?   

I would like to see the limit on who pays in to Social Security done away.  Just because you make a million dollars a year, should not mean you stop paying FICA at $168,600.  

That would make a big dent in the funding for Social Security and Medicare.  

There are people in this country who are living on Social Security alone.  It's very difficult financially to make it these days on Social Security alone.  Some elderly have to sell their homes when they can no longer afford the property taxes.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 15, 2024 9:48:46 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Sept 14, 2024 14:21:07 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Neither party wants to do anything about SS or Medicare

What do you want done with SS or Medicare?   

I would like to see the limit on who pays in to Social Security done away.  Just because you make a million dollars a year, should not mean you stop paying FICA at $168,600.  

That would make a big dent in the funding for Social Security and Medicare.  

There are people in this country who are living on Social Security alone.  It's very difficult financially to make it these days on Social Security alone.  Some elderly have to sell their homes when they can no longer afford the property taxes.

I agree. I get a 6% raise during the year because of a stupid law. Would go a long way to fixing the SS shortfall. But I am willing to sacrifice to help fix things, unlike all the people here complaining about taxes but does not offer any solution beyond cutting out fraud and abuse

[Tiny]

Sept 14, 2024 13:17:44 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Discussing corporate tax rate as this is an issue in this election
Raise from 21% to 28%?
Not the same as Europe as it is now


taxfoundation.org/research/federal-tax/2024-tax-plans/#Topics

Why not do so math/semantics magic  - keep the 21% rate to be competitive - but cause a larger amount of a corporate income to be taxable?   That would increase the amount of tax collected without raising the corporate tax?     Could do the same thing for wealth in general - keep all those beautiful lower tax rates but change what money gets taxed so the wealthy pay more. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 14, 2024 11:42:05 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Has anyone checked out the personal income tax rate in Ireland? Looks like the tax burden has shifted from corporations to individuals.  Is that what you want?

20% on the first $35k or so of income, 40% on the remaining income.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 15, 2024 9:48:46 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Sept 14, 2024 14:21:07 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Neither party wants to do anything about SS or Medicare

What do you want done with SS or Medicare?   

I would like to see the limit on who pays in to Social Security done away.  Just because you make a million dollars a year, should not mean you stop paying FICA at $168,600.  

That would make a big dent in the funding for Social Security and Medicare.  

There are people in this country who are living on Social Security alone.  It's very difficult financially to make it these days on Social Security alone.  Some elderly have to sell their homes when they can no longer afford the property taxes.

There is no cap on Medicare tax like there is SS.  You continue to pay Medicare tax regardless of income.

[imawino]

Sept 13, 2024 17:51:18 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Tiny companies don’t pay on gross profits. Business expenses are deducted so taxed on net profits

This is not correct - you are conflating revenue with profit.  Net profit is by definition net of taxes.

[imawino]

Sept 14, 2024 9:46:38 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Sept 13, 2024 16:43:06 GMT -5 imawino said:

That's extremely disingenuous.  35% is not "the tax rate", it is "the highest possible rate".  That in no way means it is what companies pay.  

According to a quick google - Google's effective tax rate for 2019-2023 averages about 15%.  Apples effective tax rate for 2023 was 15.1%.  Cisco's was 15.65%  Amazon averaged 17% 2019-2023.  None of those are wildly divergent from the 12% you tout for Ireland

Exxon was the highest I could find (granted I didn't spend much time on it) at 29%   Given that they had revenues of over 344 billion and profit of 36 billion in 2023, I don't think they suffered too badly.


By the way - the EU just ruled that Apple owes Ireland over 14 billion in back taxes.  Corporations crush on having operations in Ireland may begin to sour.    www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/top-eu-court-rules-apple-owes-ireland-over-14b-in-back-taxes/

Think the ‘effective’ tax rates are based on the gross profits before business expenses deducted.

The EU not Ireland wants the 14 million

www.yahoo.com/news/ireland-decide-apple-13-billion-150757641.html
Maybe jealousy over business Ireland is getting?

This is also incorrect - and confusing.  Gross profits are actually after business expenses have been deducted.  

What the EU wants is for EU nations to collect taxes in accordance with the law, and for EU citizens to not be carrying a tax burden that should be shouldered by multinational corporations trying to evade taxes by moving operations to Ireland.  As for whether "Ireland" wants the money - maybe some in government don't but I'd wager the Irish citizenry does.

I can't comprehend how the EU could potentially be "jealous" of Ireland.  That's really just too silly.  Countries and corporations aren't people, they don't have emotions.  And Ireland is part of the EU.  It's like saying my body is jealous of my leg.   

[scgal]

Sept 15, 2024 8:43:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 15, 2024 8:05:37 GMT -5 scgal said:

You call it blathering we said the exact same thing. I guess it makes you feel important when you look in the mirror when you say it. 

And so have the Democrats. You think you are so smart by being confrontational it's really just pathetic.. Making the corporate tax to zero might have some appeal either the people will get taxed to beyond living and force the govt to change their spending habits (unlikely) or govt will have to cut the spending on their own (unlikely). Eventually there will be officials elected to change for the better. 

I am a registered independent. You are just do far right you have no idea what a “liberal” is. Again, how do you balance the budget? Fraud and waste won’t do it. Real numbers, real idea. Not the stupid nonsense you spew all the time. As for being nasty, just following the example of your hero, Trump

All we ever do is say oh we have a deficit we spend this we have of revenue of that. That is spewing nonsense. Look at what we spend not just the bottom line I mean all of it, into each budget see the waste all the little pork projects that everyone puts into their bills. Look at the revenue. Do this before raising personal income, and  corporate tax, where money can come from. After all that then see what a good tax rate would be. Now I understand that won't even touch the 35 trillion of debt but if you stop the deficit bleeding first. The deficit was 1.7 trillion last year that is unacceptable this is for both sides so don't say well Republicans have this both sides are guilty of this shit.