The Ten Commandments must be displayed in Louisiana class...

[Tiny]

I know I said the first 4 commandments were about humans duty to God. The other 6 aren't really about humans duties to other humans or to God .

What commandment does beating one's wife or children fall under? or exploiting your employees?  I don't really see anything there that would keep bullies from taking lunch money (it's a transaction - you pay so you don't get beat up - it's not stealing.) I don't see anything there about fairness or justice or compassion towards one's fellow human. The remaining 6 commandments seem to be about protecting the strongest members of the patriarchy. 

[djAdvocate]

Peter McWilliams covers the 10 commandments in Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do. highly recommend that book for the social libertarian.

[djAdvocate]

PS- i contend that McWilliams was murdered by the state. it is an extreme position, but i can absolutely justify it.

[Tennesseer]

Saw the below on Facebook.  I would much rather the below be posted in every classroom than the Christian/Judeo ten commandments.  As for the below, get rid of the tablet format and replace God in commandment five with the word religion.

[Spellbound454]

Nothing wrong with a bit of guidance for kids

We just have three.

Be respectful, stay on task and don't stop others from learning.

The rest of the moral input comes from special lessons and assemblies.

Think we can do better than a 2000 + year old doctrine tbh

[chiver78]

wow. 

[thyme4change]

I think posting them gives permission to teachers to talk about Christianity. I suspect the number of elementary school teachers in LA that are Christian is disproportionate. And just as they want to ban talking about homosexuality, they want to be able to talk about God as they know him. If they can just say they were talking about the mandated artwork, they just justified any biblical conversation they want to have.

[swamp]

Jun 24, 2024 16:33:13 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Nothing wrong with a bit of guidance for kids

We just have three.

Be respectful, stay on task and don't stop others from learning.

The rest of the moral input comes from special lessons and assemblies.

Think we can do better than a 2000 + year old doctrine tbh

Guidance, yes.   All the elementary schools I've been in have lots of signs reminding kids to be kind, be inclusive, be respectful.   I think it's a great idea. 

But guidance limited to a Christian screed. No. 

Post of the 5 Pillars of Islam and watch everyone freak out.   

[djAdvocate]

Jun 26, 2024 12:37:15 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 24, 2024 16:33:13 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Nothing wrong with a bit of guidance for kids

We just have three.

Be respectful, stay on task and don't stop others from learning.

The rest of the moral input comes from special lessons and assemblies.

Think we can do better than a 2000 + year old doctrine tbh

Guidance, yes.   All the elementary schools I've been in have lots of signs reminding kids to be kind, be inclusive, be respectful.   I think it's a great idea. 

But guidance limited to a Christian screed. No. 

Post of the 5 Pillars of Islam and watch everyone freak out.   

that should absolutely be next, provided that this passes the judicial test.
it probably won't.

[Tennesseer]

Religious leader wants to display Indian scriptures in Louisiana public classrooms

BATON ROUGE, La. (BRPROUD) — A spokesperson of the Hindu community is seeking to have ancient Sanskrit scriptures displayed in public classrooms alongside the Ten Commandments.

On Wednesday, Gov. Jeff Landry signed a law that requires each public classroom, starting from kindergarten to state-funded universities, in Louisiana to display the Ten Commandments.

The President of the Universal Society of Hinduism Rajan Zed said in a statement that the Bhagavad Gita, or the Gita, was a historically significant document and he believes is a treasure that should be displayed in public school classrooms.

The Gita is recognized as a poem in India and used as spiritual guidance, according to Britannica.

Zed states the Hindu community would cover the cost of the “11×14” posters and no funding from the state or school would be required.

The Hindu statesman noted that multiple prominent Americans were influenced by the Gita including philosopher Henry David Thoreau, physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer, philosopher Aldous Huxley and physicist Albert Einstein.

Zed believes that increasing the awareness of other religions would make classrooms in Louisiana “well-nurtured, well-balanced, and enlightened citizens of tomorrow.”

Religious leader wants to display Indian scriptures in Louisiana public classrooms

[Tennesseer]

Mandatory religion classes in public schools with be the the 2020s' cultural pandemic.  Need a cure for this disease asap.

Oklahoma state superintendent orders schools to teach the Bible in grades 5 through 12

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma’s top education official ordered public schools Thursday to incorporate the Bible into lessons for grades 5 through 12, the latest effort by conservatives to incorporate religion into classrooms.

The directive drew immediate condemnation from civil rights groups and supporters of the separation of church and state, with some calling it an abuse of power and a violation of the U.S. Constitution.

The order sent to districts across the state by Republican State Superintendent Ryan Walters says adherence to the mandate is compulsory and “immediate and strict compliance is expected.”

“The Bible is an indispensable historical and cultural touchstone,” Walters said in a statement. “Without basic knowledge of it, Oklahoma students are unable to properly contextualize the foundation of our nation which is why Oklahoma educational standards provide for its instruction.”

Oklahoma law already explicitly allows Bibles in the classroom and lets teachers use them in instruction, said Phil Bacharach, a spokesman for state Attorney General Gentner Drummond.

But it’s not clear if Walters has the authority to mandate that schools teach it. State law says individual school districts have the exclusive authority to decide on instruction, curriculum, reading lists, instructional materials and textbooks.

Rest of article here: Oklahoma state superintendent orders schools to teach the Bible in grades 5 through 12

[Spellbound454]

Jun 26, 2024 12:37:15 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 24, 2024 16:33:13 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Nothing wrong with a bit of guidance for kids

We just have three.

Be respectful, stay on task and don't stop others from learning.

The rest of the moral input comes from special lessons and assemblies.

Think we can do better than a 2000 + year old doctrine tbh

Guidance, yes.   All the elementary schools I've been in have lots of signs reminding kids to be kind, be inclusive, be respectful.   I think it's a great idea. 

But guidance limited to a Christian screed. No. 

Post of the 5 Pillars of Islam and watch everyone freak out.   

I guess this is where we differ.
Religious education is mandated here and we would routinely teach all the major religions without prejudice (including the 5 pillars of Islam)
Its so that youngsters have an awareness of what is going on in the society in which we live.

Not indoctrination though, so there aren't posters saying you have to do something (unless its a religious school with an over-all umbrella and even then I have never seen the ten commandments displayed.)
The actual education has to be secular and is inspected to make sure it is balanced.

Yes our structure is based on Christian principles and the holidays and feast days reflect this. Its thought important that children understand the context.
Not that scarey really. The more understanding you have, the more cohesive the society.

and there are charitable foundations which children can learn from, such as bringing food to support the local homeless feeding centres, or raising money for earthquake disaster funds.

Some people object and you have a right to withdraw your children from such lessons.

I don't object, I think a broad spectrum of understanding is good for kids.

From what I have read in the OP the local mandates seem a little too enthusiastic. There is a lot more relevance to learning about religious guidance than following an age old text, word for word.

[djAdvocate]

comparative religion in public schools is not unconstitutional.

Christian indoctrination is.

[Tennesseer]

[weltz]

The seven tenets of the Satanic Temple are far superior than the biblical decalogue. I can't find any fault with these.

I. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.



II. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.



III. One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.



IV. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To wilfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.



V. Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.



VI. People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.



VII. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.



VERSUS

You must only worship me.



You must only worship me and keep my commandments.



You will not speak badly about me.



You will have one day off from work per week.



Honor your parents without question. Even if they are junkies who prostituted you for crack.



Don't kill humans.



Don't cheat on your partner.



Don't steal from humans.



Don't tell lies about your neighbours.



Don't be jealous that your neighbour has more stuff than you. Leave their donkey alone.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

I suspect most people would be in complete agreement with that. Until, of course, they realize where it comes from. 

[weltz]

Jun 30, 2024 22:46:12 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

I suspect most people would be in complete agreement with that. Until, of course, they realize where it comes from. 

True, but the Satanic Temple is comprised of atheists, not Satanists.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

The average person would be up in arms anyway.

[weltz]

Yes, atheists are the 'low man on the totem pole.' Worse than child rapists, apparently.

[Spellbound454]

Shouldn't be, Obama signed something to protect atheists from persecution,linkhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-s-signature-u-s-religious-freedom-law-protects-atheists-n699356

[djAdvocate]

Jun 30, 2024 22:34:41 GMT -5 weltz said:

The seven tenets of the Satanic Temple are far superior than the biblical decalogue. I can't find any fault with these.

I. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.



II. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.



III. One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.



IV. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To wilfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.



V. Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.



VI. People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.



VII. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.



VERSUS

You must only worship me.



You must only worship me and keep my commandments.



You will not speak badly about me.



You will have one day off from work per week.



Honor your parents without question. Even if they are junkies who prostituted you for crack.



Don't kill humans.



Don't cheat on your partner.



Don't steal from humans.



Don't tell lies about your neighbours.



Don't be jealous that your neighbour has more stuff than you. Leave their donkey alone.

i would have used ass for the last one.  has a better ring to it.

[weltz]

Jul 1, 2024 3:17:33 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Shouldn't be, Obama signed something to protect atheists from persecution,linkhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-s-signature-u-s-religious-freedom-law-protects-atheists-n699356

When I click on that link, it just takes me back to this page.

[swamp]

Jul 1, 2024 3:17:33 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Shouldn't be, Obama signed something to protect atheists from persecution,linkhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-s-signature-u-s-religious-freedom-law-protects-atheists-n699356

All sorts of laws have been passed to protect black people from persecution, but that hasn't worked too well either. 

[Tiny]

No one ever talks about the Humanist "10 commandments" - it seems theists would rather suffer having to deal with Satanist than atheists. 


americanhumanistcenterforeducation.org/ten-commitments/

Altruism “I will help others in need without hoping for rewards.”

Critical Thinking “I will practice good judgment by asking questions and thinking for myself.”

Empathy “I will consider other people’s thoughts, feelings, and experiences.”

Environmentalism “I will take care of the Earth and the life on it.”

Ethical Development “I will always focus on becoming a better person.”

Global Awareness “I will be a good neighbor to the people who share the Earth with me and help make the world a better place for everyone.”

Humility “I will be aware of my strengths and weaknesses, and appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of others.”

Peace and Social Justice “I will help people solve problems and handle disagreements in ways that are fair for everyone.”

Responsibility “I will be a good person—even when no one is looking—and own the consequences of my actions.”

Service and Participation “I will help my community in ways that let me get to know the people I’m helping.”

[weltz]

Jul 1, 2024 3:17:33 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Shouldn't be, Obama signed something to protect atheists from persecution,linkhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-s-signature-u-s-religious-freedom-law-protects-atheists-n699356

Wasn't that taken care of by the Establishment Clause?


The First Amendment's Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.” This clause not only forbids the government from establishing an official religion, but also prohibits government actions that unduly favor one religion over another. It also prohibits the government from unduly preferring religion over non-religion, or non-religion over religion.

www.law.cornell.edu/wex/establishment_clause

[Spellbound454]

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-s-signature-u-s-religious-freedom-law-protects-atheists-n699356

Sorry Ill try again.

[weltz]

Jul 1, 2024 17:09:12 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-s-signature-u-s-religious-freedom-law-protects-atheists-n699356

Sorry Ill try again.

Thank you.

[weltz]

Jul 1, 2024 15:14:18 GMT -5 Tiny said:

No one ever talks about the Humanist "10 commandments" - it seems theists would rather suffer having to deal with Satanist than atheists. 


americanhumanistcenterforeducation.org/ten-commitments/

Altruism “I will help others in need without hoping for rewards.”

Critical Thinking “I will practice good judgment by asking questions and thinking for myself.”

Empathy “I will consider other people’s thoughts, feelings, and experiences.”

Environmentalism “I will take care of the Earth and the life on it.”

Ethical Development “I will always focus on becoming a better person.”

Global Awareness “I will be a good neighbor to the people who share the Earth with me and help make the world a better place for everyone.”

Humility “I will be aware of my strengths and weaknesses, and appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of others.”

Peace and Social Justice “I will help people solve problems and handle disagreements in ways that are fair for everyone.”

Responsibility “I will be a good person—even when no one is looking—and own the consequences of my actions.”

Service and Participation “I will help my community in ways that let me get to know the people I’m helping.”

Humanists.  Freethinkers. Atheists.
All the same.

[chiver78]

Jul 1, 2024 15:14:18 GMT -5 Tiny said:

No one ever talks about the Humanist "10 commandments" - it seems theists would rather suffer having to deal with Satanist than atheists. 


americanhumanistcenterforeducation.org/ten-commitments/

Altruism “I will help others in need without hoping for rewards.”

Critical Thinking “I will practice good judgment by asking questions and thinking for myself.”

Empathy “I will consider other people’s thoughts, feelings, and experiences.”

Environmentalism “I will take care of the Earth and the life on it.”

Ethical Development “I will always focus on becoming a better person.”

Global Awareness “I will be a good neighbor to the people who share the Earth with me and help make the world a better place for everyone.”

Humility “I will be aware of my strengths and weaknesses, and appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of others.”

Peace and Social Justice “I will help people solve problems and handle disagreements in ways that are fair for everyone.”

Responsibility “I will be a good person—even when no one is looking—and own the consequences of my actions.”

Service and Participation “I will help my community in ways that let me get to know the people I’m helping.”

winnah winnah, chicken dinnah! I'd share the comments from an old FB post of mine, if I could easily find it. but I remember posing the question as to why the super religious were so threatened by do-gooders (like me!) who aren't driven by a holy book of any flavor. it wasn't pretty. but I'll ask the question again here - why are the super religious so threatened by people that don't need a book to tell them to help others and not to be an asshole? 

[Tennesseer]

This is the bill/act Obama signed.

Frank R. Wolf International Religious Freedom Act

The Frank R. Wolf International Religious Freedom Act (H.R. 1150, Pub. L.Tooltip Public Law (United States) 114–281 (text) (PDF)) "amends the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998 (IRFA) to state in the congressional findings that the freedom of thought and religion is understood to protect theistic and nontheistic beliefs as well as the right not to profess or practice any religion". The bill was named after Frank Wolf, a Republican Congressman for Virginia and staunch supporter of religious freedom, who introduced the "Freedom from Religious Persecution Act of 1997", which served as a catalyst for religious freedom legislation in the 1990s. The original International Religious Freedom Act of 1998 was introduced by Senator Don Nickles on March 26, 1998, and was passed by the Senate on October 8, 1998, then passed without conference by the House on October 10, 1998. IRFA was passed as an amendment in the nature of a substitute (in its entirety, including the title) to H.R. 2431, the Freedom from Religious Persecution Act of 1997, a bill which had been introduced by Frank Wolf and Arlen Specter in May of 1997, but which never passed the Senate.

While both religious and non-religious groups have signaled approval for the 2016 amendment,[1] it has received particular attention for specifically protecting nontheists and those who claim no religion at all.[2] The Frank Wolf Act does not materially change the 1998 IRFA legislation, which already contained the authority to enact the 2016 provisions, but it spells out certain provisions in greater detail and specificity.

Rest of article here: Frank R. Wolf International Religious Freedom Act