Texas abortion case

[daisylu]

Dec 11, 2023 15:49:45 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Dec 11, 2023 15:46:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

This.  

Most antiabortion people I know don't want a woman to carry a fetus that will die, and may actively harm the woman.  

I don't get it. 

I know you said most, so this isn't a challenge so much as just pointing out that we actually have one here on this board. I'm actually shocked she hasn't chimed in here yet. 

She won't chime in because this goes against her "medically necessary as deemed by the doctor" argument that she throws out without defining what medically necessary means, referring back to doctors. The same doctors who are afraid to terminate pregnancies for fear of legal retaliation or JAIL.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 11, 2023 15:55:23 GMT -5 busymom said:

Dec 11, 2023 15:22:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Well,she decided to leave Texas to have her abortion elsewhere, instead of waiting for the court to decide. Court can then punt decision because it will be moot, since she is no longer pregnant, and Texas can congratulate itself for preventing the abortion of a fetus with a terminal disease. Way to go Texas, just another example of compassionate conservatism.

     I don't blame her.  Why should she poison her body just so the state of Texas can make a point?  It's all about the politicians.  It doesn't matter to them if she is never able to carry a pregnancy again.    


  My DD has already informed her fiancé that if he gets a job offer in Texas that he's going without her.  There is no point in allowing Texas to think that others approve of their form of stupidity.  Not to mention outright cruelty.  I doubt if every single woman left that state that the men who live there would get it.  They're THAT thick.   

She absolutely is making the right decision. There is no benefit to here to remain pregnant. Her only option is to leave. She is in a position no one wants to be in. UNfortunately, too many Texans seem not to care

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 11, 2023 16:25:16 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Dec 11, 2023 15:49:45 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I know you said most, so this isn't a challenge so much as just pointing out that we actually have one here on this board. I'm actually shocked she hasn't chimed in here yet. 

She won't chime in because this goes against her "medically necessary as deemed by the doctor" argument that she throws out without defining what medically necessary means, referring back to doctors. The same doctors who are afraid to terminate pregnancies for fear of legal retaliation or JAIL.

Based on the Texas AGs behavior it seems like a reasonable fear.

She will just come up with why it is the doctor's fault, not the fault of a mean spirited republican government, poorly written statutes, and vindictive laws.

[moon/Laura]

Dec 11, 2023 15:22:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Well,she decided to leave Texas to have her abortion elsewhere, instead of waiting for the court to decide. Court can then punt decision because it will be moot, since she is no longer pregnant, and Texas can congratulate itself for preventing the abortion of a fetus with a terminal disease. Way to go Texas, just another example of compassionate conservatism.

I thought they could /would still charge her, and anyone else who assists?

[NastyWoman]

Dec 11, 2023 16:25:16 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Dec 11, 2023 15:49:45 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I know you said most, so this isn't a challenge so much as just pointing out that we actually have one here on this board. I'm actually shocked she hasn't chimed in here yet. 

She won't chime in because this goes against her "medically necessary as deemed by the doctor" argument that she throws out without defining what medically necessary means, referring back to doctors. The same doctors who are afraid to terminate pregnancies for fear of legal retaliation or JAIL.

Well that is the problem here: medically deemed necessary, at least in Texas, seems to mean necessary as determined by a doctor and as APPROVED by some political hack. Anyone who did not see this coming is hopelessly naive wrt Repub politics.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 11, 2023 16:54:12 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Dec 11, 2023 15:22:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Well,she decided to leave Texas to have her abortion elsewhere, instead of waiting for the court to decide. Court can then punt decision because it will be moot, since she is no longer pregnant, and Texas can congratulate itself for preventing the abortion of a fetus with a terminal disease. Way to go Texas, just another example of compassionate conservatism.

I thought they could /would still charge her, and anyone else who assists?

It will be interesting to see how far they will take it, won't it. If she flies, can someone sue the pilots and flight attendants under the law. How about anyone who drives her. If a physician gives her a referral, are they liable. This could be a test case for that ridiculous law that they passed. See how far the courts are willing to take it. We can then get a good look at what republicans want the country to look like.

I think she is incredibly brave to be doing this publically. Hopefully, this will expose how awful these laws are, or force the AG to show where he draws a line. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

[gacpa]

I am seeing reports at the CNN website and Yahoo that she is now going to leave Texas to receive care.  I wonder what Texas will do to her when she returns, this poor woman. 

[Opti]

Dec 11, 2023 15:46:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

Dec 10, 2023 12:34:40 GMT -5 pooks said:

I really feel for this woman, but I have to compartmentalize that and look at the politics of this and the politics don't seem to make any sense. 

I am a bit of a jumble, but I can't really make any sense out of it.  First this isn't even a base issue, no one seems to wants this.  Forcing the carrying of nonviable fetuses seems to be a fringe stance even on the right, like less than 10% of all people.  So what is the win here?  

Second I seem to recall that Tx is fighting a case right now and using the defense that the law is clear and doctors aren't performing legal abortions in emergency cases.  Blaming the doctors.  This escalation of this case to the TX SC would undermine that defense, because it validates the doctors' stance.  
 
BTW, I am a Dem, so I am trying to understand the other side, which right now seems self destructive to me. 

This.  

Most antiabortion people I know don't want a woman to carry a fetus that will die, and may actively harm the woman.  

I don't get it. 

Some do. (scgal plus Miss T who has been very silent since Roe v Wade was overturned) 

Zib, for example is very sensible on this topic.

[pulmonarymd]

Texas Supreme Court ruled against the women getting an abortion. Welcome to Afghanistan. The ruling is unconscionable, and lacking in any sort of compassion for an impossible situation. But hey, who could expect more f try on republicans

[Tennesseer]

In its opinion, released Monday night, the Texas Supreme Court acknowledged that Cox’s pregnancy "has been extremely complicated" and "parents would be devastated to learn of their unborn child’s trisomy 18 diagnosis." In its opinion, though, the judges wrote that "Some difficulties in pregnancy, however, even serious ones, do not pose the heightened risks to the mother the exception encompasses. The exception requires a doctor to decide whether Ms. Cox’s difficulties pose such risks. [Cox’s doctor] asked a court to pre-authorize the abortion yet she could not, or at least did not, attest to the court that Ms. Cox’s condition poses the risks the exception requires."

Texas Supreme Court rules against woman who sued for an emergency abortion

Fortunately, Cox has left texas to seek a safe and legal abortion in another state. Texas is one fucked up state.  Letting a baby die in the womb or die within a day or two of birth and in pain is not pro-life.

[djAdvocate]

yeah, so they lied about medical exceptions.

no surprise. but make sure everyone hears that. knows that. believes that.

[Opti]

Dec 11, 2023 19:36:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Texas Supreme Court ruled against the women getting an abortion. Welcome to Afghanistan. The ruling is unconscionable, and lacking in any sort of compassion for an impossible situation. But hey, who could expect more f try on republicans

Texaghanistan?

[chiver78]

merging threads. 

-chiver mod

[thyme4change]

I am pro choice - this abortion should have been allowed 1000%. I am worried about states that are outlawing all abortions and very worried about states that are wording the medical exemptions poorly (which is all of them).

But, I am super dooper freaked out by the idea that you can be arrested in one state for doing something legal in another state. That is very concerning. Restricting travel between states is so dystopian to me. How long until we aren’t allowed to leave the country ala Handmaid’s tale style. I get not letting someone into your country, but not letting someone out gives me the heeby-jeebys.

[hurley1980]

This pisses me off so much!  I would happily pay travel, house, and chaperone any woman who finds herself in this situation.  Does planned parenthood or any other organization have a place to connect and offer services to women in need of emergency reproductive health?  I'm in California, so I don't have to be worried about getting arrested....and since I will NEVER visit Texas again until they come to their senses, all I can say is try to come get me! 

Women are on their own in this (as well as pro choice men as allies), the government is not going to help us, so we have to help each other!

[Opti]

Dec 12, 2023 17:26:40 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

This pisses me off so much!  I would happily pay travel, house, and chaperone any woman who finds herself in this situation.  Does planned parenthood or any other organization have a place to connect and offer services to women in need of emergency reproductive health?  I'm in California, so I don't have to be worried about getting arrested....and since I will NEVER visit Texas again until they come to their senses, all I can say is try to come get me! 

Women are on their own in this (as well as pro choice men as allies), the government is not going to help us, so we have to help each other!

The government can help us, but it will not be quick in certain states. As much as Trump wants to take over, I am going to have faith that Rachel Maddow is right - something will happen and opinion will change quickly. 

Remember how quickly Mitt Romney lost a promising Presidential run because someone posted that video of the family dog on the vehicle roof? Eventually the fear will become too much and more and more people will be unwilling to be afraid of Trump and his one man marketing campaign. 

[Opti]

And people can PM me ideas for T-shirts including party neutral sayings for saving women's lives and families. We can market and protest our way to a better 2024 and 2025.

[hurley1980]

Dec 12, 2023 18:02:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

Dec 12, 2023 17:26:40 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

This pisses me off so much!  I would happily pay travel, house, and chaperone any woman who finds herself in this situation.  Does planned parenthood or any other organization have a place to connect and offer services to women in need of emergency reproductive health?  I'm in California, so I don't have to be worried about getting arrested....and since I will NEVER visit Texas again until they come to their senses, all I can say is try to come get me! 

Women are on their own in this (as well as pro choice men as allies), the government is not going to help us, so we have to help each other!

The government can help us, but it will not be quick in certain states. As much as Trump wants to take over, I am going to have faith that Rachel Maddow is right - something will happen and opinion will change quickly. 

Remember how quickly Mitt Romney lost a promising Presidential run because someone posted that video of the family dog on the vehicle roof? Eventually the fear will become too much and more and more people will be unwilling to be afraid of Trump and his one man marketing campaign. 

I might be a bit jaded right now.  I am watching The Handmaids Tale for the first time ever, and inner panicking! lol 

[Opti]

Dec 12, 2023 20:37:20 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Dec 12, 2023 18:02:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

The government can help us, but it will not be quick in certain states. As much as Trump wants to take over, I am going to have faith that Rachel Maddow is right - something will happen and opinion will change quickly. 

Remember how quickly Mitt Romney lost a promising Presidential run because someone posted that video of the family dog on the vehicle roof? Eventually the fear will become too much and more and more people will be unwilling to be afraid of Trump and his one man marketing campaign. 

I might be a bit jaded right now.  I am watching The Handmaids Tale for the first time ever, and inner panicking! lol 

I refuse to watch it because I want to affirm things will improve instead of we are going down the toilet. FWIW, In the Star Trek universe it was theorized that society moved forward based on huge riots and social unrest. That happened roughly now. 

This is why I prefer Star Trek over Star Wars. Star Wars is on the theory that nothing every really changes and we recycle heroes and villains from the same type of forces. Star Trek theorizes we can make the world and the universe(s) a better place if we only try and apply enough love.

[thyme4change]

Dec 12, 2023 18:12:03 GMT -5 Opti said:

And people can PM me ideas for T-shirts including party neutral sayings for saving women's lives and families. We can market and protest our way to a better 2024 and 2025.

I can’t imagine any statement on abortion will appear party neutral.

[Opti]

Dec 13, 2023 11:33:52 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Dec 12, 2023 18:12:03 GMT -5 Opti said:

And people can PM me ideas for T-shirts including party neutral sayings for saving women's lives and families. We can market and protest our way to a better 2024 and 2025.

I can’t imagine any statement on abortion will appear party neutral.

Not statement, tshirt. Heck some conservatives reappropriated My Body My Choice for mask wearing so I definitely think it can be done. There are way more registered GOPers than there are voters who support these abortion restrictions. Especially the absolutist, this mother must die ones.

No worries, I have enough conservatives in my area to test ideas on. 

[thyme4change]

How are tshirts with messages not statements?

I guess you could do ‘my body, my choice’ and show images of masks, vaccines, a pregnant lady and some form of birth control - maybe a misteopristone pill? Include a rainbow flag, a bible and a representation of gender affirmation/ trans - just to get all the issues in there. It is still a statement - it just represents attitudes of both parties. It would confuse a lot of people. I’m a little confused just typing it.

[thyme4change]

There is a rumor going around that Cox is a MAGA super conservative therefore she voted for this mess.

I am not going to withdraw sympathy out of spite, but I know others are. They should be looking at the potential upside - if she can rally her people to have them knock off this madness, maybe we can get somewhere.

Ann Coulter is slamming Texas for this. This is bad news for the GOP.

[Opti]

Dec 13, 2023 13:25:13 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

How are tshirts with messages not statements?

I guess you could do ‘my body, my choice’ and show images of masks, vaccines, a pregnant lady and some form of birth control - maybe a misteopristone pill? Include a rainbow flag, a bible and a representation of gender affirmation/ trans - just to get all the issues in there. It is still a statement - it just represents attitudes of both parties. It would confuse a lot of people. I’m a little confused just typing it.

Do you remember that in I think 2016, that it was discovered conservatives did yoga etc. Things that were considered "liberal"?


Despite GOP messaging it is rare for anyone to be binary or black and white on everything they believe. We win by finding common ground. We lose if we fall into the trap there are only two "sides" to anything.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 12, 2023 0:24:21 GMT -5 Opti said:

Dec 11, 2023 19:36:42 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Texas Supreme Court ruled against the women getting an abortion. Welcome to Afghanistan. The ruling is unconscionable, and lacking in any sort of compassion for an impossible situation. But hey, who could expect more f try on republicans

Texaghanistan?

The single star on the Texas flag is actually a review.

[Opti]

Extra credit points b4 calling it a night.

Jesus wept.


Statement?
Able to be interpreted more than one or two ways?

[tbop77]

Just to be clear, conservatives want an abortion right to be returned to the states but are working hard to prevent the issue to be decided by the people.  


First rule of the anti-abortion playbook: Don’t let the public vote on abortion.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/first-rule-of-the-anti-abortion-playbook-don-t-let-the-public-vote-on-abortion/ar-AA1lFGDk?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8a82bf5df93d426fb1e6be0a647e36ab&ei=12

Cox was very brave to speak out publicly.  Should be gut wrenching for anyone to see what they put her through.  Only one conclusion to draw from this:

To those who sympathize with Cox’s plight—being persecuted by state authorities for not wanting to carry a doomed pregnancy to term, in order to preserve her ability to grow her family—Texas must seem like a dystopian horror. But in the eyes of the conservative movement, it is a utopia they hope to extend to the entire country. If some families are destroyed to advance that cause, it is a price they are willing to pay.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-becomes-an-abortion-dystopia/ar-AA1lFLyI?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=85b5bc7253604ad4a8857a55cda0cf4b&ei=60

[Opti]

Dec 18, 2023 8:43:37 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Just to be clear, conservatives want an abortion right to be returned to the states but are working hard to prevent the issue to be decided by the people.  


First rule of the anti-abortion playbook: Don’t let the public vote on abortion.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/first-rule-of-the-anti-abortion-playbook-don-t-let-the-public-vote-on-abortion/ar-AA1lFGDk?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8a82bf5df93d426fb1e6be0a647e36ab&ei=12

Cox was very brave to speak out publicly.  Should be gut wrenching for anyone to see what they put her through.  Only one conclusion to draw from this:

To those who sympathize with Cox’s plight—being persecuted by state authorities for not wanting to carry a doomed pregnancy to term, in order to preserve her ability to grow her family—Texas must seem like a dystopian horror. But in the eyes of the conservative movement, it is a utopia they hope to extend to the entire country. If some families are destroyed to advance that cause, it is a price they are willing to pay.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-becomes-an-abortion-dystopia/ar-AA1lFLyI?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=85b5bc7253604ad4a8857a55cda0cf4b&ei=60

Correct. Its part of their doublespeak strategy.

[pulmonarymd]

You can’t trust people to know what is good for them

[Spellbound454]

 You can’t trust people to know what is good for them

Says every maniacal tin-pot dictator.