Blurring juvenile criminal faces??

[ripvanwinkle]

Last night I was watching the local news and they had some video of 3 young teens vandalizing a building and some cars. It was all caught on security video. The video was excellent. The security company called the police and they caught them red handed.

The video on the news had their faces blurred. Why do they do that? There was no doubt they did this stuff. Why are they trying to protect them? I would think public shaming would be perfect? And why do they not also say their names? Its not like they can deny it.

[Tennesseer]

Young teens. By law, if minors, their names and faces cannot be released to the general public

[daisylu]

Link?

But short answer is they are minors. They may have done some dumb shit, but no one was physically injured and showing their faces on tv will most likely result in the kids (or their family) being injured for some stupid BS. (read: vigilante justice)

Much like rape victims are not identified on the news or in courts. But I'm going guess you would like to have to that info released also.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 15, 2023 11:19:36 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Link?

But short answer is they are minors. They may have done some dumb shit, but no one was physically injured and showing their faces on tv will most likely result in the kids (or their family) being injured for some stupid BS. (read: vigilante justice)

Much like rape victims are not identified on the news or in courts. But I'm going guess you would like to have to that info released also.

We did ripvanwinkle's homework for him again. "Comfortably uninformed" he has said about himself.

[TheOtherMe]

They are minors and should not have their lives ruined by stupid stuff they did as teenagers.   Their names are also not usually released nor should they be.

If your daughter is raped do you want her name and photo released?  Think about it.  

Public shaming?  Are we going back to the days of people in shackles in the town square?

[ripvanwinkle]

Nov 15, 2023 11:57:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

They are minors and should not have their lives ruined by stupid stuff they did as teenagers.   Their names are also not usually released nor should they be.

If your daughter is raped do you want her name and photo released?  Think about it.  

Public shaming?  Are we going back to the days of people in shackles in the town square?

If they do stupid stuff they should suffer the shame for it. The scorn of their peers. If they knew their names would be released I think they might think twice about it. But I'll say the names of rape victims should not be released but the rapist should be. As to town square punishment, Singapore has a good idea on vandalism. In 1994 a American teen was caned for vandalism.

www.tampabay.com/archive/1994/06/21/u-s-teen-who-was-caned-is-released-from-singapore-prison/

[Tennesseer]

Nov 15, 2023 23:53:07 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Nov 15, 2023 11:57:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

They are minors and should not have their lives ruined by stupid stuff they did as teenagers.   Their names are also not usually released nor should they be.

If your daughter is raped do you want her name and photo released?  Think about it.  

Public shaming?  Are we going back to the days of people in shackles in the town square?

If they do stupid stuff they should suffer the shame for it. The scorn of their peers. If they knew their names would be released I think they might think twice about it. But I'll say the names of rape victims should not be released but the rapist should be. As to town square punishment, Singapore has a good idea on vandalism. In 1994 a American teen was caned for vandalism.

www.tampabay.com/archive/1994/06/21/u-s-teen-who-was-caned-is-released-from-singapore-prison/

Singapore is not the United States. Move to Singapore but make sure you agree with all their laws. You just might be unpleasantly surprised.


in the U.S., rapists names are released if they are adults. The names of rapists who are minors are not released.

If you don't like the laws try and change the laws. But you will fail.

[billisonboard]

Nov 15, 2023 23:53:07 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Nov 15, 2023 11:57:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

They are minors and should not have their lives ruined by stupid stuff they did as teenagers.   Their names are also not usually released nor should they be.

If your daughter is raped do you want her name and photo released?  Think about it.  

Public shaming?  Are we going back to the days of people in shackles in the town square?

If they do stupid stuff they should suffer the shame for it. The scorn of their peers. If they knew their names would be released I think they might think twice about it. But I'll say the names of rape victims should not be released but the rapist should be. As to town square punishment, Singapore has a good idea on vandalism. In 1994 a American teen was caned for vandalism.

www.tampabay.com/archive/1994/06/21/u-s-teen-who-was-caned-is-released-from-singapore-prison/

Scientific research suggests otherwise: Teen Brain: Behavior, Problem Solving, and Decision Making

Adolescents are less likely to:

think before they act

pause to consider the consequences of their action

change their dangerous or inappropriate behaviors

[Tennesseer]

Nov 15, 2023 23:53:07 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Nov 15, 2023 11:57:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

They are minors and should not have their lives ruined by stupid stuff they did as teenagers.   Their names are also not usually released nor should they be.

If your daughter is raped do you want her name and photo released?  Think about it.  

Public shaming?  Are we going back to the days of people in shackles in the town square?

If they do stupid stuff they should suffer the shame for it. The scorn of their peers. If they knew their names would be released I think they might think twice about it. But I'll say the names of rape victims should not be released but the rapist should be. As to town square punishment, Singapore has a good idea on vandalism. In 1994 a American teen was caned for vandalism.

www.tampabay.com/archive/1994/06/21/u-s-teen-who-was-caned-is-released-from-singapore-prison/

Ahhh. You want Sharia law/punishment in the U.S. Like cutting off the hands of thieves for example in the public square. Physical punishment for all to see.

You are pathetic.

[TheOtherMe]

Yes, you are pathetic.  

Here in Iowa, two teenage boys murdered their Spanish teacher because they were going to flunk.  They were both tried as adults and their names and photos were released.  One got life and the other got 25 years.  

Murdering your teacher is not stupid teenage stuff.  

[laterbloomer]

Blurring their faces doesn't stop people that know them from recognizing them. I'm not sure what the logic is for hiding the identity of underage criminals.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 16, 2023 0:26:39 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 15, 2023 23:53:07 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

If they do stupid stuff they should suffer the shame for it. The scorn of their peers. If they knew their names would be released I think they might think twice about it. But I'll say the names of rape victims should not be released but the rapist should be. As to town square punishment, Singapore has a good idea on vandalism. In 1994 a American teen was caned for vandalism.

www.tampabay.com/archive/1994/06/21/u-s-teen-who-was-caned-is-released-from-singapore-prison/

Scientific research suggests otherwise: Teen Brain: Behavior, Problem Solving, and Decision Making

Adolescents are less likely to:

think before they act

pause to consider the consequences of their action

change their dangerous or inappropriate behaviors

I don't think I completely believe that. There were a few people I wanted to hurt as a teen and I controlled the impulse. And those teens are already considering the consequences or they wouldn't have been trying to not get caught.

[billisonboard]

Nov 16, 2023 9:11:58 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Yes, you are pathetic.  

Here in Iowa, two murdered their Spanish teacher because they were going to flunk.  They were both tried as adults and their names were released.  One got life and the other got 25 years.  

Murdering your teacher is not stupid teenage stuff.  

I think this is an excellent, if extreme, example of stupid teenage decision making. I mean, did murdering the teacher get them a passing grade? It isn't even a requirement for hs graduation unless a local one.

[billisonboard]

Nov 16, 2023 9:40:39 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 16, 2023 0:26:39 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Scientific research suggests otherwise: Teen Brain: Behavior, Problem Solving, and Decision Making

Adolescents are less likely to:

think before they act

pause to consider the consequences of their action

change their dangerous or inappropriate behaviors

I don't think I completely believe that. There were a few people I wanted to hurt as a teen and I controlled the impulse. And those teens are already considering the consequences or they wouldn't have been trying to not get caught.

That is the beauty of scientific research. It doesn't require an individual belief nor personal experience.

[billisonboard]

Nov 16, 2023 9:38:38 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Blurring their faces doesn't stop people that know them from recognizing them. I'm not sure what the logic is for hiding the identity of underage criminals.

This article might help you with the logic.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 16, 2023 9:56:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 16, 2023 9:40:39 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I don't think I completely believe that. There were a few people I wanted to hurt as a teen and I controlled the impulse. And those teens are already considering the consequences or they wouldn't have been trying to not get caught.

That is the beauty of scientific research. It doesn't require an individual belief nor personal experience.

There are countless examples of the conclusions of one study being contradicted by the conclusions of new studies. Especially when it comes to the social sciences. And the interpretation of data is always evolving. A good example, in Indigenous traditions the main deterrent for abhorrent behaviour is community peer pressure. The culprits are exposed and corrected verbally but also shown love and forgiveness. They are not imprisoned. Almost the exact opposite of what we do. And there are studies that suggest it is a very effective approach.

[billisonboard]

Nov 16, 2023 12:23:48 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 16, 2023 9:56:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

That is the beauty of scientific research. It doesn't require an individual belief nor personal experience.

There are countless examples of the conclusions of one study being contradicted by the conclusions of new studies. Especially when it comes to the social sciences. And the interpretation of data is always evolving. A good example, in Indigenous traditions the main deterrent for abhorrent behaviour is community peer pressure. The culprits are exposed and corrected verbally but also shown love and forgiveness. They are not imprisoned. Almost the exact opposite of what we do. And there are studies that suggest it is a very effective approach.

Great. Cite one.

[TheOtherMe]

I just looked up the state requirements for graduation and then the school districts requirements.  Foreign language is not required for graduation.

Somehow we need to get to the bottom of why kids are behaving this way.  

The boy who was sentenced yesterday said it was because of the drugs he and his buddy were doing.  That resulted in a woman losing her life.  The family says her husband died suddenly last summer of a heart attack and they feel it was because of his grief and the trial taking so long that he was reliving it all the time.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 16, 2023 13:35:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 16, 2023 12:23:48 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

There are countless examples of the conclusions of one study being contradicted by the conclusions of new studies. Especially when it comes to the social sciences. And the interpretation of data is always evolving. A good example, in Indigenous traditions the main deterrent for abhorrent behaviour is community peer pressure. The culprits are exposed and corrected verbally but also shown love and forgiveness. They are not imprisoned. Almost the exact opposite of what we do. And there are studies that suggest it is a very effective approach.

Great. Cite one.

www.nydailynews.com/2014/05/08/studies-are-always-contradicting-each-other-popping-up-by-the-day-and-bordering-on-craziness/

[laterbloomer]

Nov 16, 2023 13:35:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 16, 2023 12:23:48 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

There are countless examples of the conclusions of one study being contradicted by the conclusions of new studies. Especially when it comes to the social sciences. And the interpretation of data is always evolving. A good example, in Indigenous traditions the main deterrent for abhorrent behaviour is community peer pressure. The culprits are exposed and corrected verbally but also shown love and forgiveness. They are not imprisoned. Almost the exact opposite of what we do. And there are studies that suggest it is a very effective approach.

Great. Cite one.

pressbooks.online.ucf.edu/lumenpsychology/chapter/operant-conditioning/#:~:text=Remember%20that%20reinforcement%2C%20even%20when,to%20stop%20texting%20in%20class.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 16, 2023 13:35:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 16, 2023 12:23:48 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

There are countless examples of the conclusions of one study being contradicted by the conclusions of new studies. Especially when it comes to the social sciences. And the interpretation of data is always evolving. A good example, in Indigenous traditions the main deterrent for abhorrent behaviour is community peer pressure. The culprits are exposed and corrected verbally but also shown love and forgiveness. They are not imprisoned. Almost the exact opposite of what we do. And there are studies that suggest it is a very effective approach.

Great. Cite one.

www.ajic.mb.ca/volumel/chapter2.html#:~:text=The%20underlying%20philosophy%20in%20Aboriginal,members%20of%20the%20offender's%20clan.

[billisonboard]

Nov 16, 2023 15:34:14 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 16, 2023 13:35:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Great. Cite one.

www.ajic.mb.ca/volumel/chapter2.html#:~:text=The%20underlying%20philosophy%20in%20Aboriginal,members%20of%20the%20offender's%20clan.

As I read this, it seems the aboriginal justice system has no involvement of society as a whole but was limited to a very small group. I take this to support no public shaming.

[ripvanwinkle]

Nov 16, 2023 4:49:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 15, 2023 23:53:07 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

If they do stupid stuff they should suffer the shame for it. The scorn of their peers. If they knew their names would be released I think they might think twice about it. But I'll say the names of rape victims should not be released but the rapist should be. As to town square punishment, Singapore has a good idea on vandalism. In 1994 a American teen was caned for vandalism.

www.tampabay.com/archive/1994/06/21/u-s-teen-who-was-caned-is-released-from-singapore-prison/

Ahhh. You want Sharia law/punishment in the U.S. Like cutting off the hands of thieves for example in the public square. Physical punishment for all to see.

You are pathetic.

No, don't be silly. Of course not. Just shame them and get scorn from their peers and family. If enough teens hear they will be outed then hopefully it will sink in. If  punishment is on the table maybe they will think about their actions.

[ripvanwinkle]

Nov 16, 2023 15:22:45 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 16, 2023 13:35:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Great. Cite one.

www.nydailynews.com/2014/05/08/studies-are-always-contradicting-each-other-popping-up-by-the-day-and-bordering-on-craziness/

Cool, dueling studies. One goes left leaning, one goes right leaning.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 16, 2023 17:07:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 16, 2023 15:34:14 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

www.ajic.mb.ca/volumel/chapter2.html#:~:text=The%20underlying%20philosophy%20in%20Aboriginal,members%20of%20the%20offender's%20clan.

As I read this, it seems the aboriginal justice system has no involvement of society as a whole but was limited to a very small group. I take this to support no public shaming.

"Social control rested in kinship. Among native cultures the means of control was in the close contacts of their members. The sanctions of ridicule, avoidance and shame were effective means to check those deviants who fell into behavioural lapses. Internal, unofficial communication was the process.13"

[Tennesseer]

Nov 16, 2023 23:52:06 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Nov 16, 2023 4:49:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Ahhh. You want Sharia law/punishment in the U.S. Like cutting off the hands of thieves for example in the public square. Physical punishment for all to see.

You are pathetic.

No, don't be silly. Of course not. Just shame them and get scorn from their peers and family. If enough teens hear they will be outed then hopefully it will sink in. If  punishment is on the table maybe they will think about their actions.

You are a disgusting human being if you want public flogging of people. You seemed perfectly happy with the caning of the American teen in Singapore.

You wrote it and now you own it.

[billisonboard]

Nov 17, 2023 0:11:56 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 16, 2023 17:07:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As I read this, it seems the aboriginal justice system has no involvement of society as a whole but was limited to a very small group. I take this to support no public shaming.

"Social control rested in kinship. Among native cultures the means of control was in the close contacts of their members. The sanctions of ridicule, avoidance and shame were effective means to check those deviants who fell into behavioural lapses. Internal, unofficial communication was the process.13"

And the next sentence

These types of sanctions suited most misbehaviours within a small, tightly knit group of people who often were family members. 

[laterbloomer]

Nov 17, 2023 0:22:59 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 17, 2023 0:11:56 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

"Social control rested in kinship. Among native cultures the means of control was in the close contacts of their members. The sanctions of ridicule, avoidance and shame were effective means to check those deviants who fell into behavioural lapses. Internal, unofficial communication was the process.13"

And the next sentence

These types of sanctions suited most misbehaviours within a small, tightly knit group of people who often were family members. 

First, you don't know many indigenous families if you think they are small
And going back to what I originally disagreed with, you said teens aren't afraid of the possible consequences of their actions and I said I didn't believe that. And one example I used is that Indigenous people use shame as a consequence and found it effective.
I find it interesting that the public shaming is considered worse than probable incarceration, probation, community service or fines they would be subjected to.

[ripvanwinkle]

Nov 17, 2023 0:19:26 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 16, 2023 23:52:06 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

No, don't be silly. Of course not. Just shame them and get scorn from their peers and family. If enough teens hear they will be outed then hopefully it will sink in. If  punishment is on the table maybe they will think about their actions.

You are a disgusting human being if you want public flogging of people. You seemed perfectly happy with the caning of the American teen in Singapore.

You wrote it and now you own it.

Yes and if he would have stayed in Singapore I'll bet he wouldn't do it again. If it was done here, others would see it and think twice.

[billisonboard]

Nov 17, 2023 0:36:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 17, 2023 0:22:59 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And the next sentence

These types of sanctions suited most misbehaviours within a small, tightly knit group of people who often were family members. 

First, you don't know many indigenous families if you think they are small
And going back to what I originally disagreed with, you said teens aren't afraid of the possible consequences of their actions and I said I didn't believe that. And one example I used is that Indigenous people use shame as a consequence and found it effective.
I find it interesting that the public shaming is considered worse than probable incarceration, probation, community service or fines they would be subjected to.

I think small is a relative (pun intented) term. Media would reach large numbers with no kinship connection.

And I didn't say what you claim. I cited an article which reported scientific research suggests teens are less likely... . It isn't personal to me other than I do learn toward research rather than "I belief" support of opinion.