They’re going to screw around and shut it down

[happyhoix]

The government, I mean.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-infighting-stalls-spending-bills-in-us-house-as-shutdown-looms/ar-AA1h0rrX?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=64351fb8875b4458bde8b0602f0c488c&ei=7

Totally lunatic far right House members want Jack Smith unfunded and to strip back millions.

Where were these people when Trump ran up our debt more than any other president ever?

Once again, a government shut down will blow up in GOP faces.

[swamp]

Meh.  Let them do it. 

[wvugurl26]

Well a shut down creates a crap ton of work for those who have to deal with it. And it's unnecessary work that wouldn't be necessary if Congress did their job.

[Pink Cashmere]

Didn’t Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents stop going to work, causing chaos at airports during the last shutdown? I can imagine it’s frustrating to have to still go to work every day, not knowing when you will get paid.

[busymom]

My relative who is a government employee says if they shut down, gov't employees don't get paychecks.  Sh*t is going to hit the fan real fast if that happens. 

[Pink Cashmere]

Sept 20, 2023 14:41:56 GMT -5 busymom said:

My relative who is a government employee says if they shut down, gov't employees don't get paychecks.  Sh*t is going to hit the fan real fast if that happens. 

That is true, they don’t get paychecks. But they are still expected to work, as far as I understand.

That is one of the times being a federal employee vs a government employee matters IRT my job. When the federal government shuts down, it doesn’t affect me and my coworkers. But I still feel bad for the employees that are affected.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 20, 2023 14:02:00 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Didn’t Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents stop going to work, causing chaos at airports during the last shutdown? I can imagine it’s frustrating to have to still go to work every day, not knowing when you will get paid.

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968)


After PATCO disobeyed a federal court injunction ordering an end to the strike and return to work, a federal judge found union leaders including PATCO President Robert Poli to be in contempt of court, and the union was ordered to pay a $100,000 fine, and certain named members were ordered to pay a $1,000 fine[13] for each day its members were on strike. At the same time, Transportation Secretary Drew Lewis organized for replacements and started contingency plans. By prioritizing and cutting flights severely (about 7,000), and even adopting methods of air traffic management that PATCO had previously lobbied for, the government was initially able to have 50% of flights available.[5]

On August 5, following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, the Reagan administration fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order,[14][15] and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the difficult task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired. Under normal conditions, it took three years to train new controllers.[2][page needed] Until replacements could be trained, the vacant positions were temporarily filled with a mix of non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, military controllers, and controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. PATCO was decertified by the Federal Labor Relations Authority on October 22, 1981. The decision was appealed but to no avail,[16] and attempts to use the courts to reverse the firings proved fruitless.[17]

The FAA had initially claimed that staffing levels would be restored within two years; however, it took closer to 10 years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal.[2]

Some former striking controllers were allowed to reapply after 1986 and were rehired; they and their replacements are now represented by the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, which was certified on June 19, 1987, and had no connection with PATCO. The civil service ban on the remaining strike participants was lifted by President Bill Clinton on August 12, 1993.[18] Nevertheless, by 2006 only 850 PATCO strikers had been rehired by the FAA.[9]

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968)

[Pink Cashmere]

Sept 20, 2023 17:28:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 20, 2023 14:02:00 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Didn’t Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents stop going to work, causing chaos at airports during the last shutdown? I can imagine it’s frustrating to have to still go to work every day, not knowing when you will get paid.

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968)


After PATCO disobeyed a federal court injunction ordering an end to the strike and return to work, a federal judge found union leaders including PATCO President Robert Poli to be in contempt of court, and the union was ordered to pay a $100,000 fine, and certain named members were ordered to pay a $1,000 fine[13] for each day its members were on strike. At the same time, Transportation Secretary Drew Lewis organized for replacements and started contingency plans. By prioritizing and cutting flights severely (about 7,000), and even adopting methods of air traffic management that PATCO had previously lobbied for, the government was initially able to have 50% of flights available.[5]

On August 5, following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, the Reagan administration fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order,[14][15] and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the difficult task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired. Under normal conditions, it took three years to train new controllers.[2][page needed] Until replacements could be trained, the vacant positions were temporarily filled with a mix of non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, military controllers, and controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. PATCO was decertified by the Federal Labor Relations Authority on October 22, 1981. The decision was appealed but to no avail,[16] and attempts to use the courts to reverse the firings proved fruitless.[17]

The FAA had initially claimed that staffing levels would be restored within two years; however, it took closer to 10 years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal.[2]

Some former striking controllers were allowed to reapply after 1986 and were rehired; they and their replacements are now represented by the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, which was certified on June 19, 1987, and had no connection with PATCO. The civil service ban on the remaining strike participants was lifted by President Bill Clinton on August 12, 1993.[18] Nevertheless, by 2006 only 850 PATCO strikers had been rehired by the FAA.[9]

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968)

I wasn’t even going back that far. I might not be remembering correctly, and I’m too lazy to research it, but I seem to remember that during the last government shut down, it went on for over a month, and some Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents eventually just stopped going to work. 

And I don’t think they should ever be in a position where they have to do their jobs to keep us safe, while not knowing when they will actually get paid for working, because our “leaders” can’t get their shit together. 

I deleted everything I wrote between those 2 paragraphs lol.

[wvugurl26]

You will get backpay now. That has been changed. But it would suck to be working and not get paid on time. I'm pretty sure my DH wouldn't get paid during a shutdown but he has to work. I work and get paid but the whole thing is still just a hassle. Most of my group's funding is not within the budget process.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 20, 2023 18:06:13 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Sept 20, 2023 17:28:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968)


After PATCO disobeyed a federal court injunction ordering an end to the strike and return to work, a federal judge found union leaders including PATCO President Robert Poli to be in contempt of court, and the union was ordered to pay a $100,000 fine, and certain named members were ordered to pay a $1,000 fine[13] for each day its members were on strike. At the same time, Transportation Secretary Drew Lewis organized for replacements and started contingency plans. By prioritizing and cutting flights severely (about 7,000), and even adopting methods of air traffic management that PATCO had previously lobbied for, the government was initially able to have 50% of flights available.[5]

On August 5, following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, the Reagan administration fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order,[14][15] and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the difficult task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired. Under normal conditions, it took three years to train new controllers.[2][page needed] Until replacements could be trained, the vacant positions were temporarily filled with a mix of non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, military controllers, and controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. PATCO was decertified by the Federal Labor Relations Authority on October 22, 1981. The decision was appealed but to no avail,[16] and attempts to use the courts to reverse the firings proved fruitless.[17]

The FAA had initially claimed that staffing levels would be restored within two years; however, it took closer to 10 years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal.[2]

Some former striking controllers were allowed to reapply after 1986 and were rehired; they and their replacements are now represented by the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, which was certified on June 19, 1987, and had no connection with PATCO. The civil service ban on the remaining strike participants was lifted by President Bill Clinton on August 12, 1993.[18] Nevertheless, by 2006 only 850 PATCO strikers had been rehired by the FAA.[9]

Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (1968)

I wasn’t even going back that far. I might not be remembering correctly, and I’m too lazy to research it, but I seem to remember that during the last government shut down, it went on for over a month, and some Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents eventually just stopped going to work. 

And I don’t think they should ever be in a position where they have to do their jobs to keep us safe, while not knowing when they will actually get paid for working, because our “leaders” can’t get their shit together. 

I deleted everything I wrote between those 2 paragraphs lol.

The TSA and FAA workers wanted to strike in 2019. But because they are federal employees, the cannot strike. What they did in 2019 was call in sick.

[Pink Cashmere]

Sept 20, 2023 18:44:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 20, 2023 18:06:13 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I wasn’t even going back that far. I might not be remembering correctly, and I’m too lazy to research it, but I seem to remember that during the last government shut down, it went on for over a month, and some Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents eventually just stopped going to work. 

And I don’t think they should ever be in a position where they have to do their jobs to keep us safe, while not knowing when they will actually get paid for working, because our “leaders” can’t get their shit together. 

I deleted everything I wrote between those 2 paragraphs lol.

The TSA and FAA workers wanted to strike in 2019. But because they are federal employees, the cannot strike. What they did in 2019 was call in sick.

And I stand with them on that, if that’s what they had to do to make their voices heard. 

Even with private companies, being union myself, I do not cross picket lines or support companies when I know their employees are on strike in an attempt to get better pay and/or benefits. But that’s just me and what I do.

It’s not just because I am a federal employee that we cannot strike, it is part of the contracts negotiated between my union and my employer that we can’t strike, and in return, they can’t lay us off. But like I’ve said before, we are not affected when the federal government shuts down due to bickering among our “leaders”, but I do have empathy for the employees that are affected by it. 

[djAdvocate]

Sept 20, 2023 18:44:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 20, 2023 18:06:13 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I wasn’t even going back that far. I might not be remembering correctly, and I’m too lazy to research it, but I seem to remember that during the last government shut down, it went on for over a month, and some Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents eventually just stopped going to work. 

And I don’t think they should ever be in a position where they have to do their jobs to keep us safe, while not knowing when they will actually get paid for working, because our “leaders” can’t get their shit together. 

I deleted everything I wrote between those 2 paragraphs lol.

The TSA and FAA workers wanted to strike in 2019. But because they are federal employees, the cannot strike. What they did in 2019 was call in sick.

might pay to revue what happened under Reagan, when, i believe, they were fired and replaced.

[billisonboard]

Sept 21, 2023 8:16:56 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 20, 2023 18:44:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The TSA and FAA workers wanted to strike in 2019. But because they are federal employees, the cannot strike. What they did in 2019 was call in sick.

might pay to revue what happened under Reagan, when, i believe, they were fired and replaced.

Reply #6 in this very thread would be a place to do that.

[tbop77]

Adding to McCarthy’s complications is that former President Donald Trump appeared to come out in opposition to the new CR plan late last night. In a social media post, he pushed for Republicans to “defund all aspects of Crooked Joe Biden’s weaponized Government,” calling the Oct. 1 funding deadline the “last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me and other Patriots.”


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/major-doubts-cloud-the-house-gop-s-supposed-breakthrough/ar-AA1h3mSN?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1dfcb44c204e4a6199396845a786fefc&ei=6


Better do what is best for the master, Kevin!     

[djAdvocate]

so, again, he is going to make over 100M people suffer to save "him".
good to know.
he would have no problem calling out the troops on people like me.

[Tiny]

 Once again, a government shut down will blow up in GOP faces.

I don't think it will affect Republican voters. I'm guessing they are blaming the "crisis" on Democrats and Biden. I think it's all part of their plan to overthrow our Democracy and set up a more of an Authoritarian (or Dictatorship) government.

No one seems overly upset about Tuberville messing with the US Military. I assume this is some sort of maneuvering to insure if there is another coup attempt the Military will be more likely to side with those trying to overthrow the government.

[billisonboard]

Sept 21, 2023 10:38:58 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 Once again, a government shut down will blow up in GOP faces.

I don't think it will affect Republican voters. I'm guessing they are blaming the "crisis" on Democrats and Biden. I think it's all part of their plan to overthrow our Democracy and set up a more of an Authoritarian (or Dictatorship) government.

No one seems overly upset about Tuberville messing with the US Military. I assume this is some sort of maneuvering to insure if there is another coup attempt the Military will be more likely to side with those trying to overthrow the government.

Tuberville "messing with" the military is happening on two levels. His holds on promotions are impacting only the top levels of officers. It probably filters down a little lower mainly on a morale level than a practical level. He is attempting to change an abortion policy which would impact mainly lower level (younger) enlisted and somewhat lower level officers. There is a large group more in the middle who aren't impacted and likely not paying a lot of attention to the issue. Considering that Tuberville is more a part of the insurrectionist side of things, I don't see how angering the top leadership and the low level workers will get the military to join the revolt.

[Tennesseer]

Last night.

Senate confirms new Joint Chiefs chairman, bypassing Tuberville blockade

Washington — The Senate overwhelmingly confirmed Air Force Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr. as Joint Chiefs chairman Wednesday night, with a vote of 83 yeas to 11 nays, breaking through Sen. Tommy Tuberville's months-long blockade on military promotions and confirmations.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer set Senate floor votes for Brown and two others Wednesday, Gen. Randy A. George, to be chief of staff of the Army; and Gen. Eric Smith, to be commandant of the Marine Corps. George cleared a procedural vote 92 to 1 in the last vote Wednesday night.

Late Thursday morning, the Senate will vote on George and then proceed to a procedural vote on Smith, with a final vote on Smith slated for 1:45 p.m.

Tuberville has been blocking Pentagon promotions and confirmations over a Pentagon policy to reimburse out-of-state travel for service members seeking abortions.

So far, the Senate has overwhelmingly confirmed Brown, 83-11.

Rest of article here: Senate confirms new Joint Chiefs chairman, bypassing Tuberville blockade

[Tennesseer]

Senate confirms Army chief despite Tuberville holds

The Senate on Thursday confirmed Gen. Randy George to officially become Army chief of staff filling a Senate-confirmed vacancy that has been open due to Sen. Tommy Tuberville’s (R-Ala.) hold on more than 300 military promotions.

Senators confirmed George, 96-1. Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) was the lone senator to vote against him.

Rest of article here: Senate confirms Army chief despite Tuberville holds

[Icelandic Woman]

I don't pretend to know how all this works but how can this one asshole hold this up for so long?
If they had a way to tell him to eat shit and bypass him why didn't they do it sooner?
Don't get me wrong I am all for Repugnants doing ridiculous crazy shit that just makes them look bad and hopefully reduces their chances of getting re-elected.

[tallguy]

Sept 21, 2023 12:26:43 GMT -5 Icelandic Woman said:

I don't pretend to know how all this works but how can this one asshole hold this up for so long?
If they had a way to tell him to eat shit and bypass him why didn't they do it sooner?
Don't get me wrong I am all for Repugnants doing ridiculous crazy shit that just makes them look bad and hopefully reduces their chances of getting re-elected.

I think because it would take at least a day to individually vote and confirm each one if he or others wanted to force the issue.  Just confirming military promotions without any other Senate business going on would take a couple years to complete. 

[billisonboard]

Sept 21, 2023 12:34:06 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Sept 21, 2023 12:26:43 GMT -5 Icelandic Woman said:

I don't pretend to know how all this works but how can this one asshole hold this up for so long?
If they had a way to tell him to eat shit and bypass him why didn't they do it sooner?
Don't get me wrong I am all for Repugnants doing ridiculous crazy shit that just makes them look bad and hopefully reduces their chances of getting re-elected.

I think because it would take at least a day to individually vote and confirm each one if he or others wanted to force the issue.  Just confirming military promotions without any other Senate business going on would take a couple years to complete. 

This says months but basically floor time is the issue.

[pulmonarymd]

I think Shumer should just do it. Go 1 at a time. Keep them in session until they get through them all. Cancel recesses. I bet if he did that we would see them want to be done with it all of a sudden. Tuberville wants them to do that, do it.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 21, 2023 10:38:58 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 Once again, a government shut down will blow up in GOP faces.

I don't think it will affect Republican voters. I'm guessing they are blaming the "crisis" on Democrats and Biden. I think it's all part of their plan to overthrow our Democracy and set up a more of an Authoritarian (or Dictatorship) government.

No one seems overly upset about Tuberville messing with the US Military. I assume this is some sort of maneuvering to insure if there is another coup attempt the Military will be more likely to side with those trying to overthrow the government.

sure.  that makes sense.  

[billisonboard]

Sept 21, 2023 14:57:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 21, 2023 10:38:58 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I don't think it will affect Republican voters. I'm guessing they are blaming the "crisis" on Democrats and Biden. I think it's all part of their plan to overthrow our Democracy and set up a more of an Authoritarian (or Dictatorship) government.

No one seems overly upset about Tuberville messing with the US Military. I assume this is some sort of maneuvering to insure if there is another coup attempt the Military will be more likely to side with those trying to overthrow the government.

sure.  that makes sense.  

Not sure what the means in this post.

My post #16 explains my thinking on why it doesn't make sense. If there is an explanation of how it does make sense, I would appreciate hearing it so I could potentially alter my view of it.

[happyhoix]

I love this.

www.businessinsider.com/bill-for-halting-legislator-pay-mccarthy-shutdown-act-2023-9

Congress person sponsoring a bill that stops pay for congressmen if the government shuts down.

Perfect.

[Pink Cashmere]

Sept 21, 2023 19:22:23 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I love this.

www.businessinsider.com/bill-for-halting-legislator-pay-mccarthy-shutdown-act-2023-9

Congress person sponsoring a bill that stops pay for congressmen if the government shuts down.

Perfect.

I think that is fair. Put your money where your mouth is. If your ideals are that important to you, you should be willing to be in the trenches with the government employees who won’t get paid while you fight for what you believe is right. Even though you make more money than most of them anyway, I can still try to respect the gesture. 

[laterbloomer]

Sept 21, 2023 9:49:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

so, again, he is going to make over 100M people suffer to save "him".
good to know.
he would have no problem calling out the troops on people like me.

He HAS called out the troops on people like you. Remember tear gassing protestors for a photo op with a Bible?

[laterbloomer]

Sept 21, 2023 10:38:58 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 Once again, a government shut down will blow up in GOP faces.

I don't think it will affect Republican voters. I'm guessing they are blaming the "crisis" on Democrats and Biden. I think it's all part of their plan to overthrow our Democracy and set up a more of an Authoritarian (or Dictatorship) government.

No one seems overly upset about Tuberville messing with the US Military. I assume this is some sort of maneuvering to insure if there is another coup attempt the Military will be more likely to side with those trying to overthrow the government.

I was thinking more along the lines of the military not being properly prepared for conflict with a clear hierarchy in place.

[tbop77]

Poor Kevin!  The only way to keep the government open and keep his leadership position is to work with Democrats.  


But as they watched the chaos on the House floor this week, a bipartisan group started to push another idea: Republicans should band together with Democrats to pass the CR. One way to do this is with a so-called discharge petition that forces a vote.



That remains a distant but still live possibility.



But the even more intriguing role Democrats could play is a little further down the line. The GOP holdouts have repeatedly threatened McCarthy with a vote to remove him as Speaker. And this week Democrats started to think seriously about how they would vote if that comes to pass.



They could all just vote against McCarthy and help the rebels trigger a new speaker election. Nobody really knows which Republican would emerge from that process. Maybe McCarthy could eke out another victory the way he did in January. Maybe someone else pops up to replace him.



But Democrats could also lend their votes and save McCarthy from that fate. Of course, they would only do that at a very steep price.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/katherine-clark-names-the-democrats-price-to-save-kevin-mccarthy/ar-AA1h5Vzn?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=bdc8fc485deb476e94760b2257e1bef3&ei=6