They’re going to screw around and shut it down

[billisonboard]

Sept 21, 2023 23:17:37 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Sept 21, 2023 10:38:58 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I don't think it will affect Republican voters. I'm guessing they are blaming the "crisis" on Democrats and Biden. I think it's all part of their plan to overthrow our Democracy and set up a more of an Authoritarian (or Dictatorship) government.

No one seems overly upset about Tuberville messing with the US Military. I assume this is some sort of maneuvering to insure if there is another coup attempt the Military will be more likely to side with those trying to overthrow the government.

I was thinking more along the lines of the military not being properly prepared for conflict with a clear hierarchy in place.

That works better as a conspiracy theory.

[Tiny]

Sept 21, 2023 11:06:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 21, 2023 10:38:58 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I don't think it will affect Republican voters. I'm guessing they are blaming the "crisis" on Democrats and Biden. I think it's all part of their plan to overthrow our Democracy and set up a more of an Authoritarian (or Dictatorship) government.

No one seems overly upset about Tuberville messing with the US Military. I assume this is some sort of maneuvering to insure if there is another coup attempt the Military will be more likely to side with those trying to overthrow the government.

Tuberville "messing with" the military is happening on two levels. His holds on promotions are impacting only the top levels of officers. It probably filters down a little lower mainly on a morale level than a practical level. He is attempting to change an abortion policy which would impact mainly lower level (younger) enlisted and somewhat lower level officers. There is a large group more in the middle who aren't impacted and likely not paying a lot of attention to the issue. Considering that Tuberville is more a part of the insurrectionist side of things, I don't see how angering the top leadership and the low level workers will get the military to join the revolt.

I'm extrapolating that the abortion issue is really important to a lot of people in America and that these Americans do not want to work for an employer (via insurance or some other kind of benefit)  or work in a State that allows or facilitates access to abortion.   That would also apply to the Military.  Maybe there are a lot of people in the military who are willing to "sacrifice" now so that future military personnel have no access to abortion.   

Seriously, I don't think Tuberville is alone -  I don't think he could singlehandedly hold this up without help from his fellow Senate Republicans.    

Why are the Senate Republicans going along with this?   What's their Big Picture?  How does this help them achieve their goals?  

[billisonboard]

Sept 22, 2023 8:52:49 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Sept 21, 2023 11:06:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Tuberville "messing with" the military is happening on two levels. His holds on promotions are impacting only the top levels of officers. It probably filters down a little lower mainly on a morale level than a practical level. He is attempting to change an abortion policy which would impact mainly lower level (younger) enlisted and somewhat lower level officers. There is a large group more in the middle who aren't impacted and likely not paying a lot of attention to the issue. Considering that Tuberville is more a part of the insurrectionist side of things, I don't see how angering the top leadership and the low level workers will get the military to join the revolt.

I'm extrapolating that the abortion issue is really important to a lot of people in America and that these Americans do not want to work for an employer (via insurance or some other kind of benefit)  or work in a State that allows or facilitates access to abortion.   That would also apply to the Military.  Maybe there are a lot of people in the military who are willing to "sacrifice" now so that future military personnel have no access to abortion.   

Seriously, I don't think Tuberville is alone -  I don't think he could singlehandedly hold this up without help from his fellow Senate Republicans.    

Why are the Senate Republicans going along with this?   What's their Big Picture?  How does this help them achieve their goals?  

I can see abortion as part of a package of issues that might motivate but don't see this tactic as significant.

There are a lot of rules and traditions which empower individual Senators. The ability to place holds is one. Once such a power is undercut, it becomes easier to undercut it again. To protect their own power, Senators are very hesitant to stop others from using theirs.

[djAdvocate]

every time i see this thread title, i think of this song:

[Tennesseer]

Trump, who led the longest government shutdown in US history, calls on Republicans to let it happen again in 9 days so they can 'defund these political prosecutions against me'

Americans are nine days away from experiencing yet another government shutdown. Former President Donald Trump, who led a 35-day shutdown in 2019, is suggesting Republicans should let it happen again.

On Wednesday night, Trump took to his social media site Truth Social to offer advice to Republican lawmakers. If Congress doesn't reach an agreement on funding before September 30, the federal government will shut down — and with that deadline just nine days away, the GOP has yet to find a viable solution to keep the government funded.

Trump, who was responsible for the longest government shutdown in US history, urged Republicans to make the most of the "very important deadline" to keep the government funded.

"Republicans in Congress can and must defund all aspects of Crooked Joe Biden's weaponized Government that refuses to close the Border, and treats half the Country as Enemies of the State," Trump posted on his site. "This is also the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me and other Patriots. They failed on the debt limit, but they must not fail now. Use the power of the purse and defend the Country!"

Rest of article here: Trump, who led the longest government shutdown in US history, calls on Republicans to let it happen again in 9 days so they can 'defund these political prosecutions against me'

[happyhoix]

Sept 22, 2023 10:48:20 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Trump, who led the longest government shutdown in US history, calls on Republicans to let it happen again in 9 days so they can 'defund these political prosecutions against me'

Americans are nine days away from experiencing yet another government shutdown. Former President Donald Trump, who led a 35-day shutdown in 2019, is suggesting Republicans should let it happen again.

On Wednesday night, Trump took to his social media site Truth Social to offer advice to Republican lawmakers. If Congress doesn't reach an agreement on funding before September 30, the federal government will shut down — and with that deadline just nine days away, the GOP has yet to find a viable solution to keep the government funded.

Trump, who was responsible for the longest government shutdown in US history, urged Republicans to make the most of the "very important deadline" to keep the government funded.

"Republicans in Congress can and must defund all aspects of Crooked Joe Biden's weaponized Government that refuses to close the Border, and treats half the Country as Enemies of the State," Trump posted on his site. "This is also the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me and other Patriots. They failed on the debt limit, but they must not fail now. Use the power of the purse and defend the Country!"

Rest of article here: Trump, who led the longest government shutdown in US history, calls on Republicans to let it happen again in 9 days so they can 'defund these political prosecutions against me'

Yes, please shut down federal offices, shut the national parks, cost the economy 3 billion dollars (that’s what the 2019 shut down cost) because everyone really really wants you to not face the legal consequences of your actions.

Textbook example of a narcissist.

[weltz]

I don't think we've ever had a government shutdown.
It doesn't seem like a good solution to anything.

[laterbloomer]

Sept 22, 2023 16:22:09 GMT -5 weltz said:

I don't think we've ever had a government shutdown.
It doesn't seem like a good solution to anything.

Can that happen here?

[mollyc]

Sept 22, 2023 23:23:51 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Sept 22, 2023 16:22:09 GMT -5 weltz said:

I don't think we've ever had a government shutdown.
It doesn't seem like a good solution to anything.

Can that happen here?

I don’t think so but it’s been a long long time since high school so I might be misremembering or missed a rule change.

As I remember it, anything financial has to pass the house or result in vote of non-confidence that triggers an election. But now I might have to look it up

[mollyc]

I checked. If the budget doesn’t pass and the government falls, they can ask the Governor General for a special warrant to fund the day to day operations of government until a new government is formed and a budget passed.

[tbop77]

Raskin theorized that the conservative push for a shutdown is actually former President Trump’s idea.



“Donald Trump is calling the shots across the board,” Raskin said in an MSNBC interview Friday. “He thinks he can shut down his indictments and the works of the special counsel and the Department of Justice and the federal courts by getting Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene and three other members of the ‘MAGA caucus’ to derail the House and shut down the government of the United States.”

“He’s badly mistaken because the attorney general, Jack Smith, and the prosecutors are funded by a continuing, indefinite appropriation to the Department of Justice,” he continued.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/raskin-says-shutdown-would-end-political-careers-of-gaetz-greene/ar-AA1h7E2y?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=051c9d3d2d4a41dda6a406dd9493af82&ei=4

Poor Trump, wonder how he will take it when the government shuts down and he finds out?  

[happyhoix]

Sept 23, 2023 6:03:16 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Raskin theorized that the conservative push for a shutdown is actually former President Trump’s idea.



“Donald Trump is calling the shots across the board,” Raskin said in an MSNBC interview Friday. “He thinks he can shut down his indictments and the works of the special counsel and the Department of Justice and the federal courts by getting Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene and three other members of the ‘MAGA caucus’ to derail the House and shut down the government of the United States.”

“He’s badly mistaken because the attorney general, Jack Smith, and the prosecutors are funded by a continuing, indefinite appropriation to the Department of Justice,” he continued.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/raskin-says-shutdown-would-end-political-careers-of-gaetz-greene/ar-AA1h7E2y?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=051c9d3d2d4a41dda6a406dd9493af82&ei=4

Poor Trump, wonder how he will take it when the government shuts down and he finds out?  

Even if he could shut down the federal charges, it wouldn’t do a thing with the Georgia and the New York charges.  And for the one in New York, the DA is claiming the fraud is so evident (Trump falsely overestimated his net worth by 2.2 billion one year) that they don’t even need a trial to determine that - they may have a summary judgement and then just have a trial to determine how much money he owes the state. Trump is fucked. 

[giramomma]

Sept 22, 2023 8:52:49 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Sept 21, 2023 11:06:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Tuberville "messing with" the military is happening on two levels. His holds on promotions are impacting only the top levels of officers. It probably filters down a little lower mainly on a morale level than a practical level. He is attempting to change an abortion policy which would impact mainly lower level (younger) enlisted and somewhat lower level officers. There is a large group more in the middle who aren't impacted and likely not paying a lot of attention to the issue. Considering that Tuberville is more a part of the insurrectionist side of things, I don't see how angering the top leadership and the low level workers will get the military to join the revolt.

I'm extrapolating that the abortion issue is really important to a lot of people in America and that these Americans do not want to work for an employer (via insurance or some other kind of benefit)  or work in a State that allows or facilitates access to abortion.   That would also apply to the Military.  Maybe there are a lot of people in the military who are willing to "sacrifice" now so that future military personnel have no access to abortion.   

Seriously, I don't think Tuberville is alone -  I don't think he could singlehandedly hold this up without help from his fellow Senate Republicans.    

Why are the Senate Republicans going along with this?   What's their Big Picture?  How does this help them achieve their goals?  

I wonder how true that is though. That's what we've been told. I live in a state with an abortion law that dates back to 1849. Since Roe v Wade was overturned, our state legislature has pretty much done nothing to make sure that the law was modernized.

As it turns out, a judge in my county interpreted the law such that they said abortions could actually resume. We're now into Week 2 of abortions resuming in my city.

There's no special lawmaker sessions. There's no massive protests. There's no sound bites from the opposing side. Frankly, it's barely getting news coverage. One article on one of the major state news outlets? Jordan Love's performance, koats for kids, and random car accidents are what I'm seeing prioritized in news outlets.

When bargaining rights were taken away from state workers in 2011, people were far more upset. It dominated the news.

You would think that folks would care about abortion more than teachers getting the short end of the benefit stick.

There's a difference between actually caring about something and emotional button pushing that happens in dysfunction. I think people confuse the two.

[kadee79]

But the ones who really suffer from a government shut down are the folks at the lowest level...the cleaners, cooks, etc.  They don't get paid and they don't get back pay either.  So they are just up s**t creek without a paddle and without any money too.

[wvugurl26]

Most of that low level stuff is contracted out these days. So when there is a shut down they don't get paid and they get no back pay. Plus they are not paid well to begin with. If they were government employees they would get backpay. It is now guaranteed.

[tbop77]

The old saw is that faculty politics are so bitter because the stakes are so low. The same principle now seems to hold sway in the U.S. House of Representatives, which is on the verge of shutting down the U.S. government in order to achieve—nothing at all.


But the GOP malcontents promise to oust Speaker Kevin McCarthy if he passes something with Democrats. Bluto and the Faber College boys in “Animal House” couldn’t have come up with a more stupid and futile political gesture as this looming shutdown.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-government-shutdown-for-dummies/ar-AA1ht06y?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1262e7d374a74f148df61710d2a7503e&ei=18


Now isn't that the truth?

[laterbloomer]

Sept 30, 2023 10:17:19 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

The old saw is that faculty politics are so bitter because the stakes are so low. The same principle now seems to hold sway in the U.S. House of Representatives, which is on the verge of shutting down the U.S. government in order to achieve—nothing at all.


But the GOP malcontents promise to oust Speaker Kevin McCarthy if he passes something with Democrats. Bluto and the Faber College boys in “Animal House” couldn’t have come up with a more stupid and futile political gesture as this looming shutdown.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-government-shutdown-for-dummies/ar-AA1ht06y?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1262e7d374a74f148df61710d2a7503e&ei=18


Now isn't that the truth?

It would be kinda cool if he ended up working with all the moderate dems and pubs.

[thyme4change]

McCarthy is out there blaming Democrats for all of this. Is he really fooling the Republican voters?

My favorite conspiracy around the Tuberville military thing is that he (with the blessing of Republicans) is leaving many upper positions empty so Trump can be re-elected and stuff the upper military with MAGA loyalists. It seems far fetched, especially now that they are getting some of the promotions through. But I didn’t expect McConnell to be such a dick about the Supreme Court - so who knows.

[kadee79]

Here is a bit from one who will really suffer from a shut down...

Editor’s Note: Rosa Cruz, who works as part of a cleaning crew for a federal contractor in Washington DC, has cleaned offices at the Labor Department for 35 years. The views expressed in this commentary are her own. Read more opinion at CNN.


Every day, I wake up at 4 a.m. to make it to my job at the Department of Labor by 5:45 a.m., where I clean offices from 6 a.m. until 3 p.m. I start by cleaning the secretary’s office and work my way through the rest of the building along with a team of other cleaners.

I’ve worked year in and year out — except when the government shuts down. I was sidelined a few years ago during the last government shutdown and now, I can’t believe we may be back on the brink of another one. I was able to scrape by last time, but I’m not sure that I will be able to make it financially this time around.



It’s not as if one earns a lot of money as a cleaner. And when the federal government shuts down, people like me — who are not federal workers, but hired by a third party contractor to provide janitorial or cooking services or security — also find ourselves out of work.


What’s different for us contract service workers is, when the shutdown ends, most federal workers receive back pay for the entire time they were sidelined. But most contract service workers like me don’t get paid for the time that the government is closed. We simply have to figure out a way to scrape by for however long the shutdown lasts. And then we scramble for months afterwards to dig out of debt.

www.cnn.com/2023/09/30/opinions/government-shutdown-federal-contract-service-workers-cruz/index.html

[tbop77]

‘It is a surrender': Why McCarthy reversed with his survival uncertain


In the end, the 45-day funding patch that is on track to keep the government open passed with more Democratic than GOP votes, in a repeat of the spring debt vote that first inflamed McCarthy’s opponents.


www.politico.com/news/2023/09/30/kevin-mccarthy-government-shutdown-deal-00119290


Bye Kevin!  

[laterbloomer]

Sept 30, 2023 12:36:20 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

McCarthy is out there blaming Democrats for all of this. Is he really fooling the Republican voters?

My favorite conspiracy around the Tuberville military thing is that he (with the blessing of Republicans) is leaving many upper positions empty so Trump can be re-elected and stuff the upper military with MAGA loyalists. It seems far fetched, especially now that they are getting some of the promotions through. But I didn’t expect McConnell to be such a dick about the Supreme Court - so who knows.

That is one that I don't think is so far fetched.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 30, 2023 17:03:35 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

‘It is a surrender': Why McCarthy reversed with his survival uncertain


In the end, the 45-day funding patch that is on track to keep the government open passed with more Democratic than GOP votes, in a repeat of the spring debt vote that first inflamed McCarthy’s opponents.


www.politico.com/news/2023/09/30/kevin-mccarthy-government-shutdown-deal-00119290


Bye Kevin!  

I wouldn’t be too sure. He may have made a deal with the Democrats. And do you think there is anyone else who can get 218 votes. All the Freedom Caucus knows how to see is no.

[happyhoix]

Matt Gaetz wants to fire McCarthy. So furious that McCarthy did a deal with the dems to keep from shutting the country down, at least for 45 days, which was not what Trump wants.

[Opti]

Oct 1, 2023 14:56:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Matt Gaetz wants to fire McCarthy. So furious that McCarthy did a deal with the dems to keep from shutting the country down, at least for 45 days, which was not what Trump wants.

I want to fire Matt Gaetz and I don't care what Trump wants. Trump should be dealing with his own issues instead of thinking screwing the country over is going to save him from the indictments. 

[thyme4change]

So, question for us all…

If Gatz puts McCarthy to a recall vote (or whatever it is called), and McCarthy said the right things to the right people - would we be supportive of Dems keeping McCarthy as speaker as a way to send a message to the far right. If the Dems support McCarthy, their power would be significantly deflated.

Granted McCarthy is a snake, so it would be difficult to trust any promises he may make - but repeating his original election with a handful of crazies holding everyone hostage will just elevate those lunatics again.

Should I call my representative and tell him I would support it?

[thyme4change]

So, question for us all…

If Gatz puts McCarthy to a recall vote (or whatever it is called), and McCarthy said the right things to the right people - would we be supportive of Dems keeping McCarthy as speaker as a way to send a message to the far right. If the Dems support McCarthy, their power would be significantly deflated.

Granted McCarthy is a snake, so it would be difficult to trust any promises he may make - but repeating his original election with a handful of crazies holding everyone hostage will just elevate those lunatics again.

Should I call my representative and tell him I would support it?

[tallguy]

I'll say the same thing I did originally.  Better to find about eight thoughtful, sane Republicans (who are disgusted by the wingnut caucus) to support Hakeem Jeffries.  He would necessarily have to perform the job in a fair and bipartisan manner in the best interests of the American people because he could never survive a new vote if he didn't. 

[happyhoix]

According to Fox the other GOP members can’t stand Gaetz. There’s an ethics committee report pending about whether or not Gaetz did anything unethical with that whole under age girls thing. If the report says he did, they want to expel him.

www.foxnews.com/politics/house-gop-members-seek-expel-gaetz-renewed-threat-vacate-house-speaker-mccarthy

[thyme4change]

Oct 1, 2023 19:50:38 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I'll say the same thing I did originally.  Better to find about eight thoughtful, sane Republicans (who are disgusted by the wingnut caucus) to support Hakeem Jeffries.  He would necessarily have to perform the job in a fair and bipartisan manner in the best interests of the American people because he could never survive a new vote if he didn't. 

Has there ever been a speaker from the minority party?

I would love to see that happen. Find a handful of Republicans and start making some deals and compromises. And be prepared for those Republicans to get the boot by voters.