The border is not open

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2024 10:45:00 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 3, 2024 10:18:31 GMT -5 dondubble said:

From photos and videos I’ve seen it says ‘climb the walls’.

That is part of the problem. The wall is there to say use the front door but the rules are being ignored with little to no consequence of it. Look at it this way you go to a restaurant and instead of someone using the front door they open a window and climb in, what would happen to this person. Banned from the restaurant, arrested, both. Enter the country illegally (not using the door is illegal) not much is done and very little recourse. 

What need or circumstance lead the person to climb in a window?

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2024 11:55:55 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Feb 3, 2024 10:47:35 GMT -5 scgal said:

electrify the fence and razor wire 

You can fuck all the way off. Don't pass go, don't collect $200. Just fuck off. Nobody needs your racism here. Hopefully you eventually get banned for it.

It is a difference of opinion on how to deal with an issue.

[tallguy]

Feb 3, 2024 9:59:15 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 2, 2024 15:58:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

A+ for asking that question.

A: "what every other nation on Earth has had since the fall of the Berlin Wall"

the idea that open borders are an issue for the other 193 nations is ludicrous.
that is how it is done.
which means you need to manage your migrant population through enforcement.
not f(*king walls.

Respectfully you are totally wrong about walls. A wall is not saying keep out it, it says use the door. By using the door then you can successfully manage migrant population. 

“A wall from sea to shining sea is the most expensive and least effective way to do border security.” - Will Hurd

[andi9899]

Feb 3, 2024 12:03:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 3, 2024 11:55:55 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

You can fuck all the way off. Don't pass go, don't collect $200. Just fuck off. Nobody needs your racism here. Hopefully you eventually get banned for it.

It is a difference of opinion on how to deal with an issue.

No it wasn't. Perhaps the way she replied to don could be twisted that way. Legit killing Mexican people by electrocution is disgusting. The fact that she replied to the Mexican poster that way and to the non Mexican poster a different way is passive aggressive at best.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2024 14:10:53 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Feb 3, 2024 12:03:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

It is a difference of opinion on how to deal with an issue.

No it wasn't. Perhaps the way she replied to don could be twisted that way. Legit killing Mexican people by electrocution is disgusting. The fact that she replied to the Mexican poster that way and to the non Mexican poster a different way is passive aggressive at best.

Oh, you are Mexican.

EDIT: thinking i should say more. I will work to remember that and read your comments with that in mind.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 3, 2024 9:59:15 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 2, 2024 15:58:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

A+ for asking that question.

A: "what every other nation on Earth has had since the fall of the Berlin Wall"

the idea that open borders are an issue for the other 193 nations is ludicrous.
that is how it is done.
which means you need to manage your migrant population through enforcement.
not f(*king walls.

Respectfully you are totally wrong about walls. A wall is not saying keep out it, it says use the door. By using the door then you can successfully manage migrant population. 

have you done any traveling outside the US?  there are no walls scgal, except in China.  and they are a tourist site.  walls are

STUPID

they are utterly ineffective for preventing migration of anything other than deer.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 3, 2024 10:18:31 GMT -5 dondubble said:

Feb 3, 2024 9:59:15 GMT -5 scgal said:

Respectfully you are totally wrong about walls. A wall is not saying keep out it, it says use the door. By using the door then you can successfully manage migrant population. 

From photos and videos I’ve seen it says ‘climb the walls’.

i have never seen a wall i could not breach in 5 mins.

edit: i take that back.  prisons and Berlin are/were surrounded by such walls.
would anyone here want to live in a place like that?  i wouldn't.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 3, 2024 10:45:00 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 3, 2024 10:18:31 GMT -5 dondubble said:

From photos and videos I’ve seen it says ‘climb the walls’.

That is part of the problem. The wall is there to say use the front door but the rules are being ignored with little to no consequence of it. 

you are so close to being in the same place i am on this.

if you could just admit that walls are stupid.......

people that come here illegally and STAY do so because they know they can live under the radar.  why?  because they can work cash jobs, or use a fake ID to get a real one.

if we stopped that practice, it would pretty much eliminate "illegal" migration.  

however, i should point something out.  the domestic workforce is not growing.  so if you want a growing economy, you are going to have to explain to me how curtailing immigration is going to allow for that.

i know you have thought about it, scgal.  what is your solution?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 3, 2024 10:48:41 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 3, 2024 10:35:53 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As I sit here on my weekend day off from my secure paying job,  in my heated home, sipping coffee, contemplating what to pull from my stocked cabinets or frig for breakfast, I am thinking that the migrants on our Southern border should ...

Go to the entrance port and wait their turn. Your good life is in no way responsible for their bad situation.

good life?  no.  but we are, in fact, responsible for giving them a SURVIVABLE life.
at least if we plan on being part of the global community, we are.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 3, 2024 10:47:35 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 3, 2024 10:29:26 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I wish I could like this more than once.

electrify the fence and razor wire 

don't have much experience with electric fences, do you?
gloves and chaps work for getting over those.
every cowboy knows that.

cows are stupid.  people are not.

[djAdvocate]

here, let me summarize....

we could spend 100 billion on walls*, with 40 billion to maintain them OR

we could hire 2000 more border patrol officers, and create amnesty courts to quickly process and deport the 90% that are not eligible.

cost: $1B/year.

that's it. so, we CAN (yes) build the wall, monitor it (10000 people MINIMUM to do that, scgal , probably more like 100000 for three shifts and two borders), or we can spend 1% and engender a more humane and effective result.

do you see why liberals like me are driven crazy over this debate, yet?

[teen persuasion]

Feb 2, 2024 15:58:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 2, 2024 14:59:19 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

What is the definition of an open border?

A+ for asking that question.

A: "what every other nation on Earth has had since the fall of the Berlin Wall"

the idea that open borders are an issue for the other 193 nations is ludicrous.
that is how it is done.
which means you need to manage your migrant population through enforcement.
not f(*king walls.

Feb 3, 2024 10:35:53 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As I sit here on my weekend day off from my secure paying job,  in my heated home, sipping coffee, contemplating what to pull from my stocked cabinets or frig for breakfast, I am thinking that the migrants on our Southern border should ...

Every time I see the title of this thread, my mind objects: "what do you mean, the border is not open? Of course the border is open, the morning traffic report said all the bridges are moving commuters along nicely, no unusual delays!" I'm in a border area, but the northern border. We go back and forth freely all the time. NBD. I'm free to visit Canada, Canadians are free to visit us. Tons of international visitors come to see Niagara Falls, both sides. Mom goes to stay at a B&B in Niagara-on-the-Lake with friends every year. My godmother stays in PEI every summer. Another aunt owns a summer cottage in Ontario. For that matter, my brother is building a house in Mexico, so he goes back and forth over the southern border, too.

Just last night on the local news there was a story about the cost of diapers. Apparently they are noticeably cheaper on the Canadian side, even figuring in the bridge tolls, so people are making diaper runs across the bridge.


All this to say - the idea of walling off our country is completely foreign to me, living on the *open* Canadian border, watching Canadian TV alongside American TV. Other than Native Americans, we are all immigrants here, some longer ago, some more recent. My Irish ancestors were probably escaping the Famine. My dad's parents were each escaping eastern European WWI (or preconditions of the war). My DH's paternal grandfather was French Canadian. All ultimately became naturalized citizens. Why are we now denying others the same opportunity?

[djAdvocate]

the northern border is over 5500 miles long, and is virtually uncontrolled.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2024 15:27:04 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the northern border is over 5500 miles long, and is virtually uncontrolled.

I crossed it here, no border security in sight:

[happyhoix]

Feb 3, 2024 15:05:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

here, let me summarize....

we could spend 100 billion on walls*, with 40 billion to maintain them OR

we could hire 2000 more border patrol officers, and create amnesty courts to quickly process and deport the 90% that are not eligible.

cost: $1B/year.

that's it. so, we CAN (yes) build the wall, monitor it (10000 people MINIMUM to do that, scgal , probably more like 100000 for three shifts and two borders), or we can spend 1% and engender a more humane and effective result.

do you see why liberal like me are driven crazy over this debate, yet?

We could also create a guest worker program for people who only want to work here to be able to send money home to their families. Special guest worker cards that allow them to legally work all the labor intensive, low pay jobs Americans don’t want, like ag jobs, meat packing and hospitality. They can’t vote and their kids don’t get citizenship if they are born here. Employers that hire them are obligated to provide health insurance so they don’t end up uninsured and in our emergency rooms.

If the want to become citizens they can apply for it and stand in line like everyone else, unless they can qualify for asylum.

If they become legal guest workers, law enforcement can crack down on wage theft, sexual assault and shitty housing that is common to illegal workers right now.

[andi9899]

Feb 3, 2024 14:55:53 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 3, 2024 10:48:41 GMT -5 scgal said:

Go to the entrance port and wait their turn. Your good life is in no way responsible for their bad situation.

good life?  no.  but we are, in fact, responsible for giving them a SURVIVABLE life.
at least if we plan on being part of the global community, we are.

Exactly. Why can't we all care about human rights regardless of race, religion, etc? Because for some, there is so much hate inside them, that trumps anyone's rights that are different than them.

[djAdvocate]

i know that most don't want to admit it, but many of our ancestors came here to escape persecution and poverty. MANY. mine certainly did. and sure, in my case it predates the republic by 100 years, but it still stands. the only difference is, that for my family, there WAS NO BORDER PATROL. talk about OPEN BORDERS!!!!!

[djAdvocate]

adjunct to previous:

open borders didn't seem to hurt the US between 1600 and 1787.

[billisonboard]

FWIW, I am going to attempt to clarify what I meant when i posted:

As I sit here on my weekend day off from my secure paying job,  in my heated home, sipping coffee, contemplating what to pull from my stocked cabinets or frig for breakfast, I am thinking that the migrants on our Southern border should ...

Many of the human beings at our borders are struggling to get their most basic needs met. Policies and procedures that can make perfect sense to me from the place I am at won't work effectively in the place they are operating.

[ripvanwinkle]

Although I can't find the news article I read about 1 week ago, it said the crossings at Eagle Pass was down 70% since the razor wire was put up which shows Gov Abbott's effort is working. The illegal asylum seekers moved their crossing efforts somewhere else.

[azucena]

So they went around the wall? Amazing!

[Tennesseer]

Feb 3, 2024 17:09:39 GMT -5 azucena said:

So they went around the wall? Amazing!

[Tennesseer]

Feb 3, 2024 17:01:30 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Although I can't find the news article I read about 1 week ago, it said the crossings at Eagle Pass was down 70% since the razor wire was put up which shows Gov Abbott's effort is working. The illegal asylum seekers moved their crossing efforts somewhere else.

Ergo, the illegal asylum seekers are still crossing some where along the 1,254 mile Texas/Mexico border.

[billisonboard]

Feb 3, 2024 17:01:30 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Although I can't find the news article I read about 1 week ago, it said the crossings at Eagle Pass was down 70% since the razor wire was put up which shows Gov Abbott's effort is working. The illegal asylum seekers moved their crossing efforts somewhere else.

razor wire and how many national guard troops 24/7 for that small area? At what cost?

[pulmonarymd]

Feb 3, 2024 17:01:30 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Although I can't find the news article I read about 1 week ago, it said the crossings at Eagle Pass was down 70% since the razor wire was put up which shows Gov Abbott's effort is working. The illegal asylum seekers moved their crossing efforts somewhere else.

Yet republicans(Trump) arr against a bill that increases the number of border patrol agents and increases the number of judges so that cases can be adjudicated more quickly and people can be deported more quickly. Which approach do you think will be more effective? Are you against the border deal that the senate just negotiated?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 3, 2024 17:01:30 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Although I can't find the news article I read about 1 week ago, it said the crossings at Eagle Pass was down 70% since the razor wire was put up which shows Gov Abbott's effort is working. The illegal asylum seekers moved their crossing efforts somewhere else.

do me a favor.  read back through this thread.

you will find a post where i said "Arizona?" in response to your question about what happens if they closed the Texas border, how would they get in?

i will add the supplemental remark here: Texas is not an island.  this is WHY we need federal enforcement, rip.  without it, this is pointless.

since the time i made this comment i would add this:

Biden said he would close the border on DAY ONE if Congress gave him the authority.  Congress has the opportunity in it's hand right now, but your deranged leader is stopping it.  i hope he pays for it, dearly.  but given the complete lack of outrage on your part, i kinda doubt it.

the rest of us are giving you and the GOP blank stares right now.

[djAdvocate]

again- i will add the following:

if i am a migrant looking for a job in Texas, i simply go through in AZ and set up camp in El Paso. it is less than a day to walk there from AZ. in other words, all of these maddening and illegal gyrations by Abbot have only cut one day out of the influx. if that.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 3, 2024 18:08:25 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 3, 2024 17:01:30 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Although I can't find the news article I read about 1 week ago, it said the crossings at Eagle Pass was down 70% since the razor wire was put up which shows Gov Abbott's effort is working. The illegal asylum seekers moved their crossing efforts somewhere else.

do me a favor.  read back through this thread.

you will find a post where i said "Arizona?" in response to your question about what happens if they closed the Texas border, how would they get in?

i will add the supplemental remark here: Texas is not an island.  this is WHY we need federal enforcement, rip.  without it, this is pointless.

since the time i made this comment i would add this:

Biden said he would close the border on DAY ONE if Congress gave him the authority.  Congress has the opportunity in it's hand right now, but your deranged leader is stopping it.  i hope he pays for it, dearly.  but given the complete lack of outrage on your part, i kinda doubt it.

the rest of us are giving you and the GOP blank stares right now.

Rip's status on his profile page reads:

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke 1729 -1797

I await Rip's reply to you. Rip may help evil succeed based upon his answer.

[djAdvocate]

i want to take a moment to thank rip for posting this and other threads on this subject.

a year ago, i was mostly uninformed about this issue. i had feelings about it, but few facts. the facts i DID have flew in the face of the policies of Trump and Abbot, which is why i have objected strenuously, but only so far as their policies and ideas flew in the face of the facts.

now, i am much better informed. so, whereas i once thought that there was a concern, perhaps ill placed but well intended, on the part of the right on this issue, i have now come to believe that i was WRONG.

i now think that the right is being had. they are having their fears manipulated by racists and by the monied elite into reacting irrationally over this issue. there are many sensible solutions. the right has no interest in them, because they are better served by terrifying the electorate than fixing the problem(s).

[tallguy]

Feb 3, 2024 18:39:12 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i want to take a moment to thank rip for posting this and other threads on this subject.

a year ago, i was mostly uninformed about this issue. i had feelings about it, but few facts. the facts i DID have flew in the face of the policies of Trump and Abbot, which is why i have objected strenuously, but only so far as their policies and ideas flew in the face of the facts.

now, i am much better informed. so, whereas i once thought that there was a concern, perhaps ill placed but well intended, on the part of the right on this issue, i have now come to believe that i was WRONG.

i now think that the right is being had. they are having their fears manipulated by racists and by the monied elite into reacting irrationally over this issue. there are many sensible solutions. the right has no interest in them, because they are better served by terrifying the electorate than fixing the problem(s).

Exactly right.  They don't give a damn about the border, really.  They care about using the issue to keep themselves in power so they can do the things that they actually care about.  Tax cuts to enrich themselves and social policies to divide the country and to cement their own privilege and power.