The border is not open

[ripvanwinkle]

Dec 23, 2023 23:36:10 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 23, 2023 23:09:24 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Finally, someone has made a a correct assessment of this huge problem and due to your assessment I will change my views only, and only to those who present themselves to CBP for processing. I will, begrudgingly and with great reluctance, call them "asylum seekers" to satisfy others on this board. All the other thousands of gotaways that we do not know about I will continue to call "ILLEGALS". 

And answer me this? If the illegal gotaways are truly asylum seekers, then why do they evade CPB and police and hide? Are they gang members? Terrorists? Criminals? Drug smugglers? And who know what else! The mere fact they do not want to be caught should raise your hair. Well we don't know because we we didn't catch them and vett them !! I found this article interesting. It's from the House Committee on Homeland Security. Whether it's left or right leaning article, I don't care. It tells a grim fact.

 homeland.house.gov/2023/12/20/border-sector-chiefs-confirm-operational-impacts-of-border-chaos-increased-gotaways-closed-checkpoints-and-empowered-cartels/  

"Under President Biden and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) sources have confirmed over 1.7 million known gotaways at the Southwest border. Even worse, in a March 2023 field hearing, then-U.S. Border Patrol Chief Raul Ortiz testified that the number of total gotaways could be as much as 20 percent higher than the publicly reported numbers".

Can you tell me why you used a white supremacist website to spout your facts in reply #247?

Media Bias: The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) – Bias and Credibility

I didn't know this when I posted. But does it really matter? They want immigration reform. I want reform. You want reform. Reform from any group.

[ripvanwinkle]

Dec 24, 2023 2:27:35 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Dec 24, 2023 2:25:24 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

The membership has 18 Republicans and 15 Democrats.  I think thats a fair representation of voters.

And that site is the 18 Republicans, only.

Did you click on the About link far right of site? It has the members listed. Both Reps and Dems.

[tallguy]

Dec 24, 2023 2:36:08 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Dec 24, 2023 2:27:35 GMT -5 tallguy said:

And that site is the 18 Republicans, only.

Did you click on the About link far right of site? It has the members listed. Both Reps and Dems.

Did you look at the logo on the left, where it says Homeland Security Republicans?  Or you can scroll to the bottom, where it clarifies that it is the "Homeland Security Committee | Republican" website?  It does have a link to the minority (Democratic) website, but that one is strictly Republican.

[Opti]

Dec 24, 2023 2:30:43 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Dec 23, 2023 23:36:10 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Can you tell me why you used a white supremacist website to spout your facts in reply #247?

Media Bias: The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) – Bias and Credibility

I didn't know this when I posted. But does it really matter? They want immigration reform. I want reform. You want reform. Reform from any group.

Some people want to reform immigration to have a better path forward for well vetted immigrants. Some folks even want a path to citizen ship for those who have lived and worked her for years.

Rip, I am thinking you are more on the conservative track of everybody out than the above. Immigration laws are not static, they are probably tweaked in most administrations.

[Spellbound454]

re: the bolded - do you not have people overstaying visas? they've entered the country legally, but haven't followed through

on heading out on time. just curious

Not as much

We have thousands of young males crossing the channel from France in rubber boats, then they are housed in hotels across the country until their claims can be heard.
Its a big problem right across Europe.
They are being trafficked by people smugglers.

 In the whole of 2022, more than 89,000 people requested asylum. Small boat arrivals accounted for about 45% of those.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511


Its gone down a bit, and its not as much as some Countries but we cant facilitate this amount of people.

 asking as a moderator - was someone asking about login problems? I didn't see anything, so I'm also curious if someone has me blocked.

Yes there was a site issue for logging on.
We had to log in at proboards.com and then click on our user names
I tried to link it but it wouldn't let me.
Admin had it fixed within a couple of hours.
support.proboards.com/thread/675662/login-issues-fixed

[scgal]

Dec 23, 2023 18:21:54 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 23, 2023 10:27:51 GMT -5 scgal said:

If you do not have documentation you are breaking the law period. Now if you have documentation and cannot supply it at that moment you are are still illegal until you can prove otherwise. Kinda like our court system you can get arrested on suspicion of something. If we are to get a good control on this problem we need to get stricter. 

i reserve my most strenuous objection to the bolded portion.

our system of justice assumes you are innocent until proved guilty.  and that does NOT just apply to citizens, btw.  anyone who is "subject to" the laws of the US has the same rights (with the exception of terrorists, who SHOULD have the same rights, but do not.  i can explain that in a separate post, if you like).  so, our undocumented arrivals are assumed INNOCENT, not assumed GUILTY until proved otherwise.

and who would want it any other way?  even FLIRTING with the opposite is a horrendous position to take.  to deprive the least of us of justice is to deprive all of us of justice.

Trump is innocent until convicted in a federal court.  i would fight to the death for that right for ANYONE, including him.  wouldn't you?

The way I seee it is if you come thru a point of entry and start the process you are entering legally hence you are legal and from that point should have some sort of documentation stating your status. Jumping a fence, or wall or entering anywhere else but the point of entry you are illegal even if caught and claim asylum. You go back. If your visa expires you are illegal you go back. It is really not that hard of a concept. 

As far as the poster (not going to go back and look) who says the conservatives don't do anything about the issue can shove it up their arse. How many times have the left have full power of the branches and didn't get anything done on the issue. Both sides talk alot of shit but neither get anyting done about it. Trump wanted a great wall and was called racist why? Would it work maybe maybe not but it sure wouldn't have made it any worse. I'm going to go even farther here and this is where I will get blasted. The ones who were here illegally and had their children here they are all illegal and need to go back even if the kids only know America. Fuck the DACA program. 

[tbop77]

I'll step up, I know conservatives don't want to do anything to solve the problem that we created.  


Experts also say that at the heart of Central America’s poverty are vast inequality, deeply rooted injustices and the legacy of U.S. intervention. The U.S. has long thought of Central America as its backyard, said Leisy Abrego, a professor in Chicana/o and Central American studies at UCLA.



"There’s a long history of the United States and other foreign powers having a say in how things are done in the economies there that guarantee that level of inequality," Abrego said.

U.S. businesses with connections in Congress have set up shop in Central America, displacing farmers from their land and exploiting them for labor, Abrego said. At times when leaders in Central American countries have wanted agrarian reforms, U.S. businesses enlisted Washington to help trample those efforts, sometimes with the U.S. supporting regime changes, she said.



Most of the jobs that have become available to people are unstable, low-paying field jobs without benefits or workers’ rights protections, Menjívar said.



It’s "just pure, raw, human labor devoid of any rights, and that is not a good way to develop a good economic infrastructure," Menjívar said. "You can see how the roots of the current poverty, how these extreme conditions did not come out of the blue."


www.politifact.com/article/2021/jun/07/central-america-and-root-causes-immigration-us/

And just so you know, this was explained to Trump by one of the best and brightest he hired...but taking responsibility and actually working to solve the problem is not a conservative trait.  


Here’s how to slow illegal immigration from Central America, Trump official says

Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly told a group of Latin American leaders Friday that the United States’ insatiable demand for illegal drugs has fueled the violence in Central America that’s driving migrants to the United States. Kelly blamed the United States’ doing “almost nothing” about drug demand and he described the networks that serve that demand as a source of many of the region’s economic and security problems.

Read more at: www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article148935514.html#storylink=cpy

[Opti]

From tbop77's first link


The poorest of the poor in all three countries don’t always get a chance to get out. The people who are able to leave typically are those who have gathered enough money to pay a smuggler to get them to U.S. soil, or as close as possible. Commonly, it’s people who have been able to sell any land or other property they own, who have managed to save money sent over the years by relatives in the U.S., or who have borrowed enough money from family and friends, with a pledge to start repayment as soon as they land a job in the U.S.

Marroquín, who was scheduled to meet Harris on her trip, said Guatemalans know they will be in a country where people speak a different language and where they will likely need to work long hours of manual labor for little pay. But they hope they will earn enough to at least get some things they may never have in their own country: a TV, a stove, a Sunday off.


I thought it was important to post at least the above because posters may be too busy to look or not interested enough to read a long article. 

[chiver78]

not that the sentiment surprises me, moreso that she actually came out and said it. and oh so eloquently, I might add. 

The ones who were here illegally and had their children here they are all illegal and need to go back even if the kids only know America. Fuck the DACA program.

I'll be the first to come out and say it - go fuck yourself. how very Christian of you to kick out those who know only the same country that you do. 

[djAdvocate]

Dec 24, 2023 7:27:44 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 23, 2023 18:21:54 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i reserve my most strenuous objection to the bolded portion.

our system of justice assumes you are innocent until proved guilty.  and that does NOT just apply to citizens, btw.  anyone who is "subject to" the laws of the US has the same rights (with the exception of terrorists, who SHOULD have the same rights, but do not.  i can explain that in a separate post, if you like).  so, our undocumented arrivals are assumed INNOCENT, not assumed GUILTY until proved otherwise.

and who would want it any other way?  even FLIRTING with the opposite is a horrendous position to take.  to deprive the least of us of justice is to deprive all of us of justice.

Trump is innocent until convicted in a federal court.  i would fight to the death for that right for ANYONE, including him.  wouldn't you?

The way I seee it is if you come thru a point of entry and start the process you are entering legally hence you are legal and from that point should have some sort of documentation stating your status. Jumping a fence, or wall or entering anywhere else but the point of entry you are illegal even if caught and claim asylum. You go back. If your visa expires you are illegal you go back. It is really not that hard of a concept. 

i get that.  but i also get that people crossing the border are being smuggled in by people promising them freedom.  many don't know English, don't have internet access, and don't have any idea what the "best" way to cross the border is.  many more know that the standard border crossings don't have adequate asylum access, so their chances are better crossing through the desert.

my posts are to CHALLENGE the way you see it.  just as you are challenging mine.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 23, 2023 23:09:24 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Dec 23, 2023 15:07:43 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I am wondering if there are two different subjects being argued here, and people are focusing on their own instead of what the other side is saying?  In my view, there are two basic (or broad) categories of people arriving at the border.  One is those who present themselves to border officials hoping to either make an asylum claim or gain legal entry as an immigrant.  For those people, it is correct that their status is undetermined.  They are not "legal" because no determination has been made, but they are not "illegal" for the same reason.  The other category is those who make no attempt to follow legal requirements, do not present themselves to border officials, and instead try to avoid detection by law or border enforcement officers.  They are correctly described as illegal because everything they do is in contravention of the law.  I cannot see any other way to legitimately look at this.  People are not "illegal" at the point of showing up at a border crossing, merely by virtue of showing up at a border crossing.  It matters what they do when they get here.  If they are making their best attempt to follow both law and procedure, what more can they do, or what more can we expect?  To demonize them for trying to follow the law is insane.

Finally, someone has made a a correct assessment of this huge problem and due to your assessment I will change my views only, and only to those who present themselves to CBP for processing. 

i have made the argument that basically ALL migrants do that.  they KNOW they are going to get caught crossing, or can reasonably expect that.  you just have not been hearing the argument, and arguing that 100% of the crossers are "gotaways" (new term to me).

[tallguy]

Dec 24, 2023 7:27:44 GMT -5 scgal said:

As far as the poster (not going to go back and look) who says the conservatives don't do anything about the issue can shove it up their arse. How many times have the left have full power of the branches and didn't get anything done on the issue. Both sides talk alot of shit but neither get anyting done about it. Trump wanted a great wall and was called racist why? Would it work maybe maybe not but it sure wouldn't have made it any worse. I'm going to go even farther here and this is where I will get blasted. The ones who were here illegally and had their children here they are all illegal and need to go back even if the kids only know America. Fuck the DACA program. 

I so wish you were capable of actual thought rather than fevered overreaction.  Here's the rebuttal:

1.  No, Republicans do NOT want to solve the issue.  It is FAR more important to keep it alive as a campaign issue.  If they DID want to solve the issue, they would go after the EMPLOYERS who hire illegal aliens.  Cut off illegal immigration by cutting off the reason for them to come.  Chance of that happening?  Zero.

2.  No, Democrats do not succeed on the issue either.  They do try to handle it in a more humanitarian way, but do not or cannot increase resources enough to handle the overwhelming numbers of people who try to enter.

3a.  Trump's wall?  Donald Trump doesn't give a damn about a wall.  Three of his advisors got together to figure out an issue that would poll well for him.  They narrowed it down to "Build The Wall."  They intentionally made it a simple three-word slogan because they wanted to give him something simple to remember that he couldn't forget or f*** up.  That is fact. 

3b.  Re: the bolded.  I always go back to the words of a thoughtful, serious-minded conservative.  Republican Congressman Will Hurd of Texas, whose district included over 800 miles of the 2000-mile U.S.-Mexico border and who was the only Republican border Congressman.  His comments were, "A wall is a third-century solution to a 21st-century problem", and, "A wall from sea to shining sea is the most-expensive and least-effective way to do border security."  I am willing to believe him in that it first, would not have worked and second, that it would in fact make it worse, even if you did somehow manage to take the land away from its owners in order to build the wall in the first place.  If you are going to spend that kind of money on something, why not try to spend it on something that WILL work, and not on something that can be defeated by going to Home Depot and buying a ladder or a hacksaw?  How many pictures have we already seen of people climbing over or cutting through the new areas that the Trump administration built? 

4.  I am on record many times here saying that every single person here illegally should be deported.  There may not be anyone here more against illegal immigration than I am, but I am still not going to be wasteful or stupid about it.  Do what works, not what you can sell as "action" to an easily-duped public.     


ETA:  Here's a 2019 NYT article on Will Hurd.

Only One House Republican Represents the Borderland, and He Opposes a Wall 

[billisonboard]

Dec 24, 2023 11:03:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 23, 2023 23:09:24 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Finally, someone has made a a correct assessment of this huge problem and due to your assessment I will change my views only, and only to those who present themselves to CBP for processing. 

i have made the argument that basically ALL migrants do that.  they KNOW they are going to get caught crossing, or can reasonably expect that.  you just have not been hearing the argument, and arguing that 100% of the crossers are "gotaways" (new term to me).

There is a significant difference between not hearing and not agreeing.

[Opti]

Trump wanted a great wall and was called racist why?

This is easy. He wants to stop immigration of black and brown people but is okay with white Europeans. The latter is on point with his current wife, help he hires at his resorts instead of paying Americans a living wage, and he has a history of treating non-whites badly. Especially blacks. The fact that he calls people from Mexico and Central America the worst of the worst, rapists and criminals ... that does play into calling the man a racist.

In summary, it is deserved by his thoughts and actions. Many that happened prior to his 2015 campaign for President.

[djAdvocate]

there are some excellent and informative posts on this thread. i would give a shout out first to TG for post 281. that little gem about Will Hurd is great. i don't feel any need to add what i have already added a dozen times over the last 10 years on this board. i will simply say that i agree with 281 in it's entirety. particularly the part about going after employers.

i would also draw your attention to my post 262. before writing that, i had no idea how much immigration restrictions have TIGHTENTED in the last 40 years. i found it somewhat shocking, actually. it has happened so slowly that i didn't notice it. i would encourage you to consider WHY the proposal to cut off all immigration would have seemed wild and laughable in the context of 1981 politics, and seems completely plausible today, and JUST HOW FAR from the US and world "norm" that is.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 24, 2023 2:30:43 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Dec 23, 2023 23:36:10 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Can you tell me why you used a white supremacist website to spout your facts in reply #247?

Media Bias: The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) – Bias and Credibility

I didn't know this when I posted. But does it really matter? They want immigration reform. I want reform. You want reform. Reform from any group.

We posters are known for the news sources we post (as you did). You link yourself to white supremacists. No surprise there.

By the way, Jesus was not white. He was a person of color; the same color of the people you want to keep out of the United States.

Happy Holidays!

[djAdvocate]

....when I say Jesus, I’m not talking about some blonde-haired, blue-eyed, pale-skinned, buttermilk complexion cracker Christ. I’m talking about the Jesus of the Bible, with hair like lamb’s wool. I'm talking about that good hair, I'm talking about that nappy hair. That his body would be like beryl. Another scripture said his body would be like jasper. Another scripture said his body would be like fine brass, as though it had been burned in an oven. Jesus: the Lord, the Savior, the Master, the Redeemer

--Khalid Abdul Muhammad

[Tennesseer]

ripvanwinkle - it isn't all coming from south of the border and will definately start coming from north of the border.

Fentanyl super labs in Canada pose new threat for U.S. opioid epidemic

At a rural property an hour outside Vancouver in October, Canadian police found 2.5 million doses of fentanyl and 528 gallons of chemicals in a shipping container and a storage unit. Six months earlier, they raided a home in a cookie-cutter Vancouver subdivision packed with barrels of fentanyl-making chemicals, glassware and lab equipment.

Thousands of miles away outside Toronto, police in August found what is believed to be the largest fentanyl lab so far in Canada — hidden at a property 30 miles from the U.S. border crossing at Niagara Falls, N.Y.

U.S. authorities say they have little indication that Canadian-made fentanyl is being smuggled south in significant quantities. But at a time when record numbers of people are dying from overdoses in the United States, the spread of clandestine fentanyl labs in Canada has the potential to undermine U.S. enforcement efforts and worsen the opioid epidemic in both nations.

Investigators in Canada say the labs are producing fentanyl for domestic users and for export to Australia, New Zealand and, they assume, the United States.

“It’d be hard to believe it’s not occurring,” said Philip Heard, commander of the organized crime unit for police in Vancouver, a city hard-hit by fentanyl overdose deaths. “Most police leaders I’ve spoken to believe our production outstrips what our domestic demand is.”

The Canadian labs are a curveball for U.S. authorities whose efforts to combat fentanyl are focused on the southern border with Mexico. U.S. Customs and Border Protection has installed about $800 million worth of powerful scanning and detection equipment at land border crossings since 2019. Nearly all that technology has been deployed along the U.S. southern border, where CBP confiscated nearly 27,000 pounds of fentanyl during the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, the most ever.

Rest of article here: Fentanyl super labs in Canada pose new threat for U.S. opioid epidemic

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 24, 2023 11:22:36 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Dec 24, 2023 7:27:44 GMT -5 scgal said:

As far as the poster (not going to go back and look) who says the conservatives don't do anything about the issue can shove it up their arse. How many times have the left have full power of the branches and didn't get anything done on the issue. Both sides talk alot of shit but neither get anyting done about it. Trump wanted a great wall and was called racist why? Would it work maybe maybe not but it sure wouldn't have made it any worse. I'm going to go even farther here and this is where I will get blasted. The ones who were here illegally and had their children here they are all illegal and need to go back even if the kids only know America. Fuck the DACA program. 

I so wish you were capable of actual thought rather than fevered overreaction.  Here's the rebuttal:

1.  No, Republicans do NOT want to solve the issue.  It is FAR more important to keep it alive as a campaign issue.  If they DID want to solve the issue, they would go after the EMPLOYERS who hire illegal aliens.  Cut off illegal immigration by cutting off the reason for them to come.  Chance of that happening?  Zero.

2.  No, Democrats do not succeed on the issue either.  They do try to handle it in a more humanitarian way, but do not or cannot increase resources enough to handle the overwhelming numbers of people who try to enter.

3a.  Trump's wall?  Donald Trump doesn't give a damn about a wall.  Three of his advisors got together to figure out an issue that would poll well for him.  They narrowed it down to "Build The Wall."  They intentionally made it a simple three-word slogan because they wanted to give him something simple to remember that he couldn't forget or f*** up.  That is fact. 

3b.  Re: the bolded.  I always go back to the words of a thoughtful, serious-minded conservative.  Republican Congressman Will Hurd of Texas, whose district included over 800 miles of the 2000-mile U.S.-Mexico border and who was the only Republican border Congressman.  His comments were, "A wall is a third-century solution to a 21st-century problem", and, "A wall from sea to shining sea is the most-expensive and least-effective way to do border security."  I am willing to believe him in that it first, would not have worked and second, that it would in fact make it worse, even if you did somehow manage to take the land away from its owners in order to build the wall in the first place.  If you are going to spend that kind of money on something, why not try to spend it on something that WILL work, and not on something that can be defeated by going to Home Depot and buying a ladder or a hacksaw?  How many pictures have we already seen of people climbing over or cutting through the new areas that the Trump administration built? 

4.  I am on record many times here saying that every single person here illegally should be deported.  There may not be anyone here more against illegal immigration than I am, but I am still not going to be wasteful or stupid about it.  Do what works, not what you can sell as "action" to an easily-duped public.     


ETA:  Here's a 2019 NYT article on Will Hurd.

Only One House Republican Represents the Borderland, and He Opposes a Wall 

Well said. 

If Republicans wanted to solve the problem, they would do exactly the above. It would also increase job opportunities for Americans. They can even force unemployed Americans to work at those jobs/s. Unfortunately, food prices would go up. Can't have that, we have a right to cheap food.

[djAdvocate]

this illustrates another problem that NEITHER party is particularly addressing: corporatism.

fascism is the melding of corporatism and the state, and that is what we have right now. corporations, particularly large agribusiness and hospitality, have fought penalizing corporations for hiring undocumented people for decades. this is primarily a REPUBLICAN problem. but since Democrats are pro-immigration (not illegal, just immigration), they are ALSO opposed to going after corporations that hire undocumented individuals. and the result is that literally ZERO action has been taken on this, even though the means are right at our fingertips.

instead of BOTH parties agreeing that this is a problem, NEITHER do. because there is sugar on both sides feeding into the veins of congress.

[scgal]

Dec 24, 2023 13:23:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 24, 2023 11:22:36 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I so wish you were capable of actual thought rather than fevered overreaction.  Here's the rebuttal:

1.  No, Republicans do NOT want to solve the issue.  It is FAR more important to keep it alive as a campaign issue.  If they DID want to solve the issue, they would go after the EMPLOYERS who hire illegal aliens.  Cut off illegal immigration by cutting off the reason for them to come.  Chance of that happening?  Zero.

2.  No, Democrats do not succeed on the issue either.  They do try to handle it in a more humanitarian way, but do not or cannot increase resources enough to handle the overwhelming numbers of people who try to enter.

3a.  Trump's wall?  Donald Trump doesn't give a damn about a wall.  Three of his advisors got together to figure out an issue that would poll well for him.  They narrowed it down to "Build The Wall."  They intentionally made it a simple three-word slogan because they wanted to give him something simple to remember that he couldn't forget or f*** up.  That is fact. 

3b.  Re: the bolded.  I always go back to the words of a thoughtful, serious-minded conservative.  Republican Congressman Will Hurd of Texas, whose district included over 800 miles of the 2000-mile U.S.-Mexico border and who was the only Republican border Congressman.  His comments were, "A wall is a third-century solution to a 21st-century problem", and, "A wall from sea to shining sea is the most-expensive and least-effective way to do border security."  I am willing to believe him in that it first, would not have worked and second, that it would in fact make it worse, even if you did somehow manage to take the land away from its owners in order to build the wall in the first place.  If you are going to spend that kind of money on something, why not try to spend it on something that WILL work, and not on something that can be defeated by going to Home Depot and buying a ladder or a hacksaw?  How many pictures have we already seen of people climbing over or cutting through the new areas that the Trump administration built? 

4.  I am on record many times here saying that every single person here illegally should be deported.  There may not be anyone here more against illegal immigration than I am, but I am still not going to be wasteful or stupid about it.  Do what works, not what you can sell as "action" to an easily-duped public.     


ETA:  Here's a 2019 NYT article on Will Hurd.

Only One House Republican Represents the Borderland, and He Opposes a Wall 

Well said. 

If Republicans wanted to solve the problem, they would do exactly the above. It would also increase job opportunities for Americans. They can even force unemployed Americans to work at those jobs/s. Unfortunately, food prices would go up. Can't have that, we have a right to cheap food.

Democrats are the exact same they do not want to solve the problem either. They been saying shit for years. Why didn't they fix the problem huh? You know as well as I do neither party wants to solve the issue that is why there was so much pushback on Trump on this issue. It may have not worked but oh heaven be if it did. Shit someone was trying to do something about it. 

[scgal]

Dec 24, 2023 11:29:02 GMT -5 Opti said:

Trump wanted a great wall and was called racist why?

This is easy. He wants to stop immigration of black and brown people but is okay with white Europeans. The latter is on point with his current wife, help he hires at his resorts instead of paying Americans a living wage, and he has a history of treating non-whites badly. Especially blacks. The fact that he calls people from Mexico and Central America the worst of the worst, rapists and criminals ... that does play into calling the man a racist.

In summary, it is deserved by his thoughts and actions. Many that happened prior to his 2015 campaign for President.

He said not all people crossing is good people some are very bad honbres. Sorry that is not racist. People want to call it racist because mexicans are non white big fucking deal. 

[Opti]

Dec 26, 2023 6:06:02 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 24, 2023 11:29:02 GMT -5 Opti said:

Trump wanted a great wall and was called racist why?

This is easy. He wants to stop immigration of black and brown people but is okay with white Europeans. The latter is on point with his current wife, help he hires at his resorts instead of paying Americans a living wage, and he has a history of treating non-whites badly. Especially blacks. The fact that he calls people from Mexico and Central America the worst of the worst, rapists and criminals ... that does play into calling the man a racist.

In summary, it is deserved by his thoughts and actions. Many that happened prior to his 2015 campaign for President.

He said not all people crossing is good people some are very bad honbres. Sorry that is not racist. People want to call it racist because mexicans are non white big fucking deal. 

He's acted racist his entire life. He actively turned away black renters early in his career when others were getting away with it as well. He got buy in for the wall by emphasizing brown people bad. I guess you are in denial about that.

[Opti]

In crime infested Mexico, if you were a very bad person, why wouldn't you stay in a system you know and hook up with the cartels? Why come to the US at all?

Q for scgal.

[tbop77]

A bipartisan border security and immigration deal, which would unlock the stalled aid package for Ukraine blocked by House Republicans, has reportedly been the object of talks between the White House and key senators. In a joint statement issued by Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell before the Senate went into recess for the holidays, the two said that negotiations "continue to make headway."

But Johnson has been undermining the importance of such a bipartisan deal, saying that it's impossible to engage in honest talks with Democrats about the topic.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-brags-about-sabotaging-border-security-deal/ar-AA1lTiU8


President Biden knows how to work and compromise to get things done.  ANYTHING to do with the word bipartisan is a NO for Republicans and has been going on for at least 20+ years (think Mitch's statement when Obama was elected)  

[scgal]

Dec 26, 2023 7:19:00 GMT -5 Opti said:

In crime infested Mexico, if you were a very bad person, why wouldn't you stay in a system you know and hook up with the cartels? Why come to the US at all?

Q for scgal.

New land for growth. It is really bad there. I have to travel there often in industrial area the cartels own everything and the govt is just as crooked. Unless you have to deal with it you really just do not know

[djAdvocate]

Dec 26, 2023 6:03:11 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 24, 2023 13:23:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Well said. 

If Republicans wanted to solve the problem, they would do exactly the above. It would also increase job opportunities for Americans. They can even force unemployed Americans to work at those jobs/s. Unfortunately, food prices would go up. Can't have that, we have a right to cheap food.

Democrats are the exact same they do not want to solve the problem either. They been saying shit for years. Why didn't they fix the problem huh? You know as well as I do neither party wants to solve the issue that is why there was so much pushback on Trump on this issue. It may have not worked but oh heaven be if it did. Shit someone was trying to do something about it. 

you really think that was trying?
i don't.

if he were TRYING, he would cut off the incentive for them coming here.  there is a specific way of doing that.  did he TRY to do that?

no, he did not.

i agree with you about Democrats and Republicans.  but Trump is worse, in a way.  he KNOWS nothing will be done, so he simply gins up hatred and angst to get people to vote for him, then HE does nothing, too.  win-win-win for him.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 26, 2023 6:06:02 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 24, 2023 11:29:02 GMT -5 Opti said:

Trump wanted a great wall and was called racist why?

This is easy. He wants to stop immigration of black and brown people but is okay with white Europeans. The latter is on point with his current wife, help he hires at his resorts instead of paying Americans a living wage, and he has a history of treating non-whites badly. Especially blacks. The fact that he calls people from Mexico and Central America the worst of the worst, rapists and criminals ... that does play into calling the man a racist.

In summary, it is deserved by his thoughts and actions. Many that happened prior to his 2015 campaign for President.

He said not all people crossing is good people some are very bad honbres. Sorry that is not racist. People want to call it racist because mexicans are non white big fucking deal. 

he also said that Mexico is sending their worst, which is absolute bullshit.

technically Mexicans ARE white, so it is not racist, imo.

[billisonboard]

Dec 26, 2023 12:44:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 26, 2023 6:06:02 GMT -5 scgal said:

He said not all people crossing is good people some are very bad honbres. Sorry that is not racist. People want to call it racist because mexicans are non white big fucking deal. 

he also said that Mexico is sending their worst, which is absolute bullshit.

technically Mexicans ARE white, so it is not racist, imo.

Not sure what "technically" means in this post but,

The majority of Mexicans have varying degrees of Spanish and Native Mesoamerican ancestry and have been classified as "Mestizos". Mexicans

[ripvanwinkle]

A friend of mine in Houston sent me this on the NGOs helping the people get to the US border.

www.worldtribune.com/report-nothing-spontaneous-about-illegal-migration-tsunami-the-ngos-stealth-campaign/

It was a interesting read. I didn't know we were funding some of these groups to get people to our borders! I always wondered how they can travel 1000's of miles and look rested and clean.