Fair Pay For A Day’s Work

[giramomma]

Sept 12, 2023 12:20:11 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Sept 12, 2023 11:22:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

And I think you are dead wrong.   The cost of housing and college has risen faster than inflation and wages. 

So what younger people do in response to this is spend more on discretionary purchases?   I guess if they have given up on buying a house, maybe that's what you do.  I have heard a lot in the last 10 years about how millennials don't care about advancement or buying a house, they want experiences and travel.  Well, I guess you can't have it all.

For those attempting to make it work, I do feel bad about this.  But there are just so many that just want everything.  I  can't even remember the last time someone telling me they are going to a community college.  I look at the parking lot and most cars are way nicer than the crappy cars my parents drove.  I know people think that avoiding starbucks is not going to get you a house, but saving $100/month is about $10K more in home you can afford.  My 2 sister in laws just didn't want to buy a house, so they waited.  And that waiting, cost them a lot of money.

Perhaps that's a reflection of who you hang out with? Are you really solid middle class, or are you hanging out with folks that are upper middle class or wealthy?

We are solid middle class. My son went to trade school to be a mechanic. His first car that he bought (with gifted money) was a 4K truck that he can do most of the work on.

He has several friends that are not on a 4 year college path. Once he gets a mechanic's job (long story), he's planning to move out with them.

A couple of his friends are going to community college. One just parleyed a part time job to a full time one after HS graduation.

We send our kids to private 4k-8 school. It skews towards the upper middle class and wealthy folks. It's a personal failure to go to a community college. The goal is to make sure that your child is a top performer in 6-8th grade, so that your child can be in a position to apply to 9 colleges a few years. Because applying to just 3 isn't enough.

ETA: My sophomore wants to be a teacher, and she's got about 100K to work with for college. Since middle school, I have told her she needs to figure out a way to make that money cover all of her undergrad education. She won't be able to afford undegrad loans on a teacher's salary. Especially since there will be the expectation that she get a masters along the way.

She's also flirted with being a dentist. The outcome will still be the same. She needs to figure out how to leave undergrad with 0 debt.

Starting at the community college and transferring into a 4 year won't be an option for her. We are doing things like encouraging her to take AP courses. She also is a lot smarter than I realized, and we're going to look into dual enrollment courses. It's possible for her to take classes at our flagship university in town, and get college credit for that without us having to pay tuition.

It's tricky, though, because I don't want her to be burned out when she graduates HS.  She also still needs to play the long game.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Perhaps that's a reflection of who you hang out with? Are you really solid middle class, or are you hanging out with folks that are upper middle class or wealthy?





Lots of kids here are going to community college.  IWCC has transformed itself into a transfer college.  They have agreements with all the colleges/universities in Iowa that two years at IWCC equals the first two years at the 4 year institutions.  They also have an agreement with the University of Nebraska system since we're neighbors.

You can either get a scholarship depending on your grades for free CC or you can do "Diploma +1" as the program is called where you basically get your AA and your HS diploma at the exact same time through dual enrollment courses.

It's a really good program.  Gwen will be entering the program because it is a no brainer.  It will make the money FIL has set aside for her go further and she has her pick of colleges in the state.

She's toying with being a doctor so I have stressed that figuring out how to keep undergraduate loans down is a must.  We can't afford medical school for her.   Going the IWCC route then applying to a school they have an agreement with is her best bet of keeping costs down.

Council Bluffs is largely a middle class/working class town.   CC is not looked down on here as the "13th grade".  For some kids around here that is their best bet for getting into college period.

They also have the Tucker Center.  It's a trade school path instead of being funneled into the college system.  It's run through IWCC and leads into their programs so you graduate knowing a trade.

[thyme4change]

Do “kids today” spend more on discretionary things, or do they just spend it on different discretionary things? I have never seen any data that suggests people in their 20’s are spending a larger percentage of their income frivolously. I know the whole “Starbucks and avocado toast” trope, but I spent thousands on stereo equipment, tapes and CDs, video tapes and DVDs, long distance phone bills - I think I paid about the same for my first TV as I did for the last one I bought. My kids have their computers and their phones, and a few shared subscriptions, and they cover all of that.

But all of this feels unsubstantiated.

Can anyone point to research that tracks this stuff and prove that young people are actually more irresponsible with money today than in the 90’s or 80’s or whatever?

[nidena]

Sept 13, 2023 10:52:32 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Do “kids today” spend more on discretionary things, or do they just spend it on different discretionary things? I have never seen any data that suggests people in their 20’s are spending a larger percentage of their income frivolously. I know the whole “Starbucks and avocado toast” trope, but I spent thousands on stereo equipment, tapes and CDs, video tapes and DVDs, long distance phone bills - I think I paid about the same for my first TV as I did for the last one I bought. My kids have their computers and their phones, and a few shared subscriptions, and they cover all of that.

But all of this feels unsubstantiated.

Can anyone point to research that tracks this stuff and prove that young people are actually more irresponsible with money today than in the 90’s or 80’s or whatever?

Is this what you're looking for: How Do Americans Spend Their Money, By Generation?

[bean29]

Sept 13, 2023 10:52:32 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Do “kids today” spend more on discretionary things, or do they just spend it on different discretionary things? I have never seen any data that suggests people in their 20’s are spending a larger percentage of their income frivolously. I know the whole “Starbucks and avocado toast” trope, but I spent thousands on stereo equipment, tapes and CDs, video tapes and DVDs, long distance phone bills - I think I paid about the same for my first TV as I did for the last one I bought. My kids have their computers and their phones, and a few shared subscriptions, and they cover all of that.

But all of this feels unsubstantiated.

Can anyone point to research that tracks this stuff and prove that young people are actually more irresponsible with money today than in the 90’s or 80’s or whatever?

Our Friend's niece's and nephew's spend a lot more money on travel that we did when we were young.  They also spend more on travel than we do now.  I am pretty sure they spend more on travel than my own kids, but my DD travel's a good bit due to being an airline employee.  DD has a least one friend that even she says overspends on travel.  

When DH and I were starting out, we had used cars, and used furniture and used dishes etc.  My kids not only have new stuff, DD at least will redecorate on a whim.  She has been living at home, and pretty much has her cc. down to 0 according to our last conversation about it.  I offered to pay it off, she felt it was unnecessary given how close she is to 0.  I do think the kids are correct about buying new furniture given the resurgence of bed bugs and how hard it is to eradicate them.  DD needs a dresser.  She does not want to buy one b/c a job relocation is in her future.  I was looking for a used one on FB marketplace and then I realized it was just not a good idea.  She needs storage space in her room though.  

My DD buys a lot of clothing.  She shops a lot a Shein and the outlet malls though, so she is probably not overspending for her income level.  My DS has a lot of toys (like a new Harley and a  used mini bike).  His housing expense is very low, given that he bought a duplex.  The rental on the upper pretty much pays the mortgage payment.  

I agree though it is unsubstantiated.  

[Cookies Galore]

Sept 12, 2023 12:47:31 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Home ownership may not be for everyone, but everyone needs a roof over their head. In most areas rents are even higher than mortgages.

In the closest town near me, which is not that big, even a slum lord apartment is out of reach for a lot of people. Think a 1 bedroom 600 sq ft, for $1200 a month in a not very safe area. In a city where the hourly wage is $15 an hour. That would equal to half of a person's net income. How are people supposed to get ahead?

Through sheer luck of timing when we first bought our house and then refinanced, our total mortgage payment each month is $1,034. We can easily sell for $300,000+. Not too shabby for a house that cost $181,000 in 2016 (with us going over asking price). If I want to rent a house in my town, I better have $2000/month. Can't afford that? There's a 2-bedroom apartment for $1500.
I live in a wealthy county and we are supposed to be one of the last remaining affordable communities in it, and the lifers in this town are definitely blue collar/working class. It's no longer affordable. Plus, if any of these residents who are struggling to put a roof over their head went to college then they also get to deal with never-ending debt that keeps growing. I graduated college in 2004 and the highest rate I ever paid on my federal loans was 2.5%. Those days are long gone.

So yeah, if I had nothing going for me in life I'd also blow whatever little extra money I have on an experience and a small extravagance.

[Ryan]

Sept 13, 2023 6:24:59 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Sept 12, 2023 12:20:11 GMT -5 Ryan said:

So what younger people do in response to this is spend more on discretionary purchases?   I guess if they have given up on buying a house, maybe that's what you do.  I have heard a lot in the last 10 years about how millennials don't care about advancement or buying a house, they want experiences and travel.  Well, I guess you can't have it all.

For those attempting to make it work, I do feel bad about this.  But there are just so many that just want everything.  I  can't even remember the last time someone telling me they are going to a community college.  I look at the parking lot and most cars are way nicer than the crappy cars my parents drove.  I know people think that avoiding starbucks is not going to get you a house, but saving $100/month is about $10K more in home you can afford.  My 2 sister in laws just didn't want to buy a house, so they waited.  And that waiting, cost them a lot of money.

Perhaps that's a reflection of who you hang out with? Are you really solid middle class, or are you hanging out with folks that are upper middle class or wealthy?

We are solid middle class. My son went to trade school to be a mechanic. His first car that he bought (with gifted money) was a 4K truck that he can do most of the work on.

He has several friends that are not on a 4 year college path. Once he gets a mechanic's job (long story), he's planning to move out with them.

A couple of his friends are going to community college. One just parleyed a part time job to a full time one after HS graduation.

We send our kids to private 4k-8 school. It skews towards the upper middle class and wealthy folks. It's a personal failure to go to a community college. The goal is to make sure that your child is a top performer in 6-8th grade, so that your child can be in a position to apply to 9 colleges a few years. Because applying to just 3 isn't enough.

ETA: My sophomore wants to be a teacher, and she's got about 100K to work with for college. Since middle school, I have told her she needs to figure out a way to make that money cover all of her undergrad education. She won't be able to afford undegrad loans on a teacher's salary. Especially since there will be the expectation that she get a masters along the way.

She's also flirted with being a dentist. The outcome will still be the same. She needs to figure out how to leave undergrad with 0 debt.

Starting at the community college and transferring into a 4 year won't be an option for her. We are doing things like encouraging her to take AP courses. She also is a lot smarter than I realized, and we're going to look into dual enrollment courses. It's possible for her to take classes at our flagship university in town, and get college credit for that without us having to pay tuition.

It's tricky, though, because I don't want her to be burned out when she graduates HS.  She also still needs to play the long game.

Could be who I hang out with, they definitely are right in the middle of middle class and those are the people that I have these complaints about.  My sister in law is 26, married, and they were absolutely dismayed at the costs of homes.  She doesn't live a frugal life though, starbucks, lululemon, vacations, newer cars, trips to baseball games, etc.

I don't really blame her though because honestly that is just what you see people doing.  I grew up middle class and thought it was very normal to drive on vacations, not eat out, and generally just have an older/unmodeled house...I didn't think anything of it because that's what my friends had.  Today, my same friends all spend way more money than their parents.  

[giramomma]

Sept 13, 2023 11:15:21 GMT -5 nidena said:

Sept 13, 2023 10:52:32 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Do “kids today” spend more on discretionary things, or do they just spend it on different discretionary things? I have never seen any data that suggests people in their 20’s are spending a larger percentage of their income frivolously. I know the whole “Starbucks and avocado toast” trope, but I spent thousands on stereo equipment, tapes and CDs, video tapes and DVDs, long distance phone bills - I think I paid about the same for my first TV as I did for the last one I bought. My kids have their computers and their phones, and a few shared subscriptions, and they cover all of that.

But all of this feels unsubstantiated.

Can anyone point to research that tracks this stuff and prove that young people are actually more irresponsible with money today than in the 90’s or 80’s or whatever?

Is this what you're looking for: How Do Americans Spend Their Money, By Generation?

That's a fun thing to look at.

I'm GenX. I am not even sure we spend 83K a year. . We grossed 100K last year. Between FICA, our pension contribution, and heath insurance, we land at 84K. We also have other insurances taken from our paycheck, and we also do pay minimal federal taxes (I think our rate is like 2% or some such thing) and we have state taxes. Also doesn't account for 403b/457 contributions from our paycheck.

So, we're below average.

Which is fun, when you also look at NW calculators, which put us at between the top 5-10% of folks in the US.

[nidena]

Sept 13, 2023 14:28:10 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Sept 13, 2023 11:15:21 GMT -5 nidena said:

Is this what you're looking for: How Do Americans Spend Their Money, By Generation?

That's a fun thing to look at.

I'm GenX. I am not even sure we spend 83K a year. . We grossed 100K last year. Between FICA, our pension contribution, and heath insurance, we land at 84K. We also have other insurances taken from our paycheck, and we also do pay minimal federal taxes (I think our rate is like 2% or some such thing) and we have state taxes. Also doesn't account for 403b/457 contributions from our paycheck.

So, we're below average.

Which is fun, when you also look at NW calculators, which put us at between the top 5-10% of folks in the US.

I like that it's interactive and you can change it to % of income if you want to see that rather than $ spent.

[grumpyhermit]

Sept 13, 2023 10:52:32 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Do “kids today” spend more on discretionary things, or do they just spend it on different discretionary things? I have never seen any data that suggests people in their 20’s are spending a larger percentage of their income frivolously. I know the whole “Starbucks and avocado toast” trope, but I spent thousands on stereo equipment, tapes and CDs, video tapes and DVDs, long distance phone bills - I think I paid about the same for my first TV as I did for the last one I bought. My kids have their computers and their phones, and a few shared subscriptions, and they cover all of that.

But all of this feels unsubstantiated.

Can anyone point to research that tracks this stuff and prove that young people are actually more irresponsible with money today than in the 90’s or 80’s or whatever?

Speaking of Avocado Toast Guy, he made headlines recently with his call for the need for higher unemployment rates to put workers back in their place.

www.vice.com/en/article/jg5vj3/the-original-avocado-toast-millionaire-is-back-and-he-wants-pain-in-the-economy

[giramomma]

Sept 13, 2023 16:09:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

Sept 13, 2023 14:28:10 GMT -5 giramomma said:

That's a fun thing to look at.

I'm GenX. I am not even sure we spend 83K a year. . We grossed 100K last year. Between FICA, our pension contribution, and heath insurance, we land at 84K. We also have other insurances taken from our paycheck, and we also do pay minimal federal taxes (I think our rate is like 2% or some such thing) and we have state taxes. Also doesn't account for 403b/457 contributions from our paycheck.

So, we're below average.

Which is fun, when you also look at NW calculators, which put us at between the top 5-10% of folks in the US.

I like that it's interactive and you can change it to % of income if you want to see that rather than $ spent.

Thanks. I hadn't figured that out.

[giramomma]

So veering a little bit, but I thought of this thread.

The UAW workers are considering a strike: www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/business/auto-strike-uaw-mark-fields/index.html.

They want 40% salary increases over 4 years, with lots of other things.

I can't even imagine.

Here's a couple different articles on pay

work.chron.com/average-pay-auto-workers-union-member-24071.html

www.cbtnews.com/uaw-to-demand-46-pay-increase-from-big-three-car-manufacturers/

Curious to hear with other people think?

[tbop77]

Sept 14, 2023 6:39:50 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So veering a little bit, but I thought of this thread.

The UAW workers are considering a strike: www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/business/auto-strike-uaw-mark-fields/index.html.

They want 40% salary increases over 4 years, with lots of other things.

I can't even imagine.

Here's a couple different articles on pay

work.chron.com/average-pay-auto-workers-union-member-24071.html

www.cbtnews.com/uaw-to-demand-46-pay-increase-from-big-three-car-manufacturers/

Curious to hear with other people think?

I worked in the payroll department for a large corporation and my "ah-ha" moment came when bonuses were paid out annually to management.  The guys that worked in the shop got a big fat $0 from the success of the company.  They didn't have a union to review the books and fight for them.  The cold hard truth is all the employees could have a decent living if the top didn't take it all.  From your linked article:


“Big Three CEOs saw their pay spike 40% on average over the last four years…

[lurkyloo]

Baseline COL has gone up a lot in the past 40 years.  Everyone has a monthly bill for internet that didn’t exist before, cell phones (granted people don’t HAVE to have the latest iphone so definitely some excess there), streaming services or cable instead of bunny ears.  Pretty sure car prices have gone up faster than inflation-you can argue that they’re safer yadda yadda yadda but there’s enough unwanted “improvements” that I am absolutely dreading having to replace mine, and they’re a lot harder to fix without specialized equipment, by design.  Medical care is much better and we not only pay for it, the US freakin subsidizes the rest of the world  Across the board businesses are looking to increase profits and that comes in the form of improving offerings and quietly getting rid of cheaper options.  And also with encouraging payment plans etc that make it super easy to slide into living above your means.  The transition from pensions to 401k is a major economic drag on workers.  Then all the entry level housing is a. not as profitable for builders and more likely to deprioritized and b. easily snapped up by cash investors who turn around and rent it out at a profit.

I think the baseline standard of living has gone up quite a bit but not all of it is voluntary.     And much of what is voluntary is actively and manipulatively encouraged.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I don't know.  I think Ford and GM are hurting enough as it is.  I don't think this will help.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 14, 2023 6:39:50 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So veering a little bit, but I thought of this thread.

The UAW workers are considering a strike: www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/business/auto-strike-uaw-mark-fields/index.html.

They want 40% salary increases over 4 years, with lots of other things.

I can't even imagine.

Here's a couple different articles on pay

work.chron.com/average-pay-auto-workers-union-member-24071.html

www.cbtnews.com/uaw-to-demand-46-pay-increase-from-big-three-car-manufacturers/

Curious to hear with other people think?

Reading an NPR article about it that laid out how the CEOs salaries have increased over 40% in the same amount of time while the workeres haven't seen a dime I am all for it.  I am real tired of the narrative in America that CEOs are so vital to the functioning of the universe they deserve the pay they get along with teh golden parachutes they all seem to have when they royally fuck up.

I royally fuck up I can't even get $215/week in unemployment.  Yet they can get MILLIONS of dollars and stock options.  WTF?

They want their pay to reflect the workers haven't even so much as received a decent cost of living raise in years.

I changed a lot of my views on this during the pandemic.  We were put on a wage freeze and lectured about how it was for the good of the company, we all needed to come together to make sacrifices and keep the company afloat in hard times.  

Then we found out the managers/supervisors were still getting their 20% bonuses.  AND the company was making record profits something they crowed about in every single town hall meeting.

If we could have we probably would have gone on strike too.

The real killer was it was brought up that we're making record profits don't you think the workers should get some of that?  We were told it wasn't in the budget to give raises.  When it was point out people were quitting they agreed to give us all a 1% raise but not a penny more!

Fuck corporations anymore.  Let them hurt.   We haven't gotten to The Jungle yet but we are getting pretty close and it's long over due.

There is no reason they couldn't lower CEO salaries and spread that across the workers.  The CEOs will survive just fine.  Maybe they can't send themselves into space but it's hardly like they will be eating cat food in retirement.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 14, 2023 9:30:03 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Baseline COL has gone up a lot in the past 40 years.  Everyone has a monthly bill for internet that didn’t exist before, cell phones (granted people don’t HAVE to have the latest iphone so definitely some excess there), streaming services or cable instead of bunny ears.  Pretty sure car prices have gone up faster than inflation-you can argue that they’re safer yadda yadda yadda but there’s enough unwanted “improvements” that I am absolutely dreading having to replace mine, and they’re a lot harder to fix without specialized equipment, by design.  Medical care is much better and we not only pay for it, the US freakin subsidizes the rest of the world  Across the board businesses are looking to increase profits and that comes in the form of improving offerings and quietly getting rid of cheaper options.  And also with encouraging payment plans etc that make it super easy to slide into living above your means.  The transition from pensions to 401k is a major economic drag on workers.  Then all the entry level housing is a. not as profitable for builders and more likely to deprioritized and b. easily snapped up by cash investors who turn around and rent it out at a profit.

I think the baseline standard of living has gone up quite a bit but not all of it is voluntary.     And much of what is voluntary is actively and manipulatively encouraged.

Hey, I have bunny ears!  Get way more channels with it than we did 40 years ago too. 

[tbop77]

Sept 14, 2023 9:32:24 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Sept 14, 2023 6:39:50 GMT -5 giramomma said:

So veering a little bit, but I thought of this thread.

The UAW workers are considering a strike: www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/business/auto-strike-uaw-mark-fields/index.html.

They want 40% salary increases over 4 years, with lots of other things.

I can't even imagine.

Here's a couple different articles on pay

work.chron.com/average-pay-auto-workers-union-member-24071.html

www.cbtnews.com/uaw-to-demand-46-pay-increase-from-big-three-car-manufacturers/

Curious to hear with other people think?

Reading an NPR article about it that laid out how the CEOs salaries have increased over 40% in the same amount of time while the workeres haven't seen a dime I am all for it.  I am real tired of the narrative in America that CEOs are so vital to the functioning of the universe they deserve the pay they get along with teh golden parachutes they all seem to have when they royally fuck up.

I royally fuck up I can't even get $215/week in unemployment.  Yet they can get MILLIONS of dollars and stock options.  WTF?

They want their pay to reflect the workers haven't even so much as received a decent cost of living raise in years.

I changed a lot of my views on this during the pandemic.  We were put on a wage freeze and lectured about how it was for the good of the company, we all needed to come together to make sacrifices and keep the company afloat in hard times.  

Then we found out the managers/supervisors were still getting their 20% bonuses.  AND the company was making record profits something they crowed about in every single town hall meeting.

If we could have we probably would have gone on strike too.

The real killer was it was brought up that we're making record profits don't you think the workers should get some of that?  We were told it wasn't in the budget to give raises.  When it was point out people were quitting they agreed to give us all a 1% raise but not a penny more!

Fuck corporations anymore.  Let them hurt.   We haven't gotten to The Jungle yet but we are getting pretty close and it's long over due.

There is no reason they couldn't lower CEO salaries and spread that across the workers.  The CEOs will survive just fine.  Maybe they can't send themselves into space but it's hardly like they will be eating cat food in retirement.

I feel you.  Every quarter there would be a meeting with the shop letting them know how the company was barely hanging on, then that night we'd meet at an expensive steakhouse to be informed on the amount of bonus accrued for the year.  They were licking their chops the year of the tax cuts!  I struggled to keep from saying "what about trickle down"?  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 13, 2023 10:52:32 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Do “kids today” spend more on discretionary things, or do they just spend it on different discretionary things? I have never seen any data that suggests people in their 20’s are spending a larger percentage of their income frivolously. I know the whole “Starbucks and avocado toast” trope, but I spent thousands on stereo equipment, tapes and CDs, video tapes and DVDs, long distance phone bills - I think I paid about the same for my first TV as I did for the last one I bought. My kids have their computers and their phones, and a few shared subscriptions, and they cover all of that.

But all of this feels unsubstantiated.

Can anyone point to research that tracks this stuff and prove that young people are actually more irresponsible with money today than in the 90’s or 80’s or whatever?

All I know is what I see what my nieces spend money on.  The oldest ones is 6 years out from college.  The oldest spends $200+/month at the hair salon.  The middle one has probably spent upwards of $5000 on tattoos.  The youngest has a $400/mo DoorDash habit.  All of them have gotten on a plane and spent spring break someplace south.  All of them have acrylic nails.  

Last night, TD and I went out for dinner for our anniversary and dropped about $150.  This is not a weekly, or even monthly occurrence for us, but it is for my nieces.  

6 years out of college, I did not have that kind of expendable income.  In reality, neither do my nieces.  Both of the older nieces have nearly $100k in student loans.  The 2 youngest ones are still on their mom’s insurance, and she still pays for their prescriptions (the oldest has aged out).  All of them still are under their mom’s cell phone plan.  The middle one still has transport paid by dad, as does youngest (who is 22).  

When I left home and started out, mom occasionally bought me groceries.  If they visited, they took me out to dinner.  I certainly did not have expensive salon visits, or fake nails……or pedicures.  I would not have considered asking them to pay for prescriptions.  When I went out to eat, I wasn’t going to expensive restaurants (except when parents visited, which was twice the 5 years I lived in Boston).  

My electronics were a stereo I was given when I was 17 for my birthday, and a TV that I was given for my birthday the year I graduated from college.  I did not spend thousands on records or CDs.  I think I got a VCR. for Christmas after the prices of them dropped.  I don’t remember buying tapes, I rented them.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

My kid is an eater too.  Living right in the city he has acquired some expensive dining habits and uses instacart for groceries...although, that might actually be his best cost/time option.  He also spent $2500 on building a new gaming computer this summer (which is about a 1/3 of what he took home working full time all summer).  But, I can't really talk.  When I was his age I was buying horses and paying to board them. 

[seriousthistime]

Instacart is more expensive but you can save money by ordering just what you need and avoid impulse purchases you might make if you go into the store.  If the grocery store is convenient, online ordering and outdoor store pickup are probably the least expensive way to go. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 14, 2023 17:14:26 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Instacart is more expensive but you can save money by ordering just what you need and avoid impulse purchases you might make if you go into the store.  If the grocery store is convenient, online ordering and outdoor store pickup are probably the least expensive way to go. 

He doesn't have a car with him and there's no inexpensive grocery stores close by.  Hyvee is a 20 minute drive. I'm guessing if he took the bus it would be over 30 to get there, then having to shop and take the bus back with his groceries becomes a lot of wasted time.  A couple of his roommates have cars and ideally they would carpooled together on a weekend to stock their groceries, but apparently they don't coordinate like that. 

[seriousthistime]

Instacart is WAY less expensive than having a car just to buy groceries!  Sounds like he doesn't need a car for his everyday life.